German Fusion Reactor

[n2ize]

If this is true this could be the answer to most of the energy problems the world is now facing.

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/germany-just-successfully-fired-their-nuclear-fusion-reactor

[PA5COR]

Nope, too far away, and too early in the process.
WE need the sustainable energy now and there are enough ways to do that viable now and tested in practice.
The next "working" nuclear energy source is "just around the corner" which has been the mantra for the last 30 years.

[KK4AMI]

:-D Before I celebrate, find out if the Germans cheated on the software again.

[W5BRM]

Big power companies (oil, gas, coal) wont let it go forward. Chernobyl and Fukushima are the roadblock to continue with further major dependancy on nuclear power, even if "clean" .

[KG4NEL]

Big power companies (oil, gas, coal) wont let it go forward. Chernobyl and Fukushima are the roadblock to continue with further major dependancy on nuclear power, even if "clean" .

Only for people who don't understand the science.

[W3WN]

If this is true this could be the answer to most of the energy problems the world is now facing.

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/germany-just-successfully-fired-their-nuclear-fusion-reactor
I sure hope Volkswagen isn't involved...

[KG4NEL]

Meh, VW faked a few numbers for vehicles that would have been a heck of a lot cleaner than many, many thousands of untested diesels on the road currently. I can sleep at night. :mrgreen:

[W5BRM]

Only for people who don't understand the science.

Lol thats about 99% of the worlds population though

[n2ize]

Nope, too far away, and too early in the process.
WE need the sustainable energy now and there are enough ways to do that viable now and tested in practice.

True. We should be working on sustainable sources like wind, solar, geothermal and atomic fission now. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep working on contained fusion as it may play an important role in years to come.



The next "working" nuclear energy source is "just around the corner" which has been the mantra for the last 30 years.

I haven't delved into the project in depth so I have no way of knowing how true this is and/or how far away it is from becoming a practical source. However it may be the answer to our ever growing energy needs. Thus development must continue on this project and others like it. This is a major step in the right direction.

[PA5COR]

Why do you think oil is so cheap lately?
Overproduction, falling demands and a glut of oil hitting the markets that already have enough oil in stock to supply us for a year over.
Electricity from wind/solar already cheaper per KW/H as natural gas/oil/coal/nuclear produced electricity, tendency dropping even further.
Having nuclear fusing depending on cooled magnets running megawatts of electicity to maintain the containment field? what if the electricity supply gets cut?
Might produce quite good fireworks plasma of a million plus centigrade braking free, never see a wind turbine do that...;)

[KG4NEL]

True. We should be working on sustainable sources like wind, solar, geothermal and atomic fission now. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep working on contained fusion as it may play an important role in years to come.

A minor nit to pick, but current nuclear technology really isn't "sustainable". It's just passing the buck to people 10,000 years from now.

[WØTKX]

It runs stable for a longer period of time than the Tokomak (sp?) fusion reactors.

Not quite there yet, but look how far we've come with solar power in the past decade.
I'm also concerned with safety, but this is NOT your daddy's fission reactor. Not at all.

We need this kind of development. It's important. :agree:

[n2ize]

A minor nit to pick, but current nuclear technology really isn't "sustainable". It's just passing the buck to people 10,000 years from now.


Which is why this is an important step forward. Actually when perfected and made practical on a commercial scale atomic fusion is very sustainable. Instead of splitting the nuclei of heavy toxic elements like Uranium or Plutonium you are fusing hydrogen nuclei into helium. We have an abundant, i.e. pretty much limitless supply of hydrogen nuclei, and the entire process is much cleaner than fission. So basically there are many advantages to controlled fusion over fissions (i.e. limitless fuel supply, little or no nuclear waste produced, easier to shut down quickly than fission, much cleaner than fission, etc.). That's why this is a major step forward. Very likely energy from fusion will be the power source of future generations.

[PA5COR]

The test set up cost a billion euro's plus.
Lets see how many wind turbines or solar panels you can buy from that ;)
Last time I looked sun and wind were also in unlimited supply and free.
Price now for 1000KW wind turbine installed and all is about 1 million Euro.
SO 1 GW wind turbine power could have been installed for that price.

[K4PIH]

The price of oil is low right now because OPEC sees newer methods as a threat. They are worried that fracking and other methods of obtaining and refining what before was too expensive were going to eat into their monopoly. Look at the oil fields in Montana and other places that were boom a few years ago arenow bust. Think that's mere coincidence?

OPEC artificially cut the price of their oil to make other means too costly and now that it's cheap they can build that glut and keep the other methodes of energy production in a state of limbo. It's all part of their plan.

OPEC is willing to take the profit hit to maintain control of the production and the price.

[NQ6U]

http://i.imgur.com/xxdwSZf.jpg (http://imgur.com/xxdwSZf)

[PA5COR]

OPEC might have started the price cut to undermine the US glut of oil by fracking, but it went downhill from there.
As stated the demand for oil dropped dramatically, large supply's of oil sit in holding tanks enough to sullpy the world for a year of oil without added supply's.
China's production down, much less demand for oil and coal.
All OPEC states don't want to cut back production for loss of income, most are already using up stocked up money to balance the books...., having an budget set with the 110 dollar a barrel as basis.
The look at Saudia Arabia to cut production, but that won't happen.
The current winter is warm, dropping demand for oil even further as you can see at the market price dropping like a brick every day.

So, even if all OPEC members cut production to 0 barrels the stocked up supply needs a year to be used up....
And realistically OPEC countries won't cut production but even pump more to get more dollars for less dollars per barrel.
What once was the strength of OPEC became their Achilles heel now.

Even with these low prices of oil for at least a year or more, electricity from wind turbines and solar is cheaper as fossil fuel derived electricity.

Looking for a sign on the wall? most OPEC countries are heavily investing in solar and wind turbines... sitting on a glut of oil and gas....

[n2ize]

The test set up cost a billion euro's plus.
Lets see how many wind turbines or solar panels you can buy from that ;)
Last time I looked sun and wind were also in unlimited supply and free.
Price now for 1000KW wind turbine installed and all is about 1 million Euro.
SO 1 GW wind turbine power could have been installed for that price.

Of course. This is a research project. This is not being marketed yet as a commercial product. But from a technological standpoint it's a big step in the right direction.

[K0RGR]

I don't know whether to be alarmed or just what.

My daughter's semi-ancient Ford bit the dust, so she decided to buy a car for the first time. I took her car shopping a couple weeks ago, and after test driving most of the offerings out there, she settled on a Honda Civic as being the best fit for her in a number of ways. When we started to discuss buying the Civic, the salesman made the statement that he would have to check on a few things because they hadn't sold a Civic in weeks! Indeed, he said, all the buyers are buying their bigger cars now. Nobody cares about gas mileage now that we have 'cheap' gas.

OK, I have read about the resurgence in sales of big vehicles. But really, are Americans so dense that they can't understand what's going on? Once OPEC wipes out our domestic producers by dumping cheap oil, probably well below the cost of production, guess what's going to happen again.

Somehow, the lying snakes will find a way to blame this on not building their damned pipeline from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico, so they can refine the gas and export it more easily from there.

Indeed, daughter eventually found a nice Civic for a couple thousand dollars under Blue Book on it - which indicates a desperate salesman to me. But the SUV's are flying off the showroom floors. Caramba!

[n2ize]

I don't know whether to be alarmed or just what.

My daughter's semi-ancient Ford bit the dust, so she decided to buy a car for the first time. I took her car shopping a couple weeks ago, and after test driving most of the offerings out there, she settled on a Honda Civic as being the best fit for her in a number of ways. When we started to discuss buying the Civic, the salesman made the statement that he would have to check on a few things because they hadn't sold a Civic in weeks! Indeed, he said, all the buyers are buying their bigger cars now. Nobody cares about gas mileage now that we have 'cheap' gas.

OK, I have read about the resurgence in sales of big vehicles. But really, are Americans so dense that they can't understand what's going on? Once OPEC wipes out our domestic producers by dumping cheap oil, probably well below the cost of production, guess what's going to happen again.

Somehow, the lying snakes will find a way to blame this on not building their damned pipeline from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico, so they can refine the gas and export it more easily from there.

Indeed, daughter eventually found a nice Civic for a couple thousand dollars under Blue Book on it - which indicates a desperate salesman to me. But the SUV's are flying off the showroom floors. Caramba!

Hello climate change. looks like you'll be a welcome guest in Murca. Can't wait ti'll I have beachfront property a' la' SUV.

[PA5COR]

Developping Fusion is not what I have a problem with.
Just the notion that it will deliver energy at an reliable and safe way is miles off at least 20 - 30 years, in the mean time we have proven green resources that can deliver cheap environmentally green energy.
Dump the subsidizing of fossil fuel and spend that on green sources.

They are available and reliable now and here.
And that will make the largest dent in Co2 emissions right that moment, not some energy source that has to be developed in 20 - 30 years time.

[KK4AMI]

It is not just OPEC cutting prices, according to the news it's the US now producing more oil (Thank you, Mr Obama!) NBC reported that we should be at or below the $2.00 point for the next couple of years. That is why big car sales are up. IMHO, Mr Obama may have also indirectly addressed the Syrian/Iraq/ISIS problem. By forcing oil prices down, we are limiting the money ISIS can get to fund their Caliphate.

[PA5COR]

Short sighted people I think.
I buy cars that I keep for 10+ years, like the van I had, served me fine for 11 years.
The small Hyundai Atoz automatic gear car serves me well now, no need for big car, economy, cheap parts, galvanized body = no rust will serve me well, it is already 15 years old and will do another 10 + years, just clocked 50K miles on it.....my ex wife her's was sold running fine with 150K miles on it.
I drive 8K miles a year now, peanuts, keeping it well maintained and can do a lot of work on it myself.
A M.O.T every year, some maintenance costs, 40 euro a month on road tax and extended insurance is also peanuts.

[KC2UGV]

Why do you think oil is so cheap lately?
Overproduction, falling demands and a glut of oil hitting the markets that already have enough oil in stock to supply us for a year over.
Electricity from wind/solar already cheaper per KW/H as natural gas/oil/coal/nuclear produced electricity, tendency dropping even further.
Having nuclear fusing depending on cooled magnets running megawatts of electicity to maintain the containment field? what if the electricity supply gets cut?
Might produce quite good fireworks plasma of a million plus centigrade braking free, never see a wind turbine do that...;)

If the containment on a fusion reactor dies, then all that happens is the walls of the chamber melt, and then the hydrogen rapidly cools (Within seconds), and escapes into the atmosphere.

Nothing but dollars are lost.

[KC2UGV]

The test set up cost a billion euro's plus.
Lets see how many wind turbines or solar panels you can buy from that ;)
Last time I looked sun and wind were also in unlimited supply and free.
Price now for 1000KW wind turbine installed and all is about 1 million Euro.
SO 1 GW wind turbine power could have been installed for that price.

Wind turbines don't work so well in space... Solar panels barely have produce enough electricity at earth range to power an ion drive. Saturn range? Good luck with that.

[KG4NEL]

I don't know whether to be alarmed or just what.

My daughter's semi-ancient Ford bit the dust, so she decided to buy a car for the first time. I took her car shopping a couple weeks ago, and after test driving most of the offerings out there, she settled on a Honda Civic as being the best fit for her in a number of ways. When we started to discuss buying the Civic, the salesman made the statement that he would have to check on a few things because they hadn't sold a Civic in weeks! Indeed, he said, all the buyers are buying their bigger cars now. Nobody cares about gas mileage now that we have 'cheap' gas.

OK, I have read about the resurgence in sales of big vehicles. But really, are Americans so dense that they can't understand what's going on? Once OPEC wipes out our domestic producers by dumping cheap oil, probably well below the cost of production, guess what's going to happen again.

Somehow, the lying snakes will find a way to blame this on not building their damned pipeline from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico, so they can refine the gas and export it more easily from there.

Indeed, daughter eventually found a nice Civic for a couple thousand dollars under Blue Book on it - which indicates a desperate salesman to me. But the SUV's are flying off the showroom floors. Caramba!

I'm buying a truck that gets 15mpg, but then again, I've been getting that for the last decade :mrgreen:

[N2CHX]

are Americans so dense that they can't understand what's going on?

Yes.

As an aside... I still want my Elio. Even Scotty Kilmer likes the Elio.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30UG77zIzI4

[n2ize]

Developping Fusion is not what I have a problem with.
Just the notion that it will deliver energy at an reliable and safe way is miles off at least 20 - 30 years, in the mean time we have proven green resources that can deliver cheap environmentally green energy.
Dump the subsidizing of fossil fuel and spend that on green sources.

They are available and reliable now and here.
And that will make the largest dent in Co2 emissions right that moment, not some energy source that has to be developed in 20 - 30 years time.
Relatively speaking in terms of future energy needs 20-30 years is a very short time. If practical commercial fusion reactors can be available in 20-30 years , or even 30-60 years it will prove to be an invaluable energy source and well worth the investment we are putting into research today.

[WØTKX]

The Elio is very interesting.

A local ham I know is near the top of the list.

[ka4dpo]

Yes.

As an aside... I still want my Elio. Even Scotty Kilmer likes the Elio.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30UG77zIzI4

I wonder if they will ever go into production? Kind of a cool little car but it does look tippy and he didn't exactly drift it to prove the stability, probably as good as an old CJ-5 though.

[ka4dpo]

If this is true this could be the answer to most of the energy problems the world is now facing.

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/germany-just-successfully-fired-their-nuclear-fusion-reactor

That is interesting but even if the can get it to generate power it would still be totally impractical. Can you imagine running power lines all the way from Germany to here?:-D

[N8XE]

That is interesting but even if the can get it to generate power it would still be totally impractical. Can you imagine running power lines all the way from Germany to here?:-D

Lots of superconductors ;)

Jason N8XE

[NQ6U]

That is interesting but even if the can get it to generate power it would still be totally impractical. Can you imagine running power lines all the way from Germany to here?:-D

Power lines? Hey, this is the wireless age! They've already begun construction on the tower:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_ciencia/maccanney04_02.jpg

[HUGH]

Fusion is trying to reproduce the conditions on the sun where the temperature and pressure is Enormous. It's not surprising this isn't going to happen in a hurry so in the interim it is important to produce power by alternative means.
There are other types of nuclear generation including an idea of "tame" encapsulated, radioactive nuggets which you would use much as coal insofar as you dump a load into your furnace according to immediate needs and it doesn't go unstable. Personally I would not like to see it used domestically but it sounds OK for ships and commercial steam engines including turbines and so on.

[ka4dpo]

Fusion is trying to reproduce the conditions on the sun where the temperature and pressure is Enormous. It's not surprising this isn't going to happen in a hurry so in the interim it is important to produce power by alternative means.
There are other types of nuclear generation including an idea of "tame" encapsulated, radioactive nuggets which you would use much as coal insofar as you dump a load into your furnace according to immediate needs and it doesn't go unstable. Personally I would not like to see it used domestically but it sounds OK for ships and commercial steam engines including turbines and so on.

I'm partial to coal. It's emissions keep it from getting too cold here in winter.

[K0RGR]

It is not just OPEC cutting prices, according to the news it's the US now producing more oil (Thank you, Mr Obama!) NBC reported that we should be at or below the $2.00 point for the next couple of years. That is why big car sales are up. IMHO, Mr Obama may have also indirectly addressed the Syrian/Iraq/ISIS problem. By forcing oil prices down, we are limiting the money ISIS can get to fund their Caliphate.

Yes, and that's all goodness, but at the same time, drilling for new oil here has slowed to a halt, and the big oil producers in North Dakota are laying off workers in droves. Much of the profit has been taken out of it. Did you notice that Congress just repealed the ban on exportation of U.S. oil? There are people out there willing and able to pay more for our oil than Americans can or will. The pipeline to the Gulf was rejected, but Canada is still working on a pipeline from Alberta to Vancouver, so they can ship that oil to China and other Asian countries more cheaply. When that happens, the price here will increase.

The proposed pipeline from Canada to Louisiana would have taken all that Canadian oil, which is currently being refined at plants here in the north, and shipped it to refineries on the Gulf Coast, where the refined gasoline could be more easily exported to South America. I believe there would have been a net loss of thousands of jobs had that pipeline been built.

http://eaglefordtexas.com/news/id/161960/north-dakota-sees-declines-oil-production-ahead-prices-hit-seven-year-low/

Let's also consider what the lower oil prices are doing to the development of alternative energy. Thank goodness they re-authorized the small subsidy for wind power - that should stimulate some more expansion. Solar has been growing at a great pace, too.

I was at our newest grocery store the other day, and noticed that they have four 'electric vehicle charging stations' in the parking lot. These all have small wind turbines and solar panels on them - so much of the electricity is 'free'. Sadly, I wonder if there are four fully electric vehicles in town. I've seen a Leaf (which passed me like I was standing still on the freeway the other day) and a couple of Volts, though the local Chevy dealers don't handle them.

These charging stations are only slightly wider than a standard parking place, so there is no reason they could not add many more in a parking lot. Our downtown parking ramps have had them for several years now, too. In northern parts of this state, electrical outlets for car block heaters are pretty common (like in other cold climates), so electric vehicles there should not be a big challenge, either.

Oil has too many other uses, like plastics, to waste it all burning it to keep warm or haul our butts around, not to mention the environmental impact of burning it. We have abundant wind power here, and our electrical utility has already stated that they have enough capacity to handle the load if we all decided to switch to electric cars, particularly if most of them were charged overnight.