A Question for the Antenna Gurus

[W3WN]

Prolly be amusing to play with antenna modelling software, if you do that.
They will interact, but you may find it useful.

What about simply running multiple wires the full length as in a cage dipole?
But you know, like half of one. Fat and tubular to RF.

Any suggestions on a software app to look for?

[W3WN]

Known as the "cat whisker" antenna, mostly as dipole.

The several verticals will interact with eachother, but it can work, you need to tune each vertical to the right sweet spot, while they interact that will be a hassle, but it can be done.
Using a coil at the feedpoint you could even cramp 80 in there, though with a smaller bandwidth.

Oh, I'm sure I could. And the thought had occurred to me.

Strictly speaking, you could build a trap vertical that would fit inside, given a little ingenuity... imagine a Butternut HF5V or a Cushcraft AV5 (etc) built on a wire, not aluminum tubing (since the fiberglass pole itself will be the physical support), with thinner diameter coils.

If I wasn't going to mount the SGC tuner at the base, that would be a real consideration. But the tuner will "do the work". I'm just thinking that having resonant wires (after some tweaking) will make the system a little more efficient.

I'm not worried about 80/75 at present. The HF6 and the inverted L cover that with no worries. This will be primarily a "high band" vertical that can also cover 40 & 30; and it will double as an SWL antenna for the Hallicrafters S-108 I just picked up as well.

I should add that if this was going to be my primary antenna, I'd be a little more concerned. I'm certainly taking advantage of the situation to "sneak" another antenna into the mix, and it gives me an excuse to do a little experimenting. If it works out, then I may have some nice suggestions for someone who needs to put up a stealth antenna due to home restrictions (be they CC&R's, HOA's, or XYL's -- or OM's in some cases!)

[KJ3N]

If I wasn't going to mount the SGC tuner at the base, that would be a real consideration. But the tuner will "do the work". I'm just thinking that having resonant wires (after some tweaking) will make the system a little more efficient.

The efficiency that you would gain is negligible (and possibly non-existent) compared to the amount of work involved. I'd just run one wire and let the SCG tuner figure it out.

You're being anal, IMHO. ;)

[W3WN]

Anal? Nah. Just cautious.

I don't like reinventing the wheel; if I'm thinking of doing something, I'd like to know if it's been tried before... so that either I know what works, or just as importantly, what doesn't. Thomas Edison may have had time to discover 200 ways NOT to invent a light bulb before succeeding, but I don't have that luxury.

[KJ3N]

Anal? Nah. Just cautious.

I've seen this kind of cautious keep people off the air for months and/or years. They tend to let "Perfect" be the enemy of "Good Enough" and never get on the air. I know of one ham who had an IC-746Pro that didn't get on the air for 2 years because he insisted on having an antenna that could do 75m when he did have the room for it.

I don't like reinventing the wheel; if I'm thinking of doing something, I'd like to know if it's been tried before... so that either I know what works, or just as importantly, what doesn't. Thomas Edison may have had time to discover 200 ways NOT to invent a light bulb before succeeding, but I don't have that luxury.

Which is why I say just run the one wire and let the tuner work it out. The labor to benefit ratio is too skewed in the labor direction, IMO.

[W3WN]

I've seen this kind of cautious keep people off the air for months and/or years. They tend to let "Perfect" be the enemy of "Good Enough" and never get on the air. I know of one ham who had an IC-746Pro that didn't get on the air for 2 years because he insisted on having an antenna that could do 75m when he did have the room for it.< snip >

Oh, not to worry! Like I said, the flag pole is here. And the time frame is "soon" as in "this summer."

This is part of the front porch/small garage rehab project, and it's #1 on the Honey Dew list, so IT WILL get done. Permit me to bore you with explanation:

Part 1 was to seal the concrete surface. Some old cracks needed filled with cement (done), a coat of primer put on the raw & ugly cement (done), followed by a coat of garage paint/sealer (done Saturday, some touch up work last night).

Part 2(a) will be to remove the old painted wood railing (looks like crap & it's falling apart, looks like it's 15 - 20 years old) around the porch. That starts no later than next Saturday, depending on the next few evenings. Then (2b) I start building the frame for a deck right over the old concrete (thus the need to seal it FIRST to prevent leaks into the small garage/storage area underneath). In the process, naturally, radials for the flag pole vertical get run within the frame (deck joists), and I have the wire. Also, holes will be drilled to run coax, electrical power, possibly a spare water line for future use as an outdoor faucet for the front; I'd rather run the pipe and use it later, than try to put it in after the fact. I may also extend the deck further out than the current porch, that depends on some other factors too lengthy to go into now.

Once that's all done, I proceed (2c) to lay down the decking and then (2d) build new railing and a new set of front steps. At this time, the flagpole will be situated -- and the auto tuner place in a sealed container (could be a simple as an old tupperware type container mounted underneath & out of site, but accessible) and everything wired in.

Between time, expenses, material, and unrelated events (like taking a weekend off to go to DC to see the kids), I'm looking at finishing this up, I hope, by the end of July or mid August. I also have to check on whether or not I need a building permit, since I'm putting flooring on the existing porch, not replacing it (some communities require it, some don't). If I do, then I have to do some drawings and such as well, and that will be a delay, but a manageable one.

The boss is a little annoyed that I'm not further along yet, but I pointed out to her that the garden HAD to go in first... can't plant tomatoes in August (in WPa that is) if you want to take advantage of the growing season! She'll get over it.

Incidentally, Phase 3 involves putting a concrete floor in this garage, then dividing it up into three rooms (and cutting a doorway into the basement as well); a front room that will be a combination garden shed/mini workshop, a back room that will be shelving for general purpose storage that's scattered all over the house, and a center room that will become the new shack. You don't really want to hear the details on that phase, do you?

[PA5COR]

^looks like you have lots of work to look forward too...
Planning any spare time in there?

[W3WN]

^looks like you have lots of work to look forward too...
Planning any spare time in there?

Not to worry, I'll manage something!

The biggest problem I'm going to have is figuring out how to get the materials from Point A to Point B. Since I don't have the Subaru Legacy anymore, there are some limits to how much I can haul in the Olds compared to what I used to be able to do. Probably have to rent a truck or van for half a day.

[W1GUH]

I've seen this kind of cautious keep people off the air for months and/or years. They tend to let "Perfect" be the enemy of "Good Enough" and never get on the air. I know of one ham who had an IC-746Pro that didn't get on the air for 2 years because he insisted on having an antenna that could do 75m when he did have the room for it.

Amen to THAT! If ya can't do what's "the best", do what ya CAN do!

If it works...don't knock it!

[PA5COR]

I find myself using the Inverted L for 160 also on 80/40/20 with the tuner at the base.
The FD-4 with added coil will work from 160 -10, but at 45 feet high that will work better from 20 and higher.
The other vertical on the roof, Imax 2000 fed with the European counterpart of LMR400 ( all 50 feet of it) works fine from 17 and up.
You put up what you can do, and work what you can work.
The L antenne gets new pipes ( 80 millimeter added to the bottom) so it wil be a lot stronger ending in 30 mm at 23 meters high.
The rest of the L, a wire of 20 meters will go to the front of the house, ending at 8 meters high.
Too long for 160, but the tuner at the feedpoint takes care ofthat, and being longer as a 1/2 wave at 80 it will tune perfectly even running the Heathkit SB-1000.
Our relations with the neighbours is good, they don't mind the antennafarm here.

I hope you get things done quick without problems, i have some work to do here too, the other mast with the 2/70 beams need to be done, removing the 2/70 beams, put the 6 meter beam higher.
I didn't use the 2/70 beams in yeears, so they can go from the roof, including the 1/2 inch coax, that will cost me a day or 2 and some juggling on the roof.....

That setup will have to last me a long time, the masts and fastenings are all 316 stainless steel, i don't have to worry about that, still looking new after 10 years on the roof.

One reason i have the van is for hauling stuff, i can make use of a 21 foot boat trailer to haul masts and other long stuff, the van can do the rest 7 feet long 6 feeet wide and 6 feet high loading space and 1300 kilo load.


Having verticals, you need every foot of counterpoise, i put in 2100 feet now over the years....
And the MFJ 269 antenna analyser does help too...

Have fun putting your shack in, i hope we even might make a nice QSO.
;)