how much VE fraud is there, anyway?

[n6hcm]

i was looking at a wish list for 2010 on eham and, of course, it's littered with "bring back the CW requirement" and "Testing to occur only at FCC Federal buildings eliminating the VE program and its fraud" ... my question is "is there really that much fraud in the VE program? i've only heard of one or two instances since i've been licensed (not all that much time) ...

[ad4mg]

i was looking at a wish list for 2010 on eham and, of course, it's littered with "bring back the CW requirement" and "Testing to occur only at FCC Federal buildings eliminating the VE program and its fraud" ... my question is "is there really that much fraud in the VE program? i've only heard of one or two instances since i've been licensed (not all that much time) ...

I am a W5YI VE, have been since 1992. I was part of a large VE team (now disbanded) here headed by Dow, WA4HMX, and Darlene, AC4VE, and the integrity of the group was without question. There were ARRL VE groups operating in the area at the same time, and I never heard an ill word spoken of them either.

It seems to me that the isolated incidents given so much attention are the exception to the rule. I firmly believe VE teams are, for the most part, impeccably honest people who follow the rules very carefully.

[W3WN]

i was looking at a wish list for 2010 on eham and, of course, it's littered with "bring back the CW requirement" and "Testing to occur only at FCC Federal buildings eliminating the VE program and its fraud" ... my question is "is there really that much fraud in the VE program? i've only heard of one or two instances since i've been licensed (not all that much time) ...

Has there been fraud in the VE program? Yes.
Is it widespread, or frequent? Not that we know of.

Most of the incidents I've heard of have been isolated, and have been few and far between. Like many other claims made by certain recalcitrants on the eHam and QRZ boards, or various ham radio email reflectors, there is little actual data from the last ~25 years to back up their claims... especially when compared to the tens of thousands (or more) of test sessions that have taken place since the FCC bailed out of the examination business.

The bottom line is that the FCC has no plans to resume amateur (and other) examinations, cost being the biggest factor. It's an expense that they haven't budgeted and have no plans to budget... or do we really want to revert to paying a testing fee to cover their costs?

And do we really want to go back to quarterly (or less) testing in one city in a region? During a work day?
And do we really want to eliminate places that don't happen to have "federal" buildings... could you imagine holding a work day all day test session in the back of the local post office?

For all their complaining, these clowns really don't think things through.

BTW, how much do you want to bet that most of the "fraud" complaints cited involve ARRL VEC sessions?

[WX7P]

BTW, how much do you want to bet that most of the "fraud" complaints cited involve ARRL VEC sessions?

Haven't the vast majority of complaints been against W5YI sanctioned groups?

[KJ3N]

BTW, how much do you want to bet that most of the "fraud" complaints cited involve ARRL VEC sessions?

Haven't the vast majority of complaints been against W5YI sanctioned groups?

Yes.

[W3WN]

BTW, how much do you want to bet that most of the "fraud" complaints cited involve ARRL VEC sessions?

Haven't the vast majority of complaints been against W5YI sanctioned groups?

Yes, which is my subtle point. Most of the people complaining have a tendency to try and pin anything wrong that happens on the League, regardless of the facts of the matter.

[ad4mg]

BTW, how much do you want to bet that most of the "fraud" complaints cited involve ARRL VEC sessions?

Haven't the vast majority of complaints been against W5YI sanctioned groups?

I'm W5YI VE-13248, of the Dark Side.

Be afraid ...

There were quite a few complaints against W5YI groups, especially those in Puerto Rico. I still insist that the ratio of honest to dishonest VE's & VEC's is comparable to any segment of society.

[n0iu]

Oh yeah, let's go back and let the FCC do the testing. Like there is no fraud or corruption in the federal government!

I found this on The Monkey Cage: http://www.themonkeycage.org/2009/03/post_177.html

From the responses of more than 200,000 federal employees, the OPM calculates agency-by-agency scores on four dimensions: leadership (which indicates how favorably employees of an agency regard their leaders), performance (which indicates the extent to which employees believe their agency promotes improvements in processes, products, and services), talent (which indicates the degree to which employees think their agency has the talent needed to achieve its goals), and job satisfaction (which indicates how satisfied employees are with their jobs). In the 2008 survey, the results of which were released a couple of months ago, 37 agencies were rated.

In terms of leadership, the FCC ranked 29.
In terms of performance, the FCC did a little better at 25th place.
In terms of talent, the FCC did quite a bit better coming in at 19.
In terms of job satisfaction, the FCC ranked last, DEAD LAST!!!

Combining the four sets of scores into a single standardized score produces the following:

The FCC ranks 32 out of 37!

That's what we need, some guy who really REALLY hates his job giving amateur radio tests. The FCC pretty much consistently ranks as one of the poorest run federal agencies. I'd trust the VE system of private volunteers over paid federal employees any day!

[suddenseer]

I was a ARRL ve I think my credentials have expired due to non participation. I also have W5YI VE credetials as well, both sice 1994. I was the contact VE for a local conbined 2 club group for 5 years. I was unaware of any fraud, but had 3 complaints from sore losers.
Both VEC's backed me, and the other 2 VE's who were responsible. One of the sore losers confronted W5YI at Dayton Hamvention. I burned out from the 8x a year hassle. I quit.

The old farts who bitched about the demise of spark gap also did not consider a VE examined ham to be a real ham. VE's have been around forever. I got my novice from a VE. Back then any General class or higher over 21 years old could give the novice exam. The written exam was mailed to them. They administered the receiving, and sending code test. They broke the seal on the exam envelope like a big deal, and handed you the exam, and answer sheet. When you were finished, they placed it in the mailing envelope. Then you had to wait 6-8 weeks for a license, or a failure letter in the mail.

I would be curious if there is any data of FCC exams by federal employees that were fraud stained? There was a time when at Federal buildings, and post offices, the exams were conducted by post office employees. I am not sure if they graded them.

I just remembered a very caustic ham who would tie up local vhf repeaters a while back. He seemed to go out of his way of being anti social, and anti establishment. He bragged about cheating on his codeless tech exam. He was one day ordered by the FCC to show up and retest at any non-W5YI VEC. I guess he complied. He dissappeared as well. I guess one should watch what they say on a repeater. I really do not think he cheated. He was just trying to piss people off (and succeeded).

Other than that I am not aware of any fraud in a VE exam that I was part of. I probably participated in several hundred exam sessions including several years at Dayton Hamvention. (it was a free ticket).

[N7YA]

Remember that its eHam...the central den of old guys complaining about everything under the moon and stars. I have seen only a few instances of a thread, no matter how friendly or innocent it is, not turning into a slugfest with trolls and over reactionary volleys being lobbed back and forth.

I stopped going there because i always know how a thread will turn out.