The political forum

[ad4mg]

Our political forum is all but dead, having been poisoned by partisan name calling, disparaging comments, and one sided discussions.

I am as guilty as anyone, perhaps more so.

I suggest that we might keep the current political forum, but hide it from non-members, and possibly rename it to "The Cesspool". Seems appropriate.

To encourage civil discussion, I propose a new forum, with strict rules regarding name calling, bickering, and general shit slinging. The old political forum can be the receptacle for such garbage, so no need to complain about being stifled on your opinions.

Everyone being discussed would be referred to by their proper title. No more "Lying Dump Baby", "tRUMP", "Hildabeast", etc. In the new forum, posts containing such references would be deleted. Trolling would absolutely NOT be allowed. Enforcement would be very strict. I suggest that the staff could, as an alternative to deletion, edit a word here and there in an otherwise civil post.

The new political forum would be visible to everyone, including guests. The existing forum would remain available to all registered members.

We need to make some changes here, and I think that the current political forum turns many potential members off.

Please vote in this poll accordingly, and please do give your opinion on any of this.

Thanks!

[WZ7U]

Well shit the bed.

Number 4, or number 5 I guess. As a freeloader by circumstance I'm not sure I deserve a say. But thanks for asking since I wasn't aware of the problem. It would be nice to grow the Island so maybe an OT section would be good.

Regardless of the decision made, I will always love the time I've had my toes in the sand. Not sure I can refrain from my written disdain for the POTUS currently inhabiting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I can try....

On edit; What brought this about, if you don't mind expounding upon that at some point. If not, OK too.

[ad4mg]

Eric, you have as much 'say' as anyone here! Although donations are very much appreciated, they don't dictate any additional sway with the staff. An equally valuable way of supporting the site is to simply be here and contribute. It would be pretty boring, otherwise.

As to what prompted me to pursue these options... it is the current occupant of the White House, his behavior, and my reactions to him. He is supposed to be above the disgusting behavior he exhibits, and so am I, as a member of the staff. I should not allow myself the luxury of verbally bashing him here. I should, instead, 'walk the walk'. That he has chosen to disrespect the office and nearly all presidents before him is his choice. It makes him appear the buffoon, the loud mouthed drunk in the bar, the village idiot. Having played right into his hands, I will choose a different tact, and try to be civil. I think by now that everyone interested understands how much I detest Trump.

The suggestions I offer are just thoughts off the top of my head. I haven't even run this by Fred, Bob, or Michael yet. It doesn't need to spell the end of harsh criticism of Trump... keeping the old forum, but making it invisible to guests will allow this to continue.

As to anyone who would complain about continuing political discussions here... I would suggest they refrain from reading those forums as a matter of choice. Nobody has to click any link here for any reason.

Regarding moderation of the new political discussions forum, I believe we can do it fairly. We have N8YX, a conservative with strong support of the 1st and 2nd amendments, Bob, also a conventional conservative who has a good grasp on fairness. Michael, I'm not clear on his political leanings, but he seems to value equality and fairness for all. I'm the hothead on the staff, but you can't classify me as a liberal, nor a conservative. I see value in both sides, and choose to view the world in living color as opposed to black and white. I do have an extremely low tolerance for liars, racism, bigotry, and trolling.

Any conclusions reached here will be discussed with the rest of the staff, and we'll figure out what we're going to do, if anything.

So, give us your opinion, vote in the poll, and have fun!

73 - Luke

Well shit the bed.

Number 4, or number 5 I guess. As a freeloader by circumstance I'm not sure I deserve a say. But thanks for asking since I wasn't aware of the problem. It would be nice to grow the Island so maybe an OT section would be good.

Regardless of the decision made, I will always love the time I've had my toes in the sand. Not sure I can refrain from my written disdain for the POTUS currently inhabiting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I can try....

On edit; What brought this about, if you don't mind expounding upon that at some point. If not, OK too.


BTW - I did not vote in the poll. It's obvious that I'd prefer the option of having two political forums.

[KD8TUT]

I voted to nuke it.

But I'm pretty unsure that is the best solution. Vote regret...

There's a conundrum here. If the site went to ham radio only we'd have to work really hard to generate traffic based on the merits of the content. Which would mean the members would have to want to contribute a lot of ham radio content. If we kept the forum we are generating traffic but not really serving ham radio.

I think of examples like sdrzone... that guy actually produces valid reviews and tests of SDR radios and he generates very little trafffic or discussion.

At the same time it's my understanding that this site was founded in protest to site policies of other sites. Is the protest still relevant to the ham radio community?

I guess my feelings on this topic are unclear.

[ad4mg]

I voted to nuke it.

But I'm pretty unsure that is the best solution. Vote regret...

There's a conundrum here. If the site went to ham radio only we'd have to work really hard to generate traffic based on the merits of the content. Which would mean the members would have to want to contribute a lot of ham radio content. If we kept the forum we are generating traffic but not really serving ham radio.

I think of examples like sdrzone... that guy actually produces valid reviews and tests of SDR radios and he generates very little trafffic or discussion.

At the same time it's my understanding that this site was founded in protest to site policies of other sites. Is the protest still relevant to the ham radio community?

I guess my feelings on this topic are unclear.

This is why I take the easy route and ask the residents! They are wise, even if some of them smell funny... :lol:

[KD8TUT]

The suggestions I offer are just thoughts off the top of my head. I haven't even run this by Fred, Bob, or Michael yet. It doesn't need to spell the end of harsh criticism of Trump... keeping the old forum, but making it invisible to guests will allow this to continue.

Regarding moderation of the new political discussions forum, I believe we can do it fairly. We have N8YX, a conservative with strong support of the 1st and 2nd amendments, Bob, also a conventional conservative who has a good grasp on fairness. Michael, I'm not clear on his political leanings, but he seems to value equality and fairness for all. I'm the hothead on the staff, but you can't classify me as a liberal, nor a conservative. I see value in both sides, and choose to view the world in living color as opposed to black and white. I do have an extremely low tolerance for liars, racism, bigotry, and trolling.



I'm not sure what I would call myself either.

Yes... fairness, compassion, fiscal responsibility, and respect for science are at the core of my political leanings. I'm not sure what to call that.

Lately though I've just been working to become a better ham. More proficient.

[KD8TUT]

This is why I take the easy route and ask the residents! They are wise, even if some of them smell funny... :lol:

It's not an easy question... even if you have a clean fresh scent....

[WZ7U]

Very good Luke. A reasonable discourse and all makes sense. I'm not opposed to the high road but that despicable maroon makes it too easy to go the way he chooses. I really do see how and why you feel the way you about this and I can respect that.

I'm not sure where I land concerning political parties. I'm really disgusted with the two major players in our country but see value in parts of both. If there was a way to take the best of both and start something better, wouldn't that be something! The chance of that happening are lower than sniffing a fart in a whirlwind.

Oh, I'm not wise. A wiseass, yeah. That's part of why I like you guys; you put up with me more than that other place. Besides, the old guys here aren't so stuck in their dogma to be unreasonable. Which keeps my allergy to stupid in check. I appreciate that.

[K4PIH]

I think it's a great idea! The fact that the island is open to alternatives other than just shutting it down (as other sites do) is commendable. I'll confess that I'm a conservative and I voted for him, but after the honeymoon It's getting to be very difficult to understand the things he does, although I'm seeing the impact of what he does on the world stage.

That's the main reason I came to the island ... to discuss things and even give and take jabs, on political issues that hams are entitled to express. However islanders sometimes can go too far and poison the well so to speak.

No harm no foul.

[VE7DCW]

I say keep the forum hidden from guests and create a new more regulated forum and have voted as such ......your 'merican politics are your own and and I believe that this option is actually better than the silly QRZ approach of burying it for members only! With the political climate that exists today it will be tough to control even a more regulated forum but it could still be nuked in any case if it proves to be unmanageable. :yes:

[KG4CGC]

If grown adults can't sit around and talk about politics the way grown adults do then what's point of having discussions?
People are going to talk about whatever they want to talk about and those topics go all over the map. Do we bury our heads in the sand and pretend nothing bad is happening with the ship of state?

Hide the forum from everyone who does not want to specifically be in it. If there is an administrator who does not want to take part, make so they can not even access it if that is even possible. THERE IS NOTHING PARTISAN ABOUT CALLING OUT A TRAITOR IN CHIEF. You may not have liked past presidents whether they be on the left side or right side of the aisle but when we have a segment of the population that sides with Putin because they are told to? That needs to be discussed among adults.

[KG4CGC]

I say keep the forum hidden from guests and create a new more regulated forum and have voted as such ......your 'merican politics are your own and and I believe that this option is actually better than the silly QRZ approach of burying it for members only! With the political climate that exists today it will be tough to control even a more regulated forum but it could still be nuked in any case if it proves to be unmanageable. :yes:

I appreciate the views of those on the outside looking in. We can not always see the circus for all the elephant dung in the tent.

[WZ7U]

Spectacular observation Charles. The elephant dung does seem to be piled higher than ever before.

[KD8TUT]

Can my vote be edited to option 6 please?

[VE7DCW]

Can my vote be edited to option 6 please?

I hope your dancing skills are up to snuff mister! :snicker:

[KD8TUT]

I hope your dancing skills are up to snuff mister! :snicker:

Nope... not really.

But I'm very hairy, my hose is formidable, and the stuffed animal is very cute.

Ok... that even made ME uncomfortable... why do I hang out with you people?

[WZ7U]

Cuz you fit right in. Well, fit is subjective...

[n6hcm]

I don't participate much in the political forum here. I just can't. I've been an activist all my life, but my energy is limited lately and I just can't go there.

When I think about this from a mile-high view I think that a visible political forum could attract those who want to fight that battle. I think that, among the current island population, it's not bad... But a busier forum could attract a different sort.

I also think that enforcement of the proposed rules in a new forum could become a bottomless pit. I'm sure OP realizes this, though.

[WZ7U]

It just occurred to me. "Sticky Poll". Entendre and a half?

[N8YX]

It just occurred to me. "Sticky Poll". Entendre and a half?

You ain't been hangin' 'round the right strip clubs.

Or maybe you have ... :snicker:

[PA5COR]

I suggest option 4.
With the current politics i silenced myself a bit, just brexiter harassing on the satellite forum now.
We mostly came here as outlaws from the other site, being silenced or having posts deleted, i though we should keep silencing and deleting posts of other thinking peeps to a minimum.
Convince them with reasons, facts and reality, works after 2 years breaking down the rabid brexiteers on the satellite forum ( reality helps too)...
I'll juststick to my sig ( if allowed) ;)

[koØm]

Two forums, both visible; "PG" forum free to all. "R-Rated forum "pay-to-play".

.

[KG4CGC]

Two forums, both visible; "PG" forum free to all. "R-Rated forum "pay-to-play".

.

Let's not get all Ayn Zed.

[N8YX]

Let's not get all Ayn Zed.

The funny thing about that - quite a few who participate in the Tech sections over yonder (specifically, the Boat Anchors area) have expressed displeasure regarding the quantity and quality of infighting in their General Subjects forums, and won't participate in those discussions. Conversely, I see very few of the more bellicose of the lot ever showing up on the Tech side of da hizzle.

Which suits me just fine.

[koØm]

Let's not get all Ayn Zed.

I would pay to play over here, somebody got to support the free speech portion :smoker:

.

ETA: There's something *wrong* here, *we* are sitting here on an open forum discussing whether or not to open a new forum that will be invisible to guest and, 50% of the people who voted thought that would be a good idea!

That doesn't seem very hospitable and inviting to me.

BTW: " * " means the way my brain sees it.

[KD8TUT]

So has this been decided?

[ad4mg]

So has this been decided?

I think so. This weekend, I plan to draft a set of rules for the new political discussion forum for Fred, Bob, and yourself to review. If everyone is good with the concept, we'll make the rough and tumble forum invisible to guests, without any additional changes and set up the new political forum.

Any suggestions for a name for the new forum?

[suddenseer]

Play Nice Politics?

[W5BRM]

Keep the Politics section. CLean it up, make it popular, put ads on that forum only, let it add revenue to help pay the bills.

[KD8TUT]

I propose the following:


Welcome to the new political forum. As we embark on this experiment it may be important to point out the following:

The people in this forum are not your enemies. They are your fellow citizens- either of the USA or of the world. They should be considered friends. Most of them want the same thing from their government. The others are usually culturally restrained by value systems that do not allow for either democracy or honest discussion of issues based on facts.

But most people want things like national defense, law enforcement, garbage pickup, religious freedom, and varying levels of social programs.

The important thing to remember is that no one ever gets exactly what they want. A democracy is an ongoing compromise. It's been that way since the Greeks. Even our founding fathers here in the USA recognized this. And the founding documents, themselves massive compromises, planted the seeds of that tradition.

The upshot is that in a functioning democracy there is no "socialist utopia" or "Christian homeland". Only a set of compromises that make it possible for the population to live within their own belief systems.

With these truths in mind we invite you to the new as yet unnamed political forum.

[KD8TUT]

Oh...

And no one will go for it... but I think a great name for a political forum would be:

"The Saddle of Rocinante"

And just for reference: Rocinante was Don Quixote's horse.

:)

[VE7DCW]

Oh...

And no one will go for it... but I think a great name for a political forum would be:

"The Saddle of Rocinante"

And just for reference: Rocinante was Don Quixote's horse.

:)

I knew that........ but seriously,quirky and really to the point,well done Mike!! :mrgreen:

[ad4mg]

Step 1 has been taken... the "Forbidden Zone" political forum is no longer visible to guests. No other changes were made for registered members.

[KG4CGC]

Oh...

And no one will go for it... but I think a great name for a political forum would be:

"The Saddle of Rocinante"

And just for reference: Rocinante was Don Quixote's horse.

:)

Where else was the name "Rocinante"used?

[WZ7U]

I like The Saddle of Rocinante. Has a weird ring to it. Oh, your post Mike showed up on a Duck Duck Go search....

15916

[KD8TUT]

Where else was the name "Rocinante"used?

Cygnus X-1 I think....

It was the name of a ship venturing into a black hole. But of course... Peart liberated the idea from Miguel de Cervantes.

[KD8TUT]

I like The Saddle of Rocinante. Has a weird ring to it. Oh, your post Mike showed up on a Duck Duck Go search....

15916

Crap... "they​" might find me!!!?!?!?!

[WZ7U]

More like "they" did find you

[ad4mg]

There's going to be a delay in implementing anything else right now. Last night's storms took out some of my equipment here. Lost the cable modem/wireless router, and also an all-in-one HP OfficeJet printer. Apparently, the electrical surge came down the cable, as the printer was the only device on at the time. Being a holiday weekend, the soonest I can get a modem from Comcast is Tuesday, and I have no way of knowing if the cable itself has been damaged.

I'm on my laptop, running the wireless hot spot on my smart phone for internet. Signal is pretty poor, and of course, I don't have an unlimited data plan (just don't need it).

So Wednesday, maybe, after I can confer with Bob and Fred.

[KJ3N]

Where else was the name "Rocinante"used?

The Expanse TV series.

[VE7DCW]

So ........ has it been finalized on how the new political forum will be to non members of the Island Luke? ..... just curious and all that...... :-D

[KG4CGC]

There's going to be a delay in implementing anything else right now. Last night's storms took out some of my equipment here. Lost the cable modem/wireless router, and also an all-in-one HP OfficeJet printer. Apparently, the electrical surge came down the cable, as the printer was the only device on at the time. Being a holiday weekend, the soonest I can get a modem from Comcast is Tuesday, and I have no way of knowing if the cable itself has been damaged.

I'm on my laptop, running the wireless hot spot on my smart phone for internet. Signal is pretty poor, and of course, I don't have an unlimited data plan (just don't need it).

So Wednesday, maybe, after I can confer with Bob and Fred.


So ........ has it been finalized on how the new political forum will be to non members of the Island Luke? ..... just curious and all that...... :-D

There ya go, Gerry. There are possible delays.

[KD8TUT]

I'm going to take some heat for this.... but...

I think in addition to this that perhaps we ought step away from being the "misift" forum. Rather, we should build up our ham radio content and be of more service to the overall community. Not just those who hate the other forums.

I've got my own frustration with the "other communities" of course. I think they are shoddily run cliques run by biased assholes who do not deserve the positions they have.

However, we can't continue indefinitely taking the liberal overflow from other forums as our only way of gaining new members.

That's just my thoughts on the subject. Since we are not commercial we do not need to rely on politics for page views... which leaves us free to actually deal with radio.

[ad4mg]

I'm actually thinking along the same lines. We've taken the existing political forum out of public view, and with the fairly low volume of traffic and relatively civil discourse, perhaps we don't require another political forum.

I'm kinda thinking in terms of leaving everything as-is until the political forum causes us additional problems.

BTW - most new members gravitate to the technical forums. There's only a dozen or so regulars posting in the political forum these days, so we should try to keep it civil.

I think politics is an important part of our hobby. Discussion of the topic should be allowed as long as the booger eaters don't show back up. Tolerance for that sort of thing ended with the "One gun thread to rule all gun threads" bullshit.

My humble opinion.


I'm going to take some heat for this.... but...

I think in addition to this that perhaps we ought step away from being the "misift" forum. Rather, we should build up our ham radio content and be of more service to the overall community. Not just those who hate the other forums.

I've got my own frustration with the "other communities" of course. I think they are shoddily run cliques run by biased assholes who do not deserve the positions they have.

However, we can't continue indefinitely taking the liberal overflow from other forums as our only way of gaining new members.

That's just my thoughts on the subject. Since we are not commercial we do not need to rely on politics for page views... which leaves us free to actually deal with radio.

[WZ7U]

I can try to watch my mouth, but it has proven ineffective in the past.

No, really, I will be civil unless a booger eater goes sideways with me. I am capable of a little modicum of civility at times.

However, we are still considered misfits by those other ops, so how do we get away from that sort of baggage as a site?

[KG4CGC]

I think we forget that there were those who's sole mission was to come here to "teach us a lesson." Dave, the Island founder was told that if he didn't like how things were run at the place that shall not be mentioned, that he could go start his own website ... so he did.

That one little action really chapped some hides. Either bring on the knuckle dragging, booger eating troglodytes or do away with all manner of disagreeable discussion. Political discussion brings out the fringe elements that cut across all cross sections of any part of society and its niches. This shouldn't be an actual issue inside a political forum. It is a problem when one let's either their politics or their ego negatively color their conduct OUTSIDE of an arena of political discourse.

I think we just got tired of saying the same thing, to the same stubborn old people. Yes it does get old and I guess that there are those who consider it a challenge or even their duty to yell down "weak" and establish order, "their" order across all cross sections across all parts of society while they go screaming about global take over by the one world order types while they preach their own brand of exactly the same thing, One World Order from their perspective.

Whatever you decide to do, remember that everything will get, how shall I put it? Shittier. People are taking sides over trivial matters and their loyalty to a belief is stronger than college football fans winning nationals and world cup soccer fans winning internationally ... combined!


Meme for your pleasure.

15932

[KD8TUT]

I think what I'm going for here is the idea that at some point we have to stand or fall on our service to ham radio- not politics or past (or current) disputes with other sites.

Those disputes may be valid. Politics should be allowed as a discussion. We just probably need to tick the meter a bit more towards amateur radio overall.

Though- my perception of these issues is vastly different than the old timers here on the island. I wasn't there for the genesis of the forum. So I think I'll just go back behind the curtain and run the server :)

[suddenseer]

I think we have been here several times before, and voted to do nothing, let debris fly. I barely remember. The "founders" are mostly long gone. This is a group of hams using very old bbs like software. This place was old when I found it. I was not a pissed off zedder, or whatever. I used to get the qrz cd back in the day. I only used that website to look up callsigns.

[KG4CGC]

"The" founder has moved on. I consider people like Luke and Fred to be co-founders. Bob, part of the co-founding team. A brotherhood of like minded individuals who came together and started a new country. Much like the beginnings of the United States just prior to the decision to create a constitution and tell King George to shove it.

Aiming more for amateur radio technical excellence? We have one of the best people in all of hamdom and he's already blogged a few of his restorations and mods. We also have another who we need to encourage to get back in here because everything he touches, lawnmowers, cars, antique(s) radios look like they've had the Midas Touch.

Then we have our resident Power Monkey and booooy howdy! I sure would like to see some more of that monkey stuff!

[WZ7U]

Charles makes good points. I like the analogy, all up until 2016. It better not go that way here in the future. :wtf:

[N8YX]

Politics...

No matter what I say or how eloquent the delivery thereof, I probably won't convince the other guy of my point of view...and vice versa. We can agree to (civilly) disagree but at the end of the day the best we'll likely achieve is parity.

Which is why I spend my time playing with the tech side of the joint. I wouldn't want any of the Alpha Hotel (including the political forum) to go away, though restricting access is/was a good move. 'Not my cuppa tea' doesn't mean we shouldn't (or won't) serve yours...

My contributions are merely spark plugs, meant to ignite creativity in our current (and potentially new) membership. I have many pieces of equipment in the Project Pile. Maybe some will get completed in my lifetime...maybe others will be sold as the result of an offer I cannot refuse then modified or restored by fellow hams. A few select pieces will be repaired, restored and passed on to prospective amateurs/SWLs in the hopes of perpetuating this hobby.

One such example of the latter landed in the hands of a lady friend in the Columbus area, who - in addition to SWBC and Ute monitoring - is getting a kick listening to ...shenanigans... on 40 and 75M. Should she obtain a General license or above, a matching transmitter will be obtained, repaired and donated...and we might end up with another Islander to boot.

[kb2vxa]

"Any suggestions for a name for the new forum?"
QRZ

I believe if it ain't broke don't try to fix it and I'm not a cat, I don't bury my poop. Well, if you want to bury it so be it then, but for my money you'll be stifling me your neighborhood grumpy old bastid. This is a democracy unlike America's where our choices are made for us and we're left with what we think is the lesser of two evils, here the majority rules and that's Evel. If creativity is going to be stifled on the new forum I probably won't bother reading, but we'll see. If I'm going to be buried like a cat turd on the old forum I probably won't bother writing, but we'll see.

In closing, it seems that the majority is pondering what the other guy may be thinking, just a bit of politically (sic) correct. The above opinion is entirely my own, written in my well known politically incorrect style, I am a minority. I'm the 8th Wonder Of The World too........ I've witnessed a few evolutions and am witnessing another, Shin Gogira lives!

[kb2crk]

Make a new one, Hide it from guests. I don't like the hump in the white house either but I have not even been in there to read anymore due to the way it is now. I may or may not pop in there but there is only so much one can read of the same thing over and over before just saying screw it.

[KG4CGC]

Make a new one, Hide it from guests. I don't like the hump in the white house either but I have not even been in there to read anymore due to the way it is now. I may or may not pop in there but there is only so much one can read of the same thing over and over before just saying screw it.

You speaks the truth.

[WZ7U]

I'm still shocked there is only 22 poll responses....

[KG4CGC]

I'm still shocked there is only 22 poll responses....

Video Facebook killed the message book show.

[suddenseer]

Dancing naked with attachments was a close second. There still is hope for this place.

[kb2crk]

Dancing naked with attachments was a close second. There still is hope for this place.

Shit I didn't see that option. Can I change my vote????