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Thread: Phase lock loop problem Ranger RCI 2950

  1. #21
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    Ko0M = the Ranger 2950 is a borrowed piece.
    Honestly - the guy was a old CB'r and had it modified to work in the 11 meters.
    The only thing I can say is that to adjust it properly, you would need a frequency generator.
    I don't really think that you need a sillyscope - because there is instructions - free - on the internet and in the owners manual of some models that explains how to align it.

    Our one club member here works for the state of Pennsylvania and does their tower / repeater work for the western half of Pennsylvania. Needless to say - that is one heck of a lot of towers that he has to take care of.

    He has the tools and equipment to align the radio properly, just doesn't have the time.
    I could take it to Bob's CB shop, which is probably where it was purchased new - but I don't believe in doing anything illegal - hence it would jeopardize my license to even use a amateur radio which has been modified for use on the cb bands - even though I have no intention of trying to use it on the cb bands.
    25 watts isn't exactly a barn burner.

    What I will say, and this is being truthful is that the 10 meters band will go up and down 2 kc's when the band conditions are poor, but the band is open.
    Experienced hams - who worked the bands before the advent of these new modern radios will all tell you that it was common to chase a person up and down the band, trying to zero beat each other when both operators radios were a little off.

    One other club member, who was married to a cousin of mine, although she is dead and they were divorced, gave me a 4 years supply of QRT magazine - hope I spelled that right. I spent many a day and night reading those magazines and trying to glean some information about ham radio out of them, in my opinion, they are a rip off - because they spend half the magazine trying to promote new items which are sold in the second half of the magazine. It's like one big one hour infomertial.
    Needless to say one night, I had a revelation - when you tune your radio so the other person sounds low - you will sound high to the other person.
    When you learn how to zero beat a person and ignore the frequency display - you can learn how to tune a radio - just by using a Ranger 2950.

    Once I learned this - I got nothing but glowing signal reports from everyone that I talked to.
    The other thing that I learned is that both your antenna and the receive antenna does the real work. If the ham on the transmit side and the ham on the receive side are both using the same exact antenna, the same exact length of wire and the same exact radio, more times then not - both people will have identical signal reports. 5/5 5/7 5/8 etc..
    If the ham with the beam antenna and amplifier gives you a S/9 - chances are you will give him a S/9 just because his antenna has enough gain to pick the weak signals out of the bands.

    The people with the strongest signals tends to be the contesters who are only out for themselves, that wants glowing signal reports and many contacts. Unfortunately most of these hams also tends to flock at or very near the call channel frequency.
    The problem then becomes if they are a S/9 into your location and are on 28.405 - you will still hear them on 28.400 because their splatter - signal is so wide that they bleed over on everyone else.
    Unfortunately those inconsiderate slobs are not real hams because if they were, they would realize that they could do everything that they were doing on 28.400 mhz on 28.800 and higher and not infringe upon other hams with their garbage.

    Most of those loud mouths gets offended when you tell them this is the call channel or your signal is extremely wide. A couple has gone to far as to tell me to get rid of my cb radio and buy a real ham radio with filters so you don't hear their crap with their big expensive radios or amplifiers.

    The truth to the matter is - if their big expensive radios has those expensive narrow filters and they are using them - you wouldn't hear their signal being so wide - because what it does on receive it also does on transmit. Just that they are too ignorant to know this.

    There is only so much bandwidth to go around and if all the hams got on the air at the same time - such as what happens on field days, there wouldn't be a quiet place to get on the radio - because the bands would be full.
    That means that we all have to share.
    That would include the contester - who should reduce his / her power level down to the minimum amount of power necessary to censate a transmission and that they should allow other people to also use the frequency.
    After all - if everyone in amateur radio was out for themselves, all they would have to do was get home from work before everyone else and stake out a claim on a certain frequency and hold that frequency all night long and no one else would be able to use it.
    Does this sound familiar.
    The other thing that comes to mind is a retired person - who doesn't have to go to work, could sit on one frequency all night long and throw anyone else off that wants to use it - sounds a lot like the old CB days huh!

    My point being that hams with expensive radios should be more tolerant of hams with less expensive radios and using less power.

  2. #22
    Administrator N8YX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't really think that you need a sillyscope - because there is instructions - free - on the internet and in the owners manual of some models that explains how to align it.
    You need a 'scope to verify the VCO output (and wave shape) at the upper and lower ends of the tuning range. Merely measuring the loop error voltage (per the 'free' instructions) sometimes doesn't address proper PLL operation - especially true if someone has subbed the VCO tuning coil core for another with lower permeability in an effort to "broadband" the set. This holds true for ANY synthesized rig, not just RCI's product line. The one I repaired required inspection with a 'scope as the amplitude was jittery at the edges of the tuning range, and the TX audio indicated something was in fact amiss.

    The truth to the matter is - if their big expensive radios has those expensive narrow filters and they are using them - you wouldn't hear their signal being so wide - because what it does on receive it also does on transmit. Just that they are too ignorant to know this.
    In the majority of cases, this is not true. For example: The Drake TR7 sitting here in my shack exclusively uses its "stock" 2.3KHz SSB filter when transmitting - regardless of mode, and regardless of which filter is switched into the receiver chain - you can install and select up to three accessory filters.

    Similarly, a TS-940S here routes its SSB IF TX energy through a dedicated 2.4KHz B/W, 6-pole Murata unit. A TS-130S and TS-440S also use this scheme, albeit through a lower-quality 4-pole Murata unit. (There is a fix for this which will actually clean up the TX B/W a bit and it involves swapping the stock 4-pole unit for a 6-pole with steeper skirts.)

    However, some Icom rigs follow the "narrow filter on TX" paradigm, switching in whatever narrow SSB filter the operator has installed. My IC-751As are configured thusly from the factory, and that's going to get corrected next time I have the opportunity to open their cases. Their stock FL-44A SSB filters aren't overly wide and net me good audio reports...one doesn't need to go narrower (or wider, for that matter) especially when running in 'war mode'. Which is a subject fit for another thread, but I digress.

    My point being that hams with expensive radios should be more tolerant of hams with less expensive radios and using less power.
    Operator skill coupled with wise shopping when looking for a rig can do much to make up for the difference.

    Using the Ranger as an example:

    A new RCI-2995 goes for around $550. All-mode; coverage is 10 and 12M. 100w+ out. A very basic set of controls; nothing of an interference-reducing nature besides a noise blanker is included. Adjacent channel rejection is...well...not that great.

    A used IC-751A (one of a very few rigs to get a consistent 5.0 rating on Eham) can be had for around $100 less. Throw another c-note at the rig if it doesn't have an accessory BB-RAM memory board (Piexx, Nardo, WillcoElec) and you'll have an all-mode, all-band, 100w rig which for all intents and purposes is bulletproof. It incorporates a very effective IF shift and notch filter, a good noise blanker and gives its operator the ability to install accessory filters that are tailored for the intended use. What filters Icom won't provide, Inrad will.

    It doesn't have DSP? BHI makes a board for that. Use the 'Speech' button to activate the NR function and select the level. I did a writeup in the 'Mods' section of IoMH which details the process for an R-7000 receiver, and it can be duplicated for the R-71A, IC-751, etc.

    There are a number of good choices besides the '751 in the used gear market which can be had for a price which won't break the bank...and are capable of holding their own on a crowded band.

    Speaking of those interference-fighting features - if they're used incorrectly, they'll add to the problem instead of eliminating it. A noise blanker with too aggressive a threshold will distort a desired, weak signal (sometimes to the point of its being unintelligible) if a strong station is within the blanker's passband. Improper use of the AGC and manual RF Gain controls is another bugaboo which hamstrings many when operating on a crowded, noisy band: The best way to use these features is to turn the AGC 'off' then reduce the RF Gain until the desired signal can be clearly copied without desense or distortion from adjacent signals.
    "Everyone wants to be an AM Gangsta until it's time to start doing AM Gangsta shit."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ6BSO View Post
    Apparently, the Magnum 257 is the same radio as the HTX-10, with upgrades, and has the advantage of still being in production.
    Different CPU, and you get locked channels with the 257 (Plus, less filtering). Albrecht makes the direct replacement for the HTX-10.
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  4. #24
    Whacker Knot WØTKX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8YX View Post

    It doesn't have DSP? BHI makes a board for that. Use the 'Speech' button to activate the NR function and select the level. I did a writeup in the 'Mods' section of IoMH which details the process for an R-7000 receiver, and it can be duplicated for the R-71A, IC-751, etc.
    So now that you have been using it for a while, how do you like the listen-ability of the BHI filter? I've been very tempted to get the amplified one and install it in a speaker that can be used on any radio in the shack. $pendy.

    I've heard other audio DSP's and still use an MFJ-784B sometimes, esp with older rigs. On SSB the MFJ helps only a little, with some of that "underwater" effect which does not bother me much. The most effective DSP NR I have is in the Flex 3000... but it's rough to listen to for very long, "crunchy" sounding. It's not an audio DSP either.
    Last edited by WØTKX; 08-02-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WØTKX View Post
    So now that you have been using it for a while, how do you like the listen-ability of the BHI filter?
    Good question - I haven't gotten around to buying one yet but the specs look impressive. And it's a noise reducer only, unlike my SGC ADSP2 units which incorporate an auto-notch and selectable SSB/CW filter curves. (Those features actually come in handy in the application where the SGC DSP assemblies are being used, but the extra features are overkill in a radio which already implements them in hardware.)

    As soon as I get hold of a BHI unit and install it in either an R-71A or IC-751A I'll do a writeup.
    "Everyone wants to be an AM Gangsta until it's time to start doing AM Gangsta shit."

  6. #26
    Conch Master W7XF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KB3LAZ View Post
    You are welcome. Btw, I do currently own the ProIII which over my other modern rigs I do favor. That being said I have used both the Yaesu 2000 models and the kenwood and still find them fair and in some aspects above par. The kenwood is compromised in some ways but is also a jack knife so to speak and more of a full size jack knife in comparison to that of the 7000 (which I also own).

    Tbh in its price range the Kenwood TS-2000 is in my opinion still one of the best deals offered for instant on the air access and all around flexibility.

    If by any chance you can go to an AES, HRO, or what not to test drive the rigs available today I would highly suggest it. Sometimes the littlest things such as ergonomics can decide a purchase as well. If it is uncomfortable to operate sometimes it just becomes frustrating.
    Travis... I did just that when I was out to buy my new radio. And, although, you are correct with saying that the TS-2000 is a very good value, unfortunately I found that its receiver is sub-par, compared to both the FT-857 and IC-7000. The IC-7000 wins out with its superior OEM filtering, whilst the FT-857, although its receiver is on par with the 7000 in sensitivity, seriously lacks noise abatement. I tried all 3 radios at HRO, using the same frequency (monitored the OMiss Net on 14.290) and same antenna. Needless to say, one can figure out which radio I bought. (IC-7000)
    Encrypt everything. Even if you have nothing to hide. It increases the noise floor.

  7. #27
    Administrator N8YX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W7XF View Post
    I tried all 3 radios at HRO, using the same frequency (monitored the OMiss Net on 14.290) and same antenna.
    I would really like to see ham-equipment dealers include DZ-Kit's, Elecraft's and Ten-Tec's various offerings in the comparison lineup just so folks could get an idea of how they stack up against various Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu and Alinco HF products. Given certain operating parameters and band conditions, "high performance" may not matter as much as "low price" to some operators. An 'almost as good' rig which costs half (or a third) as much as the cutting-edge competition they've been reading so much about just might be the ticket...
    "Everyone wants to be an AM Gangsta until it's time to start doing AM Gangsta shit."

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