Mickey Mantle's restaurant is about to be SK

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by W1GUH

It can be dangerous to start commenting when you're not embedded in the culture about which your commenting.

I you WERE, what you'd be seeing is that only the deep-pocketed huge chains are now able to start up new businesses here. They've got the $$$$$ that the greedy landlords know they can get from those businesses. And that shuts down and shuts out a LOT of mom & pop type operations. And, it probably true that those big $$$$$ chains are getting plenty of concessions from mikey. Even the 2nd avenue deli was close for a while when their rent was jacked up into the usurious nether regions. Finally re-opened in a smaller space at 33rd and 3rd.

---

^^^^ +10000000

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by n2ize

Actually that isn't true. Manhattan real estates and rents are through the roof. It is hard for many people to comprehend how much it costs to buy, lease, rent properties in Manhattan. I know a few business owners who had to leave Manhattan and move to the outer boroughs, or out of NYC altogether because, after decades, they could no longer afford to stay there. And all of them put painstaking efforts into being diverse, flexible, and , dare I say the word...trendy. One guy actually moved up to Rochester and he is doing quite well. The cost of rent/lease being a fraction of what it was costing to function in Manhattan. Had he stayed in Manhattan he would be bankrupt today. People I know who had affordable apartments in the Lower East Side could not afford to move back there today, despite the fact they are making much more money today.

So yes, food prices, regulation and high rent is more than enough to put you out of business for good in Manhattan. Unless you are a chain or unless you've got some big money behind you. Manhattan has become a playground for the rich. The cool people all crossed the bridge and are in Brooklyn these days. But for how long I don't know.

---

So, instead of adjusting your prices accordingly, you just bitch about the costs of business in an area where real estate prices are through the roof?

Good god! I understand the price issues in Manhattan. A 1000 sq ft retail space will easily set you back $17K/month (Starting, and that is for non-ground floor retail, which can easily fetch $35K/month).

So, instead of complaining about the cost of inputs, you do what every other business does: Raise prices, or move. This business wanted to do neither, so it failed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KC2UGV

So, instead of complaining about the cost of inputs, you do what every other business does: Raise prices, or move. This business wanted to do neither, so it failed.

---

Then people say "it's gotten too expensive!" and go instead to one of the chains that can afford to subsidize their outlets in high-rent areas with the profits from the ones located in less expensive places. The net result is the extinction of locally-owned businesses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

Then people say "it's gotten too expensive!" and go instead to one of the chains that can afford to subsidize their outlets in high-rent areas with the profits from the ones located in less expensive places. The net result is the extinction of locally-owned businesses.

---

People will, in fact, buy things (Especially restaurant dining) that are more expensive, as long as it's high quality; and given the proper atmosphere.

Case in point: 5 Star Restaurants that charge upwards of $200 per plate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KJ6BSO

Then people say "it's gotten too expensive!" and go instead to one of the chains that can afford to subsidize their outlets in high-rent areas with the profits from the ones located in less expensive places. The net result is the extinction of locally-owned businesses.

---

And, on the other hand, since Mick's is in Manhattan, and was started over 50 years ago, it was opened when Manhattan was a very different place than it is today. Real estate there was still reasonable. The issue here, is that Mick's got gentrified out of the neighborhood, and refused to move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KC2UGV

So, instead of adjusting your prices accordingly, you just bitch about the costs of business in an area where real estate prices are through the roof?

Good god! I understand the price issues in Manhattan. A 1000 sq ft retail space will easily set you back $17K/month (Starting, and that is for non-ground floor retail, which can easily fetch $35K/month).

So, instead of complaining about the cost of inputs, you do what every other business does: Raise prices, or move. This business wanted to do neither, so it failed.

---

That's the whole issue. An entire culture has been driven out of NYC because of high prices and greed. To many people who are not from NYC it doesn't matter NYC is just another one of many shitholes. But,. to those of us who grew up here, who lived here, and who developed an appreciation for the sense of culture and soul that the city has the loss of these places is difficult to adjust to, These things have meaning to us. It is where we grew up, it's what we remember, it's what we are a part of. It's not easy for us to simple say, "well fuck it", and it's all over.

Now I understand that times change, prices go up, and we all have to move on with the times and forget the past. I also understand that the purpose of a city is to generate revenue and not to cater to "feelings" or "culture" or "soul". I am willing to accept that and move on. But, guys like Paul and myself do have a right to say it is a shame. Especially when so much of the outlandish pricing and over-regulation, and the driving out of the middle class culture the art, the music, etc. has more to do with greed than just the natural progression of change with time.. I don't expect people to understand because It's the sort of thing where you would have to have lived here, grown up here and been a part of.it all over the years to understand. It would be sort of like if you were to tell me about the culture and atmosphere of Buffalo and how it has changed. I doubt I would really understand because I am not from up there so I can;t appreciate things about Buffalo that you might. Same thing with NYC and many of the great and uniique things that have been lost too time and, in many regards to greed and a "get rich quick at all costs" mentality that has thrown away some of the very good and wonderful things that have made NYC a great place in so many different ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KC2UGV

People will, in fact, buy things (Especially restaurant dining) that are more expensive, as long as it's high quality; and given the proper atmosphere.

Case in point: 5 Star Restaurants that charge upwards of $200 per plate.

---

The problem here is that they didnt start out doing this, they started out as a neighborhood place, affordable, etc...they established themselves with that base, thats the face they wear. Try to change that and its over.


edit....looks like you just said this, nevermind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by n2ize

That's the whole issue. An entire culture has been driven out of NYC because of high prices and greed. To many people who are not from NYC it doesn't matter NYC is just another one of many shitholes. But,. to those of us who grew up here, who lived here, and who developed an appreciation for the sense of culture and soul that the city has the loss of these places is difficult to adjust to, These things have meaning to us. It is where we grew up, it's what we remember, it's what we are a part of. It's not easy for us to simple say, "well fuck it", and it's all over.

---

And the patrons of the stagecoach inn where Mick's used to be, I'm betting felt the same way. They were being "driven out" due to these newfangled motor horses...

The culture of cities change, the develop. It's not a matter of saying,"Fuck it", it's a matter of adapting to today's time, and not expecting everything to stay the same for over half a decade.

Quote:

---

Now I understand that times change, prices go up, and we all have to move on with the times and forget the past. I also understand that the purpose of a city is to generate revenue and not to cater to "feelings" or "culture" or "soul". I am willing to accept that and move on. But, guys like Paul and myself do have a right to say it is a shame. Especially when so much of the outlandish pricing and over-regulation, and the driving out of the middle class culture the art, the music, etc. has more to do with greed than just the natural progression of change with time.. I don't expect people to understand because It's the sort of thing where you would have to have lived here, grown up here and been a part of.it all over the years to understand. It would be sort of like if you were to tell me about the culture and atmosphere of Buffalo and how it has changed. I doubt I would really understand because I am not from up there so I can;t appreciate things about Buffalo that you might. Same thing with NYC and many of the great and uniique things that have been lost too time and, in many regards to greed and a "get rich quick at all costs" mentality that has thrown away some of the very good and wonderful things that have made NYC a great place in so many different ways.

---

Gentrification is a feature of every city, and every neighborhood will face it eventually. It's the nature of the times changing. You might not like it at all, but neither did the residents of 5 Points, Freedom Tunnel, Alphabet City Squatters, et al.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KC2UGV

And the patrons of the stagecoach inn where Mick's used to be, I'm betting felt the same way. They were being "driven out" due to these newfangled motor horses...

The culture of cities change, the develop. It's not a matter of saying,"Fuck it", it's a matter of adapting to today's time, and not expecting everything to stay the same for over half a decade.



Gentrification is a feature of every city, and every neighborhood will face it eventually. It's the nature of the times changing. You might not like it at all, but neither did the residents of 5 Points, Freedom Tunnel, Alphabet City Squatters, et al.

---

The thing is that it doesn't have to be that way. There is no reason why a city can not remain affordable and still functional and profitable. . Gentrification can still happen but it can happen in a way that is not excessive and does not price people out of existence and destroy neighborhoods and destroy culture. . The problem is that there is over-gentrification driven by greed. That is unacceptable and should never be tolerated as par for the course. Trust me, a lot of residents are not happy with the excessive gentrification that is taking place. And I am not talking just about old folks I am talking about young folks and yuppies who don;t like it and who clearly see how it is ruining neighborhoods all over the place. We are not anti-progress nor anti-change. we don;t expect everything to last forever or to remain exactly the same for all eternity. Sure, some things change, some for the better. But that does not mean we have to accept change (gentrification) to the point where it tears apart neighborhoods and drives both people and businesses out of there homes. It does not mean that every legacy and everything that is good, cultural, and everything that makes a given city special and unique with its own special ambiance and charachter has to be destroyed in the name of profit. Because of this kind of greed our American cities are rapidly loosing their character, their culture, their flavour, their legacy. These may not seem important elements of a city but they are.

If this is allowed to continue all our cities will be replicas of each other. Vapid wastelands of corporate profiteering where it will make no difference if you are in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Atlanta, etc. they will all be unified and the same.

BTW there are neighborhoods where people have fought against excessive gentrification and won the battle. And those neighborhoods remain productive with a healthy tourist trade, a healthy business trade, along with locally run businesses and a communities of working people who pay taxes and patronize their own local businesses. But winning the battle against greed and excessive gentrification is not enough. The war is still raging and, you have to win the war. People in those neighborhoods are remaining diligent and prepared to fight further battles when the need arises. They don;t want the city turned into a vapid, trendy conglomeration of corporate chains and they have proved that is not necessary in order for a city to be functional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by W1GUH

Yes, Mickey was a very warmly loved favorite. His drinking a fault? Not for us to judge, really. He was having a good time, was (AFAIK) a great, happy, fun-loving drunk, and who knows? It's not clear if it was his drinking that did in his liver or not. Lots of people drink lots and lots and don't have that problem. Work hard, play hard - the credo of hard-working, talented people everywhere!

UGV:



Or principled enough to recognize that, in this case, "change with the times" means shit-canning the good stuff and exchanging it with consumer suburban mall plastic, meaningless bullshit where everybody pays to wear ads for the expensive clothes they wear.

---

^^^ Let's here it for Mick's, and lets salute the culture and the cool people of NYC. Those who have been driven away and those who are still fighting the good fight to preserve the culture and keep the vultures at bay. The englobulators may have won some battles but ultimately the cool folks will win the war and will take back their neighborhoods, 1 street at a time.