View Full Version : Here we go again. Another petition against HOAs.
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-u-s-senate-void-antenna-restrictions-by-homeowner-s-associations-and-developers
Some folks just don't know when to quit while they're behind. :roll:
When are these people going to learn that the deck is stacked against them? When are they going to learn that the numbers just don't add up in their favor?
KG4CGC
09-20-2012, 10:07 AM
But antennas are, icky!
The FCC, based on past experience, will treat the petition exactly the same whether it has one signature or 10,000.
The US Senate is unlikely to pass a bill to overturn HOA's regardless of how many petitions are submitted. If a Senate solution is desired, first, you have to find a Senator willing to introduce the legislation... second, you have to hope that the Senator has the means or chutzpah to make sure that the proposed legislation doesn't die in committee... and third, you then have to convince at least 50 other senators to vote in favor of it.
One petition sent generically to the Senate as a body just ain't gonna cut it, bunky!
KB3LAZ
09-20-2012, 12:29 PM
I dont understand the point. If you dont want restrictions, why move into an HOA? I can understand petitioning it if it is not an HOA and these silly rules are still being applied but...dont people understand what they are getting into before they move in?
KC2UGV
09-20-2012, 12:31 PM
I dont understand the point. If you dont want restrictions, why move into an HOA? I can understand petitioning it if it is not an HOA and these silly rules are still being applied but...dont people understand what they are getting into before they move in?
Of course they do. Generally, I've found these are the same people who bitch about zero services, while lauding low taxes. They want their cake, and to eat it too. They want the benefits of an HOA, but don't want the restrictions.
I dont understand the point. If you dont want restrictions, why move into an HOA? I can understand petitioning it if it is not an HOA and these silly rules are still being applied but...dont people understand what they are getting into before they move in?In some cases, the person wasn't licensed when they moved into the HOA & didn't realize the restrictions.
In some cases, the person didn't read the fine print, or it wasn't disclosed.
In some cases, the restrictions didn't exist or weren't as severe at the time the home was purchased, but were imposed on the homeowners by the HOA after they took possesion. Or the rules weren't being strictly enforced then, but are now. Or the HOA has made the new rules retroactive and won't recognize grandfathering.
And in most cases, the person didn't think the rules applied to them. Or didn't pay any attention to them in the first place.
W2NAP
09-20-2012, 03:18 PM
HOA should be done away with. lets have some real freedom!
HOA should be done away with. lets have some real freedom!
You have the freedom to buy an HOA home, or not. What else do you want?
k1oik
09-20-2012, 03:32 PM
HOA should be done away with. lets have some real freedom!
Freedom to blight the sight lines of others because in ham radio it is all about me
In some cases, the person wasn't licensed when they moved into the HOA & didn't realize the restrictions.
That was my first house. There was an HOA, but antenna restrictions never came up, even when I put up a 5/8 wave 10m vertical and an inverted vee. There were many TV antennas scattered around the neighborhood, so I figured if there were any restrictions, they weren't being enforced. Nobody ever came to the door telling me I had to take any of it down.
In some cases, the person didn't read the fine print, or it wasn't disclosed.
Caveat Emptor. It's no one's fault but your own for not doing proper research. Maybe next time, you'll pay attention.
In some cases, the restrictions didn't exist or weren't as severe at the time the home was purchased, but were imposed on the homeowners by the HOA after they took possesion. Or the rules weren't being strictly enforced then, but are now. Or the HOA has made the new rules retroactive and won't recognize grandfathering.
There might be grounds for taking that to court, but IANAL.
And in most cases, the person didn't think the rules applied to them. Or didn't pay any attention to them in the first place.
This is the most likely, IMHO.
W2NAP
09-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Freedom to blight the sight lines of others because in ham radio it is all about me
hey im standing up for not only the ham. but the backyard mechanic the metal scrap collector the guy who wants to paint his house purple with pink stipes the guy who dont want to buy gas to mow his yard so he gets some goats!
KG4NEL
09-20-2012, 03:53 PM
You have the freedom to buy an HOA home, or not. What else do you want?
In theory.
In practice, what happens when it turns into a tradeoff between buying into an HOA, or buying into a depressed area? Seems like it's a pattern that feeds on itself.
In theory.
In practice, what happens when it turns into a tradeoff between buying into an HOA, or buying into a depressed area? Seems like it's a pattern that feeds on itself.
What's a "depressed area? The homes aren't new? More than 20 years old? The first house I had was probably 10-15 years old. The second was at least 60 years old. The current house (pictured below) was built in the mid to late 50s.
73387339
I didn't know I lived in a depressed area. Thanks for pointing that out.
KB3LAZ
09-20-2012, 05:32 PM
What's a "depressed area? The homes aren't new? More than 20 years old? The first house I had was probably 10-15 years old. The second was at least 60 years old. The current house (pictured below) was built in the mid to late 50s.
73387339
I didn't know I lived in a depressed area. Thanks for pointing that out.
Hum..If you do, does that mean the housing costs are uber cheap? Want a new neighbor? Looks like a nice area.
W2NAP
09-20-2012, 05:44 PM
What's a "depressed area? The homes aren't new? More than 20 years old? The first house I had was probably 10-15 years old. The second was at least 60 years old. The current house (pictured below) was built in the mid to late 50s.
thats just it YOU might be lucky to find a "nice" area. but many others dont have that option.
lets say you have 60k to spend and you live where I do. you also want internet so your stuck with cable/dsl (cause ya aint going to be doing much on dial up) so out in the country around here is out since you will get no internet. so you are stuck with city. you want no HOA so you can play radio. guess what. that leaves out all the nice places. (ie newer homes) so your stuck with the old city.. guess what hope you love that you will be living near section 8 thugs who will steal your shit. maybe even kill you for the dollar in your pocket. but you can play radio! course wont do you no good if all your radios get stolen or you end up dead victim of homicide. now if you find a nice city well now your stuck with a lot where you are unable to put any real antennas up. cept maybe a 2 meter stick.
kb2vxa
09-20-2012, 05:48 PM
I remember when this issue came before the FCC and what eventually came out of it was PRB-1 which is simply a set of guidelines some fools believe has the power of law. Not being a layer I can't point out existing law (Constitutional?) but the FCC has a legal reason for not getting involved, the law prohibits meddling in private agreements and contracts. HOA rules are a private contractual agreement so the FCC took a hands off stance so what makes Homer think Congress has power to supersede a private agreement any more than the FCC has?
Oh hey, I see Tux isn't the only metal head with a BC Rich guitar.
KG4NEL
09-20-2012, 09:04 PM
thats just it YOU might be lucky to find a "nice" area. but many others dont have that option.
lets say you have 60k to spend and you live where I do. you also want internet so your stuck with cable/dsl (cause ya aint going to be doing much on dial up) so out in the country around here is out since you will get no internet. so you are stuck with city. you want no HOA so you can play radio. guess what. that leaves out all the nice places. (ie newer homes) so your stuck with the old city.. guess what hope you love that you will be living near section 8 thugs who will steal your shit. maybe even kill you for the dollar in your pocket. but you can play radio! course wont do you no good if all your radios get stolen or you end up dead victim of homicide. now if you find a nice city well now your stuck with a lot where you are unable to put any real antennas up. cept maybe a 2 meter stick.
Not every location had a postwar building boom, either ;)
A lot of the places I was looking at in SW VA were farm fields in the '50s. Probably were farm fields up until not too long ago. It's tough on a budget when the area is either unmaintained claptraps or shiny new construction that comes with HOAs.
thats just it YOU might be lucky to find a "nice" area. but many others dont have that option.
It's not just me. Can't be. I'm not even in the minority. If that were the case, there would be 10s of thousands of signatures on these petitions. I haven't seen one of them gather anything close to 10,000.
The ham radio population in this country is about 750,000. It amounts to 0.2% of a population of 350 million. Now, if you manage to get 10,000 ham signatures on a petition, that's 1.3% of the ham population. Do the math and tell me that any of these petitions will go anywhere.
Get 100,000 to sign up and then I might be interested, even though none of this effects me. Ain't gonna happen.
W4RLR
09-21-2012, 01:13 AM
Finding a home where you can operate as an amateur radio operator sans HOA Nazis takes a lot of work, but it IS doable. Finding our new home took half a year. We have internet via satellite, DirecTV, city water, and AT&T telephone. What restrictions are recorded at the courthouse deal with junk cars, log cabins, and livestock operations, all of which are prohibited. The developer cares not one whit about antennae. The house is twelve years old.
The only downsides? No trash collection. I have to haul the trash to the convenience center at the bottom of the mountain twelve miles away. No newspaper delivery, I'm three miles out of the delivery area. Going to shopping and entertainment varies in distance from 15 to 65 miles. The local movie house is open only two days a week. Most county services are limited. I'm still pestering the county mayor to replace the street signs that are missing.
The good outweighs the bad, though. Best of all, I own a house for a monthly mortgage payment that is $300 less than what I was paying in rent in Florida.
My advice? Do your homework, check the county records for restrictions, and if you can't live in an area administered by an HOA, keep looking.
KB3LAZ
09-21-2012, 04:46 AM
It's not just me. Can't be. I'm not even in the minority. If that were the case, there would be 10s of thousands of signatures on these petitions. I haven't seen one of them gather anything close to 10,000.
The ham radio population in this country is about 750,000. It amounts to 0.2% of a population of 350 million. Now, if you manage to get 10,000 ham signatures on a petition, that's 1.3% of the ham population. Do the math and tell me that any of these petitions will go anywhere.
Get 100,000 to sign up and then I might be interested, even though none of this effects me. Ain't gonna happen.
Avioding an HOA and finding an nice area is not overly hard in PA, OH, or lower NY. At least the areas that I frequent. They are nice neighborhoods too. I guess a lot of it depends on where you live.
For example: I live in the country but I still get internet. I dont have cable or Fios options but I do have DSL which is becoming more and more common in the sticks (again in my area at least).
Now, when I go to visit my family in MD..it is a different story. They live outside of Baltimore and in the country there it is nice but very very very expensive.
Maine is going to be cake as homes are hard to sell there, you get a couple of acres in the right place, at least the places and homes we've been looking at...but here in Vegas, different story. I am embroiled in an HOA situation right now, not because of the Inverted V in the backyard, but for a missing plant in the front yard. The only issue is that its not missing, theres been a plant there for a long time...but i just keep getting these fine notices of $50 a pop for repeated violation. This is after 2 people from the property management and an HOA board member came out and met me to walk the yard, they physically SAW the plant. The old guy from the HOA was an insufferable bastard, old and grumpy. He walked around the yard like a military officer doing an inspection, but i know my shit with this stuff and he didnt scare me like he wanted to (he was starting to piss my wife off, though, i had to step in and take over a couple of times, dont mess with an island woman). The other two were cool and didnt want any trouble. I have high rez pictures of the Lantana flowers i put in there, and copies of everything, im not paying any fines. They sent me another notice before about "securing the cable on the side of the house"...thats my coax, so i did, they had no idea what it was for. I sent the pics and compliance letter by registered mail, but they dont communicate to eachother down there.
The point being, most of these HOA buzzards dont know their ass from a coffee cup, they just like to meddle and nitpick without any real knowledge of how things work, what they are or what its used for. I knew i would have to have an antenna that could come down in a hurry. I know i am in violation, but so are most of the houses on my street for one thing or another. We knew what we were in for, we accept that the HOA is a part of the deal, and we are also over it. We are putting our house up on the market next year and moving out of state when it sells. No more HOA's for us, we learned our lesson.
The point being, most of these HOA buzzards dont know their ass from a coffee cup, they just like to meddle and nitpick without any real knowledge of how things work, what they are or what its used for.
This is precisely why I'll never live in an area with any kind of CCR/HOA retrictions.
Inside every mall cop is a failed/application-denied law-enforcement official, and inside every HOA president is a failed mall cop.
As for security in the inner city or depressed areas goes...you get together the home owners who actually live in an area and take the neighborhood back. That Section 8 house which shelters a never-ending stream of crackheads and crack babies? You have it declared a nuisance, have the city seize it and tear it down. If your city charter doesn't contain so-called 'nuisance tenant' laws, you get the matter before council.
Shine enough light on cockroaches and they'll go somewhere else.
KK4AMI
09-21-2012, 05:54 AM
A couple of acres on a hill top and plenty of 60 to 80 ft oak trees to hang wire from. With fall coming, I wish maybe fewer trees. That is where my big A sits! :)
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2136+Red+Hill+Road,+Charlottesville,+VA&hl=en&sll=38.003385,-79.420925&sspn=7.070416,11.195068&oq=2136+red+hill+rd,+charlottesville&t=h&hnear=2136+Red+Hill+Rd,+Charlottesville,+Albemarle ,+Virginia+22959&z=17
Yep, we are going to be making a scouting trip to this nice mountain town in Maine next year. They have some beautiful houses up there and not a lot of residents. Its also a ski resort town. Most people cant afford the 250k price tag on those chalets, but we are preparing for it, we want one of those.
KC2UGV
09-21-2012, 06:43 AM
In theory.
In practice, what happens when it turns into a tradeoff between buying into an HOA, or buying into a depressed area? Seems like it's a pattern that feeds on itself.
I did not buy my home in a depressed area, and I have no HOA and no CCRs on my deed.
KC2UGV
09-21-2012, 06:44 AM
thats just it YOU might be lucky to find a "nice" area. but many others dont have that option.
lets say you have 60k to spend and you live where I do. you also want internet so your stuck with cable/dsl (cause ya aint going to be doing much on dial up) so out in the country around here is out since you will get no internet. so you are stuck with city. you want no HOA so you can play radio. guess what. that leaves out all the nice places. (ie newer homes) so your stuck with the old city.. guess what hope you love that you will be living near section 8 thugs who will steal your shit. maybe even kill you for the dollar in your pocket. but you can play radio! course wont do you no good if all your radios get stolen or you end up dead victim of homicide. now if you find a nice city well now your stuck with a lot where you are unable to put any real antennas up. cept maybe a 2 meter stick.
If the only nice homes you can find are under HOA's or have CCRs; then you need to find a new real estate agent.
I'm in an HOA hood. I received three letters yesterday.
1) Paint your mailbox (one of the neighbors ran over it and "forgot" to leave a note). I put it back and after last Winter and this Summer, the paint has faded a tad.
2) Please put ground cover on the bank to the right of the driveway.
3) Remove the dead plants (but I don't know where the dead plants are).
But I will admit, I need to do some yard work! ha ha
Hum..If you do, does that mean the housing costs are uber cheap? Want a new neighbor? Looks like a nice area.
I wouldn't say the housing costs are cheap. I live in an area where there are a lot of upscale homes.
There's a housing development down the road that was built about 2-3 years after we moved to the area. The homes there started at $600,000. The last few sold fetched almost $1M. They have 2 HVAC systems in them because they have something on the order of 5,000+ sq. ft. They look impressive, but the lots aren't very big and the house takes up most of the space. Some of the homes have a nice view of the large shopping mall next door. :yuck:
At least 2 of the homes on my street went for close to $400,000. They are, however, fairly new. Both are probably less than 15 years old and big. My guess is something on the order of 4,000 sq. ft., maybe a bit more. They are also 2-story homes. Our place is barely 2,000 sq. ft. and is your typical ranch style house.
When we bought the current place, we got it under market value. I believe we paid $215K. We also bought it from the original owner, who happened to be an 80+ year old ham who was looking to unload it fairly quickly. It needed work (still does in some places), the carpets were old, windows needed replacing, etc. There's no central AC system and probably won't be one anytime soon, since the last estimate came in at $14K. At some point, we'll probably replace the electrical panel and do a bit of rewiring. We took out a 15 year mortgage that has a little over 5 years left to go. Once that's done, then we'll get into some of the other stuff we want to do to the place.
Unlike a lot of people these days, we didn't buy the place as an investment. We plan to live here until we die. We don't care if it's not "perfect" or "new". I treat a house as a home to be lived in, not a financial tool. IMHO, too many people treat their houses as the latter. That's probably one of the reasons that so many people have mortgages that are now underwater.
I convinced the XYL to buy the place not for its value, but for the space it provides me to put up antennas. There are no restrictions here, other than whatever the county has in place. If I wanted to put up a tower, I could. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money and I can't get it pass the XYL, anyway.
KB3LAZ
09-21-2012, 08:19 AM
I wouldn't say the housing costs are cheap. I live in an area where there are a lot of upscale homes.
There's a housing development down the road that was built about 2-3 years after we moved to the area. The homes there started at $600,000. The last few sold fetched almost $1M. They have 2 HVAC systems in them because they have something on the order of 5,000+ sq. ft. They look impressive, but the lots aren't very big and the house takes up most of the space. Some of the homes have a nice view of the large shopping mall next door. :yuck:
At least 2 of the homes on my street went for close to $400,000. They are, however, fairly new. Both are probably less than 15 years old and big. My guess is something on the order of 4,000 sq. ft., maybe a bit more. They are also 2-story homes. Our place is barely 2,000 sq. ft. and is your typical ranch style house.
When we bought the current place, we got it under market value. I believe we paid $215K. We also bought it from the original owner, who happened to be an 80+ year old ham who was looking to unload it fairly quickly. It needed work (still does in some places), the carpets were old, windows needed replacing, etc. There's no central AC system and probably won't be one anytime soon, since the last estimate came in at $14K. At some point, we'll probably replace the electrical panel and do a bit of rewiring. We took out a 15 year mortgage that has a little over 5 years left to go. Once that's done, then we'll get into some of the other stuff we want to do to the place.
Unlike a lot of people these days, we didn't buy the place as an investment. We plan to live here until we die. We don't care if it's not "perfect" or "new". I treat a house as a home to be lived in, not a financial tool. IMHO, too many people treat their houses as the latter. That's probably one of the reasons that so many people have mortgages that are now underwater.
I convinced the XYL to buy the place not for its value, but for the space it provides me to put up antennas. There are no restrictions here, other than whatever the county has in place. If I wanted to put up a tower, I could. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money and I can't get it pass the XYL, anyway.
Yeah, my area is quite a bit cheaper for more or less the same style of housing.
Also, I just put in Central air last year. It cost a little over 8k.
However, housing in my area is down significantly. For about 4 years everything sat without selling. About three months before I came to Spain those houses saw about a 25% price decrease and they started selling, quickly.
The one thing I can say is that I really like the area of PA in which I lived. Quiet, green, and cheap. The job market has seen much better but most of us are in that situation.
KC2UGV
09-21-2012, 08:28 AM
Unlike a lot of people these days, we didn't buy the place as an investment. We plan to live here until we die. We don't care if it's not "perfect" or "new". I treat a house as a home to be lived in, not a financial tool. IMHO, too many people treat their houses as the latter. That's probably one of the reasons that so many people have mortgages that are now underwater.
It's also likely one of the reasons for the housing market collapse. Too many people betting on ever-rising home prices, and expecting quick flips, and moving like renters.
On a slightly related note... I'm just about to the point on the deck project that I should be starting on the flag pole.
Had a little trouble drilling holes last night (my first hole ended up in a unexpected place... right behind a 2x4 that was mounted on the wall, currently holding up antenna aluminum), but did finally get it done. I have the coax feed in place; ran out of daylight before I got the electrical wiring in. That's tonight's part. Once I have the wire in place, and the outdoor outlet boxes mounted, I can seal the holes, add some more trim, and then it's FPV time. Should be this weekend, weather and family permitting.
There are many hams who for one reason or another are stuck in an HOA or CC&R situation that doesn't permit overt antennas. But covert/stealth antennas are another story. And the Flag Pole Vertical is just too good an idea for a covert/stealth antenna to pass up... even if I don't have the restrictions myself...
It's also likely one of the reasons for the housing market collapse. Too many people betting on ever-rising home prices, and expecting quick flips, and moving like renters.A friend of my friend KB3ERQ used to have a side business "flipping" houses. He'd buy them cheap, do some cosmetic fix-ups, and sell them for a nice profit. Until the housing market collapsed... from what Ben tells me, his friend was going broke making the payments on a house he doesn't live in, that is now "under water" (loan is more than he can currently sell the house for). So he may have to walk away and abandon the house to the lender... which will basically wipe out all the 'gains' he made over the first few years.
That is the risk you take as a speculator, of course. One can presume he knew the risks...
KC2UGV
09-21-2012, 10:48 AM
That is the risk you take as a speculator, of course. One can presume he knew the risks...
And that's the problem with easy credit: Housing is not a commodity market.
I hope the credit constriction never lets up. Will it keep some great would-be homeowners from owning a home? Sure. Will it prevent another housing market collapse? You bet.
n2ize
09-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Well, if you live in an HOA where there are antenna restrictions you haver to find work-arounds. Hide some wire in a tree. Or rig up an antenna that can be pulled up at sunset and pulled down at sunrise. Most HOA cops aren't going to see the antenna at night. Set up a hidden antenna, or an indoor antenna. I think it's much harder to operate in an apartment than in an HOA, I agree HOA's suck but if you are stuck in one you have to learn to sneak around the rules.
n2ize
09-21-2012, 04:08 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-u-s-senate-void-antenna-restrictions-by-homeowner-s-associations-and-developers
Some folks just don't know when to quit while they're behind. :roll:
When are these people going to learn that the deck is stacked against them? When are they going to learn that the numbers just don't add up in their favor?
Problem is nowadays HOA's and POA's are hard to avoid unless you move to a rural area or an old and well established neighborhood and these are not always convenient or available. Some states are worst than others with respect to HOA's. One thing I like about NY is that its pretty easy to avoid HOA's. Most suburbs are older established neighborhoods that have been around for a while and don;t have HOA's and once you drift away from the city and suburbs the state turns rural with little restrictions. Other states are not so lucky and often any neighborhood you buy a home is covered by HOA's with some pretty severe restrictions. Another thing is that it discriminates against children who may be or want to become hams. Often parents will buy a home based on what is convenient for them but not with any regard for the interests of their kids. So they buy into an HOA neighborhood and the kid strings up an aerial and next thing you know is two days later some snobby yuppie with his nose turned up is leaning on the doorbell demanding that that ugly thing be removed at once.
n2ize
09-21-2012, 04:13 PM
Freedom to blight the sight lines of others because in ham radio it is all about
me
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zq7AV2EJ2qQ/S8-Jf9KHFiI/AAAAAAAAD5w/NwQ39ptmjcQ/s1600/IMG_0315+chesapeake+boat+fishing.jpg
Much ?
PA5COR
09-21-2012, 04:13 PM
Yep, too much.....
Unlike a lot of people these days, we didn't buy the place as an investment. We plan to live here until we die. We don't care if it's not "perfect" or "new". I treat a house as a home to be lived in, not a financial tool. IMHO, too many people treat their houses as the latter. That's probably one of the reasons that so many people have mortgages that are now underwater.
.
Bingo! This is one of the main driving factors for HOA's...resale value. Except for the fact that most HOA people are farting mummy dust and will likely die there anyway. But with many HOA board members, they are petty, ignorant and high strung. No real sense of enjoyment to begin with. We are going to sell this one next year (after only a year and a half) because we now know what we wished we knew then, we dont want to live here. We want a house in a place that makes us happy to wake up in every day.
KK4AMI
09-21-2012, 04:34 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zq7AV2EJ2qQ/S8-Jf9KHFiI/AAAAAAAAD5w/NwQ39ptmjcQ/s1600/IMG_0315+chesapeake+boat+fishing.jpg
Much ?
Good Grief, I can't keep 4 lines untangled, how does he do it?
Burt intentionally tangles them up, then attacks the beachgoers for it.
kb2vxa
09-21-2012, 08:36 PM
HOA no probleem with main transmitter on beeg mountain een Frostbite Falls, Montana.
Frostbite Falls Minnesota you capeetaleest running dog.
If you think that's bad, wait until he tries to find Mooslyvania...
Soon, no mo skvell und Moose!
kb2vxa
09-22-2012, 07:53 PM
Moosylvania is an island in Veronica Lake on the border of the US and Canada that neither will claim ownership. In 1962 Jay Ward decided to campaign for Moosylvania statehood so he and Howard Brandy embarked on a cross-country tour in a decorated van gathering signatures on a petition. When they arrived at the White House their timing couldn't have been worse, it was the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy wasn't amused and they were escorted off the grounds.
Then there's Potsylvania, an Eastern European country dedicated to all matters related to espionage and deceitfulness; children were taught in schools how to commit crimes and accessible only by submarine. It's the world's source of mooseberries, a key ingredient in rocket fuel, the government is headed by Fearless Leader with the second in charge being Mr. Big. Boris Badenov and Natasha Fatale are their prime agents in the never ending plot code named The World Is Not Enough, Renard is only the front-man.
So much for the geography lesson, now we salute the flag and sing the national anthem.
Hail, Pottsylvania
Hail to the black and the blue!
Hail, Pottsylvania
Sneaky and crooked through and through,
Down with the good guys, up with the boss
Under the sign of the triple cross, hey!
Hail, Pottsylvania,
Hail, hail, hail!
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