Mickey Mantle's restaurant is about to be SK

[W1GUH]

He wasn't bitching about that. He was bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices:

Villano blamed the shutdown on “increasing food prices, shifting city regulations and landlord interference.

That sounds like a businessman who can't come up with a flexible enough business strategy to cope with rent, food price increases, and regulatory climate; pining for the days where you could clean glasses by spitting on them, you could get potatoes for 10 cents for a 50 lb bag, milk was a nickel a gallon, and rent was only $50 a month.

Hell, people here pay top dollar for mom-and-pop restaurant cuisine. And, I'm sure they do in NYC as well.

It can be dangerous to start commenting when you're not embedded in the culture about which your commenting.

I you WERE, what you'd be seeing is that only the deep-pocketed huge chains are now able to start up new businesses here. They've got the $$$$$ that the greedy landlords know they can get from those businesses. And that shuts down and shuts out a LOT of mom & pop type operations. And, it probably true that those big $$$$$ chains are getting plenty of concessions from mikey. Even the 2nd avenue deli was close for a while when their rent was jacked up into the usurious nether regions. Finally re-opened in a smaller space at 33rd and 3rd.

Hell, people here pay top dollar for mom-and-pop restaurant cuisine. And, I'm sure they do in NYC as well.

Buffalo and NYC are two completely different worlds, and any attempt to compare them like that is going to be wildly inaccurate. Different markets, different culture, different everything.

[KC2UGV]

It can be dangerous to start commenting when you're not embedded in the culture about which your commenting.

When it comes to things like this, it's not unique to NYC... It happens in every major city. Remember, I live in the second most populous city in NYS.

I you WERE, what you'd be seeing is that only the deep-pocketed huge chains are now able to start up new businesses here.

Mick's wasn't a startup. They've had 50 years of operating already under their belt.

They've got the $$$$$ that the greedy landlords know they can get from those businesses.

Right. He was bitching about rent.

And that shuts down and shuts out a LOT of mom & pop type operations.

A sign those businesses (Especially 50 year old ones) have become inflexible. This is not a new environment they are diving into. This is something they've seen and been able to work with gradually.

And, it probably true that those big $$$$$ chains are getting plenty of concessions from mikey. Even the 2nd avenue deli was close for a while when their rent was jacked up into the usurious nether regions. Finally re-opened in a smaller space at 33rd and 3rd.

Maybe, instead of bitching about the rent being too damned high, that's what Mick's should have done.

Buffalo and NYC are two completely different worlds, and any attempt to compare them like that is going to be wildly inaccurate. Different markets, different culture, different everything.

True, they are pretty different. However, the dynamics are the same: When a person is bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices; that's just cover-speak for not being a flexible business anymore.

[n2ize]

True, they are pretty different. However, the dynamics are the same: When a person is bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices; that's just cover-speak for not being a flexible business anymore.

Actually that isn't true. Manhattan real estates and rents are through the roof. It is hard for many people to comprehend how much it costs to buy, lease, rent properties in Manhattan. I know a few business owners who had to leave Manhattan and move to the outer boroughs, or out of NYC altogether because, after decades, they could no longer afford to stay there. And all of them put painstaking efforts into being diverse, flexible, and , dare I say the word...trendy. One guy actually moved up to Rochester and he is doing quite well. The cost of rent/lease being a fraction of what it was costing to function in Manhattan. Had he stayed in Manhattan he would be bankrupt today. People I know who had affordable apartments in the Lower East Side could not afford to move back there today, despite the fact they are making much more money today.

So yes, food prices, regulation and high rent is more than enough to put you out of business for good in Manhattan. Unless you are a chain or unless you've got some big money behind you. Manhattan has become a playground for the rich. The cool people all crossed the bridge and are in Brooklyn these days. But for how long I don't know.

Then there are some places that aren't flexible and haven't changed at all and still continue to thrive in Manhattan. Katz deli on Houston is one example. Still looks inside like it did in the 1940's. last time I was there they still had the sign that reads "Send a salami to your boy in the army."

[n2ize]

It can be dangerous to start commenting when you're not embedded in the culture about which your commenting.

I you WERE, what you'd be seeing is that only the deep-pocketed huge chains are now able to start up new businesses here. They've got the $$$$$ that the greedy landlords know they can get from those businesses. And that shuts down and shuts out a LOT of mom & pop type operations. And, it probably true that those big $$$$$ chains are getting plenty of concessions from mikey. Even the 2nd avenue deli was close for a while when their rent was jacked up into the usurious nether regions. Finally re-opened in a smaller space at 33rd and 3rd.

^^^^ +10000000

[KC2UGV]

Actually that isn't true. Manhattan real estates and rents are through the roof. It is hard for many people to comprehend how much it costs to buy, lease, rent properties in Manhattan. I know a few business owners who had to leave Manhattan and move to the outer boroughs, or out of NYC altogether because, after decades, they could no longer afford to stay there. And all of them put painstaking efforts into being diverse, flexible, and , dare I say the word...trendy. One guy actually moved up to Rochester and he is doing quite well. The cost of rent/lease being a fraction of what it was costing to function in Manhattan. Had he stayed in Manhattan he would be bankrupt today. People I know who had affordable apartments in the Lower East Side could not afford to move back there today, despite the fact they are making much more money today.

So yes, food prices, regulation and high rent is more than enough to put you out of business for good in Manhattan. Unless you are a chain or unless you've got some big money behind you. Manhattan has become a playground for the rich. The cool people all crossed the bridge and are in Brooklyn these days. But for how long I don't know.

So, instead of adjusting your prices accordingly, you just bitch about the costs of business in an area where real estate prices are through the roof?

Good god! I understand the price issues in Manhattan. A 1000 sq ft retail space will easily set you back $17K/month (Starting, and that is for non-ground floor retail, which can easily fetch $35K/month).

So, instead of complaining about the cost of inputs, you do what every other business does: Raise prices, or move. This business wanted to do neither, so it failed.

[NQ6U]

So, instead of complaining about the cost of inputs, you do what every other business does: Raise prices, or move. This business wanted to do neither, so it failed.

Then people say "it's gotten too expensive!" and go instead to one of the chains that can afford to subsidize their outlets in high-rent areas with the profits from the ones located in less expensive places. The net result is the extinction of locally-owned businesses.

[KC2UGV]

Then people say "it's gotten too expensive!" and go instead to one of the chains that can afford to subsidize their outlets in high-rent areas with the profits from the ones located in less expensive places. The net result is the extinction of locally-owned businesses.

People will, in fact, buy things (Especially restaurant dining) that are more expensive, as long as it's high quality; and given the proper atmosphere.

Case in point: 5 Star Restaurants that charge upwards of $200 per plate.

[N7YA]

People will, in fact, buy things (Especially restaurant dining) that are more expensive, as long as it's high quality; and given the proper atmosphere.

Case in point: 5 Star Restaurants that charge upwards of $200 per plate.

The problem here is that they didnt start out doing this, they started out as a neighborhood place, affordable, etc...they established themselves with that base, thats the face they wear. Try to change that and its over.


edit....looks like you just said this, nevermind.

[KC2UGV]

Then people say "it's gotten too expensive!" and go instead to one of the chains that can afford to subsidize their outlets in high-rent areas with the profits from the ones located in less expensive places. The net result is the extinction of locally-owned businesses.

And, on the other hand, since Mick's is in Manhattan, and was started over 50 years ago, it was opened when Manhattan was a very different place than it is today. Real estate there was still reasonable. The issue here, is that Mick's got gentrified out of the neighborhood, and refused to move.

[n2ize]

So, instead of adjusting your prices accordingly, you just bitch about the costs of business in an area where real estate prices are through the roof?

Good god! I understand the price issues in Manhattan. A 1000 sq ft retail space will easily set you back $17K/month (Starting, and that is for non-ground floor retail, which can easily fetch $35K/month).

So, instead of complaining about the cost of inputs, you do what every other business does: Raise prices, or move. This business wanted to do neither, so it failed.

That's the whole issue. An entire culture has been driven out of NYC because of high prices and greed. To many people who are not from NYC it doesn't matter NYC is just another one of many shitholes. But,. to those of us who grew up here, who lived here, and who developed an appreciation for the sense of culture and soul that the city has the loss of these places is difficult to adjust to, These things have meaning to us. It is where we grew up, it's what we remember, it's what we are a part of. It's not easy for us to simple say, "well fuck it", and it's all over.

Now I understand that times change, prices go up, and we all have to move on with the times and forget the past. I also understand that the purpose of a city is to generate revenue and not to cater to "feelings" or "culture" or "soul". I am willing to accept that and move on. But, guys like Paul and myself do have a right to say it is a shame. Especially when so much of the outlandish pricing and over-regulation, and the driving out of the middle class culture the art, the music, etc. has more to do with greed than just the natural progression of change with time.. I don't expect people to understand because It's the sort of thing where you would have to have lived here, grown up here and been a part of.it all over the years to understand. It would be sort of like if you were to tell me about the culture and atmosphere of Buffalo and how it has changed. I doubt I would really understand because I am not from up there so I can;t appreciate things about Buffalo that you might. Same thing with NYC and many of the great and uniique things that have been lost too time and, in many regards to greed and a "get rich quick at all costs" mentality that has thrown away some of the very good and wonderful things that have made NYC a great place in so many different ways.