Finally Got My Train-Sim Working on Fedora 21

[n2ize]

Well, I finally got my OpenBve train (subway) simulator working again. As I described in a prior thread when I upgraded from Fedora 20 to 21 the train-sim broke. Turns out the problem was in one of the mono rpm packages that are included in the Fedora 21 distro. So I did a


$ yum remove mono-core

which removed the core mono package and it's dependencies. Then I downloaded the older mono packages from Fedora 20 and installed each one directly via


$ rpm -ivh --nodeps mono-<package-name>.f20.x86_64.rpm.

I did this for each of the mono packages and then fired up the sim and viola' it runs perfectly. So apparently it is either a bug in the new mono packages or the new version of mono is no longer compatable with OpenBve.

So, now I can go ahead and upgrade my main system to Fedora 21. I'll just have to make sure to downgrade the mono packages to the older versions after upgrading from F20 to F21.

Now, a question. Is there a way to make sure that yum doesn't upgrade the mono packages during routine updates ? Just wondering if there is someplace in the yum configuration where I can specify specific packages that I want to be left alone ?

Also wondering if there is a way to tell "fedup" to leave the older mono packages when upgrading the entire system.

[NM5TF]

if you use yum extender, you will get a list of potential updates & the choice to install/upgrade or not....look for/install yumex

[w6tmi]

In /etc/yum.conf you can put a exclude=package*

Or on the commandline:
yum -y --exclude=package\* update (the \* escapes the * char, otherwise it would try to match files on your filesystem.)

[n2ize]

Okay, thanks for both responses. I am going to install both the yum extender as well as excluding the "mono" packages I don't want updated via yum.conf (or perhaps yum-extender will do that automagicaly). In any event thanks for the responses. Glad to have my sim back up and running.

P.S. I am also going to need the yum extender to make up for the graphical "apper" application which still remains broken under Fedora 21.

[w6tmi]

I had to do that when I was running MythTV. Don't know if they ever fixed that package I stopped playing with it.

[n2ize]

I had to do that when I was running MythTV. Don't know if they ever fixed that package I stopped playing with it.

Yeah, I had a few apps that I created using C+ and Qt and they broke when a newer version of Qt came out. The only fix was to patch my apps as they were simply no longer compatable with newer Qt libraries. In this case OpenBve is not being fixed to work with the newer versions of mono so the only solution is to continue using the older versions. Development of OpenBve is extremely slow on all platforms.

[kb2vxa]

"Now, a question. Is there a way to make sure that yum doesn't upgrade the mono packages during routine updates ?"
Maybe making the files read only would be easier?

That reminds me of Scott W2SJW being an avid gamer and having fun with Train Sim, being an avid railfan with loads of pictures I helped him rework rolling stock to look just like the real thing. He having some Addams blood in him drove like Casey Jones creating some spectacular wrecks and sent screenshots of flying trains having me ROTFLOL. Speaking of flying trains, the engineer and conductor of this CN freight went on a Nantucket Sleigh Ride after hitting a rock slide. They had only a few bumps and scrapes and the engineer was heard commenting to rescuers "Wow, what a ride!"

[n2ize]

"Now, a question. Is there a way to make sure that yum doesn't upgrade the mono packages during routine updates ?"
Maybe making the files read only would be easier?

In the case of package management that wouldn't be a good way to go about it. Each rpm package contains numerous (maybe hundreds) of different files including libraries config files, symlinks, directories, data files , etc in different locations . Not to mention dependencies. You would have to reference each file that the package installs and change them to all read only. Furthermore, some of the files, such as config files and binary executables and data files need write and execute privileges otherwise they won't work. And even then if they were all read only the package manager would still try to update them and then balk with a load of errors when it finds it cannot replace any of the files. The proper way and easier way in this case is to configure the package manager so that it excludes the specific packages and doesn't try to update them.

For independent packages that are installed outside of the rpm or yum (such as tarballs) setting some of the stuff to read only might be an option to prevent them from being accidentally erased. But in this latter case the package manager won't try to update them because they are installed independently and outside of the realm of the package management system.

[n2ize]

That reminds me of Scott W2SJW being an avid gamer and having fun with Train Sim, being an avid railfan with loads of pictures I helped him rework rolling stock to look just like the real thing. He having some Addams blood in him drove like Casey Jones creating some spectacular wrecks and sent screenshots of flying trains having me ROTFLOL. Speaking of flying trains, the engineer and conductor of this CN freight went on a Nantucket Sleigh Ride after hitting a rock slide. They had only a few bumps and scrapes and the engineer was heard commenting to rescuers "Wow, what a ride!"

Many of the NYC Subway trains in OpenBve look pretty darned real inside and out with 3D cabs, animated doors, passing scenery, Unfortunately crashes in OpenBve aren't that dramatic, usually the trains just hit and then tip over and make weird sounds like the hissing of broken train lines. I only had one major crash in OpenBve. I was driving an pre-overhaul R32 types set of 10 cars on the uptown F train express through Queens and I was sleepy and I missed a red signal as I was coming in to Jamaica 179th street (last stop) About 3 second later I saw a stationary R32 ahead of me stopped in the 179th street station. I slammed on the emergency brakes but I still plowed into the back end of the stopped train at about 30 mph. I was traveling at around 50 mph (overspeed) before I realized what was about to happen and hit the emergency brakes. Unfortunately OpenBve doesn't feature working trippers to stop you automatically. However it does have working automatic signals and timers.

[kb2vxa]

I didn't know it was one of those programs that leaves pussyprints all over the drive, then read only isn't an option.

So how the hell did you manage to crash a NYCTA train? Oh yeah, the one who created that sim doesn't know about the trip arm that pops up when a signal goes red. Next question; how do you add ATC?

[n2ize]

I didn't know it was one of those programs that leaves pussyprints all over the drive, then read only isn't an option.


Exactly, I am talking about packages that may install a program (application) along with whatever dependencies are required, or might just install libraries, header and development files, So the easiest way it to tell the package manager not to update a particular package if you do need an older version.



So how the hell did you manage to crash a NYCTA train?


I was tired, I was going 20 mph too fast, and, I missed a red sig.



Oh yeah, the one who created that sim doesn't know about the trip arm that pops up when a signal goes red.


The problem is that OpenBve wasn't designed specifically for the NYCTA. It was primarilly designed to accurately and realistically simulate the physics of train motion in general, i.e acceleration rates, braking, and their dependence on overall weight, speed, etc. That part it does extremely well. It also maintains a detailed blackbox which accurately logs acceleration rates, speed, throttle and brake application, etc. Essentially OpenBve is the underlying engine and the train routes and trains are add-on's that are developed by the user community. For example it can run some Amtrack routes, European rail lines, Tokyo subways, or whatever other routes and trains users have designed. As it turned out a bunch of NYCTA railfans adopted it in a big way and started developing NYC subway routes and all sorts of trains ranging from 1920's Low V cars right on up through modern R160's. While OpenBve does support working signals it unfortunately OpenBve at present doesn't support the use of tripper arms. There are tripper arms along the tracks at signal points but they are presently for realistic appearance but they don't actually function. Perhaps in a future and more robust version it will. Just about all the developers are mega subway fanatics and they do know about tripper arms and all the nuances of the system. Some of them even work for NYCTA. It's just that the present state of the software won't accommodate functional trippers. At least not yet.


Next question; how do you add ATC?

By pressing CTRL-A it will put the train in automatic mode. The train will run automatically stopping at stations, stopping at red signals, and slowing down for speed restriction zones and timer signals. When it's in automatic mode you can switch to interior view and ride your train as a passenger. Or you can position youself at a station and watch your train approach, stop, open the doors, close them and pull out of stations.

As a point of interest the NYC Transit Museum has a few computers running OpenBve so that visitors, and in particular young visitors, can get to run the sim and get a feel for what it's like to operate a train on one of the many routes that has been developed. As you can probably guess route development can take a long time, up to several years to develop an accurate route with proper and accurate distances, curves, grades, switches, signal locations, speed limits, station designs, etc. Most of the routes are pretty darned accurate. I can run a train on a route following all signals and posted speeds and keep perfect schedule with the real thing.

[kb2vxa]

...or you can do what a kid did some years ago, operate the real thing. It's been to long to recall details but he was so good at it the passengers never noticed, he ran the route like a trained motorman. I don't remember the windup but all's well that ends well.

That takes me back to the good old days in the PRR engine yard in South Amboy, NJ where they were parked between 2:00am and 5:00am when there was no passenger service. "Playing engineer" aboard the EMD E unit Diesels was more realistic with vibration from the idling prime movers than the GG-1 electrics that just sat there silently. Then one night sitting in a G I noticed a clear signal in front of me, if only I had a brake handle. (;->) Seriously no! For the benefit of non railfans, in older units the brake handle was the "key", when moved full over and removed traction power is disabled, brakes on and the locomotive cannot be moved.

[n2ize]

I've driven electric trains but never operated a diesel. That kid must have had some previous experience, perhaps from a relative or someone if he was able to handle a real diesel that well. Getting used to the "feel" of the train is tricky and takes some time. A while back there was a stir over passengers who claimed they saw a kid inside the cab of a NYC subway train. It appears the train operator (who may have been his Mom or a relative) was teaching him how to operate it. Not quite in line with transit regulations.

[kb2vxa]

"A while back there was a stir over passengers who claimed they saw a kid inside the cab of a NYC subway train.
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
"It appears the train operator (who may have been his Mom or a relative) was teaching him how to operate it."
No, he was alone.
"Not quite in line with transit regulations."
No kidding? (;->)

I never operated but I got a few cab rides, not on the subway though. I wouldn't want to get squished in there, did you ever see how small it is with the door closed? A friend did get to operate a switcher delivering cars on factory sidings. Some steam scenic railroads offer footplate specials where fans operate for a price, all day long for a bigger price, too rich for my blood unfortunately. One of the highlights is cooking lunch on the coal scoop, WOOT!

BTW there's a Big Boy at the B&O Museum in Baltimore, they don't call it that for nothing. The firebox is so big the Boy Scouts could have a Camporee in there! It was a dark and stormy night when we were all sitting around the campfire and someone said "Hey Warren, tell us a story." Then I said "It was a dark and stormy night when we were all sitting around the campfire.......