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I have noticed this as well.
Follow the money.
This is true. Simply put, alcohol contains less energy than dinofuel.
Yep, I always see an MPG drop with ethanol and also that gas they use in the wintertime. It's about 3-4 MPG here. Fact of life. Good to know about tho' so you don't think there's something wrong with your vehicle.
Buy expensive additives!
Now you know why (in part) food AND gas prices are on the rise.
It's also not good for any engine but small engines tend to suffer the most.
Look on YouTube for phase separation experiment and you will see why.
Not to mention that alcohol is water based. Mixing it with gasoline is like oil and vinegar dressing. You have to keep shaking it. A gross analogy but the point is clear.
It lands in the fly-over states, all of which are red. Amazing conundrum for the independent "get the gubmint outta my life" conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by N8YX
Where's the outrage? (asked with mulligan issued to our NJ friend who dared speak out about this)
Ask Michelle B. about farm subsidies in her family...
Speaking of gas, the gas here in Spain smells different. Almost like acetone. No clue why. Im not a chemist. I assume that smell is alcohol.
Follow your nose. It is more likely a distillate of petroleum than it is alcohol. Then again, I don't know what they do over there. They could be adding a contaminant to the alcohol before it is mixed so people don't try to drink it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB3LAZ
??????????????????????
No idea but the shit is rather powerful. It burns the hell out of my nose just to go the gas station. There are more than a few biodiesel stations here locally too. Its a shit ton cheaper too. 80 cents give or take per liter where as gas is 1.40€ per liter. Diesel is even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
My van runs on Diesel, but also on sunflower oil, Older design 2.5 Turbo diesel with prechamber and plunger fuel pump LOL.
Always funny in France to "tank" 5 or 6 5 liter bottles of sunflower oil, and top up with a gallon diesel...;) the looks on the faces of the french peeps are hilarious...
Did Kawasaki ever put that diesel bike into full production?
Im not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
Gas mileage does increase with non-ethanol gasoline.
Here is the crazy part, You have to consume more ethanol based gasoline than non-gasoline to go the same distance. Ethanol based gasoline produces more CO2 for the same distance as non-ethanol based gasoline. Ethanol based gasoline releases more CO2 to the environment than non-ethanol gasoline? Where are the AGW alarmists?
----
burning ethanol actually produces 54% more CO2 as global warming pollutant than gasoline due to the fact that ethanol has lower fuel efficiency.
http://www.intota.com/docs/ethanol-pollution.asp
BUT, and this is a big but, the CO2 from the ethanol part is carbon neutral.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
Octane (n-dodecane): C12H26 + 18.5 O2 → 12 CO2 + 13 H2O 18.5 x energy unitsQuote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
Ethanol: 2 C6H12O6 + 12 O2 → 12 CO2 + 12 H2O 12.0 x energy units
Because of the reduced mileage, you have to consume more fuel to go the same distance, which results in more CO2 release.
BUT the ethanol part is STILL carbon neutral.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
For example, to drive from point A to point B takes 18.5 energy units, creating 12 CO2 units, for non-ethanol gasolineQuote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
For ethanol fuel, you need 18.5 energy units, so 18.5/12.5 = 1.48 * 12CO2 = 17.8 CO2 units released to go from point A to point B
Ethanol fuel releases more CO2 than straight gasoline
THE ETHANOL PART IS STILL CARBON NEUTRAL!
But the net result is that more CO2 is released from burning fuel with ethanol.Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
The secondary effects most people miss....
In other words, ethanol based fuels release more CO2 into the atmosphere than straight gasoline.
The net result is a small percentage of carbon is released into the atmo from the ethanol, since 6 weeks prior, it was inside of a plant, and within 6 weeks, most of it will be back inside of a plant.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
And then someone will smoke said plant.Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
Hopefully :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KB3LAZ
I don't even know WTF you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
The effect is releasing 46% more CO2 into the atmosphere in ethanol added gasoline.
I'm sure you don't know WTF I'm talking about, which is why you should read more about climatology, ecology, and biology; before engaging in discussions related to carbon emissions; which is based wholly on sequestration and release rates.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
http://www.shadygamer.com/attachment...60-29-jpg.430/
I provided the numbers, did the equations that a 6th grader can understand, and YOU are the stupid-looking one.Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
Get educated!
I am not arguing with you on that one lone point. The overall effect is putting more CO2 into the atmosphere for the same driving distance with ethanol based fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
The crux of the matter isn't how much carbon we are adding to the atmo in an individual transaction, it's how much we are un-sequestering.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
Ethanol, un-sequesters carbon that was just sequestered a few months ago, and will be quickly re-sequestered.
Petrol, un-sequesters carbon that was previously not available to the system, and adds to the total carbon in the system.
Try running ethanol in a sport bike. I average 67 mpg with ethanol, closer to 80 without it.
So you finally get it and you say to yourself, "Oh shit! He was right!" But now if I wait, you put up some graphs from 2002.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
I think the additives are different. They may add an additive to add odor for safety purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB3LAZ
In the EU they have less alcohol (5%) than we do (10%).
They have to use blending agents and the blending agents are corrosive. This adds to the problems with alcohol... which is hygroscopic, so left to sit in your gas tank it will draw water from the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4CGC
Paul, he's saying that burning dino-fuel is releasing carbon that was sequestered long ago and would not be released today unless we burn it today. The CO2 from plant life is currently in a short cycle and would be released into the atmosphere the same whether we burn it now or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1LAF
Therefore, it is carbon cycle neutral.
As for the carbon neutrality of corn ethanol, strictly speaking, yes it is.
However, this doesn't take into account diesel fuel used for mechanized agriculture or CO2 released to make nitrogen fertilizer.
Food crop corn likely needs less CO2 because it's planted in crop rotation, versus fuel corn which is grown year after year on the same land.
Also, ethanol needs to be produced at an ethanol plant which also requires energy to run. Some of them run on coal.
It still however results in a net greenhouse gas reduction, but I hate the idea of burning coal to produce ethanol and it is still a pretty shitty fuel for most gasoline engines.
Food for thought and fuel for the discussion. :)
You are correct and I have dealt with this as it is the major reason carburetors foul up over the off season months unless the fuel is stabilized before being put away. Usually, Sta-Bil works pretty good but Sea Foam will also work OK. I didn't store the scooter this past year but I did the mower and I can say that the Sea Foam product worked in this capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by N2RJ
Late last Winter I was riding and stopped a gas station that was selling really good gas for a while. The scooter ran great on it. But this time, I got gas there and the scooter immediately started running poorly. What changed? The gas! I knew it was supposed to be up to E10 but this time it had to be more alcohol percentage wise. I found a seller that had 100% gas and the problem slowly cleared up. I broke down the carb and it looked like it hadn't been cleaned in a while even though it had less than 300 miles on it since the last cleaning. I clean it out and started reading about gas, ethanol and the problems associated with it. I read about a product called Star Tron and bought an 8oz bottle. That little bottle will treat 128 gallons of gas. Been running it ever since. I'm not sure what it does, exactly, but the problems I've had in the past are non existent now. After about 500 miles I broke the carb down again and it was as clean as ''clean room'' specs.
Even though I bought that ''bad'' gas at a name brand station, it is privately own so I suspect they got whatever commodity fuel was the cheapest. These days I only get name brands at dealers that are known for their reputation to carry the specific brand of gas their logo states they are. Of note, about 4 years ago, Citgo gas was pretty damn good. These days, they carry commodity crap. You might not notice in cars with larger fuel injected motors but the smaller the motor and especially if it is running a carb, you may start to notice a drop off in performance and acceleration. EFI can compensate for things thus this is why you may not notice much until it's time to go back to the gas pump.
There's no avoiding E10 here unless you buy Avgas which has lead in it. It's also $6.50 a gallon. Yikes.
I'll continue to use marine formula sta-bil which is excellent for keeping out moisture. Sea-foam as a gas stabilizer? Had no idea. I have used it to clean out engines but never as a fuel stabilizer. Interesting.
Haven't tried star tron but I heard it's an enzyme based product.