Classic Airliner circa 1954

[n2ize]

When people think of old airliners they often think of the Lockheed Constellation, or the early Lockheed L-188 Electra, or the DC3. All excellent reliable aircraft and state of the art for its day.

This video however is about another great airliner. Namely the Douglass DC7. Climb aboard as this DC-7 takes you from New York's Idlewild Airport to Los Angeles and travel in style.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Z-p9F96yk

[N7YA]

Thats a classic, for sure! I absolutely LOVE those old radial engines on start up. Its rare, but every so often, you can see one flying high above on their way to an airshow, you just cant mistake that sound, and how slow they really are. In Alaska, i saw them working, not just being used as demonstration or airshows, etc...but being used for cargo and passengers. It takes on a different vibe when its not being all gussied up for tourists to take pictures of. Instead, just sitting on the side of an overgrown runway with warming blankets over the cowling and oil stains down the wings. It will always be a special thing for me. :)

[K4PIH]

Nice post, thank you . Does an old Air Force guy good.

[n2ize]

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. I love old propliners. When I was a kid living in Brooklyn I remember the Constellations rumbling low overhead as they approached Idlewild or LaGuardia airport. That sound was awesome. Of course aroubnd that time they were gradually being replaced by jets. Back when Mohawk airlines (a small local NY based airline) was still in operation they had a fleet of DC3's that you would often see passing overhead. And later on they replaced the DC3's with a fleet of FH-227 turboprops.

[suddenseer]

Slow hawk better than Mohawk.

[NQ6U]

Radial engines are way cool, but they have this unfortunate tendency to disassemble themselves catastrophically at inopportune moments. Ask Harrison Ford about that; it happened to him quite recently.

[K7SGJ]

Radial engines are way cool, but they have this unfortunate tendency to disassemble themselves catastrophically at inopportune moments. Ask Harrison Ford about that; it happened to him quite recently.

If he'd of had a real engine in it, like a Merlin. it would have been no problem. He wouldn't have needed the plane. It's amazing what you can do with a Merlin and a prop. It's like Grandma used to say. "Pure fucking power". I do miss her, a lot.

[NQ6U]

If he'd of had a real engine in it, like a Merlin. it would have been no problem. He wouldn't have needed the plane. It's amazing what you can do with a Merlin and a prop. It's like Grandma used to say. "Pure fucking power". I do miss her, a lot.

Yeah, for sure. But a Merlin isn't a radial engine, of course, it's a V-12. A really, really big V-12. Water cooled rather than air cooled as well.

[K7SGJ]

He only had a 160 hp engine in that thing. If it were me, I'd yank a P&W R-2800 out of a Corsair and fly that bad boy to the moon, Alice. Of course, I'd have to add a nose wheel. Close to 2000 hp, that's even enough for Tim the toolmans' riding lawn mower.

[N7YA]

Maybe his rubber band broke.

[K7SGJ]

Maybe his rubber band broke.

He was in a band? Who Gnu?

[NQ6U]

He was in a band? Who Gnu?

You never heard of the Ford Falcons?

[N7YA]

He was in a band? Who Gnu?

Yeah, sometimes those uppity actors think they can be touring musicians or something...look what happens!!

[K7SGJ]

You never heard of the Ford Falcons?

I would have thought more like a Galaxie, far, far away. After all, Star Wars and what not. Actually, now that I think of it, he drove a Millennial Falcon, eh? Ford just stole the design.

[n2ize]

Many of these aircraft had their start in military service or commission and later transitioned to civilian service. Yeah, the piston airliners had their problems yet , for the most part, were still quite reliable and safe.

[ka4dpo]

I would have thought more like a Galaxie, far, far away. After all, Star Wars and what not. Actually, now that I think of it, he drove a Millennial Falcon, eh? Ford just stole the design.

That's all way in the Futura.

[KK4AMI]

Many of these aircraft had their start in military service or commission and later transitioned to civilian service. Yeah, the piston airliners had their problems yet , for the most part, were still quite reliable and safe.

... and they were noisy as all git out! As a child I use to travel by Convair and Constellation. The Stewardess would issue those pink bubble gum ear plugs instead of today's headphones. Try a 14 hour flight overseas with those props beating the air at 18,000 feet. I think that is why I have tinnitus today.

[ka4dpo]

In 1958 my dad got transferred to Minneapolis for a year, he worked for Ford Motor Company at the time. We flew a Constellation from LA to Minneapolis and back again the next year. I don't remember a great deal but I do remember that I thought the plane was huge. I also remember that on the way home the cabin heat broke and we had to land in Denver for about four hours while they fixed it. It was so cold in the plane we thought we were going to freeze to death.

[WX7P]

In 1958 my dad got transferred to Minneapolis for a year, he worked for Ford Motor Company at the time. We flew a Constellation from LA to Minneapolis and back again the next year. I don't remember a great deal but I do remember that I thought the plane was huge. I also remember that on the way home the cabin heat broke and we had to land in Denver for about four hours while they fixed it. It was so cold in the plane we thought we were going to freeze to death.

Have you seen one in person since?

I saw a Connie at the old Castle Air Base and I was surprised at how small it seemed.

I'm wondering if you had the same experience.

[K7SGJ]

There are several Connies at Falcon Field in Mesa. They have one that is in an AWACS configuration. An EC-121. Damnedest looking thing, but still way cool.

13772

There was this configuration, too.

13773

When I was little, my Grandma used to take me to the airport to watch the planes come and go. At that time, the Connies seemed to be behemoths, especially to a small kid. But seeing them today, especially near a 747 or any other heavy, they just aren't all that big. But to this old man, they are still impressive, and very, very cool.

[KK4AMI]

Yes they were smaller (about the same size as the first Boeing 707), but the 60 to 90 people that flew in them did not feel like cattle. Notice the isle is wide enough to save your elbows. In the early 60s, my Mother would find the cheapest "Charter" flights to go over to Germany to see my Grand Parents. These charter airlines were picking up old used Connies from the main airlines as they were dumping them for B-707s. Sometimes I think we flew more on a prayer then a wing.

13779

[n2ize]

Speaking of the Constellations here is an awesome video in color. In this video Captain Arthur Godfrey flies a Constellation from Idlewild airport in NY to Miami Florida. There is some great footage not just of the exterior but also of the inside of the cabin, the controls, instruments, engineering panel, takeoff, landing, and cruising. In the video Captain Godfrey discusses the future of commercial aviation and jet travel with captain Eddie Rickenbacker the famous WW1 flying ace. Oh, and don;t forget the most important thing, When you reach cruising altitude in a Constellation it's time for a Chesterfield. On deck you buy em by the carton.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6VfkKjlhXs

[N7YA]

The Connie always was, and always will be, one of my all time favorites. When i was a kid, my dad had the chance to help a guy named Ken Fish dismantle an old TWA Super Connie that was sitting next to the runway, halfway in the woods, at Anchorage International. He was going to move it by train up to the Transportation Museum in Palmer. So any chance i got to tag along and hang out with the old bird, i jumped at! The cockpit was mostly gutted and dirty with some old soda cans, but the seats were there. I used to sit at those worn out controls and pretend i was flying it out over the Pacific. The back was stripped out for cargo, which was its last assignment.

I had quite a few old pictures of it, but only one remains that ive seen in my boxes in recent years. Once i get settled in up in Maine, i need to dig that out, scan it and post it.

[NM5TF]

my very 1st plane ride was in a DC-3....on leave going home to LA....

flew from Little Rock, AR to Dallas, TX....then on to Denver, CO...

next leg Denver, CO to LAX was in a TWA Super Connie....I remember

sitting in a window seat watching the blue flames come out the top mounted exhaust stacks on take off...

[VE7DCW]

Thats a classic, for sure! I absolutely LOVE those old radial engines on start up. Its rare, but every so often, you can see one flying high above on their way to an airshow, you just cant mistake that sound, and how slow they really are. In Alaska, i saw them working, not just being used as demonstration or airshows, etc...but being used for cargo and passengers. It takes on a different vibe when its not being all gussied up for tourists to take pictures of. Instead, just sitting on the side of an overgrown runway with warming blankets over the cowling and oil stains down the wings. It will always be a special thing for me. :)

The fun is watching it's smaller predecessor the DC-6, converted from passenger aircraft to fire retardant aerial tanker fighting forest fires! ........ I saw them perform with those beautiful radial engines just a screaming flying for Conair Aviation on a few forest fires around here a few years ago......they were awesome performers! It was too bad they started phasing them out when the reduced availibility of AV gas became an issue to run those radials from some of the bigger airports around the province........shame.... :roll:

[K7SGJ]

The fun is watching it's smaller predecessor the DC-6, converted from passenger aircraft to fire retardant aerial tanker fighting forest fires! ........ I saw them perform with those beautiful radial engines just a screaming flying for Conair Aviation on a few forest fires around here a few years ago......they were awesome performers! It was too bad they started phasing them out when the reduced availibility of AV gas became an issue to run those radials from some of the bigger airports around the province........shame.... :roll:

You have planes in Canada? Who Gnu?

Just remember, the radial engines are round, just like your bacon.

[VE7DCW]

You have planes in Canada? Who Gnu?

Just remember, the radial engines are round, just like your bacon.

Talking dung heap or the perhaps the other way.......taxing my "politeness" I see......... radial engines are not like bacon ...... but Eddie you can think of them any you want ......... :nuts:

[K7SGJ]

Talking dung heap or the perhaps the other way.......taxing my "politeness" I see......... radial engines are not like bacon ...... but Eddie you can think of them any you want ......... :nuts:


Just trying to see how far we can push you until you lose it. Are we getting close yet? :stickpoke:

[N7YA]

I see nobody has brought up Quebec.

[VE7MGF]

"brought up Quebec" is that like vomiting ?

[VE7DCW]

Just trying to see how far we can push you until you lose it. Are we getting close yet? :stickpoke:

All in fun........so keep pushing away,and btw I don't "lose it"

Basically, I thought I was doing the poking.......but I'll have to do a better job of it........ :snicker:


:stickpoke:

[n2ize]

Notice the change in prop pitch and the addition of the superchargers when the approached cruise altitude. Then of course, the "Chesterfield Break". :) "No Arthur, I don't smoke" said the copilot. At least the engineer was a smoker.

[NQ6U]

The thing that makes the Constellation so sexy is that lovely curved fuselage. Nothing else like it before or since.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/ElCentro2004/Sampler/ConstellationBanking11oClock.jpg

[n2ize]

The thing that makes the Constellation so sexy is that lovely curved fuselage. Nothing else like it before or since.


Except for a woman.

[K7SGJ]

Except for a woman.

Yeah, but the women don't have three tails, at least the ones I dated didn't.

[suddenseer]

Yeah, but the women don't have three tails, at least the ones I dated didn't.You dated the wrong women. At least the men I dated had better looking tails.

[N8YX]

Loud aircraft, you say? This thing generates so much noise that our SOSUS arrays can pick them up in flight.

13794

[N8YX]

Civilian (passenger) derivative of the Bear; the TU-114. It too was loud as hell:

13795

[N8YX]

I would love to build a racing plane around one of the turboprops used in those two designs.

[suddenseer]

Loud aircraft, you say? This thing generates so much noise that our SOSUS arrays can pick them up in flight.

13794Living in the approach lane of WPAFB, and Dayton Air Show, I am accustomed to hearing/seeing all kinds of classic aircraft. The 100 year old Curtis Jenny was awesome!

[n2ize]

Civilian (passenger) derivative of the Bear; the TU-114. It too was loud as hell:

13795

Turboprops were inherently loud. This particular one included a dual contrarotational prop system which probably added significantly to the noise factor. BTW is was one of the fastest propliners ever built. It's speeds matched many of the early jets. It also had an excellent safety record.

[n2ize]

BTW the swept wing design of the TU-114 was another interesting design for a propliner. Outside of jets most virtually all propliners were straight wing design

[K7SGJ]

BTW the swept wing design of the TU-114 was another interesting design for a propliner. Outside of jets most virtually all propliners were straight wing design


I always thought the gull wing design of the F4U Corsair was really cool looking.

[n2ize]

Here ya go. This is the Mohawk Airlines "Gaslighter" DC3.

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR36.jpg

[n2ize]

And here is what it was like aboard the Mohawk DC3 "Gaslighter".

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR45.jpg

[K7SGJ]

Here ya go. This is the Mohawk Airlines "Gaslighter" DC3.

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR36.jpg

I've been up in DC-3s several times. A very cool experience. The hard part is getting to your seat. Being a tail dragger, the isle is so steep, you kind of slide to you seat. And the wind up prior to taxi is awesome. Especially at night. Smoke and fire belching and backfiring from the engines is something to behold. But as soon as you get up to speed on the runway, they smooth right out and the ride is sweet.

[ka4dpo]

And here is what it was like aboard the Mohawk DC3 "Gaslighter".

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR45.jpg

Kind of the 50's version of Hooters on wings.

[ka4dpo]

I like the old Eastern airline video. I remember flying on Eastern for years and when they went under I think they resurfaced as US Airways.

So Arthur Godfrey used to live here in Leesburg, VA. The local airport which is about five miles from my house is named after him, Leesburg Godfrey airport. Art used to fly his DC-3 in and out of here all the time and it was well known that he liked to tipple a bit of gin now and then. Sometime in the late 50's he got high before he flew and buzzed the tower several times to show off for some friends. Consequently he was barred from his own airport and I don't think he ever used it again. According to some of the old folks around here he was not a very nice man.

[N7YA]

"brought up Quebec" is that like vomiting ?

That depends on if you are from QC, if so, then there is no better place and the world should bow to your greatness. If you not from QC, then yes it is like vomiting.

[N7YA]

Except for a woman.

John, we are hams...we dont usually end up with those. Airplanes will have to do. :-|

[N7YA]

Here ya go. This is the Mohawk Airlines "Gaslighter" DC3.

http://www.postcardpost.com/MwkR36.jpg

I wanted to know whatever happened to the Gaslighter. I guess it was withdrawn from service in 1969...not sure what happened to it after that. I show N409D as currently being a Kingair B300.

[n2ize]

I like the old Eastern airline video. I remember flying on Eastern for years and when they went under I think they resurfaced as US Airways.

So Arthur Godfrey used to live here in Leesburg, VA. The local airport which is about five miles from my house is named after him, Leesburg Godfrey airport. Art used to fly his DC-3 in and out of here all the time and it was well known that he liked to tipple a bit of gin now and then. Sometime in the late 50's he got high before he flew and buzzed the tower several times to show off for some friends. Consequently he was barred from his own airport and I don't think he ever used it again. According to some of the old folks around here he was not a very nice man.

I have heard the same from many people. Many people described him (Godfrey) as obnoxious, overly pretentious, and in general not a pleasant person to be around. All I remember of him was that during the 1960's and into the mid-late 1970's he had a radio show on CBS AM that came on the air in the afternoons for an hour or so. Even in the video I sensed a bit of discontent towards Godfrey from the first officer. However, nonetheless I found the video enjoyable and interesting. And near the end Captain Rickenbacker had the future of air travel pegged down perfectly, except for the helicopter shuttles which never materialized in a big way. Although here in NYC we did have a helicopter that took off from the roof of the Pan Am building and shuttled people to the airports and back. However, that was discontinued after a helicopter tipped and a blade struck the roof and snapped off and the blade flew clear off the roof and landed in the street several blocks away injuring several people (one fatality as well if I remember).

[n2ize]

I wanted to know whatever happened to the Gaslighter. I guess it was withdrawn from service in 1969...not sure what happened to it after that. I show N409D as currently being a Kingair B300.

I believe Mohawk sold off their entire fleet of DC3's, including the Gaslighter and replaced them with FH-227 turboprops (or as they called them "Vista Jets"). Perhaps the Gaslighter was later scrapped, being that it's registration no longer matches. Or perhaps it was put into service outside of the USA.

[suddenseer]

I have never flown in a large prop aircraft. I have been in the smaller turboprop commuter craft like from Denver to Durango. I was born too late. It seems when I was a little kid flying was a luxury. Nowadays it is just like a bus ride.

[KK4AMI]

I wanted to know whatever happened to the Gaslighter. I guess it was withdrawn from service in 1969...not sure what happened to it after that. I show N409D as currently being a Kingair B300.

Bermuda Triangle would you believe? Do-do-do-do .

Oops, I got the wrong tail number. Should'a been N409D

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780921-0

[KK4AMI]

N409D was sold to Houston Aviation Products. Eventually the registration was canceled (Aircraft was condemned due to accident or maintenance issues)

http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=72257

Probably rotting off the end of a runway in Texas.
(http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/AirframeDossier.php?Serial=72257)

[N7YA]

I know that Mohawk switched out to the F-227's, and one crashed into a mountain (oddly named 'Pilot Knob'), then struggled to stay afloat...hard to do when that happens. They had 4 major crashes between 1963 and 1972. Allegheny bought them out after that.

I never got to fly in an old radial, the first plane i flew in was as a 5 year old, was a DC-8 on United. But i did fly in a C-141, that was fun. Kind of like being shipped in a noisy refrigerator.

[KG4NEL]

Many of these aircraft had their start in military service or commission and later transitioned to civilian service. Yeah, the piston airliners had their problems yet , for the most part, were still quite reliable and safe.

Being completely deaf at the end of the trip is my idea of business travel.

It'd help a lot with meetings I don't want to be in.

[n2ize]

I know that Mohawk switched out to the F-227's, and one crashed into a mountain (oddly named 'Pilot Knob'), then struggled to stay afloat...hard to do when that happens. They had 4 major crashes between 1963 and 1972. Allegheny bought them out after that.


Mohawk , like most airlines, had its share of accidents. In 1963 they lost a Martin 404. Later on the lost a BAC-1-11 and in 1972 they lost an FH-227 from LaGuardia to Albany. I remember the 1972 crash. It was a cold cloudy night with sleet falling in my area and I was riiding my bike and struggling home hoping I wouldn't skid and break my neck on the ice. Meanwhile about the same time a little over 100 miles north of me a Mohawk FH-227 approaching Albany airport was struggling to make the runway. They didn't and wound up smashing into a private home a couple of miles short of thhe runway. I remember hearing about it on the radio when I got home. Fortunately some passengers survived and the stewardess survived and lives to recount her memories of that horrible night.



I never got to fly in an old radial, the first plane i flew in was as a 5 year old, was a DC-8 on United. But i did fly in a C-141, that was fun. Kind of like being shipped in a noisy refrigerator.

Only prop driven aircraft I have flown in was a single engine Cessna, a Piper Cub, and a helicopter. unfortunately I missed the golden age of aviation.

[K7SGJ]

Mohawk , like most airlines, had its share of accidents. In 1963 they lost a Martin 404. Later on the lost a BAC-1-11 and in 1972 they lost an FH-227 from LaGuardia to Albany. I remember the 1972 crash. It was a cold cloudy night with sleet falling in my area and I was riiding my bike and struggling home hoping I wouldn't skid and break my neck on the ice. Meanwhile about the same time a little over 100 miles north of me a Mohawk FH-227 approaching Albany airport was struggling to make the runway. They didn't and wound up smashing into a private home a couple of miles short of thhe runway. I remember hearing about it on the radio when I got home. Fortunately some passengers survived and the stewardess survived and lives to recount her memories of that horrible night.



Only prop driven aircraft I have flown in was a single engine Cessna, a Piper Cub, and a helicopter. unfortunately I missed the golden age of aviation.

Maybe someone will treat you to a golden shower instead.

[VE7DCW]

Maybe someone will treat you to a golden shower instead.

Eddie......... there you go with that "I piss on you" attitude again :hahano:

[K7SGJ]

Eddie......... there you go with that "I piss on you" attitude again :hahano:

Yeah, but he will get that warm, fuzzy feeling........briefly.

[NQ6U]

Eddie......... there you go with that "I piss on you" attitude again :hahano:

Eddie lives in the parched desert of central Arizona, where any fluid is considered priceless.

[K4PIH]

They were also pretty fast for a prop driven passenger aircraft. The one in USAF schema looks to be a "solo" bird. The AF used connies for flying radio and tv platforms up until the mid 70's. Fast, had good loiter time, and could carry all that heavy crt tv equipment.

The connie was also the first regularly scheduled flyer in and out of Groom Lake (area 51). Kelly Johnson didn't want his people flying in and out of there on anything else.


There are several Connies at Falcon Field in Mesa. They have one that is in an AWACS configuration. An EC-121. Damnedest looking thing, but still way cool.

13772

There was this configuration, too.

13773

When I was little, my Grandma used to take me to the airport to watch the planes come and go. At that time, the Connies seemed to be behemoths, especially to a small kid. But seeing them today, especially near a 747 or any other heavy, they just aren't all that big. But to this old man, they are still impressive, and very, very cool.

[n2ize]

Let me tell you. Flying planes and airliners whether they be prop driven or jets is the life. I can't think of any better fullfillment than to pilot the great ships of the air from town to town or from continent to continent, whether it be via ultralight, small plane, helicopter, multi-engine, supersonic, etc. Flying is the life to live.

[KG4NEL]

Let me tell you. Flying planes and airliners whether they be prop driven or jets is the life. I can't think of any better fullfillment than to pilot the great ships of the air from town to town or from continent to continent, whether it be via ultralight, small plane, helicopter, multi-engine, supersonic, etc. Flying is the life to live.

From the few I've known that do it, commuter flying is sheer hell, but once you get to the major carriers it's alright.

[N7YA]

From the few I've known that do it, commuter flying is sheer hell, but once you get to the major carriers it's alright.

Dammit! You're ruining it!!

[W3WN]

I like the old Eastern airline video. I remember flying on Eastern for years and when they went under I think they resurfaced as US Airways.
< snip >Please don't sully the memory of Eastern that way.

When Eastern was liquidated, American Airlines got most of their routes. But before that happened, Continental and Texas Air (all three had common ownership/control at that point) had already taken over many of their routes.

[KG4NEL]

Dammit! You're ruining it!!

DC-6 drivers were probably denizens of the crashpad culture too, when they weren't banging married stewardesses or popping bennies or whatever else you did in the '50s when you weren't being the All-American Father.

[KG4NEL]

That reminds me, Fate is the Hunter is a good read.

[N7YA]

DC-6 drivers were probably denizens of the crashpad culture too, when they weren't banging married stewardesses or popping bennies or whatever else you did in the '50s when you weren't being the All-American Father.

NOOOO!!! I cant listen to this...everyone knows the 50's were pure and innocent. That was the way life should be...perfect and squeeky clean! It only got ruined when rap music was invented...or Carter...one of those things, but still!!


Yeah, i might want to read that book, though. :yes: ...im always game for a good book.