FM on 11M

[KF6HHH]

So now that 11M (CB) is supposed to be going to allow FM phone in addition to AM, do you think this is a good idea or not? Will you look at 11M FM as something to check out? I am waiting to see if they make any CB radios with AM, FM, and SSB, also if they will allow an increase in wattage for output power. The 12W allowed on SSB, if allowed on FM phone could be interesting.

[KG4CGC]

There are a whole lot of reasons put forth in the articles found online but the main reason was a business and financial reason by Corbra/Uniden to not have to make a separate line of radios, sans FM for the US market.
They shmoozed and sweet talked the FCC, made their science points about truck drivers needing interference free communications from sunspot cycles and painted a beautiful picture for the government. Now radio manufacturers will save billions in operations costs and give Cobra/Uniden a little more level playing field competing against a large number of export radios already available.

There you have it. Cause and effect. I'd be more concerned about the FM mode turning CB into 2m repeaters. (budum tiss) I'll be here all week. Remember to tip the wait staff. They work for peanuts. No I mean literally they work for peanuts. The owner is a former circus elephant and he's too cheap to pay!

[WZ7U]

Imagine the heterodyne at the peak of the cycle, with AM & FM signals competing for the same few kc's on every channel. Yikes

[N8YX]

I think this will be a nothingburger.

People want to be LOUD on 11, and FM simply doesn't have that swang.

Many 11M-capable radios have had FM on their mode selectors since the late 80s, and apart from skip I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard the mode used - even by the scofflaw crowd.

[N8YX]

I am waiting to see if they make any CB radios with AM, FM, and SSB
Per my post above, there have been a ton of them on the market for several decades now.


also if they will allow an increase in wattage for output power. The 12W allowed on SSB, if allowed on FM phone could be interesting.
4W carrier in all likelihood. No one thinks capture effect be like it is, but it do.

[PA5COR]

Only mode allowed in 1977 when it became legal, still used a lot in the EU next to AM/SSB.
Lots of producers have ready to go "export" models with all mode including FM, that are easy to reconfigure to legal radio all mode.
Quality of audio is very good, and FM can work as good as AM.
No "swinging meter" though ;)

[kb2vxa]

Adding FM to Ama Rican chicken band won't cause any more problems than chicken chokers have already created. But it should be fun hearing what signals will sound like with mindless golden screwdriver applications, and power mics cranked up to 11 31/32 where the knob snapped off with echo full on and roger beeps squealing like wounded pigs. Another interesting effect is them driving leenyars into Class C like they already do creating that lovely cheese grater sound and splatter, only imagine the overheating problems with a 100% duty cycle and pills glowing bright red. Yeah, this should be fun!

You're right about good sounding audio Cor, but that's with legal rigs operated properly, I've heard them. At the peak of the Y2K sunspot cycle I heard a couple of what I thought to be UK hams operating FM on 10M CB style. That's common here with groups of "10M CBers" operating USB, I'd occasionally join the Ocean County, NJ group and WA2V (SK) was a CB friend "Ramblin' Jack" when I was "Stereo". I switched to FM and lowered the modulation index to 1 (normally 1.5 above 30MHz) to keep it legal and joined them. What I didn't know was all three of us were operating illegally, they were CBers. English CB callsigns were/are extremely close to Amateur callsigns, and frankly it's ballsy using them out of band just asking for a visit by Ofcom.

It don't men a thing if it ain't got that swing, doo wah, doo wah, doo wah, doo wah. Heh, I drove them crazy when I put a Heathkit DX 60B normally a screen modulated transmitter with a simple mod for controlled carrier on CB just for shits and giggles. "Oh man, look at that upward modulation!!!"

[N8YX]

If it does take off at all, I see users of the mode congregating at one or two spots on the band - much as the SSBers have done for decades. And as the FM users of 10M currently do.

Back in the 23Ch days, Ch16 was purported to be THE single sideband channel. In all my years of playing radio (over 50 and counting) I recall hearing ONE SSB conversation on the frequency - or on any channel apart from 35-40 after the 40Ch expansion took place. Everyone seeks their own little hangout and tends to remain there.

[PA5COR]

I worked the New York repeater several times in FM 29.620 out.
Most used mode on 2/70 though running SSB there as well including FT-8
Even ran FM on 160 in our litte morning group, just because we can and for the heck of it.

[PA5COR]

I worked the New York repeater several times in FM 29.620 out.
Most used mode on 2/70 though running SSB there as well including FT-8
Even ran FM on 160 in our litte morning group, just because we can and for the heck of it.
Just reduce power to 50% and keep an eye on how hot thee transceiver gets.
My FT991A has no problem there.

[kb2vxa]

That's interesting, I was active on several NYC repeaters, and that one was part of a linked cross-band system. I don't recall bands other than 10, 2, and 70cM, the 10M transmitter was upstate somewhere because on 10 the inputs and outputs are only 600KHz apart. When it came to Europeans using US repeaters the one in Texas was IT. I heard it 5 & 9 in NJ and the funny thing (both odd and humorous) was I never heard a US station on it

Then there are repeater lids, here's a short story about one. He set up a linked cross-band system on 6, 2, 1.25M and 70cM in an unconventional and worst possible way. Have you guessed the worst possible way? OK, input and output on the FM simplex calling frequencies! Yep, make a call on one and it went out on all the others! Since they all I.D.ed with his callsign it was easy to contact him, and I warned him politely (although I was infuriated) there would be dire consequences. I got the horse laugh, he claimed it was perfectly legal, nothing in FCC Part 97 against it. I reminded him I said nothing about the FCC and left it at that. About a week later I checked back with one rig on one band and another rig on another band, the QRM generator had bitten the dust, and I never heard him again. Back in the day there were CB midnight antenna parties, not putting them up if you get my drift.

[K4PIH]

Did a few pins in the coax in my CB days. One guy we particularly disliked we took an old CH14 walkie talkie (14 was the chat channel in my area) and combined it with one of the flashing lights you see on road construction projects. Hid it in the woods right across the street from his house. During the day he was happy and jawed away but when dark fell and the carrier on 14 kept going on and of "kerchunk kerchunk until dawn he was furious. Typical buy a radio guy, had no idea what was going on. Hell the damn thing might still be in the woods 50 years later.

[N8YX]

Did a few pins in the coax in my CB days.
Some operators kept two or more dogs for that.

One, a Chihuahua that could detect your shenanigans long before the pin was inserted. The other (sometimes a pack) were German Shepherds or something equally aggressive.

There also were methods of area denial which got the point across very effectively. Go home to your wife smelling like pig shit or cheap perfume and try to explain THAT away. :rotflol:

[W3WN]

So now that 11M (CB) is supposed to be going to allow FM phone in addition to AM, do you think this is a good idea or not? Will you look at 11M FM as something to check out? I am waiting to see if they make any CB radios with AM, FM, and SSB, also if they will allow an increase in wattage for output power. The 12W allowed on SSB, if allowed on FM phone could be interesting.
Who cares?

[WZ7U]

CBers?

Don't be a service snob, it's unbecoming.


I'm into radio for radios sake so I think it will be interesting to see what FCC has wrought in allowing this. I'm curious how fm capture will coexist in a predominantly am environment.

[N8YX]

I'm into radio for radios sake so I think it will be interesting to see what FCC has wrought in allowing this..
One of my coworkers (a volunteer fireman) reached out to me regarding non-FD comms and options for facilitating such for him and his family.

I've got them GMRS licensed; a mobile rig is to be set up in his office and with it a MURS base rig - both tied via duplexer to a 150/460MHz dual-band vertical. Likewise, an all-mode CB rig will be joining that collection. He's also thinking about getting a ham ticket and I advised the acquisition of an SDS-200 or similar digital-capable wide range scanner.

All tools in the toolbox, so they have options if needed.

[W3WN]

CBers?

Don't be a service snob, it's unbecoming.


I'm into radio for radios sake so I think it will be interesting to see what FCC has wrought in allowing this. I'm curious how fm capture will coexist in a predominantly am environment.
Sorry. But you misunderstood.

I have never had an interest in CB. I went from SWLing to my Novice ticket. So I just don’t get it.

So the manufacturers have convinced the FCC to permit FM, in addition to AM and SSB. So? It’s just another voice mode.

Are the users clamoring for it? Haven’t seen any signs of it. So is there going to be a huge influx of new FM capable rigs suddenly on the air? Are we going to see a sudden group of FM users, bumping into the old established user groups? Turf wars? Armed insurrection? A 27 MHz civil war?

Or is it going to go over with a big thud, and basically be ignored for years, as a solution to a problem that never existed? Which is what I anticipate.

Which leads to the penultimate question... Who cares?

[kb2vxa]

"Did a few pins in the coax in my CB days."
That's why I ran the coax from my basement radio room/shop/man cave to the antenna mounting brackets through steel EMT with an entrance L and cobra cap painted the same color as the siding.

"One guy we particularly disliked we took an old CH14 walkie talkie (14 was the chat channel in my area) and combined it with one of the flashing lights you see on road construction projects."
Ah yes, the old walkie talkie in a tree trick. Our local "KKK" mob got their comeuppances via the constabulary with a little help from me and my girlfriend. I had one of those AM radio/walkie talkie combos that I crystaled up for the channel they hung out on, cross wired the selector switch, and the PTT so it transmitted whatever AM station it was tuned to. Naturally I tuned it to the local soul station, hooked it up to a wall wart, and stashed it behind my girlfriend's dresser, she lived on the second floor back to back with the ringleader's house across the block. He was FURIOUS when all he could hear on his home channel was that n..... station! The fire grew hotter when he and his friends tried to track it down and found it coming from his house, I sat listening to them ROTFLMAO! Then it happened, unable to find it riding around in their cars, one night they took to creeping around in neighbors' yards, naturally they called the cops on the prowlers, they got rounded up and ened up cooling their heels in the local hoosegow. Maybe it was the old lady's doing, but the "Grand Dragon" and a few "Kluxers" weren't heard again.

"All tools in the toolbox, so they have options if needed."
Do they have the most important one of all, a round tuit? There are stories about it, unfortunately all of them too long for here, so you'll have to write your own IF you get a round tuit.

"I have never had an interest in CB. I went from SWLing to my Novice ticket. So I just don’t get it."
You really don't want it, last I heard before I sold out they talked funny, there was too much fighting and one was even shot to death. It was good before it went to hell in a hand basket thanks to Breakit Breakit and The Pukes of Hazmat, for my friends and I it was a radio and antenna school, a stepping stone to Amateur Radio. Last I heard the sharks ate each other in a mass feeding frenzy and it became a beacon band for 10M that often the lights were on but nobody home. When the chicken banders were "shooting Skip" and I'm sure he didn't appreciate it, I tuned up to 10 and called CQ, at least ONE ham was home.

"Which leads to the penultimate question... Who cares?"
We do, it gives us something to talk about besides the same old boring mess... politics. Now that the penultimate question has been answered I'm curious as to what the ULTIMATE question might be... or am I really? Working backward here's the answer, 42.

[KG4CGC]

To answer the question: How will an overmodulated mic etc sound?
Like pretty bad, maaaan.
Power mics need to be turned down.
Mic gain controls need to be reduced.
Signal bandwidth needs to be increased. 12.5 mhz?
Ability to receive and demodulate wider signals needs to be addressed.

[kb2crk]

I guess all of my 23 channel SBEs and Motorola are obsolete now?????
Nope and I see no reason to get a newer CB,,,,

[KG4CGC]

I guess all of my 23 channel SBEs and Motorola are obsolete now?????
Nope and I see no reason to get a newer CB,,,,

Get on channel 23 on Thursday nights, 8 pm. Point your antenna towards Greenville SC.

[N8YX]

Anyone hearing FM on the band yet?

I can imagine that more than a few FM-capable ham rigs will be pressed into service on 11M if things take off. It's not like many people are using them on 10M FM these days.

[kb2crk]

Get on channel 23 on Thursday nights, 8 pm. Point your antenna towards Greenville SC.

Running a vertical or a wire, I dont see myself pointing either in any direction.......

[N8YX]

Thread bump.

I'm still not hearing much FM on the vast majority of the spectrum where most CBers operate - legally or otherwise. The only regular activity I have noticed usually occurs around 27.615-625, and I suspect that's an established group - not someone dipping their toes in the water due to the rule change.

[N8YX]

And:


Running a vertical or a wire, I dont see myself pointing either in any direction.......

Run a rope and pulley system so that you can orient the rope towards a desired location (i.e., Greenville). If you make the rope 80ft long and 40ft high, you have an equivalent 80ft boom.

Using the widely available formulas for Yagi design, cut a reflector and 5-8 directors. The driven element should be of folded dipole construction (300 ohm twin lead is ideal) and can be fed with a delta or double gamma match.

All elements get insulators on each end. The top insulators are tied to the "boom rope" with smaller pieces of rope. Helps to lay the whole thing out on the ground and get the spacing correct before hoisting the boom rope.

Once the boom rope is secured, the lower insulators/ropes can be staked and tied off then the feedline routed towards the reflector side - or 90 degrees to the plane of the elements themselves.

What you'll end up with RE/DE and 7 directors is >13dBi forward gain and F/S-F/B ratios in excess of 30dB. This can exceed the performance of the old Wilson Super Laser series - even the 8x8 configuration.

If I lived in the middle of a forest with the proper complement of trees, this is exactly the antenna system I'd use on 11M. Multiple arrays pointed at the bigger population centers and interchanges. A lot less expensive than a 60-80ft stand of Rohn 55 plus the aforementioned Super Laser.

[K4PIH]

I ran some FM CB in Germany. Sounded pretty good. Also did Packet on the CB band there as well. I may still have my Euro CB in a box somewhere. Might be interesting.

[N8YX]

Also did Packet on the CB band there as well.
I got rid of the media a number of years ago but I had hard copies (disks) of megs upon megs of CB packet intercepts.

Everyone was using 27.540 at the time. Wasn't just KB-KB or PBBS stuff, either - there were full-blown F6FBB systems running on the frequency.

And therein was the rub: Many of said operators of the larger systems were also hams. And either through carelessness or deliberate intention, they didn't configure the forwarding rules properly and flooded the amateur BBS network with a considerable amount of non-ham traffic. Message traffic, 7-zip files and the like from "USA1NY" or "USA6CA", etc. showed up daily - if not at every hourly forwarding run. At the time I was running one of the largest MSYS BBSes in the state in terms of radio complement - 3 VHF, 3 HF (including a 1200 baud port on 28.195) and a modem port for remote management. My upstream forwarders and I got sick of all the non-ham traffic hitting our BBSes so we dropped a universal Kill rule into the forwarding configs.

This had mixed reactions from our user base. But if it's my license on the line and there's even the slightest question of impropriety, the stuff gets squelched.

Wasn't too long after that (1995, IIRC) that the FCC came down on the domestic CB packet operation like a ton of bricks. It pretty much dried up overnight.

It's sad that packet radio died a seemingly undeserved death. Still isn't permitted on our Class D CB allocation but KB-KB (no BBS) operation is permitted on the old MURS frequencies. Grab a RadShack 19-1210 and connect to a decent antenna, hook to a 1200 baud controller and have at it.