I hate computers (kinda)

[WZ7U]

OK, it's true. I hate computers the same way I hate anything else I can't immediately understand. To not be able to readily understand what I am looking at is one of my base frustrations. Especially under any kind of gun.

So here I am typing this to you when I should be pulling whats left of my thinning locks out trying desperately to comb through a bunch of sales hooey, all the while having this feeling that none of this is what I really need. Now on to the specifics.

I need a CAD capable computer and the ole win XP girl just isn't up to the task and probably never has been for quite a while. While the memory is great (hundreds of GB), the ram is sorely lacking, the pentium is out of date and the video card is too anemic as well. "Professional" help says it's not worth it to upgrade. So, my 'problem' comes from the yl's insistence that I use Costco as my source for a new machine. Reading through their online sales shit is straight forward enough, but the answers I need just aren't there. OK, so unit xyz has the requisite GB of ram and hard drive space, cool. But what graphics card does it have? Is it 64 bit? Exactly which software is installed and why? Answers I can't seem to get (or understand) in a reasonable fashion.

I am not an IT guy. I've been "IT" plenty of times, but that is neither here or there. She insists Costco has the best warranty and I don't dispute that. But if what they have won't work, well, you get it. The local computer store in town has something they swear will work on their used table and while I trust their assessment of my needs and their product, it is still at the end of the day a used, refurbished laptop that may only get me through school. Why can't the specifics of a computer be as easy to look up as say one might do when considering a new car? Am I just being obtuse again?

My problem is I only get one shot to get the thing right from the $$$ standpoint. I need a workstation, not a porn getter. And my window is rapidly closing. In none of my wildest dreams did I figure this was going to be so difficult. Not to mention the fight that has erupted around here over it. Almost makes me want to quit the whole idea and sell pencils on a street corner somewhere.

Any tips how to weed through the sales fluff? Any suggestions from folks that know what they are looking at vs what does what? Am I spinning my wheels? I wish the specs on the Autodesk and Dassalt web pages could be put into some filter and a reasonable response come out the other side. I know, wish in one hand.......

As usual, thanks ahead of time to the smarterer of us islanders for any input you may have. It is appreciated.


<it kills me to do this to you all this way. sorry>

[koØm]

OK, it's true. I hate computers the same way I hate anything else I can't immediately understand. To not be able to readily understand what I am looking at is one of my base frustrations. Especially under any kind of gun.

So here I am typing this to you when I should be pulling whats left of my thinning locks out trying desperately to comb through a bunch of sales hooey, all the while having this feeling that none of this is what I really need. Now on to the specifics.

I need a CAD capable computer and the ole win XP girl just isn't up to the task and probably never has been for quite a while. While the memory is great (hundreds of GB), the ram is sorely lacking, the pentium is out of date and the video card is too anemic as well. "Professional" help says it's not worth it to upgrade. So, my 'problem' comes from the yl's insistence that I use Costco as my source for a new machine. Reading through their online sales shit is straight forward enough, but the answers I need just aren't there. OK, so unit xyz has the requisite GB of ram and hard drive space, cool. But what graphics card does it have? Is it 64 bit? Exactly which software is installed and why? Answers I can't seem to get (or understand) in a reasonable fashion.

I am not an IT guy. I've been "IT" plenty of times, but that is neither here or there. She insists Costco has the best warranty and I don't dispute that. But if what they have won't work, well, you get it. The local computer store in town has something they swear will work on their used table and while I trust their assessment of my needs and their product, it is still at the end of the day a used, refurbished laptop that may only get me through school. Why can't the specifics of a computer be as easy to look up as say one might do when considering a new car? Am I just being obtuse again?

My problem is I only get one shot to get the thing right from the $$$ standpoint. I need a workstation, not a porn getter. And my window is rapidly closing. In none of my wildest dreams did I figure this was going to be so difficult. Not to mention the fight that has erupted around here over it. Almost makes me want to quit the whole idea and sell pencils on a street corner somewhere.

Any tips how to weed through the sales fluff? Any suggestions from folks that know what they are looking at vs what does what? Am I spinning my wheels? I wish the specs on the Autodesk and Dassalt web pages could be put into some filter and a reasonable response come out the other side. I know, wish in one hand.......

As usual, thanks ahead of time to the smarterer of us islanders for any input you may have. It is appreciated.


<it kills me to do this to you all this way. sorry>

The informed buyer (except Apple-boyz) gets what he pays for; 6th or 7th generation Intel processors, a couple of Gigs of storage (SSD if you want to get sexy but, remember all digital devices have a definite life span; flash drives weren't intended to last for ever), 8 to 16 Gigabytes of RAM and, a video card with at least 1 gigabyte of RAM on-board. 2 USB 2.0 ports, 1 USB 3.0 port, HDMI or Thunderbolt (Mini Display port). Decent audio output system. DVD or Blue-Ray is up to you. Wi-Fi , all modes, Ethernet port and Telephone modem.

Dell is a good name, stay away from PowerSpec and HP.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

.

[koØm]

Oh, and a Camera so you can go "Live" on FaceBook and Twitter.

.

[WØTKX]

Well, I am a "CAD" guy from way back, and I have some suggestions.

But first, the questions...

What AutoCAD program(s)?
What is preferred, desktop or laptop?
What else do you want to do besides CAD?
What is your max budget, and what do you really want to spend?

What is the maximum velocity of a Bushtit in free fall after attending a Trump rally? :evil:

;)

P.S. Surface modelling will take a bit of horsepower in the graphics card.

FWIW, I don't use AutoCAD at home, SketchUp is cool but odd for AutoCAD users.

I do all my modeling in Blender which is complex as hell, but it is 3D and FREE!

[WZ7U]

No. No camera. A face for radio, remember?

I was told by an instructor bigger, faster, better which makes sense. Oddly enough Dell was the page I'm looking at right now. Precision 3420 to be precise. Seems to fit the bill but I'm always suspicious. On the Costco page I see Dell XPS 8900. Again bigger faster better, but does it really have what I need in it? Someone told me a laptop is the way to go for portability, but laptops have always kinda freaked me out on the whole battery thing plus I have been known to drop expensive electronics from height before. Prolly go desk top for those reasons alone.

All good opinion, thank you. As far as mileage, I try to get as much as possible considering the markup gasoline gets around here. (Did manage $2.19 on the Safeway discount today in Longview, WA)

[N2CHX]

I buy all my [non-Raspberry Pi/embedded] computer shit from M&T reuse. I am right now typing this on a commercial grade HP laptop-- an EliteBook 8460P with an i5 2.5 gHz processor, 320 GB HD and 8 GB of RAM, to be exact, which I picked up from them for $100. It's one of two very similar machines I bought from them last year, along with host of desktop stuff on the cheap. It was only 4 years old when I bought it and has a brushed aluminum case and a battery that lasts forever. Not only do I code on both of these machines, but I also use them for editing/producing youtube videos and to do 3D modeling for building studios and designing tiny houses. They render 3D models quite nicely. Video encoding is slower than I'd like, but works just fine.

http://www.mtreuse.com/

The Buffalo location is literally 10 minutes from me, but they will ship.

[WZ7U]

Well, I am a "CAD" guy from way back, and I have some suggestions.

But first, the questions...

What AutoCAD program(s)?
What is preferred, desktop or laptop?
What else do you want to do besides CAD?
What is your max budget, and what do you really want to spend?

What is the maximum velocity of a Bushtit in free fall after attending a Trump rally? :evil:

;)

P.S. Surface modelling will take a bit of horsepower in the graphics card.

FWIW, I don't use AutoCAD at home, SketchUp is cool but odd for AutoCAD users.

I do all my modeling in Blender which is complex as hell, but it is 3D and FREE!

OK big D. I knew you would chime in if I cried out. So, here's the skinny as far as I can tell (in order of asking)

*Solidworks 2016, Autocad 2017 as per the instructors email.
*Preferences.....hard pack, soft pack or bulk? Take bulk. Oh, uh, wrong thing. I suppose desktop although like I said earlier on, a guy said a laptop is more practical as far as going back and forth to an "office". Thoughts on that? Kinda wanted to work from home eventually.
*Other things.....the plan is for it to be strictly a school/work machine. I have tired granny here for this forum stuff, officey tasks, pictures and eventually some radio programs beyond N1MM like Olivia, JT65/9, PSK31 and so on.
*Budget....it always comes down to the Benjies, don't it? Well, I have plenty once the student financial aid gets here in the second week of Sept, but the problem is I need to be going in the 3rd week of Aug. Story of my life. I can get ahold of $700 so far, but like I said, lots more in the wings. I would like to be able to get into something right away that could carry me into a work environment but I may have to settle for a "student" grade setup for now.

*Approximately 54m/sec if I'm not mistaken

So, armed with that, whadda ya think young man?

[WZ7U]

I buy all my [non-Raspberry Pi/embedded] computer shit from M&T reuse. I am right now typing this on a commercial grade HP laptop-- an EliteBook 8460P with an i5 2.5 gHz processor, 320 GB HD and 8 GB of RAM, to be exact, which I picked up from them for $100. It's one of two very similar machines I bought from them last year, along with host of desktop stuff on the cheap. It was only 4 years old when I bought it and has a brushed aluminum case and a battery that lasts forever. Not only do I code on both of these machines, but I also use them for editing/producing youtube videos and to do 3D modeling for building studios and designing tiny houses. They render 3D models quite nicely. Video encoding is slower than I'd like, but works just fine.

http://www.mtreuse.com/

The Buffalo location is literally 10 minutes from me, but they will ship.

Now, see, that's kinda what I like. Used doesn't usually scare me but since computers are all voodoo to me anyway and the yl has me thinking warranty, I'm in a state of flux. The local computer store has a laptop for $600 used that has an SSD with all the requisite capacities, speeds and necessities but my guess is they bought it from an authorized reseller and ramped it up, with the accompanying markup. I know they gotta eat too, but steak? Figuring this all out is something I KNOW I could do if I only had the brain (thanks straw man, you bastid) for it. Which I WILL get to someday, just not today. Me & computers; appliance operator at best.

I am going to look at M&T right.....................NOW!

[WØTKX]

Solidworks is not just surface modelling. Moar POWER! So, the deal is, multicore doesn't mean as much in this environment, processor speed, graphics, SSD, and RAM does. Solidworks is not going to use multi-threading like some apps do. So don't waste your money on that.

FWIW, Dell Precision M6800 is a hot laptop choice, new is almost 8K, used is 2.5K, budget busted. :(

From Reddit (good resource)...

"Many of Solidworks' operations are single threaded, not multi-threaded, so when you are looking for a CPU focus more on clock speed than the number of cores. Four cores with a higher clock speed is probably more useful than eight cores with a lower clock speed.


I have a 3.6ghz dual core intel i3 box with 16gb of ram at home that is much snappier than the 2.6ghz eight core Xeon box with 12gb of ram that I am stuck with at work (Both systems are running solidworks 2011 though)."

My current PC is a Quad core AMD with a lot of RAM and a medium speed clock. It does well with what I do, but I am not doing solids.

Doubt if you will hit the budget with a laptop, but prolly a tower/desktop. I would recomend used with a local supplier that will back it up.
Or build one, if you want the challenge and annoyances. And yea, an i5 Intel with a faster clock and more $$ in the graphics and RAM.

Or a Quad core AMD, especially if you use an AMD graphics card as well, like I do. For my interests, running the Flex 3000 and video/CAD/Rendering?
It does pretty good for a used PC. I spent under $500 for it and upgraded the power supply, RAM, and graphics in that order. Then an SSD drive.
Maybe $1000 invested, in stages. $140 of that was for the high end TI Firewire card to run the Flex rig, you don't need that.
It is a used Gateway multimedia PC, of all things, from Microcenter. I've had it for 4.5 years.

Give this basic info to your local box builder, and tell 'em to shaddup about gaming PC's, it's not relevant.

Don't ignore a used PC/Laptop that meets these specs. I hope this gives you a good start, eh?

WTF, you calling this Olde Pharte young? :roll:

[WZ7U]

OK, good advice indeed. I will check with the guy in town again and see how far he is willing to back it up. Also going to look over in Portland, up to Seattle and places distant on the used side of things and see whats going on out there some more. A big part of my problem is the clock....gotta be operational in about two weeks. I thought this was going to be a lot easier than it has proved to be so far, but anything worth doing is going to be a pita sometimes.

Like antennas...my compromise antenna is compromised since apparently the south pacific and mid europe can hear me on ssb but the rbn cant hear me on cw. WTF?

[XE1/N5AL]

To save money, I was going to suggest that you keep an eye out for a "tax free" weekend, that many states have right before school starts. But, I see that Oregon has no state sales tax! bastids

[PA5COR]

Buying a new laptop for me is simple it needs to work 7 to 8 years 12 hours a day here, my old one did and still works.
The new I 7 lappy with 12 Gig mem, 250 Gig SSHD and 2 GB ATI Radeon video card lets me play games in 3 d which i never do but the overkill on the 17 inch screen makes sure it still will do what i want in 7 years time fast.

2.4GHz speed over clocking to 3 Ghz processor if needed.
Lenovo, the old one was an acer.
You are caught with funds that come in late, doing Cad work needs a fast processor, lots of Ram, and preferential an SSHD to keep the system speed universal and not have a bottleneck, good videocard as well...

SSHD's now are quite reliable, but the need for backups stays using SSHD or standard HD's ..... we all found that out in all our years of using computers and i started with a Sinclair ZX 81 with 1 Kb mem and 16 KB extention....followed by a Tandy Coco ;)

Quality of screen using laptop HD.
Desktop good monitor.
I never use desktops myself, just build a desktop gaming system for my son last week though high spec.
So, look at what you want to do with it and get as high spec overall in the system as possible not creating bottlenecks by a slow component.

For what i do with the laptop my system is stupendously overkill, but in 5 years time it still will be relative fast, i spend 1K Euro's on it.
That is from a good friend in a computer shop, bet it cost more if i just bought it elsewhere.

Good luck buying your new computer ;)

[KC2UGV]

Sounds like the two areas you need to focus on are graphics card, and memory. CPU bumps aren't really all that important anymore, tbh. Quad core 2GHz is about the max anyone I know of can actually max out, on laptop/desktop/workstation.

nVidia 980ti will last you many, many years in service. You can likely get 5 years with a 960, at least. It should be able to handle any and all graphics work you throw at it. For memory, look for a minimum of 8GB, 16GB is better, 64GB if you can afford it.

[WØTKX]

https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/42876

From a few years ago, but if you are buying used or "NOS".

More recent...

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Why-you-should-use-a-Quadro-video-card-in-Solidworks-2016-751/

It's kind of a CAD/rendering thing. Which is a weird world, and going on spec sheets is only a starting point.
Looks like first/single core CPU speed is an issue in this world, as it is calculation intensive.

Keep your eye on the knee in the price/performance curve, and I'd stick with recommendations from SolidWorks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SolidWorks/comments/3c9mb0/whats_the_deal_with_solidworks_and_graphics_cards/?st=irhsw3h8&sh=33f644d8

You just want it to work, you don't want to fiddle with the bits, eh?

Anything that does SolidWorks well should work great in AutoCAD.

[XE1/N5AL]

Do any of the cad packages make good use of the newer laptops with 4k UHD displays? ...or, would all the extra pixels just serve to burden the computer with more work and slow it down?

I think that most commercial software will list the minimum system requirements on the company webpage. But, you will want to be well above these minimums because they might only be adequate for the most basic of projects.

[N1LAF]

One can get a Dell workstation laptop at nice prices, and if you wait until a holiday, they typically run a holiday sale between 40% to 50% off with free shipping. Then you have access to Dell main site for drivers. On Labor day, it is possible to get a 3 year old M6600 for $500, with 8GB of memory, with an NVIDIA M3000 video card and a 17.3" widescreen. The M6600 also have a secondary drive slot - great for multi-boot potential.

http://dellrefurbished.com/computer-workstation

[KD8TUT]

OK, it's true. I hate computers the same way I hate anything else I can't immediately understand. To not be able to readily understand what I am looking at is one of my base frustrations. Especially under any kind of gun.

So here I am typing this to you when I should be pulling whats left of my thinning locks out trying desperately to comb through a bunch of sales hooey, all the while having this feeling that none of this is what I really need. Now on to the specifics.

I need a CAD capable computer and the ole win XP girl just isn't up to the task and probably never has been for quite a while. While the memory is great (hundreds of GB), the ram is sorely lacking, the pentium is out of date and the video card is too anemic as well. "Professional" help says it's not worth it to upgrade. So, my 'problem' comes from the yl's insistence that I use Costco as my source for a new machine. Reading through their online sales shit is straight forward enough, but the answers I need just aren't there. OK, so unit xyz has the requisite GB of ram and hard drive space, cool. But what graphics card does it have? Is it 64 bit? Exactly which software is installed and why? Answers I can't seem to get (or understand) in a reasonable fashion.

I am not an IT guy. I've been "IT" plenty of times, but that is neither here or there. She insists Costco has the best warranty and I don't dispute that. But if what they have won't work, well, you get it. The local computer store in town has something they swear will work on their used table and while I trust their assessment of my needs and their product, it is still at the end of the day a used, refurbished laptop that may only get me through school. Why can't the specifics of a computer be as easy to look up as say one might do when considering a new car? Am I just being obtuse again?

My problem is I only get one shot to get the thing right from the $$$ standpoint. I need a workstation, not a porn getter. And my window is rapidly closing. In none of my wildest dreams did I figure this was going to be so difficult. Not to mention the fight that has erupted around here over it. Almost makes me want to quit the whole idea and sell pencils on a street corner somewhere.

Any tips how to weed through the sales fluff? Any suggestions from folks that know what they are looking at vs what does what? Am I spinning my wheels? I wish the specs on the Autodesk and Dassalt web pages could be put into some filter and a reasonable response come out the other side. I know, wish in one hand.......

As usual, thanks ahead of time to the smarterer of us islanders for any input you may have. It is appreciated.


<it kills me to do this to you all this way. sorry>

I'm a systems engineer. I'd be happy to review anything you are considering purchasing or point you to an integrator that can make you a killer box exactly to your specifications.

[WØTKX]

No offense to any and all who are trying to help. SolidWorks is a little weird, and so is AutoCAD.
The "workstation PC" environment is not the same as regular PC's, etc.

Suggest hanging out on the SolidWorks forums to find the knee in the price/performance curve.

I researched the hell out of shit to find the PC and hardware that would run my Flex AND let me play with Blender.
And upgraded the refurb Gateway I bought from MicroCenter to make it work well.

[WZ7U]

You just want it to work, you don't want to fiddle with the bits, eh?

Anything that does SolidWorks well should work great in AutoCAD.

Well, for right now that would be an accurate assessment since I'm on a time frame and can't miss that deadline. I DO want to build a killer box for CAD in a year or so when the whole time & muny thing isn't an issue. This instant in time requires it to just work. My guess is I will take what I'm getting into now and hot rod that as soon as it's practical. By then I will have a much better feel for what is necessary.

So, being back up against a wall of sorts, here goes..........

The box I'm putting in for (Dell xps8900) has an intel i-7 core @ 3.4ghz, 32gb ram @ 2.1ghz, 1tb 7200rpm hard drive, 4gb Nvideo graphics card, wireless connectivity, dvd/cd read/write and, unfortunately, Windows 10. A pretty snazzy (when's the last time you heard that word, eh?) starter package in my estimation. I figure it's a good platform to start from.

The only major sticking point will probably be the graphics card, but I don't see me doing a lot of high density drawings right away for classes. When shading, edge definition and lots of hidden surfaces become the norm then I see an upgrade in the wings. Extra memory is easy and cheap while upping to more ram is not so much so, but I will worry about that later. If processor speed becomes a problem, perhaps an SSD can help with that.

The yl encouraged me to splurge on a monitor so I brought home a 32" led 1080p HD Samsung tv today. It's bigger than my last TV! Nice! One HDMI cable away from super monitor.

If it weren't for you folks and your timely tips and advice I would still be fiddling with the last of my hair follicles wondering wtf had I got myself into. I am deeply appreciative to this group and it's generosity sharing hard earned wisdom & experience with me regarding what is arguably one of the biggest departures in my life to this point. So, to all the island natives involved, a hearty 5-9 + 20 FB THANK YOU!!

[WØTKX]

Learning 3D stuff will be hair raising. :snicker:

I'm jealous, really enjoyed doing that stuff for a paycheck.
Be fun to take some classes myself.

Lost myself in Blender for about four hours yesterday.
Ya bastid. :p

[WZ7U]

Dave,
You're welcome! And thank you.

Now I have to discover Blender. Bastid.

[WØTKX]

There is a ton of Blender stuff on YouTube, including tutorials.

Stick with SolidWorks for engineering gigs. But still Blender can do...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85u42COyM0I