Requesting your expertise setting up a radio system...

[Jazz003]

Hello all!
I have just joined your very informative forum looking to hopefully find some answers into setting up a specialized radio system. After much research I am starting to get a handle on things but at the same time I still seem to be a bit overwhelmed with all the varying info I seem to find. It looks as if my needs fall into a specialized (or uncommon) area.

Here is the scenario. I am a member of a cycling group. We are just making a name for ourselves and are starting to do quite well (hoping to become a team at some point). One of the things we are lacking is good communication between a few key riders and sometimes a support vehicle which is on the road with us (but not all the time). We would love to have radios so we can converse while out on the roads. I am somewhat knowledgeable in electronics/computers/radios and this is why the group has asked me to equip them with a radio system that will work well for us. The radios would need to get as best a range as possible for being lightweight, weather resistant, reliable, clear, etc...basically a professional end of radio that will perform for us. We generally ride in less urban areas which can be in treed or hilly, mountainous terrain.

I have looked into FMRS, GMRS, CB, Marine, MURS, HAM, & Commercial handhelds. There's licensing or certification with some, there's yearly cost for others, and quite frankly some of this can become a bit of a hassle for a group of riders who just want to stay in contact with the group during a ride.

As far as I can see, I think our best bet is to go with a MURS handheld because it allows us to select from a few public frequencies and there's no licensing or certification. If there's a better way to go please let me know. I have looked into MURS handhelds but I have to admit I have not found one I like as far as quality of build or reviewed performance. This has led me to wonder if it's possible to get a commercial grade radio and program it to only use MURS frequencies. I am aware that MURS is 2 watt and most commercial radios are 5 watt (which some are programmable to perform on 2 watts). I can't seem to find out what professional cycling teams use but if I were to guess they must have a repeater in their support vehicle so that their radios can remain small and somewhat weak on the output power. We won't have this luxury so we will have to make up for it with more powerful radios that can reach a further distance.

I have come across the Yaesu VX-3R but also realize it is for HAM usage. After reading a few posts it sounds like this radio has a lot of potential for modification. I like how small it is and that it sticks to the 2 watt output required for MURS. Would this be a good choice of radio to modify to the MURS frequencies? Can this even be done?

I need your help to figure out which way I should go here. Our spring training is already in full force and I am starting to feel the pressure of getting something for our group that we can start using.

I look forward to conversing with you and hearing what input you are willing to share.

RK

[NQ6U]

Not an expert in this stuff by any means but MURS does seem to be your best option. As far as radios go, I have a Yaesu VX-2, which is similar to the VX-3, and can attest to it's durability. Buy a programming cable, though, because it's a PITA to program without it. Check before buying Yaesu's software—there is free software available for download for my VX-2, I imagine it's the same for the VX-3

[Jazz003]

Yeah, I'm sure the programming would be a pain on the radio itself, software is usually the better way to go. I've just been looking at the FT-60R and the VX-6R which also look to be quite small but yet more powerful. I just don't know if they can be setup to work as a legal MURS handheld. If there's any other make other than Yaesu someone thinks might be better please let me know.

[WØTKX]

MURS for sure. You may want to monitor the frequencies of interest for a while, and see who may be using them frequently. Antennas on the bicycles may be a good idea, keeping in mind that the FCC rules are probably "Effective Radiated Power", instead of power in watts. But "handie talkie" antennas suck, for the most part.

[K7SGJ]

Not an expert in this stuff by any means but MURS does seem to be your best option. As far as radios go, I have a Yaesu VX-2, which is similar to the VX-3, and can attest to it's durability. Buy a programming cable, though, because it's a PITA to program without it. Check before buying Yaesu's software—there is free software available for download for my VX-2, I imagine it's the same for the VX-3

I agree with Carl. Your best bet is probably MURS. Plus, I don't think it would me FCC muster to put the Yaesu on the multi use bands. A couple of watts @150 MHz will travel a goodly distance. GMRS can get you 5W @ 450-470 (or there abouts) which will do even better. There are many inexpensive units available on Ebay and other such sites. I find them at garage sale all the time, cheap. Keep in mind, GMRS still requires a system license, which may change soon, and the license holder has to be 18 or older. Of course, there are no age limits to use the radios, that I know of anyway. As for cost, I don't know what the filing fess are any more, but are available at the FCC.gov website, I'm sure. Good luck with the team.

[K7SGJ]

MURS for sure. You may want to monitor the frequencies of interest for a while, and see who may be using them frequently. Antennas on the bicycles may be a good idea, keeping in mind that the FCC rules are probably "Effective Radiated Power", instead of power in watts. But "handie talkie" antennas suck, for the most part.

The last I knew, FRS had to have a non removable antenna, but MURS and GMRS can still use an external antenna.

[Jazz003]

Yes, you bring up one of many points I have yet to get to. If we place the radios in our back jersey then our body is effectively blocking the antenna for any communications in front of our bodies. Mounting an antenna to the bike probably would not work for having to mount and dismount our bikes. Mounting it on top of out helmets would be the best, highest, unobstructed place but the extra weight on our necks might not work. I have heard that there are PTT harnesses out there that have a great airtube earpiece, a good finger PTT button and also has an antenna mount that can be clipped to a higher place on clothing on your body. Then all you do is transfer the radios antenna to this clip mount. I have not come across this feature of a harness even though I have looked long and hard for one so maybe it's a fairytale but it does sound like a great idea to help get the antenna more out in the open.

Plus, through my research, it does sound like one needs to make sure they get the best antenna for the setup to maximize performance and range, which is another thing I would need help with. As you can see I am aware of all the decisions and how complex this will be but I am up for this challenge in putting together something what will be awesome to use. Keep the recommendations coming!

[Jazz003]

I just found myself laughing at seeing a cyclist go whipping past with a 2 ft antenna sticking straight up from his helmet! None of our riders would be under 18 yrs of age. But riders do change often in our group so any type of licensing would become a bit of a bother trying to make sure everyone is always covered. What are the ramifications of using a 5 watt radio on MURS? Why the restriction on distance with MURS (especially out in open country where we usually are)?

[K7SGJ]

Yes, you bring up one of many points I have yet to get to. If we place the radios in our back jersey then our body is effectively blocking the antenna for any communications in front of our bodies. Mounting an antenna to the bike probably would not work for having to mount and dismount our bikes. Mounting it on top of out helmets would be the best, highest, unobstructed place but the extra weight on our necks might not work. I have heard that there are PTT harnesses out there that have a great airtube earpiece, a good finger PTT button and also has an antenna mount that can be clipped to a higher place on clothing on your body. Then all you do is transfer the radios antenna to this clip mount. I have not come across this feature of a harness even though I have looked long and hard for one so maybe it's a fairytale but it does sound like a great idea to help get the antenna more out in the open.

Plus, through my research, it does sound like one needs to make sure they get the best antenna for the setup to maximize performance and range, which is another thing I would need help with. As you can see I am aware of all the decisions and how complex this will be but I am up for this challenge in putting together something what will be awesome to use. Keep the recommendations coming!

There are also VOX and Bluetooth interfaces you can adapt to handhelds, too. The PTT and ext audio in, and headphone out are usually brought out through a mini stereo, and a mini mono jack respectively, which could then go to the interface. It just depends on how creative you are and how much $$ you can afford to invest in it.

[K7SGJ]

I just found myself laughing at seeing a cyclist go whipping past with a 2 ft antenna sticking straight up from his helmet! None of our riders would be under 18 yrs of age. But riders do change often in our group so any type of licensing would become a bit of a bother trying to make sure everyone is always covered. What are the ramifications of using a 5 watt radio on MURS? Why the restriction on distance with MURS (especially out in open country where we usually are)?

It's just how the different services are set up, and probably to minimize interference as much as possible. Each person doesn't require a license in the GMRS, just one person holds the license for the group. When you fill out the application, you specify how many units you expect to have 1-5, 5-10, or whatever. If you exceed the 2 watts in the MURS, nothing will probably happen, unless you get caught. Then, anything from a warning on up. Plus, if you have a ham license, that would be in jeopardy as well. It's best to play by the rules.