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K7SGJ
09-04-2014, 06:26 PM
My small tractor has been acting strange over the last few months. When running around, the engine would act like it was going to quit, then go back to full performance. Two days ago, I changed a belt for the hydrostatic drive, and when I finished, I ran it out to one of the back cargo containers to check on a bee problem we've been having. Seems the little buggers built a hive under one of them, and they were swarming everywhere. My treatment worked okay. (I tried to scare them by yelling BOO BEE, but I had to take a more drastic approach) But I digress.

So I jump back on the tractor, flip the ignition switch, and push the starter button. Crank, crank, crank, but no start. I open the engine compartment to see if there was anything obvious, but no. I try the start sequence again, and after several tries, it sparks up, and runs fine. I get it back to the house, shut it down, and try a restart. Lots of cranking, but no start. Now there is fuel leaking out of the carb. Must be a fuel problem right? Just to be sure there is spark, I pull the spark plug lead and put it across my spark tester, and give a few cranks. There is spark, but to me, it looks a little weak, but it is there. I pull the carb and look at the float, needle valve, all of that. Everything is in spec. Fuckit. I put it all back together and figure I'll look at it later.

Today, I try to start it, and all it does is crank. Just for the hell of it, I decide to look at the points. I pull the cover off and check. Yep, .020 gap. Perfect. I try my spark tester again, and this time, no spark. Hmmmmm. So just to make sure the points are closing all the way, I put an ohm meter across them. I rotate the crankshaft manually, and when the points close, continuity. Damn. Then, one of my clip leads pop off the points, so I put it back to try a few additional revolutions. The first time around, continuity, the second time, nada. WTF?

So, I rotate the crankshaft till the points are closed again, and nothing. Thinking I might have an intermittent connection from the clip lead to the part of the points where the cap is connected, I move it slightly. The tone on the continuity meter starts chirping. This is interesting. So I wiggle that part of the points and continuity comes and goes with the points physically closed. So I pull the points for a closer look. I put it under the magnifier, and notice that where one side of the points were swaged to the point frame was wobbly. I could actually rotate the contact on the frame. Sumbitch. This would explain the intermittent loss of power, and all the other issues.

I look in my box of engine spare parts, and no points. But I did find a solid-state device that would replace conventional points. I had two of them, and have no idea when or where I picked them up. Maybe a garage sale. Anyway, it's worth a try. I bypass the points and temporarily put this little wiz-bang in. Try the spark tester, and a nice big blue spark appears. I put the plug back in, hit the starter, and bang, a big backfire through the carb with associated flame appears. I didn't need the hair on that eye brow, anyway. I brought the halon bottle a little closer to where I was working, and tried it again. This time, the engine took off like Hogan's goat. (who the hell is/was Hogan, anyway?)

So it was just a matter of putting the old points back in to hold the point contactor and rubber seal in place so engine oil wouldn't shoot out, and make a mount on the block for the little wiz-bang for good electrical contact as well as a heat sink of sorts. Put it all back together, cleaned up the mess, and took it for a spin. It works great. It takes off on the first crank every time. Oh, the fuel leaking from the carb? It appears it was just a matter of the bowl being full, and the vibration from the engine cranking caused it to escape through the throttle valve shaft which is a bit worn. But, when the engine is running okay, no fuel leaks since the fuel is flowing and the bowl isn't fully filled. I'll address that next time I have to pull the carb off.

Now I have to do an annual on the big tractor and the forklift. But I'm going to wait till it cools down a bit.

NQ6U
09-04-2014, 06:34 PM
Ignition points, how...quaint.

K7SGJ
09-04-2014, 06:39 PM
Ignition points, how...quaint.

For some reason. I was reminded of working inside the distributer of my '55 Ford Crown Vic. Fortunately, that, too, only had the single set of points and not the dual point ignition that was a bitch to get right.

NQ6U
09-04-2014, 09:19 PM
I have a shit-ton of old TV horizontal sync switching transistors. Bet they'd make good ignition point substitutes.

On Edit: Just remembered an old mechanic's trick: Put a 12V test lamp across the points and crank the engine. If the points are working right, the lamp will flash on and off as they close and short across the test leads. If they're not closing, the lamp won't flash.

K7SGJ
09-04-2014, 09:37 PM
I have a shit-ton of old TV horizontal sync switching transistors. Bet they'd make good ignition point substitutes.

On Edit: Just remembered an old mechanic's trick: Put a 12V test lamp across the points and crank the engine. If the points are working right, the lamp will flash on and off as they close and short across the test leads. If they're not closing, the lamp won't flash.

That's the pisser. Whenever I put a little pressure on the bad side of the points, it would make contact and work if it was tweaked ever so slightly. To be honest, I was lucky to discover that bad boy so quickly today. I don't think I've ever seen a set of points that were mechanically intermittent. In all my old cars, they were either pitted to hell, of just flat broken.

NQ6U
09-04-2014, 09:52 PM
That's the pisser. Whenever I put a little pressure on the bad side of the points, it would make contact and work if it was tweaked ever so slightly. To be honest, I was lucky to discover that bad boy so quickly today. I don't think I've ever seen a set of points that were mechanically intermittent. In all my old cars, they were either pitted to hell, of just flat broken.

Yeah, that is a pretty weird one, and the kind of thing that could make you tear your hair out.

W2NAP
09-05-2014, 09:23 AM
I have had problems with ethanol in the gas killing motors

K7SGJ
09-05-2014, 09:59 AM
I have had problems with ethanol in the gas killing motors

Yes, that stuff will rot fuel lines like crazy. Draining the small engine fuel tanks and running the fuel from the carb for winter storage helps, but the lines have to be changed every couple of years since they lose their flexibility. The primer bulbs are only good for 2-3 years out here, too.

W2NAP
09-05-2014, 03:50 PM
Yes, that stuff will rot fuel lines like crazy. Draining the small engine fuel tanks and running the fuel from the carb for winter storage helps, but the lines have to be changed every couple of years since they lose their flexibility. The primer bulbs are only good for 2-3 years out here, too.

I put a fuel shut off valve on the current mower. carb needle is shot and lets fuel into the motor. valve was cheaper option and it gets me by for rest of the year. got a craftsman with a Briggs that is shot over in the corner death by ethanol. I could get 100% gas from country mark but its a 40 mile round trip so not worth the cost. Next mower I want diesel.

n2ize
09-05-2014, 07:55 PM
I got to take a lesson from you country boys. I get my share of problems with small engines. A year or two ago I replaced the carburetor, and all fuel lines on a weed trimmer. Those same fuel lines are now yellow and rigid. Fortunately I have some fresh fuel line to replace the aging fuel on the trimmer & blower. Carb so far is still good. I prefer gas appliances to electrics but, they do require patience and maintenance.

Model airplane fuel is mostly methanol and fuel lines don't last long. Plastic fuel line will last about a year. Silicone fuel line maybe 2 seasons at best.

NQ6U
09-06-2014, 12:01 AM
Back when I was doing it, model airplane fuel was mostly nitromethane.

w2amr
09-06-2014, 04:00 AM
I put a fuel shut off valve on the current mower. carb needle is shot and lets fuel into the motor. valve was cheaper option and it gets me by for rest of the year. Always good to have a fuel shut off with a gravity feed carb. I saw an old sportster motorcycle empty the gas tank on a garage floor ,because the needle valve stuck open.

n2ize
09-06-2014, 10:23 AM
Back when I was doing it, model airplane fuel was mostly nitromethane.

Actually it still contains nitromethane. Typical glow engine model fuels are comprised mostly of methanol and oil (synthetic or castor oil) and contain anywhere from 5% - 50% nitro. How much nitro you use depends on what you are doing. High performance racing or acrobatic flyers generally use a high nitro content. Sport flyers generally use anywhere from 5% to 20% nitro with 15% being the typical average. It is claimed that some engines will run fine on just methanol and oil and 0% nitro. I once got one of my larger engines to run on straight methanol with no nitro but the engine ran slow and had no ooomph. It was also hard to start w/o the nitro.

These days a lot of the guys flying very large models are running them on gasoline. A lot cheaper than nitro based fuel. Some are even running real jet engines on kerosene

Of course these days electric power is very big on the model scene. A lot of the electrics these days have the same or even greater power than their nitro burning counterparts. I'd say the bulk of stuff being flown these days is running on electric.

kb2vxa
09-06-2014, 10:38 AM
"Some are even running real jet engines on kerosene."
That's because they know that Jet A fuel and Jet B used to enhance cold weather starting is just K1 with a few additives.

N2NH
09-06-2014, 10:57 AM
A thousand pointless of dark...

kb2vxa
09-06-2014, 01:19 PM
That must be some really good stuff you're smoking.

N2NH
09-06-2014, 06:22 PM
That must be some really good stuff you're smoking.

Not smoking, seeing.

"But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here, all the pigeons gonna run to him."

NQ6U
09-06-2014, 06:29 PM
Not smoking, seeing.

"But when Quinn IZE the Eskimo gets here, all the pigeons gonna run to him."

Fixed that for you.