Self-Justification

[W3WN]

So tell me what impression this leaves you about this person...

End of last week, I get an email from a potential candidate for the club's next VE Test Session, which will be at our hamfest at the end of the month. No problem, I reply to him with the usual spiel about what to bring. Including 2 forms of ID, and copies of them that we send in with the paperwork, as the club team has always done.

Monday, I get an email from the ARRL VEC. Seems the candidate contacted them about some concerns. Turns out that our procedure on this is obsolete... newer rules now state only 1 photo ID, and we don't have to submit copies of anything; in fact, they never look at those copies. (We're not the only VE team that isn't/wasn't aware of this change, but that's another story). Only copies of an existing license or CSCE are now requested. OK. No big deal, and that makes it easier on us, so fine.

So... I come back from lunch today, and I have a long, rambling email from the candidate. It starts off sounding like an apology for getting us in trouble with the VEC (we're not), and then goes on... and on... and on. Essentially, the impression one gets is that he's justifying why he contacted the VEC and complained about our procedure. That, and how tough the other clubs have been on him, and how tough life's been since he retired... stuff like that.

I didn't have a problem before, but frankly, this email makes me uneasy. Is he feeling "guilty" over "turning us in" and is afraid we might take "revenge" of some kind? (Really?) Do I have a control freak on my hands, or just someone whose retired, bored, and looking for things to do? And does this imply that everything we do at the exam will be scrutinized for "fairness", and if something doesn't go the way he thinks it should, is he going to complain about it?

...FWIW, since we're going to have plenty of VE's on hand -- I want to rotate people in & out so that no one is away from the hamfest for too long -- I think it's best that I don't personally handle this guy's test & exam. This is just not sitting well with me, and it's probably best that I remove myself from a potential accusation, if you know what I mean.

Thoughts?

[NQ6U]

Sounds like a lonely person who just wants an ear to bend about how fucked up his life is. I agree that you should recuse yourself from this guy's exam, for no other reason than appearance sake; you don't want to be the one who announces the results should he fail.

[PA5COR]

^ What the Pope said....

[W2NAP]

^ What the Pope said....

yep, pretty much

[W3WN]

Yeah, I can see that.

OK. I'll treat him accordingly for the time being, pending evidence to the contrary.

That's why I needed a fresh perspective on the situation.

Gracias.

[KG4NEL]

just someone whose retired, bored, and looking for things to do?

This explains 90% of questionable ham behavior...

[N2CHX]

What they said. Fer gawd's sake get him on the air ASAP so he can get on 75 meters and bitch about old guy stuff along with all the other old guys. Apologies to all you old guys. :snicker:

[kb2vxa]

I was going to mention 75 (AM Gangstas excepted) but Kel beat me to it. Meanwhile a strategic retreat is in order, let somebody else handle the exam. Methinks thou doth protest too much, but better to err on the side of caution.

Speaking of da Gangstas, Hiram W1OB the old buzzard of Buzzard's Bay, MA (a WA1 Henry Yell ARRR impersonation) really cracked me up as did all of Tim's antics.

[KJ3N]

What they said. Fer gawd's sake get him on the air ASAP so he can get on 75 meters and bitch about old guy stuff along with all the other old guys. Apologies to all you old guys. :snicker:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vZrAHGzk--/193768bif7rz2jpg.jpg

[kd6nig]

Honestly I think the guy has too much time on his hands. But the "issues with other clubs" thing makes me wonder.

I agree with everything everyone else has stated. I'd just steer clear in general if at all possible.

Its sounding like someone has had issues that have caused him to overly research things....

[K7SGJ]

I could be full of shit, but I think you should just say fuck it, tear up your license, sell all your radio shit, take up canasta, and chase pigeons in the park.

[NA4BH]

I could be full of shit, but I think you should just say fuck it, tear up your license, sell all your radio shit, take up canasta, and chase pigeons in the park.

Take up canasta? What if he doesn't dance?
Chase pigeons in the park? Have you caught any yet?
You could be full of shit? YES

[KG4CGC]

Honestly I think the guy has too much time on his hands. But the "issues with other clubs" thing makes me wonder.

I agree with everything everyone else has stated. I'd just steer clear in general if at all possible.

Its sounding like someone has had issues that have caused him to overly research things....
THIS! (emphasis mine)
Don't want a problem child? Don't bring one in. Pass on this one.

[KJ3N]

I could be full of shit, but I think you should just say fuck it, tear up your license, sell all your radio shit, take up canasta, and chase pigeons in the park.
Chase pigeons in the park? Have you caught any yet?

One does not chase pigeons in the park, when there are more practical things to do with them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59tKpTFlaME

[suddenseer]

I used to be a contact ARRL. and W5YI VE. I was asked to help a fellow "handicapped" ham with administering a code exam, and written elements that would upgrade him from Tech to Extra. He had a 610 form already with his Dr's signature for the medical exemption. He wanted to take the 13 wpm receiving exam if he failed the 20 wpm sending exam. I found 2 other VE's on our team that had no problem having an exam session at this person's home. We made the obligatory public announcement on a local wide area repeater. No one else showed up for the exam session. Upon arrival, he indicated that he did not want to use the medical code exemption unless it was absolutely necessary. He took the 20WPM receiving exam first, and failed miserably. He could not send at 20WPM either. He had 3 examiners who were CW geeks who all got the exact same copy on our transcriptions of his sending. We administered the 13 WPM copying exam, he failed the written test, and missed one minute of solid copy by one letter. He then failed the 13WPM sending exam too. We then administered the 5WPM receiving exam, and he failed. It turned out his "handicap" was one of his blood pressure meds affected his ability to hear code. At that point, his medical exemption would not help him. We offered to administer the written exams in order of General, Advanced, and Extra in that proper order. He passed the General, but failed the Advanced. He was pissed that we would not administer the Extra without proof that he passed the Advanced. This fellow was known as a repeater squatter, who constantly told others how wonderful he was. He was bragging for weeks on this repeater that he might be able to pass the 20 WPM receiving exam, but he would definitely pass the sending 20 WPM. He claimed to us that the "stroke" symbol -..-. that he missed sending "flustered" him because he had never seen it. That set the stage from him flunking the Advanced written. He further told everyone that he was planning to fire up his HF equipment the minute that he had the CSCE's signed. None of us on the team was aware of his bragging on the repeater. WE agreed to have the exam at his house as an accommodation. I guess getting on the repeater bragging that he was about to become a "real extra", not a "5wpm inferior extra" caused him to lose face in front of his peers. His massive ego could not handle this event. He called and spoke to Fred, W5YI himself. He then called the FCC, and complained. They refereed him back to W5YI. He instead called the ARRL VEC, and complained. They referred him back to W5YI. Fred, W5YI asked for all three of us VE's to file our written report of events. After reviewing all of the testing data, he backed us up. He called the guy, and told him that to pass the code exams he had to know all of the alphabet, numerals, and a select list of punctuation symbols as required by the FCC. He was not aware of the" /" symbol, even though he was a repeater control op, and heard it on the code id many times a day. Of course he trashed us ve's on the air, and phone calls to his friends. I had another complaint filed by a "git off my lawn" type. I had refused to accept an out dated (therefore invaLID) CSCE. I offered to administer any exam that he needed that day. He called the FCC, and ARRL VEC, and complained. They both reenforced our stand. I got out of the VE business.

[KC2UGV]

I could be full of shit, but I think you should just say fuck it, tear up your license, sell all your radio shit, take up canasta, and chase pigeons in the park.

Who the hell plays canasta?

[N8YX]

What they said. Fer gawd's sake get him on the air ASAP so he can get on 75 meters and bitch about old guy stuff along with all the other old guys. Apologies to all you old guys. :snicker:

Get off our damn lawn, kid. :evil:

[w0aew]

No good deed....

[W3WN]

THIS! (emphasis mine)
Don't want a problem child? Don't bring one in. Pass on this one.
The induhvidual in question lives in an Eastern section of the city of Pittsburgh. My club is based in the southern portion of Allegheny County (outside of the City proper) and northern portion of Washington County.

For him to attend club meetings, well, it would be a bit of a drive. Between a half-hour and 45 minutes. NOT allowing for rush hour, and the big bottlenecks would be crossing the Mon River & related tunnels

Now, I know that doesn't sound like a lot... but Pittsburgh can be a little parochial.

So... I'm not too worried about him joining my club. There are other groups that are closer and/or easier for him to get to, from where he's at.

If shows for the test session, we treat him like anyone else. If he gripes, he gripes. Nothing I can do about it.

If he drops hints that he wants to join... well, we'll deal with that one when the time comes.

[n0iu]

I could be full of shit...

NEVER give us that option!!!

But anyway...

Once he gets through the testing process and gets his license (assuming he actually memorizes enough questions and answers), this will all be behind him and he will forget all about it... you hope!

OTOH, if he doesn't pass, it will most certainly be something you or one of your VEs did wrong!

[W3WN]

So, yesterday afternoon, I get this email... name redacted for obvious reasons:
-----------
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 3:15 PM
Subject: test

is there any way i can take the test online since i am 16 and cant get out near you at all Thanks

------------
The replies back and forth continue:
-------------
Sorry, there are no provisions with anyone to take the tests online that I am aware of.

Where are you?
-------------
in pittsburg by the zoo

(that's the Highland Park neighborhood, up along the Allegheny River, about 15 miles NE of us)
-------------
OK.

If you can get a bus to downtown, the Hamfest is located as the Memorial Hall stop on the Blue Line. (LRT)

Otherwise, our next test session will be in April at WPXI’s studio on the North Side.
-------------
sorry i cant get the bus ill just give up on the hobby
-------------

Wow. This is a 16 year old, laying out this guilt trip? :irked:

If he really is who he says he is, where he says he is, I'm going to suggest he contact someone in the North Hills club, since they have members in that area. But something about this just doesn't feel right. Exactly what I'm not sure about yet... but at least part of it is that (assuming this is for real and I'm not being played) if he does "give up" on Amateur Radio, it will all be my fault.

In the immortal words of the Lethal Weapon movies, I'm getting too old for this dreck.

[n0iu]

In the immortal words of the Lethal Weapon movies, I'm getting too old for this dreck.

I thought Sergeant Hulka said it better....

http://i.imgur.com/GAdXMvJ.png

[K7SGJ]

Boomshakalaka Boomshakalaka

[KJ3N]

Wow. This is a 16 year old, laying out this guilt trip? :irked:

It's only a guilt trip, if you let it be one. I don't see why you should.


If he really is who he says he is, where he says he is, I'm going to suggest he contact someone in the North Hills club, since they have members in that area. But something about this just doesn't feel right. Exactly what I'm not sure about yet... but at least part of it is that (assuming this is for real and I'm not being played) if he does "give up" on Amateur Radio, it will all be my fault.

Bullshit (or bushtit, if you prefer). It's his fault and only his fault. He's either motivated enough to find a way, or he's not. The world doesn't owe him anything. The sooner he figures that out, the better.

[W3WN]

Well Jim, you know that in these days of political correctness run amok, it is not socially acceptable to tell the kid to grow a pair, man up, and figure out a way himself.

And Murphy's Law tells us that if I say the above, some parental/authority type will come down on me for picking on the kid.

But there's only so much I can do. I'm not arranging a limo...

Don't worry, I'll figure something out.

[KJ3N]

Well Jim, you know that in these days of political correctness run amok, it is not socially acceptable to tell the kid to grow a pair, man up, and figure out a way himself.

I've never cared to be socially acceptable. I'm here, aren't I? :-P


And Murphy's Law tells us that if I say the above, some parental/authority type will come down on me for picking on the kid.

But there's only so much I can do. I'm not arranging a limo...

Assuming there's no real physical reason (an actual physical handicap), I fail to see how it's your problem (or fault). You've given him 3 options to pursue. The ball's in his court, AFAIC.

Shit, or get off the pot, IMNSHO.

[K7SGJ]

Don't forget to wipe....

[kb2vxa]

"He's either motivated enough to find a way, or he's not. The world doesn't owe him anything."
Unfortunately lack of motivation and thinking the world owes him is the attitude of today's "disadvantaged youth". You know you owe him NOTHING and where there's a will there's a way so if i were in your shoes I wouldn't even think of a guilt trip, maybe a couch trip but I digress.

"And Murphy's Law tells us that if I say the above, some parental/authority type will come down on me for picking on the kid."
I'd tell them something they wouldn't like very much and forget about the whole thing.

"Don't worry, I'll figure something out."
What's to figure when we're laying it on the line for you? They don't call me a grumpy old bastid for nothing, I'd tell the lot of them GET OFF MY LAWN and 5 minutes later it didn't happen. Incidentally, would you REALLY want a kid with a bad attitude becoming a ham? Think about it.

[KG4NEL]

Incidentally, would you REALLY want a kid with a bad attitude becoming a ham? Think about it.

Yeah, that's before he's even exposed to 75 meters or a DX cluster. Can you imagine what would happen after that...

[KG4CGC]

Yeah, that's before he's even exposed to 75 meters or a DX cluster. Can you imagine what would happen after that...

The Obama's Fault Net?

[KJ3N]

The Obama's Fault Net?

That's been running non-stop for the last 6 years.... on every frequency from 3.803 to 4.0.

[KG4NEL]

The Obama's Fault Net?

Take it to the system!

[W3WN]

< snip >
"Don't worry, I'll figure something out."
What's to figure when we're laying it on the line for you? They don't call me a grumpy old bastid for nothing, I'd tell the lot of them GET OFF MY LAWN and 5 minutes later it didn't happen. Incidentally, would you REALLY want a kid with a bad attitude becoming a ham? Think about it.Ah, should have been clearer. (I was typing that while waiting to see a Doctor this morning... turns out I have an Upper Respiratory Infection, oh joy. But I digress)

I meant that I'll figure out a NICE way of telling the kid... tough. If he wants the ticket bad enough, he will have to make at least a token effort... and emailing me & dumping it in my lap does not qualify. (That may be a MINIMAL effort, but not a TOKEN one)

But, assuming again that I'm not being played, if he will give up because we won't kiss his butt? Not my problem. And no, we don't need another ham around who feels entitled without having to make some effort.

[W3WN]

Got back to the kid tonight. I told him that there are members of the North Hills club who live in his area (I know, I've been to their homes), so maybe he can work something out with one of them?

Answer back... someone told him that I was the guy for North Hills. Now I know someone is full of dreck.

Anyway, long & short is that he's claiming that he's contacted "every" club in the area, and no one will help him. That, and since the FCC is making it so hard to take the test, obviously they don't want any more hams on the air. Right.

I did a lookup on this kid. There's someone with his name who lives on Butler Street... that merges with Penn Avenue, one of the main drags into downtown Pittsburgh, and I KNOW there are buses that go up & down that street. But, he tells me "im 16 and were i live theres no sidewalks and the closest bus stop is about 1 -2 mi away from my house" Not buying it.

Translation: He wants someone to come and get him. Better yet, give him the test in the comfort of his home.

OK. I tried. Enough.

[kb2vxa]

Well that settles it, only I wouldn't have taken so long or put so much effort into telling him >politely< get off my lawn. Call me a quick study grumpy old bastid who can smell BS a mile away in a hurricane.

[W2NAP]

Got back to the kid tonight. I told him that there are members of the North Hills club who live in his area (I know, I've been to their homes), so maybe he can work something out with one of them?

Answer back... someone told him that I was the guy for North Hills. Now I know someone is full of dreck.

Anyway, long & short is that he's claiming that he's contacted "every" club in the area, and no one will help him. That, and since the FCC is making it so hard to take the test, obviously they don't want any more hams on the air. Right.

I did a lookup on this kid. There's someone with his name who lives on Butler Street... that merges with Penn Avenue, one of the main drags into downtown Pittsburgh, and I KNOW there are buses that go up & down that street. But, he tells me "im 16 and were i live theres no sidewalks and the closest bus stop is about 1 -2 mi away from my house" Not buying it.

Translation: He wants someone to come and get him. Better yet, give him the test in the comfort of his home.

OK. I tried. Enough.

i have to question if it really is a 16 year old, and not someone trolling?... like maybe that guy that was giving and issue some time ago

[K7SGJ]

i have to question if it really is a 16 year old, and not someone trolling?... like maybe that guy that was giving and issue some time ago

You mean, like an angry old Republican, white man, that wants to get on the Geritol net?

[KC2UGV]

Got back to the kid tonight. I told him that there are members of the North Hills club who live in his area (I know, I've been to their homes), so maybe he can work something out with one of them?

Answer back... someone told him that I was the guy for North Hills. Now I know someone is full of dreck.

Anyway, long & short is that he's claiming that he's contacted "every" club in the area, and no one will help him. That, and since the FCC is making it so hard to take the test, obviously they don't want any more hams on the air. Right.

I did a lookup on this kid. There's someone with his name who lives on Butler Street... that merges with Penn Avenue, one of the main drags into downtown Pittsburgh, and I KNOW there are buses that go up & down that street. But, he tells me "im 16 and were i live theres no sidewalks and the closest bus stop is about 1 -2 mi away from my house" Not buying it.

Translation: He wants someone to come and get him. Better yet, give him the test in the comfort of his home.

OK. I tried. Enough.

Yeah, the few small obstacles placed in one's way to get licensed are so small these days... If someone wants a license, they'll find a way.

[W3WN]

I sent an email this morning to a club officer in NHARC, outlining the situation, and asking if he he knew of someone who could help the kid. (Figured the kid would wimp out anyway, but I had to make the try)

This is the reply I got:

would you ask for volenters at meeting. i have my hands full also.
Hmm. I can see why the kid has gotten frustrated and wants to give up.

[WX7P]

Take it to the system!

Ah, They don't care...

[NQ6U]

would you ask for volenters at meeting. i have my hands full also.

Hmm. I can see why the kid has gotten frustrated and wants to give up.

No kidding. I wouldn't have wanted to take my test from an illiterate either. I'll bet the guy calls it ham radio because he can't spell amateur.

[KG4CGC]

A Mate U R.

[n0iu]

And no, we don't need another ham around who feels entitled without having to make some effort.

Just wait until he does get his license and then he will expect someone to donate their "spare" equipment to him because the high prices of new radios are keeping him off the air. And I guaran-damn-tee you he will bitch about how contests are infringing on his rights to use any mode on any frequency any time he wants.

[K7SGJ]

I think we should just take the little fucker out and hang him from someone's vertical.

[n0iu]

I think we should just take the little fucker out and hang him from someone's vertical.

That's a little harsh, doncha think?

Why would you want to ruin someone's vertical??

[K7SGJ]

Good point. He'd probably just slide down anyway.

[W3WN]

Well, I haven't heard another word out of the kid for a week now. Guess he's not all that interested, especially if no one else will do the work for him.

[PA5COR]

No place for him on my 77 feet Inverted L so there! :stirpot: