Remotable HF/VHF/UHF all-mode mobiles - TS-B2000 vc IC-7000 vs...?

[N8YX]

I left this up for a few days without replying, hoping others would jump in. So...here goes.

You realize that you can buy a 5-7 inch video display for under $100? If you have your heart set on the Alpine, that's one thing, but you can acheive the larger display without dropping $800-1k.

Yes, I can get an external display cheap - but the question becomes one of "Where and how to install it?"

(I miss my full-sized Bronco with its acres of room in which to mount things. I don't miss its handling or the 13MPG it got.)

So...an in-dash unit is a necessity. The Alpine unit is no longer in the running, FWIW. Looks like a Kenwood DNX9980HD will be filling that role. One can hook up a Garmin or Kenwood ecoBoost OBD-II to USB interface to the head unit and get full instrumentation of the engine on demand. That alone sold me on the swap.

As an aside, the OEM Subaru tuner - even though it's a higher end Harman-Kardon unit - isn't anything to write home about. So...the 9980 will get me instrumentation, DVD/CD/USB MP3/MP4 playback, HD TV, AM/FM stereo, HD radio, Satellite radio, an onboard GPS, a backup camera, front-looking camera...and the ability to remote the IC-7000's display.

On to the radio and antennas.

Also, if you're going to do HF mobile "correctly", I'd forget about any type of tuner (internal or external) and spend the $300 on a screwdriver antenna.

Or build one...but mounting things on this car will always be an issue. Two NMO mounts through the trunk lid is the most feasible approach, though I am going to install a hitch mount for a bicycle carrier. More on that in a bit.

$1500 for a TS-B2000 plus $400 for an RC-2000 plus (?) for any required optional SSB filters

Which still won't make the RX in the 2000 even close to the 7000, if RX performance matters.

And this is the most telling statement of the whole thread...an actual comparison between the two.

That dual RX only applies if you want to monitor VHF/UHF and HF at the same time. It does not do dual HF RX.

Understood, and what I would typically do is to use the sub-RX for monitoring one of our area simplex 2M channels, or (in the case of severe summer WX) the 6M Skywarn backbone link. I am also going to mount a Uniden BC-996XT so I imagine that radio could be pressed into service as a monitor if needed.

Of course, the Icom-offered AH4 is a random-wire-only proposition.

Incorrect. You can use a random wire, 8-9 foot whip (tunes 40-6), or (in home use) ladder line. Why more people don't know this, surprises me.

Let me rephrase that statement: It isn't going to work with a coax-feed antenna - which is a must in my planned installation. However, there is a workaround: The AT-180. One of those will feed...something. I'll get to that in a second.

The 2000 has 2 HF ports, which makes having a seperate 6m antenna a breeze. However, to do the same with the 7000 takes a $60 duplexer. I know, I've done it. Additionally, since most VHF/UHF operations are done off of a dual-band antenna, you'll have to buy a $50 duplexer to combine the VHF & UHF connectors on the 2000 to a single cable, or run seperate antennas for 2m and 70cm. In my mind, that's a wash.

Let's also factor in the aforementioned scanner and a (gasp!) remote-able CB rig. No, I'm not going to "open up" the -7000. I have a CP-2500 control head and everything required to turn a CP-2000 into its ultra-rare mobile cousin - including a couple spare, junker CP-2000s. So...I'll end up with HF/VHF/UHF RX (996XT), 11M TRX ("2500") and HF/VHF/UHF TRX on two...maybe three antennas. Let's see how to make all of this work...
;)

An overly complicated mess, IMHO. You really only need a screwdriver antenna and a dual-band VHF/UHF antenna to make all this work.

Here's what I'm planning to do:

One NMO mount will accommodate a Diamond CR8900 (via adapter) or a 150/450/800MHz mobile whip. The 996XT and the CP-2500 will be fed through a duplexer (I've got a gazillion of them in the parts stash) to this particular antenna.

The other NMO mount will accommodate an Opek HVT-100 via adapter. It'll do 7/14/21/28/50/144/440MHz via resonators - 5 bands at a time, this including 144/440 - and is roughly the same size as the CR8900. I bought two of them and am going to modify the 15 and 20M resonators of the second to work on 12 and 17. This antenna will be coupled to the VHF/UHF port of the -7000 via another duplexer and to the HF/6M port via the AT-180.

Damage control...how to prevent the HF and VHF rigs from killing each other's receivers in such close proximity? Got that one figured out, too: A set of Dow-Key relays (on-hand) will be configured in an interlocking fashion, using a homebrewed version of an ARB-704 which will be tied to the CP-2500 and the IC-7000. When (for example) the Icom is placed into transmit the coaxial relays tied to the scanner and CB rig will switch their antenna ports into 50-ohm, 30W Daiwa dummy loads (also on-hand). The coils of the relays will be wired in such a manner that keying the mic of the "muted" radio will have no effect...the primary transceiver must return to RX mode before antenna handoff is allowed.

If it comes down to RX performance, there's no question, in my mind. IC-7000. The 2000 is bulky, even for a trunk installation. If properly place, the display on the 7000 is fairly easy to see without having to move your eyes very far. I do most of what I need to do on the mic controls anyway. The only time I reach for anything on the head when I'm driving, is to adjust the volume.

And these two bolded lines pretty much seal the deal.

Now...about that screwdriver. I'm going to install a hitch mount but whatever is tied into it must be easily removable, as the mount will be pressed into service carrying my bike rack. A QD mount for the drive power and coax feed with a removable connector is the only real option here. But where to mount the drive controller...hmm...

Look closely at the glove box at the center of this pic. The inside might be able to hold one out of sight, out of mind:

subaru-legacy-dash.jpg

I can't find a good online pic of that dash with the door open. Jim, what are the dimensions of your screwdriver's controller unit?

If I'm not using the bike carrier I can install an antenna mount and use either a screwdriver or my Hustler foldover setup then route its coax cable to the -180 tuner. If I'm using a bike carrier then the Opek/AT-180 combo gets pressed into HF service.

All of the radios, control mechanisms and a secondary battery with charge controller are going to be mounted on a piece of plate aluminum which will in turn be mounted in the front portion of the trunk. When I get another car, everything can be readily transferred - including the Kenwood nav unit. Only thing I'll have to do with the new auto is to mount antennas and run power from the engine compartment to the charge controller...

[KJ3N]

On to the radio and antennas.

Also, if you're going to do HF mobile "correctly", I'd forget about any type of tuner (internal or external) and spend the $300 on a screwdriver antenna.

Or build one...but mounting things on this car will always be an issue. Two NMO mounts through the trunk lid is the most feasible approach, though I am going to install a hitch mount for a bicycle carrier.

If I can fit an full-sized HS-1800 on a Toyota Corolla, you can find a way to do it on the GT. I need to redress the wiring one of these days so it looks nicer, but it works.

IMG_0686.jpg

That dual RX only applies if you want to monitor VHF/UHF and HF at the same time. It does not do dual HF RX.

Understood, and what I would typically do is to use the sub-RX for monitoring one of our area simplex 2M channels, or (in the case of severe summer WX) the 6M Skywarn backbone link. I am also going to mount a Uniden BC-996XT so I imagine that radio could be pressed into service as a monitor if needed.

Be absolutely sure you can monitor 6m and HF at the same time on the 2000. I'm fairly certain you can't. 2m or 70cm, and HF at the same time is probably OK.

Of course, the Icom-offered AH4 is a random-wire-only proposition.

Incorrect. You can use a random wire, 8-9 foot whip (tunes 40-6), or (in home use) ladder line. Why more people don't know this, surprises me.

Let me rephrase that statement: It isn't going to work with a coax-feed antenna - which is a must in my planned installation. However, there is a workaround: The AT-180. One of those will feed...something. I'll get to that in a second.

If you actually buy the AT-180, I'm going to each through the internet and beat the shit out of you. It's an over-priced POS. There are better options when it comes to remote tuners for coax-feed antennas. Never, never, NEVER buy the AT-180.

Let's also factor in the aforementioned scanner and a (gasp!) remote-able CB rig. No, I'm not going to "open up" the -7000. I have a CP-2500 control head and everything required to turn a CP-2000 into its ultra-rare mobile cousin - including a couple spare, junker CP-2000s. So...I'll end up with HF/VHF/UHF RX (996XT), 11M TRX ("2500") and HF/VHF/UHF TRX on two...maybe three antennas. Let's see how to make all of this work...
;)

Here's what I'm planning to do:

One NMO mount will accommodate a Diamond CR8900 (via adapter) or a 150/450/800MHz mobile whip. The 996XT and the CP-2500 will be fed through a duplexer (I've got a gazillion of them in the parts stash) to this particular antenna.

I hope you never plan to TX on 11m with that CR-8900. It's designed to work in the FM portion of 10m. It won't even tune to the Tech SSB portion of 10m, let alone 11m.

The other NMO mount will accommodate an Opek HVT-100 via adapter. It'll do 7/14/21/28/50/144/440MHz via resonators - 5 bands at a time, this including 144/440 - and is roughly the same size as the CR8900. I bought two of them and am going to modify the 15 and 20M resonators of the second to work on 12 and 17. This antenna will be coupled to the VHF/UHF port of the -7000 via another duplexer and to the HF/6M port via the AT-180.

I couldn't find an HVT-100. Are you perhaps thinking of the HVU-100? It looks similar to the Diamond HV7A and the Comet UHV-6. With the loading coils attached, these antennas are very top heavy. I've seen several of them snap from the strain of wind loading. It also won't take more than a couple of tree branch whacks to break it, either.

Damage control...how to prevent the HF and VHF rigs from killing each other's receivers in such close proximity? Got that one figured out, too: A set of Dow-Key relays (on-hand) will be configured in an interlocking fashion, using a homebrewed version of an ARB-704 which will be tied to the CP-2500 and the IC-7000. When (for example) the Icom is placed into transmit the coaxial relays tied to the scanner and CB rig will switch their antenna ports into 50-ohm, 30W Daiwa dummy loads (also on-hand). The coils of the relays will be wired in such a manner that keying the mic of the "muted" radio will have no effect...the primary transceiver must return to RX mode before antenna handoff is allowed.

Since I only run 2 antennas, this isn't an issue for me. Interesting design, however.

Now...about that screwdriver. I'm going to install a hitch mount but whatever is tied into it must be easily removable, as the mount will be pressed into service carrying my bike rack. A QD mount for the drive power and coax feed with a removable connector is the only real option here.

The mount for my screwdriver is permanent. I used the frame holes for the hitch mount (yes, there's actually one available for a Corolla) to attach 2-inch box channel aluminum and extend it out the rear of the vehicle. I had to use a couple of layers of box channel to clear the rear bumper.

IMG_0685.jpg

But where to mount the drive controller...hmm...

Look closely at the glove box at the center of this pic. The inside might be able to hold one out of sight, out of mind:

subaru-legacy-dash.jpg

I can't find a good online pic of that dash with the door open. Jim, what are the dimensions of your screwdriver's controller unit?

My controller unit is nothing more than an up/down toggle switch and a lamp to tell me when I've hit the travel limits. Tuning is easier than you think, especially on the lower bands. All you have to do is listen for the RX noise peak, and you're in the ball park. It usually takes me only a turn or 2 to get it on the money from there. Yes, I've done this while driving.

IMG_0682.jpg

If I'm not using the bike carrier I can install an antenna mount and use either a screwdriver or my Hustler foldover setup then route its coax cable to the -180 tuner. If I'm using a bike carrier then the Opek/AT-180 combo gets pressed into HF service.

If you're going to install a hitch mount (and installing a screwdriver antenna), look at some of the mounting options from Tarheel like the MT-3-FB or the MT3-OFB. For that matter, look at their M100A-HP antenna. Good stuff.

All of the radios, control mechanisms and a secondary battery with charge controller are going to be mounted on a piece of plate aluminum which will in turn be mounted in the front portion of the trunk. When I get another car, everything can be readily transferred - including the Kenwood nav unit. Only thing I'll have to do with the new auto is to mount antennas and run power from the engine compartment to the charge controller...

You're more into it than I am. All my installs are done with very little thought of moving from one vehicle to the next. The wife wouldn't be caught dead with any radio stuff in her car and I tend to keep my cars until they're ready to fall apart.

Obviously, you have different requirements than I do, but I advise you to seriously think about the screwdriver. While I'm not entirely familiar with the Tarheel line, if they're anything like High Sierra, the antenna is very easy to remove from the mount. My HS-1800 only requires me to loosen the hose clamp, pull the 12VDC quick disconnect, and lift it off the brass stud. I never have to remove a coax fitting.

The other think to contemplate is a smaller version of a screwdriver like the Tarheel LT-II, or the LT-HP. If memory serves, you can mount both of these on 3/8-24 mounts like the K400C-3/8. The K400 series are trunk lip mounts that can articulate to accommodate different trunk angles. Have a look at the Tarheel photo gallery for more ideas than you can think of.

[N8YX]

Again, waiting for others to chime in - so here goes.

If I can fit an full-sized HS-1800 on a Toyota Corolla, you can find a way to do it on the GT. I need to redress the wiring one of these days so it looks nicer, but it works.

IMG_0686.jpg

I'm going to utilize a hitch mount with removable ball arm, bike rack or antenna mount. Already have the vertical bracket, custom-made by one of my coworkers...so I just need to source the underpinnings and antenna itself.

Be absolutely sure you can monitor 6m and HF at the same time on the 2000. I'm fairly certain you can't. 2m or 70cm, and HF at the same time is probably OK.

I'm thinking you're right. Our local 10M hangout or various 20M frequencies and a 2M FM simplex frequency...possibly an area 6M repeater and a VHF simplex channel. This does sound like a job for the scanner plus a wide-band all-mode, the more I contemplate it.

If you actually buy the AT-180, I'm going to each through the internet and beat the shit out of you. It's an over-priced POS. There are better options when it comes to remote tuners for coax-feed antennas. Never, never, NEVER buy the AT-180.

School me: What else is available in the way of a tuner in its feature class?

I hope you never plan to TX on 11m with that CR-8900. It's designed to work in the FM portion of 10m. It won't even tune to the Tech SSB portion of 10m, let alone 11m.

Survey says...WRONG! At least, with my setup. I changed the HF whip length, as I have a stash of the things in the junk box. Even went so far as to make one for 11M use and 10M FM use - they're kept in the car's glove box, along with an Allen wrench that's used for changing them out.

1.2:1 SWR across 11 with the longer whip and a Royce 1-639 transceiver; change the whip and get 28.3-28.6 < 2:1 when running an HR-2600. Another change gets you resonant on the 29.600 segment. Or use a tuner...I've done both.

I couldn't find an HVT-100. Are you perhaps thinking of the HVU-100? It looks similar to the Diamond HV7A and the Comet UHV-6. With the loading coils attached, these antennas are very top heavy. I've seen several of them snap from the strain of wind loading. It also won't take more than a couple of tree branch whacks to break it, either.

Yes, my bad. I will probably run the setup with a minimal resonator complement and leave everything below 17M to the hitch-mounted antenna.

The mount for my screwdriver is permanent. I used the frame holes for the hitch mount (yes, there's actually one available for a Corolla) to attach 2-inch box channel aluminum and extend it out the rear of the vehicle. I had to use a couple of layers of box channel to clear the rear bumper.

IMG_0685.jpg

And I have to have a way to cart Le Bicycle around when 'DSG's Outback/Yakima rack combo isn't available. Thus, removability...

My controller unit is nothing more than an up/down toggle switch and a lamp to tell me when I've hit the travel limits. Tuning is easier than you think, especially on the lower bands. All you have to do is listen for the RX noise peak, and you're in the ball park. It usually takes me only a turn or 2 to get it on the money from there. Yes, I've done this while driving.

I think I'll build something similar in a project box - maybe with additional controller features such as audio source switching or remote power control. All should fit in that glove box space.

IMG_0682.jpg

If you're going to install a hitch mount (and installing a screwdriver antenna), look at some of the mounting options from Tarheel like the MT-3-FB or the MT3-OFB. For that matter, look at their M100A-HP antenna. Good stuff.

Let me see about the one on-hand and if it doesn't do what I need I'll definitely look into those which you mentioned.

You're more into it than I am. All my installs are done with very little thought of moving from one vehicle to the next. The wife wouldn't be caught dead with any radio stuff in her car and I tend to keep my cars until they're ready to fall apart.

'DSG's setup is fairly low profile: A TM-701A/TM-331A/RC-20 into a triplexer and feeding a Comet or Diamond multiband antenna on a roof-rack mount. The radios are on a base plate and the whole thing goes in and out of the car in less than a minute.

I'll keep my newest acquisition until it falls apart but I don't want to reinvent the wheel next time. Just transfer the radio ensemble, connect the power/audio, antenna and video leads...then call it done.

Obviously, you have different requirements than I do, but I advise you to seriously think about the screwdriver. While I'm not entirely familiar with the Tarheel line, if they're anything like High Sierra, the antenna is very easy to remove from the mount. My HS-1800 only requires me to loosen the hose clamp, pull the 12VDC quick disconnect, and lift it off the brass stud. I never have to remove a coax fitting.

The other think to contemplate is a smaller version of a screwdriver like the Tarheel LT-II, or the LT-HP. If memory serves, you can mount both of these on 3/8-24 mounts like the K400C-3/8. The K400 series are trunk lip mounts that can articulate to accommodate different trunk angles. Have a look at the Tarheel photo gallery for more ideas than you can think of.

The screwdriver is on my short list for extended road trips such as Dayton. I'll need something else for around town and want to cover those particular bases with a capable, coaxial auto tuner. Does such an animal exist?

[KJ3N]

School me: What else is available in the way of a tuner in its feature class?

If the tuner is to be trunk mounted with a short piece of coax, I would go for an IT-100 from LDG. Larger tuning range than the AT-180 at less than half the price. I see no reason to spend $470 on a 3:1 tuner, when you can buy a 10:1 tuner for $180.

The screwdriver is on my short list for extended road trips such as Dayton. I'll need something else for around town and want to cover those particular bases with a capable, coaxial auto tuner. Does such an animal exist?

You could also look at the new LDG RT-100. Even with the optional RC-100, it's a better tuner (for less money) than that overpriced Icom POS.

Before I converted to Elecraft, I was a big Icom fan. But even this Icom fanboy has a real hard time justifying the outrageous amount of coin they want for the AT-180. If you can find an AT-180 for about $200 on the used market, that's one thing. Spending $470 on a new one is just fucking stupid, IMNSHO.

[N8YX]

If the tuner is to be trunk mounted with a short piece of coax, I would go for an IT-100 from LDG. Larger tuning range than the AT-180 at less than half the price. I see no reason to spend $470 on a 3:1 tuner, when you can buy a 10:1 tuner for $180.

You could also look at the new LDG RT-100. Even with the optional RC-100, it's a better tuner (for less money) than that overpriced Icom POS.

Before I converted to Elecraft, I was a big Icom fan. But even this Icom fanboy has a real hard time justifying the outrageous amount of coin they want for the AT-180. If you can find an AT-180 for about $200 on the used market, that's one thing. Spending $470 on a new one is just fucking stupid, IMNSHO.

This is precisely the kind of info I'm looking for. LDG it is, then. And the whole arrangement will be set up with flexibility in mind: When not using the bike carrier I'll have the option of running a screwdriver or a 102" whip on the hitch mount.

I have always wanted to put an IC-7000 control head in that little sunglasses area on our Legacy (we have an '05 we bought new that now has about 75k on the clock). No go from the XYL so all the mobile gear goes in the Optima.

Is this her car?

If not, do what I'm contemplating and replace the OEM stereo with a 7" nav unit/stereo. You don't have to buy the Kenwood which I linked to the thread; I just needed a larger feature-set than most of the aftermarket nav units offer.

And:

One thing though: automatic? Booooo! The Legacy with a 5 speed manual is a riot to drive!

I would love to get the turbo/5sp version of that car...but...it's merely transportation.

When I finally get an area to garage one in, this is coming home:

nissan-370z-nismo-03.jpg

A friend who owns the Infiniti version of that car put me on to a couple things I can do which will boost engine output to north of 500HP, putting it into supercar territory. The OEM spoiler will be replaced by something a bit taller and the vertical mounts will house hidden VHF/UHF antennas. The spoiler periphery will be equipped with a conductor; this will operate as a DDRR and can be remotely tuned. I should be able to work 20M and down with the arrangement.

Getting a roll cage into the Nismo may be a bit tricky - albeit required for SCCA activities - but the nav unit and other essentials are already in place:

nissan-370-interior.jpg