PDA

View Full Version : FCC To Stop Mailing Licenses



W3WN
11-06-2014, 10:08 AM
The FCC has proposed in WT Docket 14-161 to discontinue, by default, mailing hard copy (paper) licenses to users of the Universal Licensing System (ULS), including the Amateur Service.

Comments for or against are due to the FCC by November 10th.

The docket can be found at http://www.fcc.gov/document/wtb-announces-access-electronic-authorizations-seeks-comment or http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2014/db1010/DA-14-1478A1.pdf

K6BSO
11-06-2014, 10:11 AM
I don't have any problem with that as long as a they provide a secure alternative for downloading a copy I can print out, something they don't do now.

K7SGJ
11-06-2014, 10:16 AM
Well, that ought to finish off the postal service.

W3WN
11-06-2014, 11:07 AM
I don't have any problem with that as long as a they provide a secure alternative for downloading a copy I can print out, something they don't do now.
You can still opt to have them mail you the license, if this goes through. But you have to log into your ULS account to turn the option on; it will be turned off by default.

The ARRL is proposing in their comments that this be left "on" by default.

I'm going to suggest that this become a checkbox on the Form 605, which you can then go and change in the ULS later if desired.

kb2vxa
11-06-2014, 01:37 PM
"The ARRL is proposing in their comments that this be left "on" by default."

So the Newington Gang in their infinite wisdom wants to defeat the purpose of the proposal, reducing the costs of printing, handling and mailing under the Paperwork Reduction Act so everybody licensed by the FCC gets everything as before. These guys are wasting their talents on a small potatoes operation, (political comment withheld).

W5BRM
11-06-2014, 01:42 PM
(political comment withheld).

This aint the zoo! Let her rip!

W3WN
11-06-2014, 02:06 PM
"The ARRL is proposing in their comments that this be left "on" by default."

So the Newington Gang in their infinite wisdom wants to defeat the purpose of the proposal, reducing the costs of printing, handling and mailing under the Paperwork Reduction Act so everybody licensed by the FCC gets everything as before. These guys are wasting their talents on a small potatoes operation, (political comment withheld).Not everyone who has a license knows that they have a ULS account, knows how to access it, and quite a few don't have (valid) e-mail addresses. I know that sounds hard to believe in this day & age, especially amongst those of us who are more-or-less computer/internet savvy, but it's true.

I think Newington has the right idea but the wrong implementation.

Just make the option to get a paper ticket a check box on the Form 605. So, when filing the old fashioned way, by paper...by default, you don't get a paper ticket, but if you check the box, you do.

Simple.

XE1/N5AL
11-06-2014, 03:27 PM
Well, that ought to finish off the postal service.

All those FCC warning letter and NAL mailings will keep the postal service afloat.

N2CHX
11-06-2014, 05:36 PM
Well, that ought to finish off the postal service.

Yeah, all my vanity call sign changes have kept them in business for nearly 10 years now.

WTKX
11-06-2014, 06:14 PM
This aint the zoo! Let her rip!

:rofl:

w0aew
11-07-2014, 05:41 AM
How about "pick up only unless you arrange shipping"?

KC2UGV
11-07-2014, 08:06 AM
Not everyone who has a license knows that they have a ULS account, knows how to access it, and quite a few don't have (valid) e-mail addresses. I know that sounds hard to believe in this day & age, especially amongst those of us who are more-or-less computer/internet savvy, but it's true.

Then, that, I am afraid, is their problem.

For quite some time, your official word of licensing has been ULS. If you can't be arsed to find out all the things that go into being licensed, then maybe that person would need to re-consider the hobby. There are plenty of free email services so that's not an excuse either.

ULS is not all that difficult to use, if all you're doing is working with a single license.

X-Rated
11-07-2014, 08:18 AM
...
ULS is not all that difficult to use, if all you're doing is working with a single license.

LOLtW.

KC2UGV
11-07-2014, 08:37 AM
LOLtW.

Exactly. If the ARRL expects operators to be able to use LoTW, then ULS is a fucking breeze.

W3WN
11-07-2014, 02:29 PM
Then, that, I am afraid, is their problem.

For quite some time, your official word of licensing has been ULS. If you can't be arsed to find out all the things that go into being licensed, then maybe that person would need to re-consider the hobby. There are plenty of free email services so that's not an excuse either.

ULS is not all that difficult to use, if all you're doing is working with a single license.Corey, with all due respect, I'm afraid I disagree with you.

There are many older amateur radio operators, in the late 50's and up, who have difficulty with computers and the Internet to varying degrees. (Actually, you could strike "amateur radio operators" and replace it with "people" -- for example, my mother-in-law -- but I digress.)

Many of these folks do not file for renewals online. They file a Form 605 through one of the VEC's -- and yes, pay the VEC fee -- every 10 years. Some pay more through a "service" like W5YI. (I think the ARRL handles this for free for members as well, although it's been a while...)

These folks will want a paper ticket. It's old fashioned... but then, so are they.

That's why I believe adding a check box to Form 605, as an alternate, is a painless way to go.

KC2UGV
11-07-2014, 02:37 PM
Corey, with all due respect, I'm afraid I disagree with you.

There are many older amateur radio operators, in the late 50's and up, who have difficulty with computers and the Internet to varying degrees. (Actually, you could strike "amateur radio operators" and replace it with "people" -- for example, my mother-in-law -- but I digress.)

Many of these folks do not file for renewals online. They file a Form 605 through one of the VEC's -- and yes, pay the VEC fee -- every 10 years. Some pay more through a "service" like W5YI. (I think the ARRL handles this for free for members as well, although it's been a while...)

These folks will want a paper ticket. It's old fashioned... but then, so are they.

That's why I believe adding a check box to Form 605, as an alternate, is a painless way to go.

If someone has troubles with computers, then perhaps a technical hobby such as amateur radio isn't the right hobby for them? Why not just pay a VEC $10 to go an get a copy sent to them via ULS?

kb2vxa
11-07-2014, 02:53 PM
Oh stop squabbling pedants, a tick box on Form 605 and the ULS page is the way to go and you all know it.

"This aint the zoo! Let her rip!"
You know what I'm talking about so stop trying to get me in trouble for not keeping politics in the political forum. (;->)

KC2UGV
11-07-2014, 02:55 PM
Oh stop squabbling pedants, a tick box on Form 605 and the ULS page is the way to go and you all know it.

"This aint the zoo! Let her rip!"
You know what I'm talking about so stop trying to get me in trouble for not keeping politics in the political forum. (;->)

Personally, I think the paper 605 should go as well... VE's use a computer to generate the tests, why not use it for form submission as well?

XE1/N5AL
11-07-2014, 03:09 PM
In today's world, the concept of a paper license is somewhat antiquated. A quick check of the ULS database, using a smart phone, could verify whether a person is licensed, or not. In most situations, there is no need for a piece of paper. Still, I guess were are all accustomed to have something physical to hold in our hands, or to frame on the wall.

I agree with Ron about computer literacy. Some folks just can't get their hands around the "new" computer technology, even though they might be top-notch operators with their old, trusty Hallicrafters and be capable of constructing an entire antenna farm from a garage full of aluminum tubing.

n2ize
11-07-2014, 03:20 PM
Personally, I think the paper 605 should go as well... VE's use a computer to generate the tests, why not use it for form submission as well?

I agree. In this day and age everything is done via computers. If some people are too incompetent to use a computer for a simple form submission then they should take up another interest, such as basket weaving. There is no excuse these days for anyone to be lacking in basic computer skills. This is not the 1950's this is the 21st century. The machines are everywhere. Learn to use them.

I was an early adopter of the ULS system when it first came on line. I remember renewing my license on ULS with an old 166 mhz Pentium + dialup connection. This is now 2 decades later and all the bugs have been ironed out and its simpler to use. If you can figure out how to operate a radio you can figure out how to renew via ULS. There is no excuse anymore. It's time they graduate to ULS. As for me I want my license in electronic form. I don't want any more hard copies sent via old fashioned mail.

n2ize
11-07-2014, 03:22 PM
In today's world, the concept of a paper license is somewhat antiquated. A quick check of the ULS database, using a smart phone, could verify whether a person is licensed, or not. In most situations, there is no need for a piece of paper. Still, I guess were are all accustomed to have something physical to hold in our hands, or to frame on the wall.

I agree with Ron about computer literacy. Some folks just can't get their hands around the "new" computer technology, even though they might be top-notch operators with their old, trusty Hallicrafters and be capable of constructing an entire antenna farm from a garage full of aluminum tubing.


I think it should be entirely paperless. The ultimatum. If you can't spend five minutes to go to the FCC website and figure out how to renew then sorry, no license. A person who is so inept as to not be able to figure out how to use a simple web app shouldn't be operating a radio.

K7SGJ
11-07-2014, 03:23 PM
In today's world, the concept of a paper license is somewhat antiquated. A quick check of the ULS database, using a smart phone, could verify whether a person is licensed, or not. In most situations, there is no need for a piece of paper. Still, I guess were are all accustomed to have something physical to hold in our hands, or to frame on the wall.

I agree with Ron about computer literacy. Some folks just can't get their hands around the "new" computer technology, even though they might be top-notch operators with their old, trusty Hallicrafters and be capable of constructing an entire antenna farm from a garage full of aluminum tubing.


This is probably true, but try and tell that to the cop that wants to see your license and proof of insurance.

KG4NEL
11-08-2014, 12:23 AM
This is probably true, but try and tell that to the cop that wants to see your license and proof of insurance.

I got 99 problems but a Form 605 ain't one?

KC2UGV
11-08-2014, 01:46 PM
This is probably true, but try and tell that to the cop that wants to see your license and proof of insurance.

NYS accepts proof of insurance on a smart phone, as there's a "faxable" bar code, which is easy for pretty much anything to scan. License? Only a matter of time, I suppose.

N2NH
11-13-2014, 08:01 PM
Again, we are one gamma ray burst/EMP away from the stone age.

WTKX
11-13-2014, 09:20 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d3/QOTSA_eravulgaris.jpg

kd6nig
11-13-2014, 09:52 PM
Either people have to learn how to use the ULS, or those $7 renewal places you get mail from a few months before you expire will have to up the fee to $10, and include sending you a paper copy when the renewal is done for you.

At 50 cents for postage (will probably be there soon) and a few cents per goldenrod sheet of paper, they can easily increase their profit margins by doing so.

I've offered to help a few ham friends of mine setup ULS. Some I've got it done for and renew them myself or help them, others pay the $7 to whatever VEC to have them do the mouse clicks for them.

To each their own.

As long as I can print a new copy whenever I make a change thats fine. They need to specify who they get the paper from and the order number so everyone can get that fancy paper they print it on.

n2ize
11-18-2014, 01:55 PM
Again, we are one gamma ray burst/EMP away from the stone age.

At that point licenses will be the least of anyone's worries. In fact there may not be anyone left to worry.

KG4NEL
11-18-2014, 02:46 PM
At that point licenses will be the least of anyone's worries. In fact there may not be anyone left to worry.

There'll be WinLink around, though.

And cockroaches.

Actually, I give the roaches a better chance, and they don't need regular nets to practice.

kb2vxa
11-18-2014, 07:44 PM
Mutant cockroaches... er... humanoid blattarians using WinLink.

N2NH
11-19-2014, 06:56 AM
UTs are standing wave bye.

W3WN
11-19-2014, 09:48 AM
There'll be WinLink around, though.

And cockroaches.

Actually, I give the roaches a better chance, and they don't need regular nets to practice.If you've seen WALL-E, then you must have caught that little joke about the only form of life left on Earth.

n2ize
11-22-2014, 09:08 PM
If someone has troubles with computers, then perhaps a technical hobby such as amateur radio isn't the right hobby for them? Why not just pay a VEC $10 to go an get a copy sent to them via ULS?

Or, they can send me the $10.00 and I'll go on ULS and renew it for them. ;)

n2ize
11-22-2014, 09:15 PM
There'll be WinLink around, though.

And cockroaches.

Actually, I give the roaches a better chance, and they don't need regular nets to practice.

Even the humble cockroach, as resilient and adaptable as he may be, will most likely not survive a strong gamma ray burst striking the earth. Not to mention there won't be much of an atmosphere left, at least not an atmosphere that supports life as we know it...

But Winlink may survive. I think they don't require an atmosphere and they are already highly radioactive.

N7YA
11-25-2014, 10:12 PM
Corey, with all due respect, I'm afraid I disagree with you.




When i read this, i did so in a posh, Mastahpiece Theataah head voice. :lol:

kd6nig
11-28-2014, 12:01 PM
Mutant cockroaches... er... humanoid blattarians using WinLink.

"What are you, some kinda Cosmanaut?"

"No we're exterminators. Someone saw a cockroach up on 12."

"Thats gotta be some cockroach!"

"Bite your head off, man."