So... HOA antennas...

My brother, a soon to be ham, is looking to get into ham radio. First question I ask (Since he's in FL) was: "Are you under an HOA?", and to my dismay, he replies in the affirmative.

He's got a single story house (Ranch style) I believe, so I'm curious as to what kind of antennas he should be looking at.

I figure, worst case, one of those MFJ apartment antennas, or a mag-loop. I'd really like to get him into building an antenna, and wire antennas are my favorite.

So, what's the likelihood of getting a wire antenna up (Assume no trees) that will perform rather well? Or, is the mag-loop a better idea?

I say fsck the HOA! Strike a blow for the freedom of radio amateurs everywhere—erect an 80' tower and put the biggest damned yagi you can find on it!

DEATH TO THE OPPRESSORS OF ANTENNAS! JIHAD!!

Does he have an attic? Get as much wire up there as possible. 3 dedicated dipoles for 40m, 20m and a 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 combo then a fourth with as much wire as he can afford to string up. As long as it's 100 watts or less and he takes proper safety and mounting precautions then all should be good.

Then look at a random vertical that runs up a tree, over the top and terminates halfway down the other side. Mount balun at base and feed there, bury coax after treating jacket with a weather proofing coating that stays on the surface of the jacket. Do not use a penetrating coating.

If there is interest in 6m, a simple 3 element beam resembles a basic TV antenna and will work at heights of 12 feet or whatever the regs are on outdoor TV ant mounting. VHF 2m beams can be mounted on the same mast with a TV ant. A vertical may need more stealth work. A fold-over mast would be OK if the intent was to simply work it at night.

Then of course, moving. There should be a lot of cheap, foreclosed property (sad really) in the great state of Florida. They kicked it into overdrive with the foreclosures.

Stop being rational, Charles. It's not nearly as much fun as wild-eyed radicalism.

—Osama bin Logperiodic

Outside of the Alpha Hotel, we strive to be less of an asshat.

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Originally Posted by KG4CGC

Outside of the Alpha Hotel, we strive to be less of an asshat.

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Yeah, yeah, okay. You're no fun anymore...

Seriously, a trapped dipole in the attic is a good way to go. Remember that the elements don't necessarily don't have to be run in a straight line for their entire length. It's okay to bend them to fit into the space.

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Originally Posted by KG4CGC

Does he have an attic? Get as much wire up there as possible. 3 dedicated dipoles for 40m, 20m and a 20, 17, 15, 12, 10 combo then a fourth with as much wire as he can afford to string up. As long as it's 100 watts or less and he takes proper safety and mounting precautions then all should be good.

Then look at a random vertical that runs up a tree, over the top and terminates halfway down the other side. Mount balun at base and feed there, bury coax after treating jacket with a weather proofing coating that stays on the surface of the jacket. Do not use a penetrating coating.

If there is interest in 6m, a simple 3 element beam resembles a basic TV antenna and will work at heights of 12 feet or whatever the regs are on outdoor TV ant mounting. VHF 2m beams can be mounted on the same mast with a TV ant. A vertical may need more stealth work. A fold-over mast would be OK if the intent was to simply work it at night.

Then of course, moving. There should be a lot of cheap, foreclosed property (sad really) in the great state of Florida. They kicked it into overdrive with the foreclosures.

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Ya know, I totally forgot about 6M, and that can be gotten away with, thanks to PRB-1 :) I think he has a crawl space, if not an attic. Should be able to get something in there, me thinks. I can help him build it when he comes to visit, and viola! He can bring it home and get his rug rat to help install. She's 3, should be able to help I think, as it's never to early to start :lol:

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Originally Posted by KG4CGC

Outside of the Alpha Hotel, we strive to be less of an asshat.

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We do? :chin:

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Originally Posted by KJ3N

We do? :chin:

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Sometimes :)

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Originally Posted by KJ3N

We do? :chin:

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Charles is no fun anymore. Big, wet blanket, that guy.

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Originally Posted by KJ3N

We do? :chin:

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As the Island BT, I have a responsibility to our Islanders as well as potential Islanders.
Nevermind, I can't keep a straight face through that.

Are there any trees of decent size? A small skinny wire may never be noticed. And of course, flagpoles work.

I have just purchased a Tarheel 400 A screwdriver antenna. Many HOA impaired hams set one up, use it, take it down. Radial wires could be left in place, though you need fewer of them if they are elevated.

Nothing is a problem with the sufficient application of funds. :mrgreen:

I'd like to know what the goal is first. Is it to work DX? Chat been NJ and FL? What's the motivation for getting into HR?

Attic antennas do work, but since they are generally not very high, the TOA will be quite steep. Usually not conducive to working DX, and depending on the distance you're trying to cover, not effective beyond local communications.

I would tend to put as much wire as I could around the perimeter of the attic and couple that to some sort of remote tuner like an SGC. It would be multi-band and on the higher bands could benefit from gain lobes at certain points.

A somewhat long document at the SGC website gives a lot of suggestions for stealth antennas. It's really worth the read.

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Originally Posted by KJ3N

I'd like to know what the goal is first. Is it to work DX? Chat been NJ and FL? What's the motivation for getting into HR?

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This is good advice. I hadn't bothered to ask the "why" part... Maybe a singular vertical for 10M in the back yard will suffice... I have to ask him that, or force his arse to get over here and start asking himself. He's already registered here :)

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Attic antennas do work, but since they are generally not very high, the TOA will be quite steep. Usually not conducive to working DX, and depending on the distance you're trying to cover, not effective beyond local communications.

I would tend to put as much wire as I could around the perimeter of the attic and couple that to some sort of remote tuner like an SGC. It would be multi-band and on the higher bands could benefit from gain lobes at certain points.

A somewhat long document at the SGC website gives a lot of suggestions for stealth antennas. It's really worth the read.

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I'm pretty sure that's the route I was going to go with him: Get as much wire in the air as possible. I was thinking on the outside of the roof, with a tuner of some sorts. Don't want to shock him away with prices too soon :lol:

it would be possible to build a 24ft vertical in the back yard. covering 10-40 or he could toss down some brick dough http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.a...artNo=HUS-6BTV (iirc the 6btv is 25ft) and toss down a shit load of ground radials.

i doubt anyone would notice it in the back yard.

Fiberglass flag poles have often been used to hide a vertical antenna inside. There was a very good QST article about one guy doing exactly that just a few months back. The guy bought a 28' pole and mounted it to a tilt base he home-brewed out of steel angle. He ran a wire up the inside and connected it to an SDG auto tuner mounted on the base, which was then hidden by some shrubbery. The radials and the feed line were buried and he even flew a flag from it to complete the camouflage job. There's no way you'd ever know it was an antenna just by looking at it.

Have him run a vertical using magnet wire. He'll be lucky to see it himself, knowing where it is, if he uses something like 28ga. wire. Put a coil of it in some vinegar briefly to blacken it a bit. It'll handle a barefoot rig no problem.

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Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

Fiberglass flag poles have often been used to hide a vertical antenna inside. There was a very good QST article about one guy doing exactly that just a few months back. The guy bought a 28' pole and mounted it to a tilt base he home-brewed out of steel angle. He ran a wire up the inside and connected it to an SDG auto tuner mounted on the base, which was then hidden by some shrubbery. The radials and the feed line were buried and he even flew a flag from it to complete the camouflage job. There's no way you'd ever know it was an antenna just by looking at it.

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You can do the same with a ?-BTV, I'd recommend the 5 because the 40m capacity hat gets deleted with the addition of 30m. It all fits nicely inside PVC.

what does the HOA say? it's entirely possible there's no prohibition ... or a prohibition that's easier to work with.

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Originally Posted by n6hcm

what does the HOA say? it's entirely possible there's no prohibition ... or a prohibition that's easier to work with.

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The problem with that approach is once you ask them and they say NYET then they start watching every move you make making it harder to "sneak in" any kind of antenna... What these stupid HOA's don;t understand is that they are only making things worst for themselves with their stupid restrictions. Whgile they may dfeny a person an outdoor antenna the person still has a legal right to operate. And when the operator is forced to use less efficient hidden antennas that are often mounted at low altitudes the chances for RFI increases accordingly.

Another option... move somewhere where there are no HOA's.

I'd rather live in a "slum" than put up with an HOA.

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Originally Posted by WØTKX

I'd rather live in a "slum" than put up with an HOA.

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Same here. Hence, my QTH on the Islets of Langerhans.

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Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

Same here. Hence, my QTH on the Islets of Langerhans.

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Good thing you've got the Antelope Freeway.

And FWIW, if you know of someone in the Commonbroke, er, Commonwealth of Pa who is having antenna issues, tell them to contact K3AIR. Mike's good. Just ask W3YNI.

Florida has some the worse covenents in there neighborhoods you can imagine. Not good.

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Originally Posted by W3WN

Good thing you've got the Antelope Freeway.

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Nope. The Ol' Antelope is up in northern Los Angeles County, almost 150 miles away.

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Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

Nope. The Ol' Antelope is up in northern Los Angeles County, almost 150 miles away.

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That's a real highway? And I thought it was a figment of a demented imagination... and I mean that in a good way.

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Originally Posted by W3WN

That's a real highway? And I thought it was a figment of a demented imagination... and I mean that in a good way.

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It's real. The Antelope Valley Freeway, State Route 14, runs from Santa Clarita to Palmdale. I could never pass the road signs for it on Interstate 5 without laughing: "Antelope Freeway, 1/4 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/8 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/16 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/32 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/64 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/128 mile..."

Most of the places mentioned in those old Firesign Theater plays were real locations somewhere in or around Los Angeles. I've even been to the intersection of Pico and Alvarado.

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Originally Posted by KG4CGC

As the Island BT, I have a responsibility to our Islanders as well as potential Islanders.
Nevermind, I can't keep a straight face through that.

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Ive been refered to as the Island Bassman...i guess im the Island BM. Charming...and a little gross.


As for the antenna. My new house has a douchebag HOA...none of my new neighbors like them, and its the 4th HOA since the complex was completed in 2004. I currently have a general dipole up at the rental house im living in, and with the tuner, i can get an excellent SWR from 40 to 10. I can even do 80 but it gets really sensitive. Either way, i am going to try for the same set up in the new place.

The shack will be in the upstairs office that my wife and i share. Between the office and the back yard is the livingroom, it has a vaulted ceiling thats really nice, but theres no way my 6', 220 lb frame is fitting through that tiny attic space so i have to devise a barrier for the office window to run the coax through. I plan to put white duct tape on the cable from the window to the overhang so its less visible for the Nazi...i mean, HOA when they do their twice a week weed patrol. Then its going to run the length of the overhang, tucked out of sight...no holes cut in the drywall. Its going to run up to a balun at the peak of the roofline in the back. From there, the white enamel wires will run back down the overhang on both sides to the corner, then down to the block wall from there. Im also elevated and far from power lines on the very edge of town, facing NE. I never go above 100w, and its mostly CW anyway, its a cleaner mode. Ive not had a single complaint with the set up here in all the years ive been here.

This set-up should work and lets hope nobody gets all heady. My neighbors seem cool, ill just ground well, run filters and tell them im only an SWL if they ask. :liar::yes:

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Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

It's real. The Antelope Valley Freeway, State Route 14, runs from Santa Clarita to Palmdale. I could never pass the road signs for it on Interstate 5 without laughing: "Antelope Freeway, 1/4 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/8 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/16 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/32 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/64 mile. Antelope Freeway, 1/128 mile..."

Most of the places mentioned in those old Firesign Theater plays were real locations somewhere in or around Los Angeles. I've even been to the intersection of Pico and Alvarado.

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I think you're all bozos on this bus.

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Originally Posted by N7YA

Ive been refered to as the Island Bassman...i guess im the Island BM. Charming...and a little gross.


As for the antenna. My new house has a douchebag HOA...none of my new neighbors like them, and its the 4th HOA since the complex was completed in 2004. I currently have a general dipole up at the rental house im living in, and with the tuner, i can get an excellent SWR from 40 to 10. I can even do 80 but it gets really sensitive. Either way, i am going to try for the same set up in the new place.

The shack will be in the upstairs office that my wife and i share. Between the office and the back yard is the livingroom, it has a vaulted ceiling thats really nice, but theres no way my 6', 220 lb frame is fitting through that tiny attic space so i have to devise a barrier for the office window to run the coax through. I plan to put white duct tape on the cable from the window to the overhang so its less visible for the Nazi...i mean, HOA when they do their twice a week weed patrol. Then its going to run the length of the overhang, tucked out of sight...no holes cut in the drywall. Its going to run up to a balun at the peak of the roofline in the back. From there, the white enamel wires will run back down the overhang on both sides to the corner, then down to the block wall from there. Im also elevated and far from power lines on the very edge of town, facing NE. I never go above 100w, and its mostly CW anyway, its a cleaner mode. Ive not had a single complaint with the set up here in all the years ive been here.

This set-up should work and lets hope nobody gets all heady. My neighbors seem cool, ill just ground well, run filters and tell them im only an SWL if they ask. :liar::yes:

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Personally I wouldn't care if I caused them TVI/RFI. Not that I like causing it and I would use the lowest power nessesary and the best filtering I could, but, when they come to complain about it I can have the pleasure of telling them that because your rules force me to have an antenna hidden indoors and close to the ground where it is in close proximity to all their TV's, computers, and what nots instead of up and away from it all then they'll just have to accept the interference as per part 15 compliance of home electronics devices. If they bring the FCC into the fray I'll simply explain to the FCC that I have done everything in my ability to reduce RFI, I run the lowest power level needed and, I have tried to re-orient the antenna into a better position but that the HOA insists that I keep my antenna as low and as close to the home electronics as possibly. Thus it is the HOA that wants to maximize RFI levels and RF exposure.

No. 26 magnet wire is invisible and works good as an antenna. If there are convenient trees around, that, a ground (and a cold water pipe will do nicely in a pinch) and a tuner will do just fine.

Attic dipoles are also good for the bands you can fit. I'd say use a balanced doublet with a matchbox.

And, if all else fails, a mobile antenna on the car with feedline run into the house can ALWAYS be done, as in, hide it in plain sight!

Done all three of those and worked my share of DX & stateside rag chews & contests with fun results.

And about any possible TVI. Probably no problem, especially in this day of cable and digital TV. In any event, with SSB or CW, there's no way anyone'll know if it's you, anyway. OTOH, AM can be problematical.

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Originally Posted by KG4CGC

Outside of the Alpha Hotel, we strive to be less of an asshat.

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:twisted::evil::stirpot::stickpoke:

Might consider moving the computer forum to the Alpha Hotel.

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Originally Posted by nx6d

I think you're all bozos on this bus.

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No, we're waiting for the electrician; or someone like him.

And remember, you ain't got no friends on the left (you're right!)!

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Originally Posted by W1GUH

And about any possible TVI. Probably no problem, especially in this day of cable and digital TV. In any event, with SSB or CW, there's no way anyone'll know if it's you, anyway. OTOH, AM can be problematical.

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In my case I'd be running AM. And anywhere within the 100 - 375 watt range. So I am sure they'd hear me on at least some devices.

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Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

I've even been to the intersection of Pico and Alvarado.

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but have you been to the corner of Sunrise and Sunset in Sacramento?

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Originally Posted by W5GA

but have you been to the corner of Sunrise and Sunset in Sacramento?

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No, but I've been to the corner of 5th Avenue & 6th Avenue. Only in Pittsburgh.

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Originally Posted by W5GA

but have you been to the corner of Sunrise and Sunset in Sacramento?

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That question comes up quite often. "Have you been to the Sac?"

Its advisable not to ask that on the first date.