Penn State Mess

[suddenseer]

There goes Penn State's squeaky clean image. The people falling on their swords to protect JoePa is disgusting.

[W3WN]

There goes Penn State's squeaky clean image. The people falling on their swords to protect JoePa is disgusting.

JoePa has gotten a lot of people looking out for him over the decades. And to be fair, for the most part, he has earned it.

Keep in mind somethings:

At the time of the alleged incident (which is not to say it didn't happen, but technically, at the moment, it is only an allegation), Sandusky was NOT on Paterno's staff. Read that again: Sandusky was no longer an employee of Penn State, let alone an underling of Paterno's.

The people that Paterno reported the allegations to included the man responsible for the campus police department... and believe me, they are a real police department. There are a lot of complaints that Paterno didn't call the police... but he went right to the guy ultimately in charge.

Now, should Penn State have banned Sandusky at the time of the report? Sure. I would have. I think this is where they failed. Who are "they"? The very people now under indictment for perjury.

It's very easy to blame Paterno. And I agree, he is not without some degree of fault... he did everything he was legally supposed to, but he should have done more, he should not have relied on his AD and the other administration people to take care of it. Maybe he just couldn't bring himself to believe that a long time, once trusted, now retired associate could have done anything close to these accusations; I don't know. Maybe he was lied to by those perpetuating the cover-up; again, I don't know.

My point is that we don't know everything, yet the media and those with their own agendas are screaming for the head of everyone involved to any degree. There is a more than a whiff of a rush to judgement... look, I don't want to defend Sandusky, it makes me ill to even have to write the following line, but the fact of the matter is, he has been charged with a serious and heinous crime, but he has NOT been tried in court, he has NOT been convicted in a court of law. Just in the media.

Of course, whether or not he is convicted (and based on what evidence that's leaked out, he's in deep, deep doo-do), his reputation is ruined, and he will never again be employed by any organization that has anything to do with youth.

Regarding Paterno... well, I don't want to draw a firm conclusion until we know more details about what he actually did about this, what he was told, and what other actions were taken. Without knowing the context, it is difficult to conclude that his apparant inactions in not doing more, in and of themselves, demand that he be forced out. That is not to say that there may not be consequences. His legacy is damaged, to say the least. I simply know that I don't know enough, just what's been reported... and I know that many of these reporters have been looking for reasons to get him fired retired for years, so I'm not so sure that they're all that unbiased.

Context matters.

Now: Don't be surprised if Penn State's President is forced out over the scandal as well. And if Spanier goes, I can almost guarantee that his successor will clean house... odds are also pretty good that even if he isn't, the new Athletic Director (and there almost certainly will be a new AD) will clean house. I strongly suspect that Paterno will not be on the sidelines next year. If not officially because of the scandal, then officially because of his health issues... but more likely, the new AD will take the "high road" and proclaim that anyone tainted by the scandal has to go. Including, if not especially, Paterno.

Woody Hayes couldn't survive punching an opposing player. Compared to what Sandusky is alleged to have done, that's peanuts. So I strongly suspect that Paterno will be gone after the bowl game... and it probably won't be a major bowl unless they win the Big 10+2 championship outright, because of the black cloud Sandusky has brought down on the program.

What a way to go.

[KA9MOT]

JoePa has gotten a lot of people looking out for him over the decades. And to be fair, for the most part, he has earned it.

Keep in mind somethings:

At the time of the alleged incident (which is not to say it didn't happen, but technically, at the moment, it is only an allegation), Sandusky was NOT on Paterno's staff. Read that again: Sandusky was no longer an employee of Penn State, let alone an underling of Paterno's.

The people that Paterno reported the allegations to included the man responsible for the campus police department... and believe me, they are a real police department. There are a lot of complaints that Paterno didn't call the police... but he went right to the guy ultimately in charge.

Now, should Penn State have banned Sandusky at the time of the report? Sure. I would have. I think this is where they failed. Who are "they"? The very people now under indictment for perjury.

It's very easy to blame Paterno. And I agree, he is not without some degree of fault... he did everything he was legally supposed to, but he should have done more, he should not have relied on his AD and the other administration people to take care of it. Maybe he just couldn't bring himself to believe that a long time, once trusted, now retired associate could have done anything close to these accusations; I don't know. Maybe he was lied to by those perpetuating the cover-up; again, I don't know.

My point is that we don't know everything, yet the media and those with their own agendas are screaming for the head of everyone involved to any degree. There is a more than a whiff of a rush to judgement... look, I don't want to defend Sandusky, it makes me ill to even have to write the following line, but the fact of the matter is, he has been charged with a serious and heinous crime, but he has NOT been tried in court, he has NOT been convicted in a court of law. Just in the media.

Of course, whether or not he is convicted (and based on what evidence that's leaked out, he's in deep, deep doo-do), his reputation is ruined, and he will never again be employed by any organization that has anything to do with youth.

Regarding Paterno... well, I don't want to draw a firm conclusion until we know more details about what he actually did about this, what he was told, and what other actions were taken. Without knowing the context, it is difficult to conclude that his apparant inactions in not doing more, in and of themselves, demand that he be forced out. That is not to say that there may not be consequences. His legacy is damaged, to say the least. I simply know that I don't know enough, just what's been reported... and I know that many of these reporters have been looking for reasons to get him fired retired for years, so I'm not so sure that they're all that unbiased.

Context matters.

Now: Don't be surprised if Penn State's President is forced out over the scandal as well. And if Spanier goes, I can almost guarantee that his successor will clean house... odds are also pretty good that even if he isn't, the new Athletic Director (and there almost certainly will be a new AD) will clean house. I strongly suspect that Paterno will not be on the sidelines next year. If not officially because of the scandal, then officially because of his health issues... but more likely, the new AD will take the "high road" and proclaim that anyone tainted by the scandal has to go. Including, if not especially, Paterno.

Woody Hayes couldn't survive punching an opposing player. Compared to what Sandusky is alleged to have done, that's peanuts. So I strongly suspect that Paterno will be gone after the bowl game... and it probably won't be a major bowl unless they win the Big 10+2 championship outright, because of the black cloud Sandusky has brought down on the program.

What a way to go.

I know I am getting in here late, but I agree with most everything posted here. I think Paterno going to his higher up (The Minimum) is how it is done and has been done for centuries. He is legally without fault yet, the media and others are making him the bad guy. It is as if they think Paterno himself was in cahoots with Sandusky and that is just wrong.

I see now reason to throw somebody like this under the buss....

[W3WN]

I know I am getting in here late, but I agree with most everything posted here. I think Paterno going to his higher up (The Minimum) is how it is done and has been done for centuries. He is legally without fault yet, the media and others are making him the bad guy. It is as if they think Paterno himself was in cahoots with Sandusky and that is just wrong.

I see now reason to throw somebody like this under the buss....

Joe Paterno is far from perfect. One of his faults is his ego. He should have retired a decade or more ago, but he didn't.

Certain sportswriters and media type refuse to believe his image as almost squeaky-clean actually was. After all, so many others idols have fallen, so why would this one be any different?

So: It turns out that the one-time heir apparant is a sleeze. It's not that hard a leap to presume that Joe's ego wouldn't let him see what was going on... doesn't make it true, mind you, but it's certainly possible. And thus, the association is made, and here's the chance for the holier-than-thou to topple the idol.

I should point out that as more comes out, the angrier I as an alumni get at the University adminsitration. I honestly don't think that Joe knew; and I hope I'm not wrong on that, because that would mean he's a true hypocrite on top of everything else. I do think that the administration conspired to cover this up, to "protect" Joe, Penn State Football, themselves, and Penn State... in that order.

[sarcasm] Worked out pretty well, hasn't it? [/sarcasm]

[KA9MOT]

Joe Paterno is far from perfect. One of his faults is his ego. He should have retired a decade or more ago, but he didn't.

Certain sportswriters and media type refuse to believe his image as almost squeaky-clean actually was. After all, so many others idols have fallen, so why would this one be any different?

So: It turns out that the one-time heir apparant is a sleeze. It's not that hard a leap to presume that Joe's ego wouldn't let him see what was going on... doesn't make it true, mind you, but it's certainly possible. And thus, the association is made, and here's the chance for the holier-than-thou to topple the idol.

I should point out that as more comes out, the angrier I as an alumni get at the University adminsitration. I honestly don't think that Joe knew; and I hope I'm not wrong on that, because that would mean he's a true hypocrite on top of everything else. I do think that the administration conspired to cover this up, to "protect" Joe, Penn State Football, themselves, and Penn State... in that order.

[sarcasm] Worked out pretty well, hasn't it? [/sarcasm]

I know that you know that I am from Pennsylvania, and knowing that, I am certain you won't believe me when I tell you I don't really know who Joe Paterno is. I've heard his name and recognize it but I thought he was a football player from the 60s or 70s that got a deadly disease and died and they made a movie about him.........


It just seems wrong, it is plain for me to see that the man is in trouble for doing what he was s'posed to do. And they tell me on the news that he has been a wonderful person who is known and loved by many and now he is in trouble.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned the guy did what he was s'posed to do. He told his superior. Turns out, that was all he was required to do, and now the world thinks him a bum. I wouldn't accuse him of anything. It's just proof that life sucks so badly for some people they jump at the chance to point the finger at somebody on somebody else's say so. Instead of jumping to conclusions based on rumor and speculation, I'll wait until I see some kind of proof.....

Leave the old guy alone.

[X-Rated]

I know I am getting in here late, but I agree with most everything posted here. I think Paterno going to his higher up (The Minimum) is how it is done and has been done for centuries. He is legally without fault yet, the media and others are making him the bad guy. It is as if they think Paterno himself was in cahoots with Sandusky and that is just wrong.

I see now reason to throw somebody like this under the buss....

In my memory, I don't remember an interview with JoPa going like this...

Interviewer: Your quarterback threw several interceptions today. What do you plan to do about that?
JoPa: Well, I mentioned several key issues he needed to work on. He didn't seem to comply much, so, what am I to do? I'm just like a coach. I don't really have any authority or anything like that.

JoPa is passionate about football. He is a man who can make things happen. The fact that he knew about this and did nothing is really really sick. Hiding behind an excuse that you are helpless and finding support in allowing child rape is really sick.

[KA9MOT]

The fact that he knew about this and did nothing is really really sick. Hiding behind an excuse that you are helpless and finding support in allowing child rape is really sick.

What you are stating is incorrect. He heard a story (no proof) and carried the story heard to his bosses to figure out what to do. He witnessed nothing (that we know of) and went up the chain with what he heard. Just as you would do at your job.

I think he did nothing wrong, if he didn't see it with his own eyes.

[X-Rated]

What you are stating is incorrect. He heard a story (no proof) and carried the story heard to his bosses to figure out what to do. He witnessed nothing (that we know of) and went up the chain with what he heard. Just as you would do at your job.

I think he did nothing wrong, if he didn't see it with his own eyes.

I didn't say he declined to testify as a witness in a trial. I said he failed to go to the police when he was told of a crime.

If you have a child come home and they say that they were beaten and they have the people's name who beat them, do you tell the child that it is a pity that you yourself did not stand there and witness the beating because if you had, you could take it to the authorities with it? But as it is, they will have to suck an egg?

But yeah. These are classic talking points for covering up criminal activity.

[KA9MOT]

I didn't say he declined to testify as a witness in a trial. I said he failed to go to the police when he was told of a crime.

If you have a child come home and they say that they were beaten and they have the people's name who beat them, do you tell the child that it is a pity that you yourself did not stand there and witness the beating because if you had, you could take it to the authorities with it? But as it is, they will have to suck an egg?

But yeah. These are classic talking points for covering up criminal activity.

Huh? That is not what happened.

This is how I see it. Bob B witnessed OFIC (Old Fart in charge) having his was with Chuck C (a minor). Bob B struggles with what he just witnessed and shared it with EOOFIC (Even Older Old Fart in Charge). EOOFIC did not see it but had knowledge that it happened and he passed it on to his superior OOFE (Oldest Old Fart Ever) to be investigated as the old wise one would see fit.

I live in a town with a large State College (WIU). Before I lived here, I lived in a Town with a very well known and respected College (Monmouth College). My buddy Jeff used to be the head of Security at Monmouth. We once discussed some of the parties that were happening on Campus after several students had been carted off to the hospital for Liquor Poisoning, fighting etc. You know the stupid crap we all did when we were kids. Anyway, I asked Jeff why Monmouth PD doesn't take a party down before the problems occurred. His answer surprised me.

Monmouth PD can not enter College property unless called in by Security. That is the deal that was made. If Monmouth PD chases somebody on Campus they must stop chasing them unless they have permission from Security. Security usually allows them too, but there has been some trouble between them.

WIU is much larger and has it's own police force. Same deal as Monmouth. Macomb PD stays off campus unless invited.

Jeff says the college feels college kids shouldn't get into trouble for the things that they do like underage drinking, and that is why they police themselves.

[KC2UGV]

What you are stating is incorrect. He heard a story (no proof) and carried the story heard to his bosses to figure out what to do. He witnessed nothing (that we know of) and went up the chain with what he heard. Just as you would do at your job.

I think he did nothing wrong, if he didn't see it with his own eyes.

I even got a report of something that COULD be child molestation; I would call the police.