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Every hear of the True Blue DXers Club? https://www.tbdxc.net/
I was told about it a few months back. Looked it over, seemed to a group interested in operating DX (obvious from the name? well, that's not always the case) the right way, no shortcuts etc. Didn't see anything objectionable, so I applied and got in.
Haven't had time the last few months for much operating, so I haven't paid much attention to the group. Until this morning's email. "TBDXC Members and FT 8"
The gist of the email is this: Operating FT4/FT8 is against the ethos of the club. So anyone operating those modes... in any way... at all.. should not have qualified as a club member and should resign.
I don't operate any digital modes at the moment. I dabbled with PSK31 years ago, but nothing ever came of it. I don't have FT8 setup, I don't have time for it, and at the moment, no interest in it. I have nothing against the mode... I just have other interests.
Regardless, there was something about this email that just set my teeth on edge. Drawing this line in the sand? Either you're with us, or you operate FT8? Ridiculous. Absurd. Just not sitting well. But if that's what the leadership of this group wants? Fine.
I have little enough time for operating. I don't have time to deal with nonsense.
So as per the email (which I will post separately in a moment), I've told them to remove my membership.
Thoughts?
The email:
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Dear TBDXC members,
With considerable unease, we have to raise again on an issue which is guaranteed to create much controversy. We don’t like controversy, but we need to be honest with ourselves and, especially, with our membership.
The issue is that an increasing number of TBDXC members are very much active on FT8/FT4, and this is against the ethos of the Club as explained in the “join” section of the TBDXC website:
“Membership of the TBDXC entails your personal commitment to pursuing and promoting DXing specifically as a form of person-to-person amateur radio activity involving the use of radiotelegraphy (CW) or radiotelephony (SSB).
Therefore, if you enjoy FT8, or you use it ‘because there is nothing else’, or to work a new one ‘no matter how - just as long as I put it in the log’, we wish you all the very best in your ham radio activity, but the TBDXC is not the Club for you.”We therefore want to rephrase once more the key concepts, and to point out a couple of things which we thought were explicitly clear, but perhaps weren’t.
First, the TBDXC is a free association of like-minded people. It has no membership fees, and not even a formal membership, as it does not give members special status, rights or obligations.
Second, the TBDXC is a lose, informal association. It is not even, strictly speaking, an organisation – it has no governance, no formal management structure. The few decisions which are needed are taken by consensus among the very few individuals who help keep the initiative alive.
Third – going back to the essential point – the TBDXC is an association of people who like certain things, and do not like other things. Specifically, and critically, we like forms of amateur radio in which information is exchanged between humans and we do not like exchanging information between computers.
Fourth, the TBDXC as a Club is not “against” FT8. This has been said and repeated many times, but, yet again, this essential point is often misunderstood or ignored. Never, for example, we have taken a position on the inclusion of FT8 contacts in the mixed mode DXCC, or on the validity of DXpedition operations run by computers unattended by humans. Many members feel strongly about these issues, but these are their own opinions and not the Club’s. Not liking an activity means not engaging in it - it does not mean trying to ban it, or to prevent others from engaging in it.
We therefore have the unpleasant duty of appealing again to those current TBDXC members who are active on digital modes to consider resigning from the Club. We will never “police” our membership, nor we will ever point fingers at individuals. Can we please simply agree that there was a misunderstanding about what the TBDXC is, or that personal likes and dislikes have changed over time. This is perfectly acceptable and nobody will be thought less of for deciding to leave the Club. We simply want the TBDXC to be what it was intended to be: a free, lose, informal association of people who like SSB and CW, and do not like – and therefore are not active on – digital modes.
Kindly write to us at club@tbdxc.net – and, please, kindly be kind.
KG4CGC
11-03-2022, 08:40 AM
My thoughts: Politicization of modes. Polarization takes many forms. Screw them and all those who prioritize taking the fun out of something.
If it ain't fun don't do it. If it doesn't bring you joy and well being, it's time to go. Life is too short to join up with yet another brother banging his head against the wall. He's hurting himself and even if you feel the same way, your option is to simple not use those modes which do not bring you joy.
Sounds like they have declared war against any mode they don't like. This will only make those modes more attractive to others. Just like the War On Drugs has increased drugs in this country, their war on FT8 may well stir more interest in it.
People are a fucked up bunch
My thoughts: Politicization of modes. Polarization takes many forms. Screw them and all those who prioritize taking the fun out of something.
If it ain't fun don't do it. If it doesn't bring you joy and well being, it's time to go. Life is too short to join up with yet another brother banging his head against the wall. He's hurting himself and even if you feel the same way, your option is to simple not use those modes which do not bring you joy.
Sounds like they have declared war against any mode they don't like. This will only make those modes more attractive to others. Just like the War On Drugs has increased drugs in this country, their war on FT8 may well stir more interest in it.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "declaration of war", that's a bit strong. Nor do I think this group is big enough for it to piss off enough people. Otherwise I agree with you.
After reading that email, my first thought was "what next? A ban on D-104 mikes, or J-38 keys?"
I no longer feel welcome in that group. So I left and told them to take me off the roster. That's that.
KG4CGC
11-03-2022, 12:18 PM
A bit strong? Perhaps.
When reading the email, seems nice enough, right? However, with everything these days, like the Russian citizens used to say back when it was called the Soviet Union, aka CCCP, "We have learned to read between the lines."
Well, if it is a declaration of war... they're welcome to it. That wasn't what I signed up for.
And some of the people I know who are shown as members, let alone active members, use certain digital modes on a regular basis. (No, it's not my place to "out" them, so to speak.) They really feel this way about modes they use? A few choice terms come to mind.
KG4CGC
11-03-2022, 01:09 PM
"Your fist is too perfect. Your spacing too precise. Are you using a computer CW program?"
You know, not much difference between CW and digital, IMHO. It either is or it isn't. I mean, on/off. Dits, dahs and spaces. Almost, binary.
Received this reply email this morning...
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Dear Ron,
I don't know how else to explain this. I have tried in all possible manners, and still the message doesn't get through.
1. There are plenty of excellent DX Clubs.
2. Among those, one states very clearly and very explicitly that it was created for those horrified at the near extinction of CW and SSB activity resulting from the FT8 explosion.
3. People voluntarily sign up for this one Club because (we thought) they *like* CW and SSB and they *do not like* FT8. The Club asks NOTHING of them, except a commitment to operate according to their shared likes and dislikes.
Results:
- almost 50 TBDXC members have worked DXCC on FT8 in the first 10 months of 2022!
- every DXpedition is worked by plenty TBDXC members on FT8, on multiple bands.
- a lot of members are MORE active on FT8 than CW or SSB.
Now, you can understand what the real problem is. The Club is morally and intellectually bankrupt - that is the problem.
The occasional digital QSO - in whatever form - never was a problem, and never will be.
I hope this clarifies my state of near despair.
73 [ redacted ]
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The "occasional digital QSO" is not the problem? OK, sure, that's what I first thought.
Yet... "We simply want the TBDXC to be what it was intended to be: a free, lose, informal association of people who like SSB and CW, and do not like – and therefore are not active on – digital modes." sure seems incompatible with that "occasional" comment.
Nope. This is not a DX group for me. Not after this exchange.
(If I wanted to stay in a group that was "morally and intellectually bankrupt" I wouldn't have dropped my political affiliation last year, but that's a topic for another forum)
I thought the "True Blue" part smacked of trumpism attitude.
A psk31 pox on all their equipment.
This reminds me of why I swore to never join an amateur radio club ever again. Actually, not just ham radio clubs but any other sort of club.
Someone tried to get me to join a yacht club once and I told him that the very idea gave me hives. When it comes to internal politics, that crowd makes the ARC clowns look like a swell bunch of reasonable fellas.
I thought the "True Blue" part smacked of trumpism attitude.
A psk31 pox on all their equipment.
Nah. They're UK based.
I initially thought the "attitude" was just for show, just having a little fun with it. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more...
OK. If the organizers of this group are serious about sticking their noses in the air, their thumbs up their butts, and strutting around like the well to do on Park Avenue... I'm not interesting in Putting on the Ritz. I'm done with them.
Thought it would be fun. Guess not. Pity.
This reminds me of why I swore to never join an amateur radio club ever again. Actually, not just ham radio clubs but any other sort of club.
Someone tried to get me to join a yacht club once and I told him that the very idea gave me hives. When it comes to internal politics, that crowd makes the ARC clowns look like a swell bunch of reasonable fellas.
Going forward, just politely tell them that when it comes to joining organizations, you adhere to the immortal words of Marx.
No, not Karl Marx. Groucho Marx.
"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member"
The email:
-----------
Dear TBDXC members,
With considerable unease, we have to raise again on an issue which is guaranteed to create much controversy. We don’t like controversy, but we need to be honest with ourselves and, especially, with our membership.
The issue is that an increasing number of TBDXC members are very much active on FT8/FT4, and this is against the ethos of the Club as explained in the “join” section of the TBDXC website:
“Membership of the TBDXC entails your personal commitment to pursuing and promoting DXing specifically as a form of person-to-person amateur radio activity involving the use of radiotelegraphy (CW) or radiotelephony (SSB).
Therefore, if you enjoy FT8, or you use it ‘because there is nothing else’, or to work a new one ‘no matter how - just as long as I put it in the log’, we wish you all the very best in your ham radio activity, but the TBDXC is not the Club for you.”We therefore want to rephrase once more the key concepts, and to point out a couple of things which we thought were explicitly clear, but perhaps weren’t.
First, the TBDXC is a free association of like-minded people. It has no membership fees, and not even a formal membership, as it does not give members special status, rights or obligations.
Second, the TBDXC is a lose, informal association. It is not even, strictly speaking, an organisation – it has no governance, no formal management structure. The few decisions which are needed are taken by consensus among the very few individuals who help keep the initiative alive.
Third – going back to the essential point – the TBDXC is an association of people who like certain things, and do not like other things. Specifically, and critically, we like forms of amateur radio in which information is exchanged between humans and we do not like exchanging information between computers.
Fourth, the TBDXC as a Club is not “against” FT8. This has been said and repeated many times, but, yet again, this essential point is often misunderstood or ignored. Never, for example, we have taken a position on the inclusion of FT8 contacts in the mixed mode DXCC, or on the validity of DXpedition operations run by computers unattended by humans. Many members feel strongly about these issues, but these are their own opinions and not the Club’s. Not liking an activity means not engaging in it - it does not mean trying to ban it, or to prevent others from engaging in it.
We therefore have the unpleasant duty of appealing again to those current TBDXC members who are active on digital modes to consider resigning from the Club. We will never “police” our membership, nor we will ever point fingers at individuals. Can we please simply agree that there was a misunderstanding about what the TBDXC is, or that personal likes and dislikes have changed over time. This is perfectly acceptable and nobody will be thought less of for deciding to leave the Club. We simply want the TBDXC to be what it was intended to be: a free, lose, informal association of people who like SSB and CW, and do not like – and therefore are not active on – digital modes.
Kindly write to us at club@tbdxc.net – and, please, kindly be kind.
18051
One of the locals has been licensed for less than 3 years (General Class).
He just got 9BDXCC via FT8 a week or two ago. That is, everything from 160-10 with the exception of 60M. It, 6 and 2 are next on his hit list.
The mode is a huge draw for a number of people who otherwise wouldn't have gotten into amateur radio in the first place. I'd tell the officers of said "club" to stuff it.
I was a little politer about it, but... I did.
KC2KFC
11-12-2022, 12:32 PM
"I don't want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members."
-Groucho Marx
It amazes me how this hobby attracts a certain, type, of people.
I never took AR to be a haven for the mentally ill authoritarian meatbeating types, I suppose that's why we're here, to evade such nuttery.
Of course I am including myself in the mentally ill rank. Hurr duh durrr.
KG4CGC
11-12-2022, 04:06 PM
It amazes me how this hobby attracts a certain, type, of people.
I never took AR to be a haven for the mentally ill authoritarian meatbeating types, I suppose that's why we're here, to evade such nuttery.
Of course I am including myself in the mentally ill rank. Hurr duh durrr.
That's all groups. When you pile people together in a room, there's always one or two who want to tell all the others what to do and how to do it, unsolicited. Sometimes they can be quite nasty. Then you have the some of the others, let's call them "undecided voters", who want to hear what the nasty ones have to say. As if they didn't already make their intentions clear. That's how the grift gets its roots embedded.
There is one ARC in particular around here that I refer to as cultish.
...
There is one ARC in particular around here that I refer to as cultish.
And this, Gentle Readers, is why so many area repeaters went un-funded and were shut down. Those of us who were tired of...shenanigans...and just wanted to talk to our buddies on VHF and UHF poured a pretty decent amount of coin into our simplex setups, away from that bullspit.
Several repeaters around here are independently owned and open to everyone. We support them - either with parts, funds or assistance doing equipment and tower work.
Why you would want to join a club such as this is odd because it seems to have no definition or purpose, just a vague collection of people who want to join something whatever it is.
Why you would want to join a club such as this is odd because it seems to have no definition or purpose, just a vague collection of people who want to join something whatever it is.
I thought it was a group more interested in working DX than petty radio politics.
I was mistaken.
Therefore: I am no longer a member of or otherwise associated with this organization.
Well, so much for my resignation from the group.
I'm still getting emails from them.
Unsubscribed. Again. Let's see if they take the hint.
kb2crk
11-23-2022, 07:16 PM
Well, so much for my resignation from the group.
I'm still getting emails from them.
Unsubscribed. Again. Let's see if they take the hint.
Another dozen or so unsubscribes should work
Posted today on the TBDXC Website: The organization is no more.
https://www.tbdxc.net/
It is with great sadness that I have to announce my decision to bring the TBDXC experience to a close.
This follows the resignation of our President and Marathon Manager Peter DL3NAA, triggered by yet another “scandal” about TBDXC members massively engaging in FT8 activity.
This problem emerged already more than one year ago. Under pressure from more “purist” members, and in order to maintain the Club’s credibility, I wrote to the membership reminding what the Club stands for and asking those members who do engage in FT8 DXing to consider resigning. Many did, but this letter of mine generated heated and at times vicious debate on various forums, and a lot of feedback – some positive and some very negative - to me personally.
Problem solved? No. A check on Clublog in November 2022 showed that the situation hadn’t changed. As a result, you will remember receiving another email making the same points as the previous one. More expressions of support and a little criticism, on the one hand, and more resignations.
Problem solved? No. A check of the recent TN8K leaderboards shows that as much as one third of the TBDXC members who worked the excellent DXpedition did so on FT8, with quite a few members ONLY working TN8K on FT8 - no CW or SSB!
At this stage, it is abundantly clear to me that I have failed. My initial idea of an organised push back against the exploding digital activity may have been good in theory, but in reality:
a) The TBDXC has failed to make the slightest difference in levels of activity. The recent and very welcome return of CW and SSB traffic appears due to improved propagation conditions and in no way linked to our promotional activity.
b) The TBDXC has been largely ignored by its own members. Only two awards, for instance, were issued during a four-year period. Out of a membership of nearly 2,000, in another example, only about 350 submitted logs for the Marathon during two years, despite numerous, repeated calls to do so even if one doesn’t participate competitively – just to show support. And,
c) What I find most extraordinary, many DXers evidently signed up just to be in a Club. They have not read, or not understood, they don’t care or they just plainly ignore the very foundation, the reason for the Club to exist, and happily work DX with automated digital modes. How is that possible, I honestly do not know. The Club is the laughing stock of anybody who cares to check who works what on what mode.
This is a sign of personal failure for me, and a betrayal to the majority of members who are passionate about the cause and feel good to be in the company of like-minded people.
I did not create the TBDXC to be a police organisation and never had any intention to singling out “offenders” or taking actions like issuing warnings or terminating membership. This is odious, extremely time consuming, and, for an informal association without even a formal membership, not even legal.
I am therefore left with no alternative but to close down the True Blue DXers Club.
A further reason of intense pain is that the demise of the Club will bring an end to the DX Ultra-Marathon – an initiative very much enjoyed by hundreds of DXers for the last two years. 2023 looked promising already, but I don’t see how this initiative could go ahead separate from the existence of the Club. This was indeed a good idea, with plenty of upscale potential, and perhaps someone will want to run it independently in the future.
In signing off, I would like to express my gratitude to those few souls who, during these four years, offered time, work, ideas and enthusiasm and helped me keeping the Club alive, in particular Petr OK1RP, Thomas DK3DUA and Peter DL3NAA.
But especially, I want to say a sincere THANK YOU to all of you – and you are many more than you think after reading this - who truly understood and believed in the ideas behind the True Blue DXers Club.
Long live CW and SSB, long live True Blue DXing!
73 Pete MMØTWX
Sure sounds like a case of sour grapes. "You don't want to play ball my way? Then I'm taking my bat and ball and going home!"
And nothing of value was lost
Sounds like another religious sect bit the dust to me. I mean, who TF thinks another rejective radio society is a good idea?
Whole thing smells of poisoned Koolaide to me. Good riddance.
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