Finally got to the USS New Jersey

Now I know what a battleship is like. Well...the parts I could see. Worthwhile trip if you want to see a Battleship.

Best pic is that new avatar -- Stained glass of Nipper listening to "His Master's Voice" in what looked like a clock tower on the old RCA plant right next to the New Jersey. It's now L3 Communication.

And...as repeated all over the country...the area where the ship is berthed is acres and acres of crumbling factories. The "park" itself is obviously "new development" of an "eyesore." Wonder what kind of great things were wiped out? What great art was gestating there? How many poor people were displaced?

If that's the building I think it is, it's one of the old RCA Tube manufacturing facilities. My dad worked there as a ceramics engineer (even though he was based at another plant).

He once got a letter from David Sarnoff himself (allegedly), congratulating him for being part of the team that had developed some new technology that RCA had gotten a patent for, thanking him for his hard work and best wishes for his continued work for the company in the future.

The letter came 6 months after the process had been shipped overseas, and Dad had been laid off.

I remember the day one of the battlewagons pulled in to San Diego for the first time since Vietnam, this would have been at some point in the eighties. The only time I've ever seen traffic on I-5 stopped without a traffic problem of some sort. Much more impressive visually than an aircraft carrier.

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Originally Posted by W5GA

I remember the day one of the battlewagons pulled in to San Diego for the first time since Vietnam, this would have been at some point in the eighties. The only time I've ever seen traffic on I-5 stopped without a traffic problem of some sort. Much more impressive visually than an aircraft carrier.

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Much more vulnerable, too. They are fascinating ships, but of a bygone era. They wouldn't last long in modern warfare where a (relatively) cheap air-launched missile could send it to the bottom in a matter of minutes.

We are likely still paying all that money spent back in the 80's to put them battle wagons back to sea and for what? Funny thing is Congress still holds one in mothball for the Navy Reserve Fleet, 'In Case It Is Needed," and I ask again for what?

"They wouldn't last long in modern warfare where a (relatively) cheap air-launched missile could send it to the bottom in a matter of minutes."

The last refit of the New Jersey took that into account, it has two radar based computer driven fire control MK 15 Phalanx guns and this is one of them.

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Originally Posted by kb2vxa

"They wouldn't last long in modern warfare where a (relatively) cheap air-launched missile could send it to the bottom in a matter of minutes."

The last refit of the New Jersey took that into account, it has two radar based computer driven fire control MK 15 Phalanx guns and this is one of them.

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Good reply to that comment.

The docent (tour guide -- really great guy, served on a destroyer in WWII) told us that the New Jersey only ever took a minor hit...I thin the casualty count was 1. So...obsolete? Maybe, but those babies survive and has awesome fire power.

The gun turrets are armored with 17" of steel. Maybe more importantly, the guys steering the ship up on the bridge are also inside 17" of steel armor. This ship had Tomahawk misslies, too. They could hit N. Dakota from Camden.

But the day was a serendipity for another reason. Yesterday just happened to be the day they hosted a Vietnam display and presentation from viet vets. The result was learning something about the military that, while I kind of sensed it, hadn't seen explicitly.

The first indication that this was going on is the music I heard waiting for the tour. It was total 60's hippie music. The song that stands out was White Room. I commented to the docent that, "Time was, you'd NEVER hear hippie music here." He replied that, yea, usually they play either military music or songs from Victory at Sea. As it turns out, my comment was inappropriate. After seeing the Vietnam display and presentation, I (well, DUH!!) realized that the reason for the music was it was Viet Nam day, and that IS the music of Vietnam. And the implied consensus amongst everyone, including our tour guide, was what a HUGE mistake that war was. It just could be that the military is one of those places where the war is no longer being fought -- the experience has been integrated into the whole of those who actually do our fighting for us.

So... I FINALLY got to see an M-16, and AK-47, an M-60, an M-79, and two field radios from Vietnam.

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Originally Posted by W3WN

If that's the building I think it is, it's one of the old RCA Tube manufacturing facilities. My dad worked there as a ceramics engineer (even though he was based at another plant).

He once got a letter from David Sarnoff himself (allegedly), congratulating him for being part of the team that had developed some new technology that RCA had gotten a patent for, thanking him for his hard work and best wishes for his continued work for the company in the future.

The letter came 6 months after the process had been shipped overseas, and Dad had been laid off.

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Being in that business so long, I've seen that happen over and over and over. Before I read the last sentence I was forming the question, "Did he get any money?", probably knowing full well the answer you supplied in the last sentence.

This is one of the ways that that business can really, really suck at times.

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Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

Much more vulnerable, too. They are fascinating ships, but of a bygone era. They wouldn't last long in modern warfare where a (relatively) cheap air-launched missile could send it to the bottom in a matter of minutes.

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Especially after Maggie's PMS (or attempt to screw ronnie), that is, the Falklands war, that sure would appear to be the case. We saw it happen in the S. Atlantic. But it's very possible that the defensive systems on something like the New Jersey would alter that equation. Don't really know.

Hello.

A battleship has been pretty much obsolete since the mid 60s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_bombing
A precision bombing run with nothing but the barrel of a tank, no explosives, dropped from 5000 feet will go through the hull of a ship and do so much damage that it will sink in a matter of minutes as it will have breached everything.
The preferred target is the engine room but any direct hit will sink the ship.
The bunker buster was developed as an offshoot of the work Dr. Bull did.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/25/ob...-arms-law.html
Chit happens when you piss of the Jews.

"After seeing the Vietnam display and presentation, I (well, DUH!!) realized that the reason for the music was it was Viet Nam day, and that IS the music of Vietnam."

Right, Viet Nam was the first rock and roll war so the "hippie music" in that sense was appropriate, just ask Adrian Cronauer. Trying to keep this short (;->) the New Jersey sat offshore out of the range of the shore batteries lobbing shells at them day and night until supplied were depleted, moved off to a tender for resupply and resumed position over and over. She saw her last action doing the same thing off Lebanon and Syria after the Marines barracks were bombed. After a tour with the Pacific Fleet her last mission was in the Persian Gulf, probably just to scare the hell out of them. She'll not be recommissioned due to being stricken from the Naval Vessel Register and transferred to a non profit entity in 1999 being replaced by the USS Iowa leaving it and the Wisconsin the two Iowa Class battleships in the Reserve Fleet.

Of special interest to hams the radio room is fully restored with fully functional Navy radios, switching and tuning equipment and the mounts once again bristle with antennas. A bit out of place looking is a new ham station and various wire antennas and all of it switchable giving guest operators of NJ2BB the choice of modern solid state gear or JAN tubes.

"But it's very possible that the defensive systems on something like the New Jersey would alter that equation."

No need to alter a false equation; Naval vessels round the world have been so equipped all along, arms sales is a profitable business. I don't quite understand the reference, the Royal Navy was so equipped and the flagship a bit more so, after all Maggie didn't want the bonny prince with the jug ears to come to harm now would she?

Upon posting I noticed Rudy jumped in ahead of me with his usual drivel.

"A precision bombing run with nothing but the barrel of a tank, no explosives, dropped from 5000 feet will go through the hull of a ship and do so much damage that it will sink in a matter of minutes as it will have breached everything."

Obviously you know nothing about the construction of a battleship. What makes you think it would penetrate an armored deck, several heavy steel decks and finally the hull after missing bulkheads, heavy equipment and since your preferred target is the engine room, steam turbines the size of a house? What makes you think that barrel wouldn't tumble and land sideways splat on the deck? Even with a lucky shot that by some miracle put a hole in the hull it would be minor damage the pumps wouldn't even notice.

"Chit happens when you piss of the Jews."

You must be piss of the Jews then, your posts are full of chit and that comment takes the cake. (Sorry I used your typo against you, NOT.)
(;->)

Hello.

The Vietnam era was one failure after another.
Marijuana must have been super common in that era, as nearly as a rule I could small a Vietnam vet!
I took off for Mexico and hung around Sinaloa, where the stuff was grown but not used, in fact it was not uncommon even back then to shoot people who were stealing the crops.
A far cry from stealing cattle, that was for sure.
The Vets did fragging, the Mexicans did protection, it was all the same.

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Originally Posted by W1GUH

Especially after Maggie's PMS (or attempt to screw ronnie), that is, the Falklands war, that sure would appear to be the case. We saw it happen in the S. Atlantic. But it's very possible that the defensive systems on something like the New Jersey would alter that equation. Don't really know.

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The H.M.S. Sheffield was mostly aluminum, and was a destroyer (think small). She wasn't sunk because of the awesome firepower of the Exocet missle...it never exploded. It did start a really nasty fuel oil fire after piercing the Sheffields completely unarmored side, and that was what did the Sheffield in.

The ARA General Belgrano was the former U.S.S. Phoenix CL-46, a pre-WWII era light cruiser that entered the fleet in 1938. She is the only ship ever to have been sunk as a result of warfare by a nuclear submarine.

An Iowa class battle ship would only need a few gallons of paint for repairs after an Exocet missle hit. These ships were designed to survive combat with other ships having 16" guns (HE projectile weighing 2300 pounds, AP projectile was 2700 lbs.) They were also designed to survive 6 simultaneous Mk 14 torpedo hits per side.

That was totally the impression I had after seeing and hearing what she could do. Thanks for the detail about the Sheffield.

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Of special interest to hams the radio room is fully restored with fully functional Navy radios, switching and tuning equipment and the mounts once again bristle with antennas. A bit out of place looking is a new ham station and various wire antennas and all of it switchable giving guest operators of NJ2BB the choice of modern solid state gear or JAN tubes.

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Only thing I couldn't do ( and forgot to mention so far) was see the hamshack. I saw the radio room, but the ham station was off in a private room & not publicly displayed. I asked if there were any members there & the answer was "yes", so I went back to the radio room and yelled in, but they weren't back yet. The only recognizable equipment I saw was an original HRO.

Hello.

The trouble with the idea of dropping a hardened tank barrel onto a battleship is that the Soviets did this, it works.
Simple guidance systems keep it erect and pointed on target.
And the reason it is so effective is the sheer kinetic energy that is concentrated in a small area and the fact that it is a pipe standing on end.
Remember that the US model, based on the Soviet model, can penetrate a bunker designed to withstand a nuclear blast. perhaps 30 feet of concrete reinforced rock.
It is a proven weapons system that has a 100% track record against all classes of ships.
One of the reasons the Soviets decided to expend more effort on smaller ships and submarines.
E-Systems had used this 100% kill reliability of ships to justify the building of the bunker buster without a prior model.

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Originally Posted by W5GA

The H.M.S. Sheffield was mostly aluminum, and was a destroyer (think small). She wasn't sunk because of the awesome firepower of the Exocet missle...it never exploded. It did start a really nasty fuel oil fire after piercing the Sheffields completely unarmored side, and that was what did the Sheffield in.

The ARA General Belgrano was the former U.S.S. Phoenix CL-46, a pre-WWII era light cruiser that entered the fleet in 1938. She is the only ship ever to have been sunk as a result of warfare by a nuclear submarine.

An Iowa class battle ship would only need a few gallons of paint for repairs after an Exocet missle hit. These ships were designed to survive combat with other ships having 16" guns (HE projectile weighing 2300 pounds, AP projectile was 2700 lbs.) They were also designed to survive 6 simultaneous Mk 14 torpedo hits per side.

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during operation desert storm an Iowa class battleship was struck by an exocet missile. no one was injured and it took about 20 minutes to repair the damage to the paint.

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Originally Posted by kb2crk

during operation desert storm an Iowa class battleship was struck by an exocet missile. no one was injured and it took about 20 minutes to repair the damage to the paint.

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Twenty-four hours into the ground campaign, Iraqis manning the Kuwait Silkworm missile sites fired two anti-ship missiles at Missouri. The first landed harmlessly between Missouri and USS Jarrett (FFG 33). The second, headed straight for Missouri, but was intercepted by two Sea Dart missiles from the British warship HMS Gloucester (D 96).

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http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/dstorm/ds5.htm Missouri was BB-63.

There were some smaller ships that suffered mine damage, however.