View Full Version : NASCAR Tony Steward Driver Spins Out, Hits and Kills Another Driver
And speculation abounds. The story was written before 20 year-old Kevin Ward died of his injuries.
The facts will come out soon. Anything earlier is speculation.
Having moved recently to North Carolina, I have witnessed some local track racing. There is one track in particular- Bowman Gray in Winston-Salem which has deteriorated to "wrestling on wheels". I have said recently that someone would get killed soon, due to tempers. I hope that what Tony Stewart did was not intentional, and I will pray for the other driver, Kevin Ward Jr.
There is a link to that video in the first linked to story.
NASCAR Driver Tony Stewart involved in serious incident at dirt track (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/10/1320399/-NASCAR-Driver-Tony-Stewart-involved-in-serious-incident-at-dirt-track)
From Yahoo Sports:
Tony Stewart struck and killed driver at New York dirt track (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/tony-stewart-reportedly-involved-in-incident-under-investigation-at-new-york-dirt-track-042049206.html)
KG4CGC
08-10-2014, 04:50 AM
Too many conflicting stories out at this time.
One more warning, the video is graphic and is NSFW -
Click at your own risk/discretion.
Tony Stewart Race 08/09/2014 Upstate New York (http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-stewart-ran-over-opposing-driver-during-1618893708)
K7SGJ
08-10-2014, 09:28 AM
Tragic
WØTKX
08-10-2014, 10:16 AM
Too soon to judge, but anybody who walks onto the track during a race (yellow or not) is a freaking dumbass.
I doubt Tony hit him on purpose. Besides, his attention was likely on the apex of the turn, duh?
KG4CGC
08-10-2014, 10:33 AM
FOX claimed this morning it was intentional. Guess Uncle Rupert don't like Tony.
WØTKX
08-10-2014, 10:56 AM
Angry populism sells advertisements.
KG4CGC
08-10-2014, 11:18 AM
Here's what they did. They repeated a statement by an angry and emotional friend of the deceased. The friend said that Mr. Stewart was a professional who knew how to get the car to kick out just enough to hit the kid. FOX & Fiends did NOT have to repeat that bit since it has started an anti Stewart frenzy on Facebook and elsewhere on the internet.
You know what? You walk out on a live track even under yellow conditions and you're on your own. What did that kid think he was going to do? Stop Stewart's car with his bare hand? Right now the only angle we have shows the kid standing in the car's path, jacked up on adrenaline and testosterone. Stewart got out of the way. The rest will be up to forensics.
Fuck you FOX "News" and eat shit. 100% tabloid grade bovine excreta. It shouldn't get political but FUX had to open their shyte gob.
N2CHX
08-10-2014, 11:45 AM
I know you're all gonna disagree with me, but Stewart's always been a hothead and I think this time he crossed the line and it's going to bite him in the ass good.
WØTKX
08-10-2014, 11:58 AM
Yea, he is a hothead, and so are a lot of competitive folks. It's why I never got into ski racing, and tired of competitive sports very young.
Free- skiing, frisbee throwing, hippy-dippyness is more fun, gosh-darn-it-ta-tall!
KG4CGC
08-10-2014, 01:36 PM
The video. NSFW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qILmIyG6qno
K4WGE
08-10-2014, 03:26 PM
That's a NASCAR event? I had no idea.
Next the lawyers check in.
Something may be said about contributory negligence.
K4WGE
08-10-2014, 03:35 PM
Pure Comparative Negligence
In the states that use the pure comparative negligence system, even if the plaintiff is found at fault to some degree, he still may recover damages minus his degree of fault. If the defendant is found 65 percent at fault, the person who suffered injuries could recover 65 percent of the damages claimed. States using pure comparative negligence are Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota and Washington state.
http://www.contributorynegligence.net/Contributory-Negligence-vs.-Comparative-Negligence.html
KG4CGC
08-10-2014, 06:26 PM
It was a freaking accident that the kid brought on him self. End of story.
Actually Stewart did the same thing in a race himself. Saw it on the news (WNBC 4 NEW YORK 6PM Tonight). He ran onto the track and was screaming and gesturing to another driver in a car. He didn't get run down, but what the heck, now there's a precedence. But there's no getting the video on it since the Interwebs are flooded with the vid of this "accident". People generally say what they're thinking or what's in their hearts. Interesting what Stewart said a few years ago. It was considered exargeration, or even hyperbole, but looking back one wonders...
I can't count the number of times I've heard NASCAR drivers, including Stewart -- especially Stewart -- exaggerate things. E.g., his "We're going to kill each other" several years back after he won a preliminary race during Speedweeks and didn't like the way the bump drafting was going.
Maybe he wasn't exaggerating?
LINK pedigree. (http://espn.go.com/racing/blog/_/name/hinton_ed/id/10492198/nascar-tony-stewart-went-too-far-richard-petty-remarks)
Maybe Death Race 2K15 is what's in store. Racing gets more brutal by the year. Maybe we need a race where the winner is the last guy who's breathing and all the others have been killed.
W5BRM
08-10-2014, 06:36 PM
To me (and this my OPINION only) Both parties are at fault.
1: Ward should have stayed in his car. Thats only common sense. Bad emotional reaction is no excuse to endanger himself or anyone else on that track.
2: Stewart should have stayed toward the bottom of the track. He drove by very close when he should have done everything to stay away from a loose person on the track. Lack of following the safety rules. Don't know what TS's emotional state was but there is NO emotional state that he could have that makes it OK for him to "buzz" or drive over an unprotected driver.
Both are at fault.
Criminal Liability?
If it was off the track, then no question about fault. Both of them are at fault and judgement should take that into accountability. Who knows how it would play out.
On Track, there are rules about this sort of stuff and it will be argued that it could have been an accident. BUT nobody will really be held accountable as it is considered to be a sporting event with an acknowledged degree of risk. The video and sound really shows nothing that TS accelerated or intentionally and aggressively pursued Ward with the intent to kill injure or maim. Bad timing will most likely be used as the excuse to get TS off the hook. Theres no way to show that the sound of acceleration came solely from TS's car so that will most likely not be used as any sort of definitive blame if the race authorities decide to use this to act against TS
Thats my opinion anyway
W2NAP
08-10-2014, 07:23 PM
most of the small tracks I been to the rule has been this. if the car you are driving is disabled you stay IN the car until safety crew arrives. only time you get out of the car is if the damn thing is on fire.
truth is TS may not of even seen the kid until it was too late.
KG4CGC
08-10-2014, 07:37 PM
To me (and this my OPINION only) Both parties are at fault.
1: Ward should have stayed in his car. Thats only common sense. Bad emotional reaction is no excuse to endanger himself or anyone else on that track.
2: Stewart should have stayed toward the bottom of the track. He drove by very close when he should have done everything to stay away from a loose person on the track. Lack of following the safety rules. Don't know what TS's emotional state was but there is NO emotional state that he could have that makes it OK for him to "buzz" or drive over an unprotected driver.
Both are at fault.
Criminal Liability?
If it was off the track, then no question about fault. Both of them are at fault and judgement should take that into accountability. Who knows how it would play out.
On Track, there are rules about this sort of stuff and it will be argued that it could have been an accident. BUT nobody will really be held accountable as it is considered to be a sporting event with an acknowledged degree of risk. The video and sound really shows nothing that TS accelerated or intentionally and aggressively pursued Ward with the intent to kill injure or maim. Bad timing will most likely be used as the excuse to get TS off the hook. Theres no way to show that the sound of acceleration came solely from TS's car so that will most likely not be used as any sort of definitive blame if the race authorities decide to use this to act against TS
That's my opinion anyway
I appriciate your opinion and here is my opinion to your #2 point. It's a dirt track. Stewart may not have been able to bring his car close enough to the inner track soon enough or even see anything soon enough.
Tony, good point. Dirt tracks also mean mud on the windshield, mud on the helmet visor. Mud happens.
I'm really concerned about people judging this like an asphalt track in the day time.
W2NAP
08-11-2014, 04:28 AM
I appriciate your opinion and here is my opinion to your #2 point. It's a dirt track. Stewart may not have been able to bring his car close enough to the inner track soon enough or even see anything soon enough.
Tony, good point. Dirt tracks also mean mud on the windshield, mud on the helmet visor. Mud happens.
I'm really concerned about people judging this like an asphalt track in the day time.
no windshield on a sprint car. just a metal (square link) cage to stop chunks of mud from hitting the driver.
Also being it was a wing sprint, the wing side hangs down over the right side obstructing view.
another thing on dirt, you will use the accelerator to turn. left wheel will spin up a bit quicker then the right which is why the rear ends of the sprints snap right in the turns.
ANYTIME you are on track you take life in your own hands. its usually in the contract you have to sign to even be allowed in the pits or on track that nobody but you is responsible for anything that happens.
N2CHX
08-11-2014, 07:10 AM
Anyone else remember the incident where Stewart got pissed off at Jeff Gordon, got out of his car and threw his helmet at Gordon? That was really early in his career. Seems like this kid was just emulating his idol. Kind of ironic, I think.
I know you're all gonna disagree with me, but Stewart's always been a hothead and I think this time he crossed the line and it's going to bite him in the ass good.Is he a hothead? Yes.
Is this incident going to bite him in the assets? Big time.
Do I think he's at fault? No.
I'm truly sorry that this kid lost his life, but WTF was he thinking (or was he thinking?) walking out on a hot race course, even if it's under a yellow flag? That he was just going to put up his hand & all the cars would stop on a dime?
It's very easy for someone to say that Stewart (or the other drivers, for that matter), should have steered clear of the kid. I'm not so sure it's all that easy. At race speeds, going around a curve, with race traffic nearby... there are all sorts of factors involved. Stewart may simply not had enough time or a clear enough track to move much.
Anyone else remember the incident where Stewart got pissed off at Jeff Gordon, got out of his car and threw his helmet at Gordon? That was really early in his career. Seems like this kid was just emulating his idol. Kind of ironic, I think.Yeah.
In the immortal words of Forrest Gump,
Stupid is as stupid does
WØTKX
08-11-2014, 07:21 AM
New rules need to be established... any driver who walks out into traffic (or throws anything into the track) on a hot race course to confront another driver should be immediately subject to suspension, and possibly for life. Period.
New rules need to be established... any driver who walks out into traffic (or throws anything into the track) on a hot race course to confront another driver should be immediately subject to suspension, and possibly for life. Period.
Mass - especially mass in motion - ALWAYS wins the argument.
Unfortunately, too many of life's rules have been written in blood after common sense failed to show up.
Mass - especially mass in motion - ALWAYS wins the argument.
Unfortunately, too many of life's rules have been written in blood after common sense failed to show up.
Well being 20 years old isn't exactly an age known for being wise. Still, dead is dead and I fail to see how they'll be able to establish what Stewart was thinking. Oh, maybe if they can get their hands on an on-board camera.
W2NAP
08-11-2014, 05:34 PM
New rules need to be established... any driver who walks out into traffic (or throws anything into the track) on a hot race course to confront another driver should be immediately subject to suspension, and possibly for life. Period.
they do that at the local here, up to $500 fine possible suspension and or ban.
VE7DCW
08-11-2014, 07:29 PM
I know you're all gonna disagree with me, but Stewart's always been a hothead and I think this time he crossed the line and it's going to bite him in the ass good.
Was that Stewart I saw in old file footage of after he crashed his vehicle in a race he got out of the car,took off his racing helmet and threw it at the car of someone he was mad at? ......I saw the tail end of that news report and it was most bizarre behaviour of any driver! :-?
KG4CGC
08-11-2014, 07:43 PM
I'm not a Stewart fan but fair is fair and reality is reality.
Here's the reality: his career is pretty much fubar'd. Part of that reason is because of all the assholes who want to say he hit this kid with malice. Even if this blows over for him there will always be those who will say he murdered the kid. If that's what you think then I have some very choice words for you and the first word starts with an "F" and it isn't firetruck. Got a problem with it? Then prove it. Until then, hold your tongue and stop adding to the insanity.
If at some point in the future the forensics can prove that this was an act of malice, I will concede as much and say so here and everywhere else that I have commented on this incident. Until then, read the above.
NA4BH
08-11-2014, 10:52 PM
Looking at a slo-mo lighting enhanced version of the accident, it looks like Ward grabbed the wing on Stewart's vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XvhrPu64Co
I've met Tony Stewart before, he IS a dick (my opinion). It's all about him and him only. But I don't think he would intentionally do anything that would have injured Ward or anybody else. But he is a dick (my opinion).
K7SGJ
08-11-2014, 11:02 PM
Looking at a slo-mo lighting enhanced version of the accident, it looks like Ward grabbed the wing on Stewart's vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XvhrPu64Co
I've met Tony Stewart before, he IS a dick (my opinion). It's all about him and him only. But I don't think he would intentionally do anything that would have injured Ward or anybody else. But he is a dick (my opinion).
Well it's like grandma used to say, only two guys know for certain what happened, and one ain't talking.
NA4BH
08-11-2014, 11:03 PM
Very true
I'm not a Stewart fan but fair is fair and reality is reality.
Here's the reality: his career is pretty much fubar'd. Part of that reason is because of all the assholes who want to say he hit this kid with malice. Even if this blows over for him there will always be those who will say he murdered the kid. If that's what you think then I have some very choice words for you and the first word starts with an "F" and it isn't firetruck. Got a problem with it? Then prove it. Until then, hold your tongue and stop adding to the insanity.
If at some point in the future the forensics can prove that this was an act of malice, I will concede as much and say so here and everywhere else that I have commented on this incident. Until then, read the above.
Well, the sad reality appears to be...
The kid was mad that his car got sent to the wall.
He was so angry, he got out of his wrecked car, and walked out on the track to confront TS. Who is still driving, at a high speed (even if not full speed due to the yellow caution flag).
At least one other driver swerved around him. And I just heard an interview that quoted someone who saw the whole thing that said that TS had less time to react that the driver who just barely missed the kid.
And... there appears to be video evidence that the kid GRABBED, or tried to grab, the "wing" in the side of TS's vehicle. Which would have put him in direct contact with the wheels... and we know the rest.
Now... if the truth pretty much matches what I just outlined... exactly where is the negligence on behalf of Tony Stewart? Trading paint happens in racing. Drivers will send other drivers into the wall or off the course... I don't condone either of these practices, but they happen. They are part of racing at this level.
So, is TS responsible for this kid storming out on a hot track and putting himself directly in harm's way?
I just don't see it.
It's a tragedy, no question. But homicide?
KG4CGC
08-12-2014, 03:18 AM
Well, the sad reality appears to be...
The kid was mad that his car got sent to the wall.
He was so angry, he got out of his wrecked car, and walked out on the track to confront TS. Who is still driving, at a high speed (even if not full speed due to the yellow caution flag).
At least one other driver swerved around him. And I just heard an interview that quoted someone who saw the whole thing that said that TS had less time to react that the driver who just barely missed the kid.
And... there appears to be video evidence that the kid GRABBED, or tried to grab, the "wing" in the side of TS's vehicle. Which would have put him in direct contact with the wheels... and we know the rest.
Now... if the truth pretty much matches what I just outlined... exactly where is the negligence on behalf of Tony Stewart? Trading paint happens in racing. Drivers will send other drivers into the wall or off the course... I don't condone either of these practices, but they happen. They are part of racing at this level.
So, is TS responsible for this kid storming out on a hot track and putting himself directly in harm's way?
I just don't see it.
It's a tragedy, no question. But homicide?
Looks like the kid tried grab the bull by the horns. Uh huh.
w2amr
08-12-2014, 03:59 AM
Stewart hit the throttle just before impact. I don't think he meant to hit the kid, just scare him.
K4WGE
08-12-2014, 10:40 AM
Stewart hit the throttle just before impact.
Is that an observation from the audio from one of the videos, or eye-witness testimony? I can seem to find anything definitive there.
The evidence of Ward grabbing the wing of Stewart's car puts him close enough to the latter's wheels as well.
w2amr
08-12-2014, 01:56 PM
Is that an observation from the audio from one of the videos, or eye-witness testimony?
Both
http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=459178
"Some witnesses have said that Stewart hit his throttle as he approached Ward. When you hit the throttle, the back end of the car kicks out. One theory is that Stewart may have hit the throttle to scare Ward."
After last week's return to legalized homocide, mayhem and Stewart's double brush with the wall, this:
Kevin Harvick's shaky pit crew now belongs to Tony Stewart.
Harvick got a pit crew upgrade on Tuesday when Stewart-Haas Racing announced it has swapped Harvick's crew for Stewart's. Harvick is participating in the Chase for the Sprint Cup while Stewart is not.
The pit crew cost Harvick several victories this season and the driver has been outspoken in demanding the performance improve.
This seems to be what the future holds. Harvick will continue with Stewart's old crew from now on. Veeery interestink.
NASCAR experts, please enlighten the rest of us as to what this means and what follows. I know I have no idea. Suspicions but no idea.
Kevin Harvick, Tony Stewart swap pit crews for Chase (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2014/09/09/kevin-harvick-gets-tony-stewart-pit-crew-for-chase/15340091/)
NA4BH
09-11-2014, 12:19 PM
They're giving Tony's pit crew to Harvick so he can have a chance to win the championship. Tony didn't make the chase and as team owner wants the trophy, so he gave the better crew to Harvick. It's nothing unusual, it happens all the time.
K7SGJ
09-11-2014, 01:15 PM
When this thread reappeared today, I saw just glanced at the title and went holy fuck, again?
K4WGE
09-11-2014, 02:42 PM
When this thread reappeared today, I saw just glanced at the title and went holy fuck, again?
Shouldn't it be wrapped up by next week? Criminal side anyway.
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/stewart-ward-investigation-complete-d-a-to-make-statement-next-week-091114
Shouldn't it be wrapped up by next week? Criminal side anyway.
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/stewart-ward-investigation-complete-d-a-to-make-statement-next-week-091114
Yah, that worked well for OJ didn't it? Money talks, shit walks.
K4WGE
09-11-2014, 02:55 PM
Yah, that worked well for OJ didn't it? Money talks, shit walks.
OJ was prosecuted. Stewart may not be. There is the civil litigation possibility or some kind of settlement (e.g. money talking).
WØTKX
09-11-2014, 03:31 PM
Tony smacked the wall a couple of times on his first race back, and didn't finish. (http://www.foxsports.com/content/fsdigital/fscom/nascar/story/2014/08/31/promising-night-at-atlanta-takes-bad-turn-for-returning-tony-stewart.html)
While more interesting racing continues at Rally America... (http://www.rally-america.com/videos)
http://www.drivingsports.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ACP-Tall-Pines-McDaid.jpg
K7SGJ
09-11-2014, 04:51 PM
Shouldn't it be wrapped up by next week? Criminal side anyway.
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/stewart-ward-investigation-complete-d-a-to-make-statement-next-week-091114
I admit I wasn't too clear with that post. What I meant was, when I saw "NASCAR Tony Steward Driver Spins Out, Hits and Kills Another Driver (https://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php/28124-NASCAR-Tony-Steward-Driver-Spins-Out-Hits-and-Kills-Another-Driver/page2) ", I got stuck on the word another and thought it happened again, to another driver. It didn't occur to me that this was the original thread.
Just an old man's failing memory. I can hardly wait to see what is in store for me as I continue to age, and rot.
I admit I wasn't too clear with that post. What I meant was, when I saw "NASCAR Tony Steward Driver Spins Out, Hits and Kills Another Driver (https://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php/28124-NASCAR-Tony-Steward-Driver-Spins-Out-Hits-and-Kills-Another-Driver/page2) ", I got stuck on the word another and thought it happened again, to another driver. It didn't occur to me that this was the original thread.
Just an old man's failing memory. I can hardly wait to see what is in store for me as I continue to age, and rot.
:rofl:
The more I read that, the funnier it got.
:rofl:
The more I read that, the funnier it got.
Hah hah hah, yeah. Wait, what were we talking about again?
w2amr
09-15-2014, 04:11 PM
Hah hah hah, yeah. Wait, what were we talking about again?The other Tony Stewart I guess.:chin:
The lawn. Something to do with the lawn... HEY! YOU! Get offa my lawn! --wasn't that an old Rolling Stones song?
w2amr
09-16-2014, 03:51 AM
The lawn. Something to do with the lawn... HEY! YOU! Get offa my lawn! --wasn't that an old Rolling Stones song?
I think it was this guy. https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQauKafIjuWEVtEP2B14HzLq7OnDSrum UktKYEsS6f1XCOacvRLdg
K4WGE
09-16-2014, 05:37 PM
A grand jury will decide whether NASCAR driver Tony Stewart will be charged in the death of a fellow driver at a sprint car race last month. I-Team 8 first broke the story. The district attorney in Ontario County New York says after reviewing the evidence collected by the sheriffs department he is going to hand it over to a grand jury...
Ontario County New York district attorney Michael Tantillo could have determined there wasn’t enough evidence and dropped the case.
In a statement he says grand jury proceedings in New York are “strictly confidential” so he can’t disclose who will be called as witnesses or when the grand jury will hear the case. He says he will advise the media and public when the grand jury has a decision.
http://wishtv.com/2014/09/16/tony-stewarts-case-heads-to-grand-jury/
Saw this here. They're punting.
Not quite as cut and dry as expected. Time will tell.
The lawn. Something to do with the lawn... HEY! YOU! Get offa my lawn! --wasn't that an old Rolling Stones song?
No, you're thinking of that old Scottish song Hey, Mc Cloud, Get Off of My Ewe.
No, you're thinking of that old Scottish song Hey, Mc Cloud, Get Off of My Ewe.
Wasn't that by Ram?
K7SGJ
09-17-2014, 02:04 PM
It now looks like the accident is going before a gran jury to see if there are grounds for prosecution. From the video that I saw, I don't see how he could be charged with anything I am aware of. But maybe there are some videos from a different perspective that show something different and more deliberate.
It now looks like the accident is going before a gran jury to see if there are grounds for prosecution. From the video that I saw, I don't see how he could be charged with anything I am aware of. But maybe there are some videos from a different perspective that show something different and more deliberate.
AND as we know, he was aquitted by same. So, they'll release the information on this case so that the public will know and there will not be any 'conspiracy theories' on this, right??
NOPE.
The findings from the investigation into the death of Kevin Ward Jr., who was struck and killed by NASCAR star driver Tony Stewart in August at Canandaigua Motorsports Park, will remain a mystery for now, as the county has sealed the records.
Messenger Post Newspapers filed a Freedom of Information Law request in September following the announcement that a grand jury had cleared Stewart Sept. 24. This past week, the county denied the request, saying the official records from the case are sealed.
Read more: http://www.brightonpittsfordpost.com/article/20141011/News/141019889#ixzz3Fvfcuwgd
FOIA? Rejected. What crap. Paid off comes to mind.
WØTKX
10-12-2014, 10:54 AM
Kevin Ward Jr. showed THC in his system. So, in the minds of many, it was his fault.
Of course, he may have NOT been impaired at the time, but again...
The biggest thing is he jumped out of a car into moving traffic to confront Tony.
Even in a road rage public street incident, that is just incredibly stupid.
Sorry, Darwin Award.
KG4CGC
10-12-2014, 11:06 AM
Indeed. Darwin Award nominee and recipient.
There may be numerous (and legitimate) reasons for a Grand Jury investigation to be sealed.
Please note, from the linked news story...
The decision to seal the investigation files is based on a precedent set by another case — Liebowitz v Safir, 1998 — that requires cases to be sealed automatically when the suspect is cleared of any wrongdoing. Tantillo and Sheriff Phil Povero deferred comment to the Ontario County Attorney’s Office, which handles FOIL requests.
“It would apply to anyone in a case like this,” said Assistant County Attorney Kris Thorsness.
The state’s Criminal Procedure Law dictates that any time an individual or criminal matter proceeding is terminated in favor of an individual, all of the official records are sealed, Thorsness said.
< snip >
The only way the records, including the police, grand jury and coroner’s records could be released is through a court order issued by a judge.
Jobin-Davis said it is not common, in her experience, for people to petition the court to unseal a record.
"You can see public policy behind it, because we have presumption of innocence until proven guilty,” Thorsness said. “People get accused of things all the time or are investigated for things all the time. My sense is that legislators said ‘That stuff shouldn’t be public fodder. These essentially are unfounded or unsubstantiated accusations. We know what kind of damage that can do to people’s reputations.’”
Sounds like the case is being treated just like every other case with a similar Grand Jury result.
The point is this is not anybody. And there is big money involved. Let the case and its investigation be poured over. Let the public know what they're tax dollars were spent on. Better yet, if there's nothing to hide, why hide it?
Sorry, but the BS meter just got pinned.
He didn't do it? The investigation proved that? Then releasing the information under the FOIA would put an end to any discussions that he was at fault. So, not releasing it has what effect?
K7SGJ
10-13-2014, 03:41 PM
Looks like Brad Keselowski, Tony Stewart, and Danica Patrick had a three way last night.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2014/10/11/matt-kenseth-brad-keselowski-fight-in-garage-after-charlotte-bank-of-america-500/17138145/
The track video gets interesting around 2:35.
Seems like NASCAR is giving ice hockey a run for the money.
w2amr
10-13-2014, 04:52 PM
Looks like Brad Keselowski, Tony Stewart, and Danica Patrick had a three way last night.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2014/10/11/matt-kenseth-brad-keselowski-fight-in-garage-after-charlotte-bank-of-america-500/17138145/
The track video gets interesting around 2:35.
Seems like NASCAR is giving ice hockey a run for the money.
More like the WWF.
WØTKX
10-13-2014, 06:39 PM
NASCAR has always been a bit like that, it's why it's so popular.
I prefer road races and rallying. Remember the IMSA GT series?
http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/24753569.kpzpDrM6.jpg
I only like racing in which the cars must turn in both directions.
WØTKX
10-13-2014, 06:51 PM
Is the fact that NASCAR turns are to the left irony?
Is the fact that NASCAR turns are to the left irony?
Well, with all them durned libtards that NASCAR attracts, it's only natural that the cars would turn to the left.
K7SGJ
10-13-2014, 06:53 PM
NASCAR has always been a bit like that, it's why it's so popular.
I prefer road races and rallying. Remember the IMSA GT series?
http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/24753569.kpzpDrM6.jpg
I, too, like road rallies. There is a lot more skill involved than just going fast, left turns, and dodging people. It's a real team effort between the driver and the navigator. It's too bad they aren't as popular as they used to be. I guess law enforcement had problems with some teams breaking the law, although there is no need if the navigator is good at his job.
WØTKX
10-13-2014, 06:55 PM
Yea, even timed road rallies at legal speed are a hoot. I did a few of those in the 70's.
KG4CGC
10-13-2014, 08:29 PM
The point is this is not anybody. And there is big money involved. Let the case and its investigation be poured over. Let the public know what they're tax dollars were spent on. Better yet, if there's nothing to hide, why hide it?
Sorry, but the BS meter just got pinned.
He didn't do it? The investigation proved that? Then releasing the information under the FOIA would put an end to any discussions that he was at fault. So, not releasing it has what effect?
Sir.
You watched the dipshit jump out of his car and walk across a live track as if he was in his living room. The ONLY reason there was a grand jury investigation was because of all the boy's angry friends and moron locals.
You also watched him put out his hand as if he was going to stop a speeding train with it.
Sir.
You watched the dipshit jump out of his car and walk across a live track as if he was in his living room. The ONLY reason there was a grand jury investigation was because of all the boy's angry friends and moron locals.
You also watched him put out his hand as if he was going to stop a speeding train with it.
So, in your mind it's alright that the cops with-hold information on this case, but not in Ferguson?
Got it.
K7SGJ
10-14-2014, 07:18 PM
Is the fact that NASCAR turns are to the left irony?
If they all turned to the right, there wouldn't be much of a race.
We have car fighting, more car fighting, fist fighting, more fistfighting, crews fighting...
NASCAR fined Keselowski $50,000 and placed on him on probation for the next four NASCAR Sprint Cup Series championship events through Nov. 12 for “actions detrimental to stock car racing” and for a “behavioral penalty” involving his post-race actions in last Saturday’s race.
Stewart has been fined $25,000 and placed on probation for the next four NASCAR Sprint Cup Series championship events through Nov. 12 for the same violations.
Denny Hamlin and Matt Kenseth, who both tried to fight Keselowski after the race because he bumped their cars on the cool-down lap, were not fined.
That comes in contrast to the $27,000 fine levied to Marcos Ambrose (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/motor-sport/marcos-ambrose-fined-over-nascar-pit-lane-punchup-with/story-e6frf3z3-1226900621566) earlier this year after his post-race punch up with Casey Mears (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/motor-sport/nascar/video-angry-marcos-ambrose-punches-nascar-rival-after-a-fiery-race-at-richmond/story-e6frf413-1226897371046) at Richmond.
Stewart backed his car into Keselowski after his car was hit from behind in the cool-down lap.
LINK (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/nascar-brawl-doesnt-attract-penalties-brad-keselowski-and-tony-stewart-fined-for-ontrack-scuffle/story-fnkgfuui-1227091005121?nk=b7fb9a1e794c71c1ac685a0f29ff9aee)
Interesting. I mean that being involved in a "accident" that killed someone and Stewart wasn't ALREADY under probation??? What does it take for NASCAR to actually put someone under probation? Mass murder? Pretty hard to hide this video, Hm? No cops to pay off.
In any other sport this would be considered a black eye. Not NASCAR.
http://youtu.be/fJn2RSp1eXQ
W5BRM
10-14-2014, 07:26 PM
If they all turned to the right, there wouldn't be much of a race.
They'd be racing in Australia methinks
NA4BH
10-14-2014, 08:30 PM
Talladega weekend, should be a great show. Can't wait to see how one asswipe ruins the whole season for some of the contenders. As always, I have tickets to the best seats in the house CHECM 'EM OUT (http://www.seats3d.com/international_speedway_corporation/talladega_superspeedway/#/p_tri_oval_twr_c_d_1/) and will try to post pictures of the race.
kd6nig
10-14-2014, 08:53 PM
The reason why Tony Stewart wasn't on probation? He puts butts on seats.
This incident will cause even more of them to plant this coming weekend, if it wasn't sold out already. TV ratings will probably go up a tick, too.
I don't know if the drivers get a share of their merchandizing, but if they do, those fines will probably be paid by that alone.
'Dega is a good draw anyway because its pedal to the floor. Yep...only takes one person getting loose and the local scrapyard will be jumping for joy.
This is the kind of drama the WWE would kill for nowadays...
K7SGJ
10-14-2014, 09:26 PM
Talladega weekend, should be a great show. Can't wait to see how one asswipe ruins the whole season for some of the contenders. As always, I have tickets to the best seats in the house CHECM 'EM OUT (http://www.seats3d.com/international_speedway_corporation/talladega_superspeedway/#/p_tri_oval_twr_c_d_1/) and will try to post pictures of the race.
Aren't those the seats that got hit with all the car parts from that crash last year, caused by the Minnesota Madman driving the 69 car, while trying to make a right turn?
NA4BH
10-14-2014, 09:50 PM
Joshua, I hope it's not sold out. The past few years it has been all but empty and it still takes 3 hours to get home (20 miles). 2 1/2 hours getting out of the parking lot, 30 minutes to get home from there.
Eddie, I was at the race back in 85 (+/-) when Allison went through the fence. They stopped the race for over 3 hours, damn near ran out of beer.
They [...] damn near ran out of beer.
The...horror! The......horror!
http://themovierat.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/apocalypse_now2.gif
So, in your mind it's alright that the cops with-hold information on this case, but not in Ferguson?
Got it.On the contrary...
First off, it's not the police that are "withholding information." It's the District Attorney's office.
It was explained... see the link in your own earlier post, which I referenced above in Post 58... in a news article that it is STANDARD PROCEDURE for the DA's office to seal the Grand Jury information in ALL cases where they declined to file an indictment, to protect the innocent. (And that is not saying that Stewart is "innocent", since there is a huge difference between being "innocent" and a finding of insufficient evidence to sustain an indictment.)
Think about it. If you were unjustly accused of a crime, and the Grand Jury, after hearing the evidence and testimony (much of which would not be admissible in court, the rules for Grand Juries are different than the rules for Trial), declined to indict you... would you want all of the nasty things said about you made public? Especially things that weren't true, or were due to the bias of or a mistake by the witness?
Regardless... the news report also issued that a request had been made to a judge to unseal the Grand Jury transcripts. Again, as per proper procedure. Let's see if a judge agrees that it's in the public interest to make an exception and release the information.
On the contrary...
First off, it's not the police that are "withholding information." It's the District Attorney's office.
It was explained... see the link in your own earlier post, which I referenced above in Post 58... in a news article that it is STANDARD PROCEDURE for the DA's office to seal the Grand Jury information in ALL cases where they declined to file an indictment, to protect the innocent. (And that is not saying that Stewart is "innocent", since there is a huge difference between being "innocent" and a finding of insufficient evidence to sustain an indictment.)
Think about it. If you were unjustly accused of a crime, and the Grand Jury, after hearing the evidence and testimony (much of which would not be admissible in court, the rules for Grand Juries are different than the rules for Trial), declined to indict you... would you want all of the nasty things said about you made public? Especially things that weren't true, or were due to the bias of or a mistake by the witness?
Regardless... the news report also issued that a request had been made to a judge to unseal the Grand Jury transcripts. Again, as per proper procedure. Let's see if a judge agrees that it's in the public interest to make an exception and release the information.
I want to see them deny that evidence to the family when a civil suit comes up. That ought to be interesting.
Funny, where I come from, the DA makes the call, not the cops. The DA took it to the grand jury, and was in possession of the evidence, so he just chucked it back to the cops? Not done that way in other parts of NYS.
WØTKX
10-15-2014, 08:14 PM
I bet a civil suit will never come up.
THC in the bloodstream.
Thuglife.
KG4CGC
10-15-2014, 09:40 PM
So, in your mind it's alright that the cops with-hold information on this case, but not in Ferguson?
Got it.
Yes. I think it's OK if the cops "with-hold" information as you put it but not in Ferguson.
I want to see them deny that evidence to the family when a civil suit comes up. That ought to be interesting.
Funny, where I come from, the DA makes the call, not the cops. The DA took it to the grand jury, and was in possession of the evidence, so he just chucked it back to the cops? Not done that way in other parts of NYS.When did I ever say that the DA gave the "evidence" back to the cops? Where did anyone say that?
Testimony & other materials presented before the Grand Jury MAY or MAY NOT be considered evidence in a future trial hearing.
Clearly the material presented was not sufficient to sway the Grand Jury to indict. Why?
Or are you implying that the DA was in cahoots with the cops and "persuaded" the Grand Jury not to indict. If so, what specifically leads you to said implication, outside of general distrust of the authorities?
(Surely you're not falling into the trap of presuming what you want to believe must be the truth, regardless of the facts... else you begin to sound like another party that has not been allowed ashore in quite a few years)
K4WGE
10-16-2014, 10:26 AM
I bet a civil suit will never come up.
THC in the bloodstream.
Thuglife.
Contributory and Comparative Negligence in New York
Attorneys who handle personal injury claims must be able to anticipate certain defense strategies the defendant might use. Identifying potential arguments that could significantly affect the outcome is almost as important as filing the case within the statute of limitations. Claiming contributory negligence means alleging that the plaintiff's own negligence was a factor in the injury, car collision or truck or bus accident. In certain states, proving that a plaintiff was at all contributorily negligent disqualifies him or her from entitlement to any compensation. Before 1975, this was the negligence law in New York. New York is now one of 13 states that recognizes pure comparative fault. The comparative negligence statute (New York Civil Practice Law and Rules 1411, passed in 1975) states that when both the plaintiff and the defendant were negligent, the court must determine each party’s percentage of fault and award damages proportionally.
- See more at: http://www.sepeandomahony.com/long-island/personal-injury/negligence-laws/#sthash.uYxhDwuI.dpuf
kb2crk
10-16-2014, 10:39 AM
I find it interesting that so many think Stewart is guilty even though the initial wreck was not his fault. I have watched the video and it appears that the kid was to high in the corner and his rear wheel hit the wall causing the spin out. He was trying to pass Stewart on the outside on a dirt track. He ran up to a moving open wheeled car and was run over by the right rear tire. THC in his system or not, this was his fault, not Stewart. If it had been any other driver on that track besides Stewart there would not have been a Grand Jury Investigation as the video shows quite clearly what happened. The Grand Jury also had 2 videos to go over, not just the one on the interwebs.
WØTKX
10-16-2014, 10:53 AM
No, Stewart wasn't at fault, THC or no in Ward's system.
But that stops any premise of a civil suit. It's over.
Unfortunately, so is the life of a talented racer.
But, this is a forum. :deadhorse:
I bet a civil suit will never come up.
THC in the bloodstream.
Thuglife.
Get an independent coroner. Smells to high heaven. Get a bloodthirsty litigator, one that's hungry and smells the big money. Get someone who knows whether or not they can seal this case when they don't in NYC or most other jurisdictions in the state.
But this is a NASCAR driver, so it's okay.
Yes. I think it's OK if the cops "with-hold" information as you put it but not in Ferguson.
Seems kinda picky. I think both should be more forthcoming. Oh right, this is a millionaire killing a white kid. That's okay? If anything the investigation has exonerated him. So, releasing it would exonerate him in the public eye.
Or would it? Is there some other reason it's not coming out??
http://i62.tinypic.com/ogvt3q.jpg
KG4CGC
10-16-2014, 12:36 PM
Seems kinda picky. I think both should be more forthcoming. Oh right, this is a millionaire killing a white kid. That's okay? If anything the investigation has exonerated him. So, releasing it would exonerate him in the public eye.
Or would it? Is there some other reason it's not coming out??
Yep. And if you know me at all, you know I always back the status quo in any given situation.
Yep. And if you know me at all, you know I always back the status quo in any given situation.
Being an ex-LEO with jurisdiction throughout NYS, this stinks - AFAIC.
kb2crk
10-16-2014, 01:08 PM
Seems kinda picky. I think both should be more forthcoming. Oh right, this is a millionaire killing a white kid. That's okay? If anything the investigation has exonerated him. So, releasing it would exonerate him in the public eye.
Or would it? Is there some other reason it's not coming out??
http://i62.tinypic.com/ogvt3q.jpg
This was a white kid running into the path of a moving car....... Darwin Award recipient.
Had it been a black kid Tony Stewart would have been lynched by rioters.
This was a white kid running into the path of a moving car....... Darwin Award recipient.
Had it been a black kid Tony Stewart would have been lynched by rioters.
Exactly. Equality appears to be a one-way street. Not the definition I've always heard. NHE agrees.
WØTKX
10-16-2014, 02:48 PM
Had it been a black kid Tony Stewart would have been lynched by rioters.
Oh, fergawdsake. :roll:
K7SGJ
10-16-2014, 03:15 PM
Is it just me................or................does it seem like a lot of threads end up going racial, political, gun related, religion, or mention Hitler? Maybe I just full of shit as a Christmas goose.
And, just because I don't know, how full of shit IS a Christmas goose? That, by the way, is shot 20 times with an AR15, by a black Southern Baptist, that is a Democrat, and is served to a man named Adolph.
See what I mean? :stirpot:
Is it just me................or................does it seem like a lot of threads end up going racial, political, gun related, religion, or mention Hitler? Maybe I just full of shit as a Christmas goose.
It's Obama's fault. Seriously. All the racists have come out of the closet since 2008.
w2amr
10-16-2014, 04:32 PM
This was a white kid running into the path of a moving car....... Darwin Award recipient.
Had it been a black kid Tony Stewart would have been lynched by rioters.:lol:
It's Obama's fault. Seriously. All the racists have come out of the closet since 2008.
I'll mention it to the better half. She's African-American. I'm sure she'll be surprised.
;)
WØTKX
10-16-2014, 05:18 PM
Is it just me................or................does it seem like a lot of threads end up going racial, political, gun related, religion, or mention Hitler? Maybe I just full of shit as a Christmas goose.
And, just because I don't know, how full of shit IS a Christmas goose? That, by the way, is shot 20 times with an AR15, by a black Southern Baptist, that is a Democrat, and is served to a man named Adolph.
See what I mean? :stirpot:
It's election season. :hyper:
K7SGJ
10-16-2014, 07:16 PM
It's election season. :hyper:
Is that anything like deer season? Does that mean you can bag a politician?
Is that anything like deer season? Does that mean you can bag a politician?Well, I know of a few politicians that are half in the bag.
KG4CGC
10-16-2014, 11:08 PM
Being an ex-LEO with jurisdiction throughout NYS, this stinks - AFAIC.
I think I've lost you.
Being an ex-LEO with jurisdiction throughout NYS, this stinks - AFAIC.I think I've lost you.Oh, it's simple.
He's made up his mind based on his initial read of the situation, and no further facts, testimony, videos, or other evidence will persuade him.
Since the Grand Jury findings disagreed with his opinion, it is obvious (therefore) that something "stinks".
Sounds like my mother-in-law.
I think I've lost you.
When I had PO status, it was throughout the state. They have since done away with that for the newer PO's so that they have jurisdiction only on-campus, so that now they actually have to wait until someone is on campus to take any actions. Based on my training and what I personally observed in that vid, Stewart looks like he got away with it. Any information that would bring light to that would be welcome, but apparently there's something to hide. That video is all the evidence that there is to see, there is nothing else to draw information from. SO... if the preponderance of the evidence showed he was guiltless, then it would be a simple matter to release it and dispel any and all doubts.
But it would seem that is too much to expect. What they do expect is that people will forget and NASCAR will have no future problems with this matter.
If last weekend is any indicator, that attitude will bite them on the ass soon enough. Sooner than they expect, which is never.
< snip >
Based on my training and what I personally observed in that vid, Stewart looks like he got away with it. Any information that would bring light to that would be welcome, but apparently there's something to hide. That video is all the evidence that there is to see, there is nothing else to draw information from.
< snip >Well, if the judge agrees with you, the seal will be lifted and the other evidence will be available to the public.
With all due respect, though... what I see on that video is a hot-head getting out of his car, on a hot race track, with moving traffic -- other race cars going at or near race speed. I do not believe that TS deliberately aimed at the kid; I do believe that by the time he saw the kid, if he even did, he did not have enough time to react, at race speed, to avoid him.
In short, sorry to say, the kid caused his own demise. IMHO.
I'm not expert. I could be wrong. And evidence may exist to show that I'm wrong. But after 30+ years at vintage races, watching the cars speed by -- from the vantage point of the corner/flag workers, not safely back in the public viewing area 100 or more feet away -- and having an idea of just how fast those cars go, and how little reaction time you have... I don't think I am.
KG4CGC
10-18-2014, 07:36 PM
When I had PO status, it was throughout the state. They have since done away with that for the newer PO's so that they have jurisdiction only on-campus, so that now they actually have to wait until someone is on campus to take any actions. Based on my training and what I personally observed in that vid, Stewart looks like he got away with it. Any information that would bring light to that would be welcome, but apparently there's something to hide. That video is all the evidence that there is to see, there is nothing else to draw information from. SO... if the preponderance of the evidence showed he was guiltless, then it would be a simple matter to release it and dispel any and all doubts.
But it would seem that is too much to expect. What they do expect is that people will forget and NASCAR will have no future problems with this matter.
If last weekend is any indicator, that attitude will bite them on the ass soon enough. Sooner than they expect, which is never.
The boy walked out on the track, walked into the path of 2 cars before he walked in front of Stewart's car and put his hand out as if he was going to grab and stop the vehicle. I call him a boy now because no grown man with enough sense to press a gas pedal and work a clutch would have walked out on a live track.
The THC thing does not answer whether he had active THC in his system or metabolites. What we do know is that he was young, pumped up on adrenalin and testosterone AND he was apparently angry. That in itself can be a volatile combination.
I'm not a Stewart fan. Just calling it like I (and millions of others) saw it. Yes. His (the boy's) fans and friends were upset. They went straight to the shit talk as soon as it happened. That convinced a lot of easily manipulated people who cling to tin foil hat theories to buy into it just because it fits their narrative of everything that they believe in. They are the same people who now say that President Obama allowed Ebola to be brought to the US for population control. They'll repeat anything and they'll repeat it often.
The GJ did what they were supposed to do and followed the law the way it is written today. There is no cover up. No payoff.
ETA: and what Ron said minus the 30 years part for me.
WØTKX
10-18-2014, 07:49 PM
Well, most of us here are critical thinkers and agree.
I spent a lot of weekends supporting SCCA racing. So, like Ron, I'm resigned to the fact that Ward Jr's unsafe behavior is the reason he is dead. That's that, and there is nothing more to it.
Now, I guess we can wonder what training is available to de-program tin foil hats.
So, like Ron, I'm resigned to the fact that Ward Jr's unsafe behavior is the reason he is dead. That's that, and there is nothing more to it.
Now, I guess we can wonder what training is available to de-program tin foil hats.
http://i.imgur.com/3xCK1O7.gif
KG4CGC
10-18-2014, 11:06 PM
And, John. To be sure, I have a great deal of respect for you. I just completely disagree with you on this.
Well, if the judge agrees with you, the seal will be lifted and the other evidence will be available to the public.
With all due respect, though... what I see on that video is a hot-head getting out of his car, on a hot race track, with moving traffic -- other race cars going at or near race speed. I do not believe that TS deliberately aimed at the kid; I do believe that by the time he saw the kid, if he even did, he did not have enough time to react, at race speed, to avoid him.
In short, sorry to say, the kid caused his own demise. IMHO.
I'm not expert. I could be wrong. And evidence may exist to show that I'm wrong. But after 30+ years at vintage races, watching the cars speed by -- from the vantage point of the corner/flag workers, not safely back in the public viewing area 100 or more feet away -- and having an idea of just how fast those cars go, and how little reaction time you have... I don't think I am.
And, John. To be sure, I have a great deal of respect for you. I just completely disagree with you on this.
I understand and I appreciate where both of you stand also. My feelings on this from what I'm seeing are these:
1) Yes the kid blew it by going on the track. I remember when I was 20 and I grew up in times when you got mature quick, a lot quicker than a 20 y.o. of today. We still made our mistakes. I don't think being 20 should be a death sentence.
2) I have a problem with the assertion that Stewart didn't have time to react. Racers have very quick reflexes, especially experienced racers like Stewart. I know from my radio days how fast I can react and he's got me beat. Then there's what he sees. I'm not sure about that, but most racers know exactly what's in front of them. They're trained to see what we don't even know to look for. Lastly he gunned the engine and the car slid into the kid. If he didn't see him, how could he time that so well?
3) Stewart seems to have a problem with younger drivers in races he's in. I've seen enough footage of his altercations, most seem to be with people much younger than he is. He's getting into his forties now, he isn't worried about the hazards of racing, he's aware of them but if they really bothered him he'd be ineffective as a racer and out of work or dead. He's thinking about mortality in a different way, getting older and seeing these younger racers, the newer crop, the guys who'll be there when he's gone - this is making him more aware of his future. He's not alone in this, but he is in a profession where life and death are easily excused and he's also aware of that. SO young guns and he's seeing what's next. -And he doesn't like it.
That's my take. I could be wrong.
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