FCC grants a waiver allowing hams to use TDMA

[kb2vxa]

"Show me where ESSB ops with a wide clean signal get busted?"

Unfortunately time has intervened and the NALs are deeply buried in the FCC archives or may have been deleted. I remember a group in Bergen County, NJ on 20M that got busted back in the late '90s, I wouldn't lie but if you refuse to take me at my word I really don't care.

"Many AM folks run 12 Khz wide."

I've been aware of the AM Gangstas in the 75M window have been doing it for decades and I've not heard of any getting busted. Then there's Timtron, Sir Riley of Hollingsworth wrote a warning about his "testicling" that was rather funny but I digress. There are plenty of hams running re-tuned hollow state AM broadcast transmitters that pass typically up to 7.5KHz audio making them 15KHz wide and I know a certain Johnson Valiant modified for 600 ohm balanced line level audio that tested out to 11KHz before modulation rolls off, all reports on the audio FB. Oh, using an FM peak limiter with 75uS pre-emph helps a bit. (;->)

Conclusion: Yay Emmers complain about the slopbucketeers but they get along with each other famously. On the other hand the ESSB crowd generally doesn't play well with the neighbors, some go WAY overboard with EQ and processing like a broadcast station never sees. Well, some use hammers and cheese graters, they sound like shit but I digress. You should know the FCC by now, they don't monitor the ham bands except Riley is a ham who joins in and you have to light a fire under them just to get them to take notice. Bottom line, hams on 20M lit the fire.

"I have run 6khz wide with a clean signal, but only if I don't bother the "neighbors"."

More power to you, up to 1500W that is. Good neighbors don't get complaints, that's the way it's always been.

[WØTKX]

Sorry I gave the impression that I thought you were lying, WTF?



OTH, I run 1.8-2K wide tailored to my voice, and that kicks ass in difficult conditions... Which is almost always on 75 meters.

[KC2UGV]

Exactly my point, gents. A 12KHz wide signal on a 160 is ridiculous, while a 3KHz signal on 440MHz is banned, because of it's emission type.

[WØTKX]

Yup... Although 160 has a lot of unused space most of the time.

[kb2vxa]

"Sorry I gave the impression that I thought you were lying, WTF?"

No big deal, but with all the "links or you're lying" BS around here...

"...difficult conditions... Which is almost always on 75 meters."

It's not so much a crowded band but rather what it's crowded with.

"A 12KHz wide signal on a 160 is ridiculous..."

Only to those lacking a proper receiver designed for the purpose and a good monitor speaker, with an SSB receiver and tin box speaker you can't hear the Angel Music.

"Yup... Although 160 has a lot of unused space most of the time."

Exactly, the AM window isn't exactly a crowded house, you don't have neighbors to disturb. Even with neighbors, audio processed just right with no distortion products doesn't splatter so just like the AM broadcast band in the pre IBOC days you can fit stations every 10KHz with no problem. Speaking of AM broadcast, 160M is where plenty of junked tube type broadcast transmitters showed up being those made for the top of the band are easily tuned anywhere from 1MHz to 3Mhz without modification.

Then there's that previously mentioned Valiant fed by the audio rack that proofed out to 11KHz @ 100% modulation before rolling off, in the 40M AM window it got FB reports and no complaints. (heh heh heh)

[KC2UGV]

""A 12KHz wide signal on a 160 is ridiculous..."

Only to those lacking a proper receiver designed for the purpose and a good monitor speaker, with an SSB receiver and tin box speaker you can't hear the Angel Music.

Then why not allow a 12KHz wide digital signal on the same band?

[KC9SQR]

Don't try to understand it. It's not ham radio, but an attempt by the clueless no-coders to recycle their old analog cell phones as talkies on our bands--bringing us all to the intelligence of CBers and the end of the world as we know it.

I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with cell phones and ham radio.. I do get what this ruling has to do with ham radio, just not analog cell phones...
I could be wrong, but I've never known TDMA to be analog...
I'm also unsure of how to reband a cell phone or how to simplex with one without a tower...

Are you referring to the Nextel off network Direct Talk 900 mhz PTT?
If so, this doesn't apply to those. Those use FHSS and are digital.. Not much would be needed to make them part 97 compliant as FHSS has been allowed for a while, and they stay within 902-928 MHZ.. Unless I'm mistaken which I could be, wouldn't be the first, and damn sure won't be the last I'm sure lol...

[kb2vxa]

"A 12KHz wide signal on a 160 is ridiculous... Then why not allow a 12KHz wide digital signal on the same band?"

Did I say it was allowed? If I did please feel free to point it out in a quote.

"I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with cell phones and ham radio.. I do get what this ruling has to do with ham radio, just not analog cell phones... I could be wrong, but I've never known TDMA to be analog..."

Two "channel" TDMA is G2 cell phone technology used on some Motorola VHF/UHF communications systems to put two separate channels, usually one data and one voice on a single carrier. Multichannel TDMA puts more on one carrier, all digital allowing many simultaneous users on a single RF channel. Both are more efficient use of spectrum than one user or user group per channel like a repeater and the new ruling is exactly the same thing, certainly NOT more efficient use of spectrum. That's why right from the start of this thread I've been saying it makes no sense.

"Are you referring to the Nextel off network Direct Talk 900 mhz PTT?"

No, actually it's on the network or units couldn't communicate at a distance but I don't know how it works, just that it does. FYI Nextel is going bye bye as early as next June. I don't know what this next generation Direct Connect is they're migrating to but here it is from the horse's mouth. http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_d...rticle_id=2296

[KC9SQR]

"A 12KHz wide signal on a 160 is ridiculous... Then why not allow a 12KHz wide digital signal on the same band?"

Did I say it was allowed? If I did please feel free to point it out in a quote.

"I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with cell phones and ham radio.. I do get what this ruling has to do with ham radio, just not analog cell phones... I could be wrong, but I've never known TDMA to be analog..."

Two "channel" TDMA is G2 cell phone technology used on some Motorola VHF/UHF communications systems to put two separate channels, usually one data and one voice on a single carrier. Multichannel TDMA puts more on one carrier, all digital allowing many simultaneous users on a single RF channel. Both are more efficient use of spectrum than one user or user group per channel like a repeater and the new ruling is exactly the same thing, certainly NOT more efficient use of spectrum. That's why right from the start of this thread I've been saying it makes no sense.

"Are you referring to the Nextel off network Direct Talk 900 mhz PTT?"

No, actually it's on the network or units couldn't communicate at a distance but I don't know how it works, just that it does. FYI Nextel is going bye bye as early as next June. I don't know what this next generation Direct Connect is they're migrating to but here it is from the horse's mouth. http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_d...rticle_id=2296

Thanks :)
I have a pretty good idea on how TDMA works, which is why I was, and still am still trying to figure out AE1PT's comment about this being about no coders wanting to bring their old analog cell phones to be used as walkie talkies on our bands...

I also have heard about the Sprint/Nextel killing off what's left of their IDEN network.. That will make the Direct Connect or anything on the IDEN handsets not work anymore. But certain models (quite a few actually) have an off network PTT mode called Direct Talk or "Mototalk". Which is a 900 mhz FHSS digital two way radio.. It only works with other "Mototalk" handsets that are specifically in that off network mode and on the same "channel and code"..

They only output 600 Milliwatts but they are impressive, I have a pair I've played around with and in a somewhat dense city environment I've actually gotten 2+ miles out of these things.. I wasn't sure if that's what AE1PT was referring to or not...

I'm also a bit disappointed that they're not allowing the 2 slot division system... Kind of defeats the purpose of what it's intended to do... Which makes me wonder, I've been told you're allowed to run that similar mode on other modulations on the ham bands.. Dstar, DMR, and p25... Unless I was misinformed (which I wouldn't be surprised) I wonder why those can do 2 slot but TDMA isn't being allowed basically the same thing... Actually isn't DMR based off of TDMA? I've heard of DMR being used on ham bands, I haven't seen it used, but I'm willing to bet they're using voice/data setup, or 2 slot voice..

In reality the way I see it, TDMA is only being "half allowed" lol

I forgot to add a link for more information on "Mototalk"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOTO_Talk

And here's a list of the compatible handsets for that off network mode I mentioned..
BTW I'm not really interested in trying to use these things with any ham privileges, I just think they're kind of neat and have some potential behind them

MOTO Talk is available on these iDEN models:

• i680
• ic902
• i880
• i870
• i850
• i760
• i670
• i580
• i560
• ic502
• ic402
• i315
• i355
• i365
• i325is
• i275
• i9
• M710
• i425
• i576
• r765, r765is
• i570
• i786
• i776
• i465
• i296
• i335

[KC2UGV]

"A 12KHz wide signal on a 160 is ridiculous... Then why not allow a 12KHz wide digital signal on the same band?"

Did I say it was allowed? If I did please feel free to point it out in a quote.

You don't have to say a 12KHz signal is allowed on 160m. It is. As long as it's an approved emission type (ie, AM, ESSB, SSB, etc etc), it is.