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Thread: TBDXC

  1. #1
    Orca Whisperer W3WN's Avatar
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    TBDXC

    Every hear of the True Blue DXers Club? https://www.tbdxc.net/

    I was told about it a few months back. Looked it over, seemed to a group interested in operating DX (obvious from the name? well, that's not always the case) the right way, no shortcuts etc. Didn't see anything objectionable, so I applied and got in.

    Haven't had time the last few months for much operating, so I haven't paid much attention to the group. Until this morning's email. "TBDXC Members and FT 8"

    The gist of the email is this: Operating FT4/FT8 is against the ethos of the club. So anyone operating those modes... in any way... at all.. should not have qualified as a club member and should resign.

    I don't operate any digital modes at the moment. I dabbled with PSK31 years ago, but nothing ever came of it. I don't have FT8 setup, I don't have time for it, and at the moment, no interest in it. I have nothing against the mode... I just have other interests.

    Regardless, there was something about this email that just set my teeth on edge. Drawing this line in the sand? Either you're with us, or you operate FT8? Ridiculous. Absurd. Just not sitting well. But if that's what the leadership of this group wants? Fine.

    I have little enough time for operating. I don't have time to deal with nonsense.

    So as per the email (which I will post separately in a moment), I've told them to remove my membership.

    Thoughts?
    “Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. 90% of the people don’t care, the other 10% are glad it happened.” — Clint Hurdle, 2019

    BAN THE DH!

    Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push something hard enough, it WILL fall down.
    Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law: It goes in, it must go out.

    Just remember: Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain. He died in Washington, DC

    Make Donald Drumpf Again.
    “Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump golfed.” — Bernie Sanders

    Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati


  2. #2
    Orca Whisperer W3WN's Avatar
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    The email:
    -----------
    Dear TBDXC members,

    With considerable unease, we have to raise again on an issue which is guaranteed to create much controversy. We don’t like controversy, but we need to be honest with ourselves and, especially, with our membership.

    The issue is that an increasing number of TBDXC members are very much active on FT8/FT4, and this is against the ethos of the Club as explained in the “join” section of the TBDXC website:

    “Membership of the TBDXC entails your personal commitment to pursuing and promoting DXing specifically as a form of person-to-person amateur radio activity involving the use of radiotelegraphy (CW) or radiotelephony (SSB).

    Therefore, if you enjoy FT8, or you use it ‘because there is nothing else’, or to work a new one ‘no matter how - just as long as I put it in the log’, we wish you all the very best in your ham radio activity, but the TBDXC is not the Club for you.”
    We therefore want to rephrase once more the key concepts, and to point out a couple of things which we thought were explicitly clear, but perhaps weren’t.

    First, the TBDXC is a free association of like-minded people. It has no membership fees, and not even a formal membership, as it does not give members special status, rights or obligations.

    Second, the TBDXC is a lose, informal association. It is not even, strictly speaking, an organisation – it has no governance, no formal management structure. The few decisions which are needed are taken by consensus among the very few individuals who help keep the initiative alive.

    Third – going back to the essential point – the TBDXC is an association of people who like certain things, and do not like other things. Specifically, and critically, we like forms of amateur radio in which information is exchanged between humans and we do not like exchanging information between computers.

    Fourth, the TBDXC as a Club is not “against” FT8. This has been said and repeated many times, but, yet again, this essential point is often misunderstood or ignored. Never, for example, we have taken a position on the inclusion of FT8 contacts in the mixed mode DXCC, or on the validity of DXpedition operations run by computers unattended by humans. Many members feel strongly about these issues, but these are their own opinions and not the Club’s. Not liking an activity means not engaging in it - it does not mean trying to ban it, or to prevent others from engaging in it.

    We therefore have the unpleasant duty of appealing again to those current TBDXC members who are active on digital modes to consider resigning from the Club. We will never “police” our membership, nor we will ever point fingers at individuals. Can we please simply agree that there was a misunderstanding about what the TBDXC is, or that personal likes and dislikes have changed over time. This is perfectly acceptable and nobody will be thought less of for deciding to leave the Club. We simply want the TBDXC to be what it was intended to be: a free, lose, informal association of people who like SSB and CW, and do not like – and therefore are not active on – digital modes.

    Kindly write to us at club@tbdxc.net – and, please, kindly be kind.
    “Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. 90% of the people don’t care, the other 10% are glad it happened.” — Clint Hurdle, 2019

    BAN THE DH!

    Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push something hard enough, it WILL fall down.
    Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law: It goes in, it must go out.

    Just remember: Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain. He died in Washington, DC

    Make Donald Drumpf Again.
    “Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump golfed.” — Bernie Sanders

    Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati


  3. #3
    "Island Bartender" KG4CGC's Avatar
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    My thoughts: Politicization of modes. Polarization takes many forms. Screw them and all those who prioritize taking the fun out of something.

    If it ain't fun don't do it. If it doesn't bring you joy and well being, it's time to go. Life is too short to join up with yet another brother banging his head against the wall. He's hurting himself and even if you feel the same way, your option is to simple not use those modes which do not bring you joy.

    Sounds like they have declared war against any mode they don't like. This will only make those modes more attractive to others. Just like the War On Drugs has increased drugs in this country, their war on FT8 may well stir more interest in it.

  4. #4
    "Usual Suspect" WZ7U's Avatar
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    People are a fucked up bunch

    Like that post was...
    Moving on, my posts are not helpful

  5. #5
    Orca Whisperer W3WN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG4CGC View Post
    My thoughts: Politicization of modes. Polarization takes many forms. Screw them and all those who prioritize taking the fun out of something.

    If it ain't fun don't do it. If it doesn't bring you joy and well being, it's time to go. Life is too short to join up with yet another brother banging his head against the wall. He's hurting himself and even if you feel the same way, your option is to simple not use those modes which do not bring you joy.

    Sounds like they have declared war against any mode they don't like. This will only make those modes more attractive to others. Just like the War On Drugs has increased drugs in this country, their war on FT8 may well stir more interest in it.
    Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "declaration of war", that's a bit strong. Nor do I think this group is big enough for it to piss off enough people. Otherwise I agree with you.

    After reading that email, my first thought was "what next? A ban on D-104 mikes, or J-38 keys?"

    I no longer feel welcome in that group. So I left and told them to take me off the roster. That's that.
    Last edited by W3WN; 11-03-2022 at 12:24 PM.
    “Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. 90% of the people don’t care, the other 10% are glad it happened.” — Clint Hurdle, 2019

    BAN THE DH!

    Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push something hard enough, it WILL fall down.
    Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law: It goes in, it must go out.

    Just remember: Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain. He died in Washington, DC

    Make Donald Drumpf Again.
    “Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump golfed.” — Bernie Sanders

    Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati


  6. #6
    "Island Bartender" KG4CGC's Avatar
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    A bit strong? Perhaps.
    When reading the email, seems nice enough, right? However, with everything these days, like the Russian citizens used to say back when it was called the Soviet Union, aka CCCP, "We have learned to read between the lines."
    Last edited by KG4CGC; 11-03-2022 at 12:27 PM. Reason: Changed wording to Russian citizens

  7. #7
    Orca Whisperer W3WN's Avatar
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    Well, if it is a declaration of war... they're welcome to it. That wasn't what I signed up for.

    And some of the people I know who are shown as members, let alone active members, use certain digital modes on a regular basis. (No, it's not my place to "out" them, so to speak.) They really feel this way about modes they use? A few choice terms come to mind.
    “Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. 90% of the people don’t care, the other 10% are glad it happened.” — Clint Hurdle, 2019

    BAN THE DH!

    Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push something hard enough, it WILL fall down.
    Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law: It goes in, it must go out.

    Just remember: Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain. He died in Washington, DC

    Make Donald Drumpf Again.
    “Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump golfed.” — Bernie Sanders

    Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati


  8. #8
    "Island Bartender" KG4CGC's Avatar
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    "Your fist is too perfect. Your spacing too precise. Are you using a computer CW program?"

    You know, not much difference between CW and digital, IMHO. It either is or it isn't. I mean, on/off. Dits, dahs and spaces. Almost, binary.

  9. #9
    Orca Whisperer W3WN's Avatar
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    Received this reply email this morning...
    -----------
    Dear Ron,

    I don't know how else to explain this. I have tried in all possible manners, and still the message doesn't get through.

    1. There are plenty of excellent DX Clubs.

    2. Among those, one states very clearly and very explicitly that it was created for those horrified at the near extinction of CW and SSB activity resulting from the FT8 explosion.

    3. People voluntarily sign up for this one Club because (we thought) they *like* CW and SSB and they *do not like* FT8. The Club asks NOTHING of them, except a commitment to operate according to their shared likes and dislikes.

    Results:
    - almost 50 TBDXC members have worked DXCC on FT8 in the first 10 months of 2022!
    - every DXpedition is worked by plenty TBDXC members on FT8, on multiple bands.
    - a lot of members are MORE active on FT8 than CW or SSB.

    Now, you can understand what the real problem is. The Club is morally and intellectually bankrupt - that is the problem.

    The occasional digital QSO - in whatever form - never was a problem, and never will be.

    I hope this clarifies my state of near despair.

    73 [ redacted ]
    ----------------
    The "occasional digital QSO" is not the problem? OK, sure, that's what I first thought.

    Yet... "We simply want the TBDXC to be what it was intended to be: a free, lose, informal association of people who like SSB and CW, and do not like – and therefore are not active on – digital modes." sure seems incompatible with that "occasional" comment.

    Nope. This is not a DX group for me. Not after this exchange.

    (If I wanted to stay in a group that was "morally and intellectually bankrupt" I wouldn't have dropped my political affiliation last year, but that's a topic for another forum)
    Last edited by W3WN; 11-04-2022 at 07:16 AM.
    “Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. 90% of the people don’t care, the other 10% are glad it happened.” — Clint Hurdle, 2019

    BAN THE DH!

    Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push something hard enough, it WILL fall down.
    Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law: It goes in, it must go out.

    Just remember: Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain. He died in Washington, DC

    Make Donald Drumpf Again.
    “Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump golfed.” — Bernie Sanders

    Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati


  10. #10
    "Usual Suspect" WZ7U's Avatar
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    I thought the "True Blue" part smacked of trumpism attitude.

    A psk31 pox on all their equipment.

    Like that post was...
    Moving on, my posts are not helpful

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