Knowing how, but not knowing why?

[K9CCH]

So what is your opinion of ham's that know how to operate, but don't know WHY things operate? In other words they can talk and type, but can't repair/build their own stuff? Are there lots of ham's like that?

[WØTKX]

The typical response is "appliance operators".

[XE1/N5AL]

Amateur radio is a diverse subject, and hams have all kinds of interests and talents in the hobby. Some are very skilled operators, but don't know how to build anything. Others build all kinds of stuff, but don't really enjoy operating (or even using the stuff they built). Most hams fall somewhere in between these two extremes.

Still, no matter what you do know in life, there is plenty of room to learn more!

[KG4CGC]

There's something for everyone of any level. Even the haters.

[KC2UGV]

So what is your opinion of ham's that know how to operate, but don't know WHY things operate? In other words they can talk and type, but can't repair/build their own stuff? Are there lots of ham's like that?

I don't know about "lot's of hams", I know I am generally in that boat. I can't build a transceiver (I can build a crystal receiver, got that far), but forget building gems like this:
http://www.amateurradio.com/x1m-qrp-ssbcw-transceiver-kit/

I can build antennas ok, but that's not rocket surgery.

[WX7P]

I'm not much of a brain scientist either...

[n0iu]

So what is your opinion of ham's that know how to operate, but don't know WHY things operate?

With all due respect (uh oh, now you know you're in trouble!), why does this matter?

One of the guys who was in the club I used to belong to finally made Extra once the code tests were dropped. It took him about 10 times to pass, but finally he did, with no room to spare. OTOH, if anyone ever needed help around their house (and not necessarily radio-related), he was always the first one there.

The fact that he didn't know shit about how a radio works is totally unimportant. The guy was a good friend who was there when you needed him so why would I care if he didn't know what goes on inside a radio?

[K9CCH]

With all due respect (uh oh, now you know you're in trouble!), why does this matter?




Because sometimes I feel a bit fraud-ish. Like I'm trying to do something that I know absolutely nothing about. Which really isn't true because I have a very basic understanding of a lot of things, but there's so much that I dont know and aren't sure that I'll ever fully understand. Sometimes when I over analyze my interest in the hobby, I start to doubt myself and my "worthiness" of being here so to speak.

Like today I passed my neighbors house and saw his antenna. He's got a vertical antenna which I'm assuming is his HF antenna because its at the top of his tower. And that led me to thinking about the emitting pattern of the waves - if that's what it is called. I understand the concept of wavelengths, but I dont understand the patterns or whatever its called.

And then because I dont know anything about what I'm actually trying to think about, I get frustrated and sometimes start wondering why I'm even doing this.

[K9CCH]

And I'm thinking about whether or not I have a valid place in a radio club or not...

[K7SGJ]

There is a lot to know about radio, and you will never know it all. Just get a good "basic" knowledge and dig in to the areas that really interest you. You can also over do your interest right out of the hobby, too. My interests in communications and electronics provided me with a career in the field, so I had to learn and understand a lot more than the average ham who is only in it for the hobby. Even spending the majority of my life in this field, I don't know as much as I would like to know, there is always more. The whole hobby has branched into so many different areas with digital, atv, rtty, cw, homebrew, sat-com, and so many others, you can only hope to learn the areas you find interesting. It's like any hobby, you get out what you put in, and you will never know it all. (well one person thinks he does, but that's in another thread)

I think the most important aspect of this, or any other hobby, is not knowing all the answers, but knowing where to find them, and asking for guidance from someone you trust. And hopefully, when appropriate, that someone can be honest enough to say "I don't know the answer, but I'll help you find it".

[W5BRM]

dont worry about a valid place anywhere. Its a hobby and you get out of it what YOU want. If something interests you, begin studying on it Find articles on how antennas work. Get the Extra study guide. Look at it and use google as a study aid. Better yet, get some of the ARRL books on various areas. I learned a lot by studying for my Extra. Things I didn't understand or began to interest me, I went and found books on and read them. Just dont expect to get a full understanding of the entirety of ham radio in only a few short years. It'll take a lifetime to begin to understand EVERYTHING. Go with what interests you and expand from there. Take your time and enjoy it like a fine meal. Its NOT mcdonalds...lol

[KJ3N]

Because sometimes I feel a bit fraud-ish. Like I'm trying to do something that I know absolutely nothing about. Which really isn't true because I have a very basic understanding of a lot of things, but there's so much that I dont know and aren't sure that I'll ever fully understand. Sometimes when I over analyze my interest in the hobby, I start to doubt myself and my "worthiness" of being here so to speak.

Like today I passed my neighbors house and saw his antenna. He's got a vertical antenna which I'm assuming is his HF antenna because its at the top of his tower. And that led me to thinking about the emitting pattern of the waves - if that's what it is called. I understand the concept of wavelengths, but I dont understand the patterns or whatever its called.

And then because I dont know anything about what I'm actually trying to think about, I get frustrated and sometimes start wondering why I'm even doing this.

This will help....

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/Doobie.jpg

Smoke first, worry later.

[K9CCH]

Lol. Technically now that I'm out of law enforcement I guess I could do that...

[KJ3N]

My point is to stop worrying and move on forward.

[WX7P]

My point is to stop worrying and move on forward.

No kidding.

I've been a ham for 31 years and my technical knowledge is pretty shitty, and I don't care.

If I took it to heart every time some smelly flea market denizen trashed me for not being able to tell the difference between different types of tubes or whatever, I would have given this up a long time ago.

The same thing goes for CW. I'm not very good at it, but I learned the 20 wpm code to get my extra back in 1989. I haven't touched CW since. I bet I've had a lot more fun on the air than a lot of the uptight CW purists. BTW, CW purists aren't just older hams. CW has been used as a hammer to belittle new hams forever and I see it from hams that were first licensed in the post CW requirement era. Tune the naysayers out.

The best thing (I think) for anyone new to the hobby is figure out how to operate before you even touch a key. I listened both on HF and VHF for 9 months before I did anything on the air. Then you can decide what you want to do and gravitate toward the people you think are simpatico. Getting into a good group is not always easy. For example, the NCCC (Northern California Contest Club) was a great group of people. The contest club here, not so much. It goes for nets and anything else.

That's why I've never understood why people who post about "bad operators" insist on listening to them on the air. If they are really that bad, don't listen. If they are idiots, don't talk about them, attention whores and drama queens are in abundance in ham radio and love the attention.

[NQ6U]

As mentioned above, don't sweat it.

You've been a ham for, what, a year now? You can't expect to grasp the full scope of amateur radio in that short amount of time. Some people never even try. There are many who have been hams for years and are superb operators but when it comes to technical stuff they have no clue. The chairman of my own ARC is that way; ask him about gray line propagation or how to work a pile-up and he's right there with the answer. Ask him about building a simple linear power supply using a bridge rectifier, however, and he'll direct you to someone else. He doesn't know, doesn't care, and neither should you if that aspect of the hobby holds no interest for you.

Embrace the stuff you find fascinating and don't worry about the rest. Besides, over time, you'll find that you pick up on a lot of things more or less by osmosis just by reading or hanging around with other ops. If you haven't already, join the ARRL and start reading QST magazine. You can learn a lot from the ads alone. Hell, even this place is a great source of good information, although it takes some practice to sort it out from the frequent smart-ass remarks (and, yes, I am as guilty as anyone else here when it comes to those...).

[XE1/N5AL]

You may already know quite a bit more than you are giving yourself credit. There are plenty of people out there who "talk a good game", but really don't have a clear idea of what they are saying. We feel we have less knowledge than them, when we really don't. They just know all the jargon, buzz words and marketing hype.

At one place where I worked, we had this engineer whose apparent skill and knowledge scared everyone else in the group. He spoke so eloquently and with so much authority that the other engineers felt quite a bit inferior to him. That is, until one day, when this "super engineer" turned in his resignation.

After his resignation, a close review of his work showed that he really didn't know what he was doing. His work was crap and his progress reports to the boss were all faked. In fact, for the previous year, the guy had been desperately looking for another job, because he knew that he would eventually be discovered.

Everyone in our group felt foolish about falling for the deception.

[n0iu]

And I'm thinking about whether or not I have a valid place in a radio club or not...

You must have run into this guy at your last club meeting:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/51955418.jpg

Sounds like you may be in the wrong club! I was president of my club for 2 years back when I was ONLY a Technician.

[WØTKX]

Appliance operators still operate, eh? ;)

All kidding aside, here's a cool presentation. Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/j2gOh39IyPM


http://youtu.be/j2gOh39IyPM

[KC2UGV]

Because sometimes I feel a bit fraud-ish. Like I'm trying to do something that I know absolutely nothing about.

It's a hobby. There's no award for Extra licensees lol Have fun. If you're having fun playing radios, I think you know enough about radios to have an extra.

[KG4CGC]

It's a hobby. There's no award for Extra licensees lol Have fun. If you're having fun playing radios, I think you know enough about radios to have an extra.

True. I'm an Extra. So what? Don't ask me any math questions. My contribution to AR is making antennas using a simple formula. Frequency divided by 468 or 234. After that, I fly by the seat of my pants. Then there's squirrel fishing. That's what I call using fishing gear to hang wires. 2 oz weight, fling it up as high as possible, let weight drop, remove weight attach rope, reel in rope, attach wire, pull rope.
I'm pretty damn spectacular at it if I do say so myself ... and I do.

[W3WN]

So what is your opinion of ham's that know how to operate, but don't know WHY things operate? In other words they can talk and type, but can't repair/build their own stuff? Are there lots of ham's like that?Appliance Operators.

There have always been some. I'd say that the number of appliance ops, as a percentage, has grown exponentially the last few decades. Not surprising, since so few build their own gear anymore, but simply buy it.

So?

[K9CCH]

True. I'm an Extra. So what? Don't ask me any math questions. My contribution to AR is making antennas using a simple formula. Frequency divided by 468 or 234. After that, I fly by the seat of my pants. Then there's squirrel fishing. That's what I call using fishing gear to hang wires. 2 oz weight, fling it up as high as possible, let weight drop, remove weight attach rope, reel in rope, attach wire, pull rope.
I'm pretty damn spectacular at it if I do say so myself ... and I do.



ROTFLMAO!!!!! This HAS to be nominated for a 2014 best post! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Squirrel fishing! *snort*

[K9CCH]

Appliance operators still operate, eh? ;)

All kidding aside, here's a cool presentation. Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/j2gOh39IyPM





AMEN!! I know what I'm doing on lunch!!!

[KG4CGC]

ROTFLMAO!!!!! This HAS to be nominated for a 2014 best post! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Squirrel fishing! *snort*

Too bad y'all don't have trees in Texas.

[KK4AMI]

Too bad y'all don't have trees in Texas.

It is amazing how a man's various hobbies compliment each other. I've been fishing all my life because my Dad taught me. As a result my casting with a baitcast or spinning reel is fairly accurate. When I got my amatuer license, the first thing I thought of was my baitcasting rod with a 2 ounce weight! It seemed so natural to get an antenna up into an 80 ft tall oak tree. Sling shots, bows and tennis ball cannons might be better ways to raise the wire, but Ill go with what I know and already have. Squirrel fishing is fun.

[NQ6U]

Too bad y'all don't have trees in Texas.

The do too have trees in Texas. I saw it once.

[KG4CGC]

It is amazing how a man's various hobbies compliment each other. I've been fishing all my life because my Dad taught me. As a result my casting with a baitcast or spinning reel is fairly accurate. When I got my amatuer license, the first thing I thought of was my baitcasting rod with a 2 ounce weight! It seemed so natural to get an antenna up into an 80 ft tall oak tree. Sling shots, bows and tennis ball cannons might be better ways to raise the wire, but Ill go with what I know and already have. Squirrel fishing is fun.

All those other methods are just a way to get hams to waste their money or frustrate the elderly. Tried a slingshot years ago. What a joke that was. One Field Day I watched our local professional AR club use one of those tennis ball cannons. Great entertainment for the first 30 minutes. After that it was sad. 45 minutes to get the ball and line over the branch.
The best method is the fishing rod. The squirrels are just an added bonus.

[NQ6U]

I also use the squirrel fishing method but have discovered that there are a few limitations on the technique. For instance, one of the trees I use is only a few feet from my back property line, which makes it difficult to get in the right position to cast a line over it. I tried going the other direction but the weight inevitably ended up in the neighbor's back yard, which wouldn't be a real big deal if the XYL hadn't made enemies of them shortly after we moved in.

[KJ3N]

I've used a slingshot and fishing reel (EZHang) for nearly a decade. I can't think of the last time (if ever) I owned a fishing rod.

[K9CCH]

Appliance operators still operate, eh? ;)

All kidding aside, here's a cool presentation. Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/j2gOh39IyPM




So if one person has a dipole placed parallel to the ground and facing north and south, and the other person has a dipole parallel to the ground but facing east and west, they'll never pick up each others transmissions?

Or if they do it will be because the radio waves were reflected off of some source and caused them to change directions?

And is that then Skip?

[NQ6U]

This is rather simplified:

In HF, at longer distances, the polarization doesn't matter much since it tends to get muddled during propagation anyway. It does matter in local VHF/UHF work, though.

"Skip" is a CBer's term for the way electromagnetic waves are refracted—bent, rather than reflected—by layers in the ionosphere, and then (if you're lucky) reflected off the earth's surface for another trip to the ionosphere and then back to earth again. There are a lot of variables involved in how many reflections/refractions happen at any given moment but UV radiation from the sun ionizing the upper atmosphere is probably both the most important one to us hams. That's why we watch the sunspot numbers so closely. The more sunspots there are, the more ionization takes place. More ionization means better DX propagation.

[K7SGJ]

This is rather simplified:

In HF, at longer distances, the polarization doesn't matter much since it tends to get muddled during propagation anyway. It does matter in local VHF/UHF work, though.

"Skip" is a CBer's term for the way electromagnetic waves are refracted—bent, rather than reflected—by layers in the ionosphere, and then (if you're lucky) reflected off the earth's surface for another trip to the ionosphere and then back to earth again. There are a lot of variables involved in how many reflections/refractions happen at any given moment but UV radiation from the sun ionizing the upper atmosphere is probably both the most important one to us hams. That's why we watch the sunspot numbers so closely. The more sunspots there are, the more ionization takes place. More ionization means better DX propagation.

As well as a darker tan.

[KG4CGC]

As well as a darker tan.

*insert appropriate burnt cartoon character*

[KJ3N]

As well as a darker tan.

https://m.popkey.co/5e278e/kdKdw.gif

[KJ3N]

This is rather simplified:

In HF, at longer distances, the polarization doesn't matter much since it tends to get muddled during propagation anyway. It does matter in local VHF/UHF work, though.

That's a perfectly acceptable explanation of what happens when we're talking about the differences in antenna polarization. However, Chris asked about antenna orientation. One antenna oriented N/S and the the other E/W.


So if one person has a dipole placed parallel to the ground and facing north and south, and the other person has a dipole parallel to the ground but facing east and west, they'll never pick up each others transmissions?

The answer, Chris, is that it depends on the band, height of the antennas, and distance between stations.

On 160m and 80m, both will probably hear each other regardless of which way each antenna is oriented, as long as they are within 300-500 miles of each other. This has more to do with the fact that most antennas on these bands are too low to provide much more than an NVIS pattern, where most of the RF goes straight up and then straight down.

Once you start getting more than 1/4 wavelength above ground, you start dealing with take-off angles, skip zones, and nulls in the antenna's radiation pattern. This is the situation on bands like 20m and higher, where there is little (if any) NVIS propagation possible.