Germany's solar power equals 20 nuke plants.

[N2RJ]

Cor, where does Germany get power from at night?

Our cooperative has about 100 kW of solar at its offices but it is only active during the day. In fact when I look at the monitoring graph, I see maximum production occurring just around noon and actually that varies during the seasons. Cloudy days like all this week, forget it. On a heavily clouded day, they are lucky to produce even 2 kW. Of course in full sun it is not a problem.

I actually like solar, but the problem of getting energy at night is still there. You can pump water up a hill and then use that you drive a hydroturbine, this requires more complication and more real estate.

Canada gets 70% of its power from Hydro. I think they got it right. Of all the renewables, Hydro is the most reliable and the most time tested. We get approximately 70% of all power from Hydro and nuclear power over here. However, that may be less this year due to one of the nuclear reactors being shut down for repairs. The Cooperative wanted a large solar farm, but town that had the approvals decided to not approve it because of aesthetic concerns from residents. I guess they'd rather have sulfur dioxide raining down upon them instead of watching the solar farm which really doesn't produce any noise or other pollution.

In the end I think we need to move towards an all of the above solution instead of just one or two renewables that look like they might solve the problem but really don't. Solar should be part of the complete energy mix that includes other clean energy sources including nuclear power.

[PA5COR]

Germany has lots of windgenerators too, providing power at night.
Using solar power only they can also use their many water basins used for power generation and pump excess water back up in the daytime to be regenerated at night.
Spain uses liquid salt heated to 800 degrees F that can be stored and the heat used at night to generate electricity.
At home you can use the larger bateries like from battery powered fork lift trucks and sinus inverters, the larger batteries used for traction are ideeal for solar power use and can hold a lot of power.

Home users can also opt to sell their eccess to the grid, and use the grid at night and so have their bills slashed.
Or combine your solar panels with a smaller wind generator, there are some good ones delivering 500 watts per hour and combine that with battery and sinus inverter.

300.000 people in the netherlands will have solar panels installed on their home this year, out of 6 million homes.
Lots of factory buildings have them now, municipal buildings etc, no space wasted.
Combine it with geo thermal energy for heating, waste to energy production etc. and you can build a reliable 24/7 energy production covering the needs.
Even if we here in the Netherlands sit on a very large natural gas supply in our ground, and export that, we will be going to alternative green sources as main supply for our electricity needs.
Just like Germany will, Portugal already has 50% of their electricity out of green renewable sources...like Denmark, and Spain.
Less money spend on oil, less pollution, less dependancy on other countries supplying you with energy.
In Europe we have a good grid, so countries can use each other excess with small transport losses.
Countries like the netherlands which are flat and lots of sea can produce lots of power by wind turbing parcs put 10 miles out in the sea, or at land.
There is wind enough, even if it dies down in the Netherland Germany Portugal, Spain Italy or any other country can have excess of power to be sold.
You have lots of waste land left like deserts to put up solar panels that get enough sun every day.
Even here where we have lots of cloudy days we have a positive financial outcome of solar panels.

[N1LAF]

FYI...

Commercial concentrated solar power plants were first developed in the 1980s. The 354 MW SEGS CSP installation is the largest solar power plant in the world, located in the Mojave Desert of California.

The Desert Sunlight Solar Farm is a 550 MW solar power plant under construction in Riverside County, California, that will use thin-film solar photovoltaic modules made by First Solar

The Topaz Solar Farm is a 550 MW photovoltaic power plant, being built in San Luis Obispo County, California.

The Blythe Solar Power Project is a 500 MW photovoltaic station under construction in Riverside County, California

The Agua Caliente Solar Project is a 290 megawatt photovoltaic solar generating facility being built in Yuma County, Arizona.

The California Valley Solar Ranch (CVSR) is a 250 megawatt (MW) solar photovoltaic power plant, which is being built by SunPower in the Carrizo Plain, northeast of California Valley.

The 230 MW Antelope Valley Solar Ranch is a First Solar photovoltaic project which is under construction in the Antelope Valley area of the Western Mojave Desert, and due to be completed in 2013.


Bloomberg New Energy Finance, in March 2011, put the 2010 cost of solar panels at $1.80 per watt, but estimated that the price would decline to $1.50 per watt by the end of 2011. Nevertheless, there are exceptions—Nellis Air Force Base is receiving photoelectric power for about 2.2 ¢/kWh and grid power for 9 ¢/kWh.

Also, since PV systems use no fuel and modules typically last 25 to 40 years, the International Conference on Solar Photovoltaic Investments, organized by EPIA, has estimated that PV systems will pay back their investors in 8 to 12 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power

[W5GA]

Unfortunately, PV power can't be used in all parts of the country. I'd hate to see what one hail storm like we get here would do to a PV farm. Baseball and larger sized hail and PV panels don't mix well.

[ad4mg]

Unfortunately, PV power can't be used in all parts of the country. I'd hate to see what one hail storm like we get here would do to a PV farm. Baseball and larger sized hail and PV panels don't mix well.

A fairly good sized PV panel 'farm' was being installed at the new Child Development Center in Norfolk the last time I was there. Hail storms there are not uncommon, and I was pondering that very same thing when I saw it!

[N2RJ]

Unfortunately, PV power can't be used in all parts of the country. I'd hate to see what one hail storm like we get here would do to a PV farm. Baseball and larger sized hail and PV panels don't mix well.

They can cover it with lexan I think.

[PA5COR]

Germany has it's share of thunderstorms with lots of large hail, never heard of broken or destroyed solar cells.
Mine are mounted on thich Stainless steel plates and Lexan covered when produced.
Stiff by the plate behind it, and protected by lexan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Spain

The Andasol 1 power plant went online in November 2008, and has a thermal storage system which absorbs part of the heat produced in the solar field during the day. This heat is then stored in a molten salt mixture and used to generate electricity during the night, or when the sky is overcast.
A 15 MWe solar-only power tower plant, the Solar Tres project, is in the hands of the Spanish company SENER, employing molten salt technologies for receiving and energy storage. Its 16-hour molten salt storage system will be able to deliver power around the clock. The Solar Tres project has received a €5 million grant from the EC’s Fifth Framework Programme.^[6]

Solar thermal power plants designed for solar-only generation are well matched to summer noon peak loads in prosperous areas with significant cooling demands, such as Spain. Using thermal energy storage systems, solar thermal operating periods can even be extended to meet base-load needs.^[6]
BP Solar begun constructing a new solar photovoltaic cell manufacturing plant at its European headquarters in Tres Cantos, Madrid.^[11] For phase one of the Madrid expansion, BP Solar aimed to expand its annual cell capacity from 55 MW to around 300 MW.

[N2RJ]

I am pretty sure we have a lot of solar installations in this country. In fact, New Jersey has the best incentives nationwide. The problem with some of the unused land you speak about is that private landowners prefer not to give it up. Somewhere I heard that Ted Turner may have millions of acres in his name that he uses for ranching.

Some land is also owned by Indian tribes and some are owned by US government.

It is the same problem we have with drilling - There are many who do not want to use land for development of energy sources whether it be fossil fuels or renewables. Nobody wants anything in their backyard either. Environmental issues are very real though, the reason you can't just put up solar farms to cover the entire desert is because you might actually end up killing animals and plants there.

Let's face it, there is no such thing as totally green energy. But i favor a balanced approach. solar and wind coupled with Hydro and nuclear will provide all of our energy needs and then some.

[suddenseer]

My neighbor installed photo voltaic panels a few years back. He indicated it will take about 8 more years to break even. He enjoys running a/c in the summer, and still sends a small amount to the grid. John is right, the manufacturing, delivery, replacement parts, etc will not even come close to breaking even with the oil consumed. i look at it as national security issue buying oil from country's whose national religion calls for stoning women, and executing gay people is very unstable. We must stop buying oil from those places.

[suddenseer]

Unfortunately, PV power can't be used in all parts of the country. I'd hate to see what one hail storm like we get here would do to a PV farm. Baseball and larger sized hail and PV panels don't mix well.

Not to mention these panels are a hot item to be stolen, and resold on the black market. I have read that a couple of hours work in thievery can net $tens of thousands$.