Mickey Mantle's restaurant is about to be SK

[W3WN]

I have to agree. Everyone has their faults. In Mick's case it was too much booze. Messed up his liver. None of us are perfect. But all in all Mick was a great guy in that he played some good baseball and make lots of fans and kids happy and proud. And patrons like him and his restaurant. It was symbolic of good food, great baseball and an all round great guy. A guy with faults but a great guy nonetheless. The restaurant became a legacy in and of itself just as Mick himself. It is sad to see it closing because it was a part of a great city and a still great city that has sadly is loosing too many of the things that make it great. I guess its happening all over the country. I know a lot of rural folks tel me their favorite town ain't the same after the small Ma and Pa shops and restaurants have left and have been replaced by the chains. We are all in the same boat. We are loosing too many of the good things that made our big cities and our small towns unique and spacial to those who knew and grew up with them.

I know a little of Mantle's story; of course as a kid in NNJ, I grew up idolizing him, as most kids my age did. (Wouldn't happen to as great a degree today, since Ball Four came out, a lot of indiscretions that the writers would look the other way on now get reported on the front page, but I digress)

His family was dirt poor, worked in the coal mines. His father and uncle and other family members died young. Those are driving forces that haunted him, as he clearly didn't want to go home to work in the mines (before he became famous, of course), and he had an understandable fear of dying at a young age. His boozing & womanizing came in part from those fears, and from trying to live a lifetime in what was thought to be a much smaller time span than it turned out to be.

After baseball, I know he was involved in several ventures, most of which didn't work out financially, for one reason or another. Still, he had his looks and his fame.

I don't know how involved he actually was in the day-to-day operation of the restaurant. I suspect that his partner(s) did most of the grunt work, and his job was to be the face of the place, the main attraction if you will. Not unusual, it happens all the time (Jerome Bettis's restaurant out by Heinz Field is a good example of that). So once he passed, it's not surprising that the establishment fell on hard times; if anything, I'm surprised it lasted 20 years after.

WRT the other mention: Yes, a lot of mom & pop places are being displaced. It actually happened all the time, but now they're being displaced by chains that can run cheaper (economies of scale & national advertising), as opposed to a new M&P place replacing an old one. But those dynamics are a topic of discussion for another time.

Suffice to say: If you want your local place to survive, patronize them. And if they provide exemplary service or products, tell them & encourage them.

For example: There's a reason why our monthly club breakfast is at a little hole-in-the-wall slightly-out-of-the-way place called The Beach House. We could easily go to a chain restaurant a little more centrally located. But the food's better, the service is better, they like to see us come in, and the cost is about the same.

[n2ize]

It actually sounds like somebody complaining, because their business wasn't flexible enough to change with the times.

How do you know it didn't change with the times. These days "changing with the times" in NYC means turning into an overpriced trendy place that has no real style, or class let alone legacy. Micks was a great place and yeah, now its dead and it will change with the times and it will be just like a million other trendy overpriced dumps that can be found in any generic city. And it's not just old farts who feel this way. I know a lot of young people, early 20's and 30's who don't like what NYC and other places are turning into. You'd be surprised how many young people will flock to some of the older places because they appreciatethe style, the class, the soul and character that many of these places / neighborhoods have (or once had).

[KC2UGV]

How do you know it didn't change with the times. These days "changing with the times" in NYC means turning into an overpriced trendy place that has no real style, or class let alone legacy. Micks was a great place and yeah, now its dead and it will change with the times and it will be just like a million other trendy overpriced dumps that can be found in any generic city. And it's not just old farts who feel this way. I know a lot of young people, early 20's and 30's who don't like what NYC and other places are turning into. You'd be surprised how many young people will flock to some of the older places because they appreciatethe style, the class, the soul and character that many of these places / neighborhoods have (or once had).

Changing with the times, includes changing to adapt current regulatory environment.

A lack of ability to adapt, given the rules of the free market, means death for any business.

[n2ize]

I know a little of Mantle's story; of course as a kid in NNJ, I grew up idolizing him, as most kids my age did. (Wouldn't happen to as great a degree today, since Ball Four came out, a lot of indiscretions that the writers would look the other way on now get reported on the front page, but I digress)

His family was dirt poor, worked in the coal mines. His father and uncle and other family members died young. Those are driving forces that haunted him, as he clearly didn't want to go home to work in the mines (before he became famous, of course), and he had an understandable fear of dying at a young age. His boozing & womanizing came in part from those fears, and from trying to live a lifetime in what was thought to be a much smaller time span than it turned out to be.

After baseball, I know he was involved in several ventures, most of which didn't work out financially, for one reason or another. Still, he had his looks and his fame.

I don't know how involved he actually was in the day-to-day operation of the restaurant. I suspect that his partner(s) did most of the grunt work, and his job was to be the face of the place, the main attraction if you will. Not unusual, it happens all the time (Jerome Bettis's restaurant out by Heinz Field is a good example of that). So once he passed, it's not surprising that the establishment fell on hard times; if anything, I'm surprised it lasted 20 years after.

WRT the other mention: Yes, a lot of mom & pop places are being displaced. It actually happened all the time, but now they're being displaced by chains that can run cheaper (economies of scale & national advertising), as opposed to a new M&P place replacing an old one. But those dynamics are a topic of discussion for another time.

Suffice to say: If you want your local place to survive, patronize them. And if they provide exemplary service or products, tell them & encourage them.

For example: There's a reason why our monthly club breakfast is at a little hole-in-the-wall slightly-out-of-the-way place called The Beach House. We could easily go to a chain restaurant a little more centrally located. But the food's better, the service is better, they like to see us come in, and the cost is about the same.

Interesting about Mickey's background. In the old days there were quite a few ball players that were born into poverty. I remember reading a similar story about Yogi Berra. He was born to a very poor family and as a kid played "baseball" in vacant lots. Ditto for a few others I've read about.

And yeah, if you want some of these smaller businesses to stay in it is a good idea to patronize them. I see all too many places failing and end up taken over by the big chains

[W1GUH]

Yes, Mickey was a very warmly loved favorite. His drinking a fault? Not for us to judge, really. He was having a good time, was (AFAIK) a great, happy, fun-loving drunk, and who knows? It's not clear if it was his drinking that did in his liver or not. Lots of people drink lots and lots and don't have that problem. Work hard, play hard - the credo of hard-working, talented people everywhere!

UGV:

It actually sounds like somebody complaining, because their business wasn't flexible enough to change with the times.

Or principled enough to recognize that, in this case, "change with the times" means shit-canning the good stuff and exchanging it with consumer suburban mall plastic, meaningless bullshit where everybody pays to wear ads for the expensive clothes they wear.

[KC2UGV]

Or principled enough to recognize that, in this case, "change with the times" means shit-canning the good stuff and exchanging it with consumer suburban mall plastic, meaningless bullshit where everybody pays to wear ads for the expensive clothes they wear.

He wasn't bitching about that. He was bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices:

Villano blamed the shutdown on “increasing food prices, shifting city regulations and landlord interference.

That sounds like a businessman who can't come up with a flexible enough business strategy to cope with rent, food price increases, and regulatory climate; pining for the days where you could clean glasses by spitting on them, you could get potatoes for 10 cents for a 50 lb bag, milk was a nickel a gallon, and rent was only $50 a month.

Hell, people here pay top dollar for mom-and-pop restaurant cuisine. And, I'm sure they do in NYC as well.

[W1GUH]

He wasn't bitching about that. He was bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices:

Villano blamed the shutdown on “increasing food prices, shifting city regulations and landlord interference.

That sounds like a businessman who can't come up with a flexible enough business strategy to cope with rent, food price increases, and regulatory climate; pining for the days where you could clean glasses by spitting on them, you could get potatoes for 10 cents for a 50 lb bag, milk was a nickel a gallon, and rent was only $50 a month.

Hell, people here pay top dollar for mom-and-pop restaurant cuisine. And, I'm sure they do in NYC as well.

It can be dangerous to start commenting when you're not embedded in the culture about which your commenting.

I you WERE, what you'd be seeing is that only the deep-pocketed huge chains are now able to start up new businesses here. They've got the $$$$$ that the greedy landlords know they can get from those businesses. And that shuts down and shuts out a LOT of mom & pop type operations. And, it probably true that those big $$$$$ chains are getting plenty of concessions from mikey. Even the 2nd avenue deli was close for a while when their rent was jacked up into the usurious nether regions. Finally re-opened in a smaller space at 33rd and 3rd.

Hell, people here pay top dollar for mom-and-pop restaurant cuisine. And, I'm sure they do in NYC as well.

Buffalo and NYC are two completely different worlds, and any attempt to compare them like that is going to be wildly inaccurate. Different markets, different culture, different everything.

[W3WN]

Which reminds me, you still coming in for the Tigers on the 23rd?

[KC2UGV]

It can be dangerous to start commenting when you're not embedded in the culture about which your commenting.

When it comes to things like this, it's not unique to NYC... It happens in every major city. Remember, I live in the second most populous city in NYS.

I you WERE, what you'd be seeing is that only the deep-pocketed huge chains are now able to start up new businesses here.

Mick's wasn't a startup. They've had 50 years of operating already under their belt.

They've got the $$$$$ that the greedy landlords know they can get from those businesses.

Right. He was bitching about rent.

And that shuts down and shuts out a LOT of mom & pop type operations.

A sign those businesses (Especially 50 year old ones) have become inflexible. This is not a new environment they are diving into. This is something they've seen and been able to work with gradually.

And, it probably true that those big $$$$$ chains are getting plenty of concessions from mikey. Even the 2nd avenue deli was close for a while when their rent was jacked up into the usurious nether regions. Finally re-opened in a smaller space at 33rd and 3rd.

Maybe, instead of bitching about the rent being too damned high, that's what Mick's should have done.

Buffalo and NYC are two completely different worlds, and any attempt to compare them like that is going to be wildly inaccurate. Different markets, different culture, different everything.

True, they are pretty different. However, the dynamics are the same: When a person is bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices; that's just cover-speak for not being a flexible business anymore.

[n2ize]

True, they are pretty different. However, the dynamics are the same: When a person is bitching about rent, regulations, and food prices; that's just cover-speak for not being a flexible business anymore.

Actually that isn't true. Manhattan real estates and rents are through the roof. It is hard for many people to comprehend how much it costs to buy, lease, rent properties in Manhattan. I know a few business owners who had to leave Manhattan and move to the outer boroughs, or out of NYC altogether because, after decades, they could no longer afford to stay there. And all of them put painstaking efforts into being diverse, flexible, and , dare I say the word...trendy. One guy actually moved up to Rochester and he is doing quite well. The cost of rent/lease being a fraction of what it was costing to function in Manhattan. Had he stayed in Manhattan he would be bankrupt today. People I know who had affordable apartments in the Lower East Side could not afford to move back there today, despite the fact they are making much more money today.

So yes, food prices, regulation and high rent is more than enough to put you out of business for good in Manhattan. Unless you are a chain or unless you've got some big money behind you. Manhattan has become a playground for the rich. The cool people all crossed the bridge and are in Brooklyn these days. But for how long I don't know.

Then there are some places that aren't flexible and haven't changed at all and still continue to thrive in Manhattan. Katz deli on Houston is one example. Still looks inside like it did in the 1940's. last time I was there they still had the sign that reads "Send a salami to your boy in the army."