World War II-era navigation system shut down

[WØTKX]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/02/08/l...iref=polticker

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years, Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a backup.

Supporters also argue that the mere existence of Loran makes the GPS satellite system a less attractive target for cyber-thugs, terrorists or future military adversaries.

GPS systems today are used not only for navigation, but also to provide precise timing for ATM machines, cell phone towers, water plants and other enterprises, and positioning information for precision-guided weapons for the military. GPS disruptions can be costly to business, dangerous for travelers, and debilitating to the military.

Supporters of Loran -- short for long range navigation system -- say the system is a near-perfect backup because it provides similar information to GPS, but has dissimilar infrastructure.

[N8YX]

All it's going to take is for China to loft a space capsule full of decent-sized steel balls into a retrograde orbit at the same distance that our GPS satellites use...and you can kiss the the majority of our military's weapons-guidance systems goodbye.

Ditto the lion's share of our aircraft, shipping (commercial and military alike) and anything else which relied on Loran as a backup navaid.

...shuffles off to dig out an old sextant from the spares locker...

[KC2UGV]

All it's going to take is for China to loft a space capsule full of decent-sized steel balls into a retrograde orbit at the same distance that our GPS satellites use...and you can kiss the the majority of our military's weapons-guidance systems goodbye.

Ditto the lion's share of our aircraft, shipping (commercial and military alike) and anything else which relied on Loran as a backup navaid.

...shuffles off to dig out an old sextant from the spares locker...

You do realize the satellites currently get peppered with pretty much the same thing daily, right? Except they get peppered with things traveling about twice the speed of a bullet.

[N8YX]

All it's going to take is for China to loft a space capsule full of decent-sized steel balls into a retrograde orbit at the same distance that our GPS satellites use...and you can kiss the the majority of our military's weapons-guidance systems goodbye.

Ditto the lion's share of our aircraft, shipping (commercial and military alike) and anything else which relied on Loran as a backup navaid.

...shuffles off to dig out an old sextant from the spares locker...

You do realize the satellites currently get peppered with pretty much the same thing daily, right? Except they get peppered with things traveling about twice the speed of a bullet.

Occasional impacts from small debris is survivable. Repetitive impacts from larger - say, half a kg or more - with a closing speed upwards of 8-10 miles per second isn't. Ergo, the comment about "retrograde orbit". It's the only practical way to ensure enough kinetic energy to do the job.

The effect is akin to heavily clothed, helmeted person being hit from 60+ yds by a standard shotshell filled with #10 shot vs a magnum load of #00 or larger buckshot at the same distance.

You'd survive the first. If the shooter is accurate, however, you won't survive the second.

[KA5PIU]

Hello.

I agree 100%, the GPS system is our ONLY system for a lot of things now.
But, I see a far simpler problem for GPS.
What if,,, The solar system created an "Event", a massive solar eruption, large enough to disrupt even power lines on earth?
This has happened in the past, no ill effect on plant or animal.
But, with the NavSTAR satellites that are in a near Low Earth Orbit and Would feel the effects of such an event the outcome could easily spell disaster.
Hams, however, would be happy, as conditions for DX would be excellent!

[N5RLR]

Maps. Helping mankind navigate for hundreds of years.

[N8YX]

Maps. Helping mankind navigate for hundreds of years.

Think "21st century minivan mom" could figure out how to hold one, let alone read it?

[N5RLR]

Maps. Helping mankind navigate for hundreds of years.

Think "21st century minivan mom" could figure out how to hold one, let alone read it?

Most likely not; if it isn't on her Blackberry/iPhone/Android/whatever, she's utterly clueless.

But, she can ask directions! Remember, this is what women do; we guys prefer to play Marco Polo.

* * * * * * * * * *

I wonder, though, how the Galileo system is going to be when it's finally fully operational. :think

[kb2vxa]

Oh Marco wasn't so dumb. He discovered lo mien, put tomato sauce on it and called it spaghetti. Next time she asks directions send her to lower Manhattan and smile.

[HUGH]

Maps. Helping mankind navigate for hundreds of years.

Yes, don't throw them away, buy more while they are still available.

All this global positioning stuff came to prominence whilst sunspot activity was at a minimum. It indicates that the politicians, decision-makers and their accountants have little or no technical knowledge.