View Full Version : Woody Guthrie, New Yorker
A short video about the 27 years that Woody Guthrie spent living in New York. Mostly shot in Greenwich Village, Manhattan and Coney Island (Gravesend), Brooklyn.
YOU say you want to have a close encounter with Woody Guthrie (http://woodyguthrie.org/index.htm), to follow his footsteps to greatness, to lay eyes on the places where American music history was made: where Woody first met Pete Seeger; where Bob Dylan first showed up on Woody’s doorstep; where Woody strummed and plucked with Lead Belly, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee; where he wrote “This Land Is Your Land,” “Vigilante Man,” “The Sinking of the Reuben James” and many, many hundreds of other songs; where he painted “This Machine Kills Fascists” on his guitar; where he raised his kids, more or less; and where his short, hard, full life ended.
Then you’d better get a MetroCard, because the heart of his story lies within the confines of New York City, Woody’s home for 27 of his 55 years, along a path you can roam and ramble in about a day.
Blame that big wide-open song “This Land Is Your Land,” but many of us have been myth-led into thinking of Woody Guthrie only in windswept Western spaces: the Dust Bowl, the Oklahoma hills where he was born, the Depression-era labor camps of California, the Columbia River Gorge, with its mighty dams.
But this transplanted Okie from Okemah made his name in the beehive of mid-Manhattan and Greenwich Village, cross-pollinating with other musicians, actors, scholars, dancers, writers and artists. He rode the rails of the BMT. He played (unhappily, but still) for the swells at the Rainbow Room at Rockefeller Center. He married a Martha Graham dancer named Marjorie. He had Yiddish-speaking in-laws, the Greenblatts. He settled — to the extent he settled anywhere — in the tract-house expanses of Brooklyn and Queens. He traded the Dust Bowl for the sandbox of Coney Island, where he spent some of his happiest days, playing on the beach with his children.
Link to NY Times Story and Video (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/19/arts/music/roaming-through-woody-guthries-new-york.html?_r=0)
Photo: Woody playing on the AA-train of the NY Subway
http://images.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/woodyguthrie12080114.jpg
kb2vxa
09-20-2014, 09:56 PM
No wonder that subway car is so dark, those are dim 25W 115V series string bulbs flickering to the 600VAC 25Hz traction current. Same thing in the stations, eye strain from the same dim bulbs and the station power derived from the traction current. Aren't you glad for 750VDC traction systemwide providing power for inverter ballasts and fluorescent tubes and Con Ed 115VAC 60Hz station power? Woodie, listen to your friend Bob, the times they are a changin' and be glad the subway no longer uses steam locomotives like the one entombed in a partially filled in station under the streets of Brooklyn.
No wonder that subway car is so dark, those are dim 25W 115V series string bulbs flickering to the 600VAC 25Hz traction current. Same thing in the stations, eye strain from the same dim bulbs and the station power derived from the traction current. Aren't you glad for 750VDC traction systemwide providing power for inverter ballasts and fluorescent tubes and Con Ed 115VAC 60Hz station power? Woodie, listen to your friend Bob, the times they are a changin' and be glad the subway no longer uses steam locomotives like the one entombed in a partially filled in station under the streets of Brooklyn.
I've tried explaining how dark those subway stations used to be to NHE, but she was born after the flourescent lights were installed. Heck she doesn't remember Old-Look GM buses either. Back in the fall of '10, we got to ride some Low-V's from 1915. They were around when I was a kid and I never forgot the sound of them accelerating from the station where I lived, nor the ripping sound the doors made as they closed. She had never even seen one. What a difference a few years make.
Glad I'm not alone in remembering those old dark stations.
Posted for no other reason than I always liked the PCC cars in the San Francisco Municipal Railway's green-and-cream livery.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8066/8162463647_079693a362_z.jpg
Posted for no other reason than I always liked the PCC cars in the San Francisco Municipal Railway's green-and-cream livery.
They had those in the Newark "Subway" on about a 5 mile long line that is now part of the Light Rail Line there (not sure but Warren probably knows). They rode a lot smoother than a bus.
They also had them in Brooklyn (and I never heard of them anywhere else in NYC).
http://i59.tinypic.com/2m3gyz7.png
Because they were designed by the heads of actual transit agencies/companies, PCC cars were popular all over the U.S. at one time. Muni was (I think, could be wrong about this) unique in ordering special-built double-ended "torpedo" cars so they didn't have to build a turn-around at the eastern terminus at the Ferry Building, where the existing cable car turntable was too small to accommodate them. Not all Muni PCC cars were double-ended, but the ones that ran down Market Street were.
Why, yes, I am a rail transit geek. What makes you ask?
Because they were designed by the heads of actual transit agencies/companies, PCC cars were popular all over the U.S. at one time. Muni was (I think, could be wrong about this) unique in ordering special-built double-ended "torpedo" cars so they didn't have to build a turn-around at the eastern terminus at the Ferry Building, where the existing cable car turntable was too small to accommodate them. Not all Muni PCC cars were double-ended, but the ones that ran down Market Street were.
Those are pretty unique. SO... a traction fan, hm? I know Boston had a bunch in the 70s on some of their "Subway" lines. I just don't see PCCs as a Subway. I grew up in the city during a time when they were paving over the cobblestone streets with asphalt. They didn't bother to get rid of the trolley track's - they just put pavement over them. It took until the early 70s to put enough to cover them completely. Manhattan had an underground rail rather than overhead wires for their system, the Third Ave. Trolley Company. The trolley barns survived long after the conversion to buses. One became the HQ for a Cable System in Northern Manhattan and another that was a Bus Depot was just torn down in Hell's Kitchen, um Clinton. It is now a parking lot.:angry:
The only trolleys in the city I ever saw was the trackless trolleys that ran in some parts of Brooklyn. They ran on solid rubber tires and weren't tied to the tracks. They were called the Trolleybus also. I don't think there were a lot of them around the country.
Why, yes, I am a rail transit geek. What makes you ask?
Why not? ;) I've always been interested in the "big red cars" in LA. LA doesn't seem like trolley country and these do seem to be more like Interurbans.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2444710.png
Those are pretty unique. SO... a traction fan, hm?
Mea culpa. I like anything that rolls steel wheels on steel rails but I have to admit to a special interest in traction.
I know Boston had a bunch in the 70s on some of their "Subway" lines. I just don't see PCCs as a Subway.
Not a subway in the same sense of what they have in NYC, SF didn't get a true subway until BART arrived in the Seventies. However, Muni's PCC cars did serve one underground transit station in the middle of the Twin Peaks Tunnel.
The only trolleys in the city I ever saw was the trackless trolleys that ran in some parts of Brooklyn. They ran on solid rubber tires and weren't tied to the tracks. They were called the Trolleybus also. I don't think there were a lot of them around the country.
San Francisco was unusual in that it never did abandon it's trolley system for diesel buses the way most cities did. The decision to stay electric had a lot to to with it's hilly topography—electric street cars and trolley buses could handle the city's steep terrain with more aplomb than a bus could, even today.
I've always been interested in the "big red cars" in LA. LA doesn't seem like trolley country and these do seem to be more like Interurbans.
Yeah, those old Pacific Electric red cars were huge, and way cool. I know what you mean about LA not seeming like trolly country but, believe it or not, at one time it had more miles of transit tracks than any other city in the country. They had a regular streetcar system as well as the PE interurban lines. Some of those old PE lines are still in use, too; back in the early Eighties, the CATV system I was working for had their storage yard adjacent to an old PE line, right at a grade crossing complete with one of the old wig-wag crossing signals:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Dan_redlands_wigwag.jpg
Southern Pacific used the line as a freight route and it was funny watching the signal wind up--it took about five seconds to get going to it's full swing and for the bell to start ringing.
kb2vxa
09-21-2014, 07:39 PM
"I've tried explaining how dark those subway stations used to be to NHE, but she was born after the flourescent lights were installed."
That's like me trying to explain feeling all wound up to a woman born too late and all she knew were digital clocks and "batteries not included".
"Heck she doesn't remember Old-Look GM buses either."
Like a 1948 GM Coach with a stick shift, a driver who made change, a machine that printed tickets and the Public Service triangle logo on the side.
"Back in the fall of '10, we got to ride some Low-V's from 1915."
Like the Pennsylvania RR MP-54 red MUs from 1913.
"They were around when I was a kid and I never forgot the sound of them accelerating from the station where I lived."
The 54s buzzed, jingled and rattled like they were about to fall apart (and probably were) and when they got up to track speed swayed around curves rocking side to side, the Pennsy was known as the rock and roll railroad.
"...I always liked the PCC cars in the San Francisco Municipal Railway..."
Muni kept them clean and shiny, Public Service didn't.
"They had those in the Newark "Subway" on about a 5 mile long line that is now part of the Light Rail Line there..."
It used to go way up in the mountains to Bloomfield or Montclair someplace, now part of Light Rail aka the tramway which was rebuilt out of old Public Service trolley lines it only goes to Grove Street.
"Because they were designed by the heads of actual transit agencies/companies..."
Sort of, PCC stands for Presidents' Conference Committee but the committee didn't design anything, rather oversaw engineers dedicated to standard parts, comfort and noise reduction. Washington, DC PCCs were unique because of conduit plows which collected current from a slot between the rails contacting positive and negative rails under the street on either side. Several dozen still remain in public transit service in Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco following extensive overhauling.
"I just don't see PCCs as a Subway."
I don't see trams as a subway either because they're not. You need to get out more often and check out light rail around the country and the world. Tramways run mostly above ground but in many places go underground just like the Public Service trolleys, PCC cars and all went in Newark. Many systems that use pantographs also run underground with so little clearance the pans lie flat. On the other hand the NYCTA "subway" is mostly above ground, more of an "el" than a subway.
"The only trolleys in the city I ever saw was the trackless trolleys that ran in some parts of Brooklyn."
The twin trolley pole electric bus.
"I don't think there were a lot of them around the country."
They were more common than you think. I wish I had a camera when I went to the Dayton 2000 Hamvention, I saw some from the 50s judging by the design cruising around one of the suburbs. They're all brand new in San Diego, I have some pictures around someplace.
I wonder if there are still any old buzzards who remember seeing these down at South Ferry (Battery Park) in Manhattan. Most went to that big buzzard nest in the sky, and those that didn't still haunt the Times Square station.
n2ize
09-22-2014, 03:43 AM
No wonder that subway car is so dark, those are dim 25W 115V series string bulbs flickering to the 600VAC 25Hz traction current. Same thing in the stations, eye strain from the same dim bulbs and the station power derived from the traction current. Aren't you glad for 750VDC traction systemwide providing power for inverter ballasts and fluorescent tubes and Con Ed 115VAC 60Hz station power? Woodie, listen to your friend Bob, the times they are a changin' and be glad the subway no longer uses steam locomotives like the one entombed in a partially filled in station under the streets of Brooklyn.
He looks like he's riding a prewar set of arnines. They ran in service from the early 30's to the 70's. Actally I should say "to the present day" as around the holiday season the transit system still runs a set of R1-R9's as a holiday special. The traction voltage is (and was back then) 600 VDC. Originally the system had their own generator stations which generated 12,000 Volts AC at 25 cycles since AC is more suitable for power transmission over distances. This power would run to a series of substations where it was run through a step down transformer which would knock it down to about 300-400 VAC at 25 cycles. The conversion to 600 VDC was accomplished via rotary converters in the substations. You might remember these as single story buildings with large front gates and the familiar whining sound of the rotary convertes as they converted the 400 VAC to 600 VDC which was then fed to the third rail. During rush hours more rotary converters were started as the need for additional current increased.Since they were fed DC the incandescent bulbs in the trains didn't flicker but they did dim somewhat when the motors were drawing full current. Later on the rotary converters were replaced with mercury vapour rectifiers and then to solid state rectifiers which are still in use today. I actually liked the R1 R9's and the incandescent lighting in those cars better than the "newer" florescent equipped cars.
Incandescent lighting in the stations would flicker because it was fed with 120 VAC 25 cycle current tapped from the 12,000 VAC transformers I mentioned above. At that low a frequency you will notice the flicker. Lighting within the tunnels was run off 600 VAC in groups of 5 lamps in series.
When the R-10's came along florescent lighting was introduced as well as the special green florescent's that illuminated the roll signs. I liked those green florescent's but unfortunately the lamps were expensive to replace and hard to get and the transit system was on a shoestring budget so they pulled the fuses and replaced the colorful greenies with plain ordinary white backlights. I'll never forget the R10's on the A line (once the kings of the A) and on the C up till the late 80's. They were fast, loud, had a tendency to buck frequently, and rock rapidly from side to side as they were blazing through the tunnels. They were a nightmare for conductors as the door controls were outside (nice in the rain) among other reasons but they were fun from up in the front cab (or the front window). Ha Ha...
Posted for no other reason than I always liked the PCC cars in the San Francisco Municipal Railway's green-and-cream livery.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8066/8162463647_079693a362_z.jpgI miss the PCC cars. Well, to a point.
When the Port Authority started rebuilding the remaining trolley lines into the LRT, they first rebuilt the 42 Beechview line (now the Red Line). The old 47 Overbrook line (now the Blue Line) wasn't rebuilt until about 10 years after, so they still ran the PCC cars on that line. They had to; the old tracks could not handle the LRT cars.
Now the Blue Line is "up to speed" and we have the same LRT cars on both routes. There are a handful of PCC cars still around -- one on display at the PAT garage, one on display in Bethel Park at their history center, one or two donated to the Trolley Museum. The rest? Scrapped.
https://forums.hamisland.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13090&stc=1
Of course, I don't miss looking down at the floor and seeing the rails and ties, as we traveled above them, especially when going over a bridge or trestle. And they always packed us in there like sardines.
San Francisco was unusual in that it never did abandon it's trolley system for diesel buses the way most cities did. The decision to stay electric had a lot to to with it's hilly topography—electric street cars and trolley buses could handle the city's steep terrain with more aplomb than a bus could, even today.
The Bronx, the only borough of NYC on the mainland was very hilly. Probably nowhere near as hilly as SF, but the GM coaches did very poorly there. They went with Macks and later Flexibles for most routes. The exception was Kingsbridge Road, the longest steepest road in the city. It wasn't unusual for a bus to slip on even thin ice and go halfway downhill backwards - sometimes hitting cars. My route the M100/M101 to high school suffered the same problem going up Amsterdam Ave. from 125 to 135 Sts. After a month or so, you got used to going backwards every now and then.
Yeah, those old Pacific Electric red cars were huge, and way cool. I know what you mean about LA not seeming like trolly country but, believe it or not, at one time it had more miles of transit tracks than any other city in the country. They had a regular streetcar system as well as the PE interurban lines. Some of those old PE lines are still in use, too; back in the early Eighties, the CATV system I was working for had their storage yard adjacent to an old PE line, right at a grade crossing complete with one of the old wig-wag crossing signals:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Dan_redlands_wigwag.jpg
Southern Pacific used the line as a freight route and it was funny watching the signal wind up--it took about five seconds to get going to it's full swing and for the bell to start ringing.
I've never seen one of those except in cartoons. They are better at signalling than the crossbucks they usually stick at crossings here. One more Brooklyn PCC I came across. I think it might be the first one. It ran on Flatbush Avenue, one of the larger, longer streets in the borough.
There was a Streetcar Line that shared the tracks across the Williamsburg Bridge with the Subway (http://nypress.com/the-delancey-underground/). In fact, the Streetcar station on the Manhattan side was right next to the subway station and still exists. The TA uses it for offices and other uses now that the trolleys are long gone.
http://www.bera.org/images/1001-ext-small.jpghttps://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7163/6400622203_7c1d8b8705.jpg
https://forums.hamisland.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13088&stc=1&d=1411346389
I definitely don't remember horse drawn trolleys but I do remember the R-33s in their original crimson red paint. They were hard to miss and when new had the nicest ride. Cousins to the World's Fair cars.
http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/articles/recent-bimg_3788.jpg
n2ize
09-22-2014, 04:22 PM
I definitely don't remember horse drawn trolleys but I do remember the R-33s in their original crimson red paint. They were hard to miss and when new had the nicest ride. Cousins to the World's Fair cars.
http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/articles/recent-bimg_3788.jpg
Looks like the TOMC train.
Brookyn was the only borough that actually had a line of trackless trolleys back in the early days. Far as the subway trains go there were 2 versions of the R33. One was the R-33 ML (mainline) and the R33 WF (worlds fair). The original R33-ML was painted silver with a blue stripe (similar to the pre GOH R32 Brightliners). Pre GOH they were built by St Louis Car Co, and post GOH they were GE rebuilds. Eventually they became known as the IRT Redbirds, famous well into the 1990's.
The typical "redbird" considered of R26, R28, R26, R33 and R36 cars. All these cars were built for the A division (IRT). Sometimes people do confuse the R33's with the R32 Brightliners which were IND cars that also made their debut around the time of the 64 Worlds fair.
When these cars first came out I didn't like them. I preferred the noisier and more rough ridin R1's - R-9's, the R-10's and R16's. remember the screech of the iron brake shoes on the R16's ? But as time went on I developed an appreciation for the R32's, R33's, etc. and I sure miss them these days. The old Manhattan Elevated gate cars were quite a trip. In the hot summer days they had removable sides that were replaced with open gates giving passengers not only a great view but also great ventilation which must have been highly appreciated on hot muggy days.
I've never seen one of those except in cartoons. They are better at signalling than the crossbucks they usually stick at crossings here.
The wig-wag signal originated at the Pacific Electric shop and was eventually spun off as a separate business based in Los Angeles. As a result, they were widespread throughout that area, so it's natural that Hollywood-based animators would depict them in their cartoons. I never saw them up in the Bay Area so when I first spotted the one near the yard, I thought it was great. When SP finally replaced it with more modern gates, I tried to buy it from the workers. Alas, they wouldn't sell.
kd6nig
09-22-2014, 08:19 PM
I remember seeing a working Wig-Wag when I rode the train from Santa Cruz to Felton about 15 years ago. Probably long gone now. I know the cars we rode in (was with my parents) have since been replaced or totally redone as well.
I haven't been on the steam trains in Felton since I was a kid. We watched them a little bit but then rode the train back to SC instead of staying all day.
The wig-wag signal originated at the Pacific Electric shop and was eventually spun off as a separate business based in Los Angeles. As a result, they were widespread throughout that area, so it's natural that Hollywood-based animators would depict them in their cartoons. I never saw them up in the Bay Area so when I first spotted the one near the yard, I thought it was great. When SP finally replaced it with more modern gates, I tried to buy it from the workers. Alas, they wouldn't sell.
Once in awhile, one pops up on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wig-Wag-Motor-Crossing-Signal-from-B-M-RR-/281446695444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418787c214). The buy-it price is waaaay too high tho.
The most interesting thing I remember about taking the subways as a kid were the annunciators on the J-train (#15 Train). They were pretty rare back then, but the stations in Williamsburg had them. They were boxes with drilled out holes in the direction the trains were heading. Red letters indicating "To Jamaica" (Queens) that were lit up by 15 watt bulbs for an east-bound train, Green letters that lit up saying "To City" (Manhattan) for west-bound trains. They'd also buzz. You didn't have too much time to get to the station from the waiting area once they lit up though. And sometimes the buzzer didn't work which added an hour or so to the wait if you didn't notice.
I remember seeing a working Wig-Wag when I rode the train from Santa Cruz to Felton about 15 years ago. Probably long gone now. I know the cars we rode in (was with my parents) have since been replaced or totally redone as well.
I haven't been on the steam trains in Felton since I was a kid. We watched them a little bit but then rode the train back to SC instead of staying all day.
Sorry I missed that era here. Trains were pretty much ignored by most New Yorkers unless they were on them. The only crossings I knew of in the city were on the BMT's Myrtle line which had the gates.
n2ize
09-25-2014, 01:16 AM
Sorry I missed that era here. Trains were pretty much ignored by most New Yorkers unless they were on them. The only crossings I knew of in the city were on the BMT's Myrtle line which had the gates.
Yeah, the few subway road crossings in NY were eventually done away with as per state law. These days we have idiots that cross the tracks on foot in the station tunnels to get to the opposite platform. Over the years there have been a few fatalities. Very dangerous and stupid move. I won't even mention "train surfers". Like anywhere else, NYC has its share of Darwin award winners.
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