http://www.military.com/news/article..._todayinmil.nl
AMEN!
Water cannons work better.
So do bullets..
Not that I'd advocate such a thing.
...
This was wrong. While, I despise the members of the Phelp's cult; they are exercising their right to peaceably assemble, and then were assaulted. There is no reason for that.
I agree, but I'm not going to shed any tears if they get hurt. Any person assaulting them should be held accountable, but.. man.. how much fun would that be? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
Technically yes, it's wrong. No reason for it? We part ways there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
Bad taste and tackiness aren't outlawed by the Constitution.Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
Phelps is a cartoon. Ever seen the guy interviewed? He always has this little smirk when interviewed. This is all a game to him. He loves the attention.
His followers are the dangerous ones. Do they merit pepper spray? Absolutely not. The dope that sprayed the Westboro clown and rodeo show just gave them some martyr points. Dumbass.
The Westboro freaks should just be ignored, period.
Patrigots ( self proclaimed religious patriots but in reality bigots.)
Any religion preaches love and to be kind to all other humans, yes Islam too.
Seems they were sleeping while that part of the sermon was preached.
While anyone has the right of free speech and peacefull assembly.
They do not have the right to insult the fallen soldiers that defended their right to do so.
Nor insult and cause suffering to the family members burrying that soldier.
Nor calling upon their so called bigotted form of christianity to defend their "right" to do these monstrocities.
You can find the war illegal, but the ones sending the kids in the war are at fault, not the soldiers send in.
Here their reasoning fails and their right to do this should have been revoked a long time ago.
I think the right to have a funeral unmolested by disrespectful assholes trumps the right of disrespectful assholes to be disrespectful assholes at a funeral. At what point do you draw the line between "peaceable" assembly and those who are there to incite violence? Clearly, the Worstboro assholes incited violence. You can take the rest from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA5COR
+ zillion This post is spot on.
Hmmm.
Well, technically and legally, what was done was wrong. The Church and it's members have the right under the Constitution to peaceably assemble and protest just about anything, and so long as they are within their rights, they do not deserve to be assaulted. Even with pepper spray.
Personally, I would have used a couple of super soakers filled with different colors of kool-aid or similar beverage. Heaving water balloons would have been a lot more fun, but sometimes people run out of range and you end up missing.
That this cult is doing what they are doing is abhorrent, even if it is technically legal. It is akin to the Illinois branch of the National Socialist Party(*) demanding the right to march in Skokie... they are technically within their rights. But you also have the right to ignore them. That being said, though, to intrude on a grieving family to make a political point that is almost totally unrelated to the decease (save that the deceased was a member of the military) is sick.
(*)See also the National White People's Party vs. the Blues Brothers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoOZKjAjlk
Brandishing signs with offensive language on them (If I read the story correctly) seems, IMHO, to push the definition of "peaceable." But I so vehemently disagree with anyone who blames the people who are sent into harm's way instead of the people who send them that I'm not exactly dispassionate about that.
People have the right to be horse's tuchuses in public if they want to be. It's when they feel that their right to be public tuchus's outweighs your right to mourn that I have a problem. And just because someone doesn't like they way the public tuchus's behave or what the believe or disbelieve doesn't give them the right to assault the tuchus's.
There is no right to have a funeral unmolested by disrepectful assholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by N2KKM
Actually, every solidier who has fallen in American history has done so to secure the right for others to disrepect them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PA5COR
The WBC is a family of lawyers. All his family has attended or attends law school. The purpose of their actions is to get someone to react in such a way that they may file a lawsuit. That, is their M.O. and the motivation for what they do. They have been sued in court in return and they never keep more than $75K on US shores at any one time. The bulk of their financial collection is offshore.
Really? I think a funeral is a group of people exercising their right to peaceably assemble. It seems another group of people assembling in the manner that Westboro does, is an attempt to abridge the right of the people attending the funeral to peaceably assemble. We have two groups at odds, both claiming they have the right to peaceably assemble but one is deliberately attempting to disrupt the other. You tell me which group should have more of a right to peaceably assemble than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2UGV
Amen! Thank You and if a law was worded carefully enough, this type of disrupting behavior could be considered assault. I know that in my jurisdiction, yelling at a person will get you a simple assault charge, a night or two in lock up and a day in court not to mention all the related fines and what that will do to your name if you are seeking employment. My last employer's policy was to simply fire anyone who worked on the plant floor for being charged with anything stronger than a speeding ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by N2KKM
Where the right(s) of one party infringes on the right(s) of another group, these rights are null and void for that time and place.
If you want to bring over your message and want respect for it, you will have to EARN that respect by giving that same respect first.
The burial is meant to be disturbed with deliberate maximum grief put upon the family and others attaining the burial.
By disrespecting the soldier and family and where he fell for ( protecting their rights) they automatically lose their right.
As i said before, religious bigots.
I can cite a gaggle of bible verses that directly condemn their behavior, but it is not worth the trouble.
I can't be clearer on this.
Counter protests such as this one: "Wife Power" against "White Power".
http://www.neatorama.com/2007/09/03/...ked-kkk-asses/
Humor and parody used as a tool to peacefully counter ugly hate movements.
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_N...tboro_Protest/
http://www.advocate.com/uploadedImag...7-23/ROBIN.jpg
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/0...aptist-church/
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsall...1279836983.jpg
Sure....make a joke. hahahaha.....
But this magnet thing really confuses some people!! Have you no compassion??
“If you’re sitting at home in your undershirt, watching TV, worried about terrorism, and at the same time objecting to the person who’s putting their life on the line so that your family will be protected, then you’re the worst kind of fucking asshole there is.” - Seth MacFarlane (on gays in the military) on "Real Time with Bill Maher"
"............:chin:............You know what i havent had in a long time? Big League Chew!" ....Peter Griffin
Give them their right to protest. Just make sure that they are confined to protest pens located nowhere near the funeral. heck, they do it to anti-war protestes, Code Pink protesters, and World bank/IMF protesters. So why not here ?
The government is the only ones who are prohibited from interfering with protected speech. Both of the groups have a right to peaceably assemble. And, the government is the only ones prohibited from interring, as long as no other laws are being broken (ie assault, ie spraying another group with pepper spray).Quote:
Originally Posted by N2KKM
Again, I despise the Phelps clan, but they have every right to protest. I might not agree with a word they say, but I will defend to the death their right to say it.
Simple solution: Bury the fallen soldier far enough into the cemetery to require Rev. Dumbshit to go onto the property. Owner of cemetery then has Phelps & Co. arrested for criminal trespass. Then have the sheriff require cash bail, with sourcing statements. Not only do they have to tap the offshore accounts, law enforcement/IRS/ KS tax officials will then have the account numbers.
In my heart I want to agree with you Cor, but the infringement of one persons civil rights is an infringement on all, no matter how much I disagree with them and no matter how much I dislike them. And believe me, I really don't like these disgusting barbaric people.
OTOH, here, if a Law Enforcement Officer tells you to do something, and you ignore him or refuse, you are subject to arrest. They can make a complaint later, they can sue, but at that time, they must comply. They have no right to 'interpret' the officers order in any way, nor is it subject to argument. It may be arbitrary, but dems the breaks.
Then again, carrying signs like "Rot In Hell Wurtsboro Scum", "Phelps is a Fornicating Pig" "Phelps, come get your Ma's Panties" and "Phelps is Gay" might do the trick. The last one isn't an insult, but Phelps would think so. That's free speech too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA5COR
I was thinking signs along the lines of "Fred Phelps gives great head" "Fred Phelps is a pig fscker"...Quote:
Originally Posted by N2NH
Burials here are also protected under our law.
Not that we have those idiots here, but our law gives extra rights to burial processions, must be our Catholic/Lutheran background.
For a demonstration you need a permit, 99.9% of the time that permit is given, but I'm sure in this circumstance no permit would be given, any demonstrator ignoring the law would find himself in custody before he could blink an eye and have his sign up.
I think we differ in opinion here John, they are free to protest anywhere with their bigotry slogans but not near the funeral procession.
Doing that they infringe on the right of the people attending the burial.
Its simple....but funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RLR
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA5COR
Actually it's not a difference of opinion, it's a difference of law. The US and Canadian Constitutions guarantee citizens "Freedom to Assemble" (LINK). Then there's Freedom of Speech (LINK). Although I'm pretty certain this falls under 'hate speech' and is probably going to be interpreted as that as soon as they realize they don't care if you ignore them.
In fact, these Westboro cretins got their own mention in this article...they were banned from Canada.
The alternative is to change the Constitution, something that is unlikely. That would be extremely unpopular too. It would be like trying to remove the cornerstone of a building after it was built.
These Phelps people will fight, with all the power the law can grant them, for the ability to gather and pretend they arent gay and hating themselves for it.
Perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by WØTKX