Where does this misinformation come from?

[KJ3N]

Over the last few weeks, I've been running into hams online (mainly FB) who are under some misconception that since they have an FCC license, they can put up any antenna they wish in their deed restricted neighborhood. They spout vague assertions that the FCC has overruled every restriction on the planet, but when pressed they can't (or won't) provide the FCC rule or court case.

Where does this delusion come from? If the FCC had done such a thing, the online ham forums would be shouting from the rooftops. The ARRL would have it plastered all over the place in big, bold, screaming fonts. Orders for towers would be backed up for years. None of this has happened.

Some of them are under the impression that the OTARD ruling applies. It doesn't. Some think PRB-1 gives them cover. It doesn't. There are no FCC rules that trump HOAs and CCRs. No FCC rule that gives hams carte blanche, yet they insist that it does.

I just don't get it....

[KC2UGV]

Been reading eHam again?

[KJ3N]

Been reading eHam again?

No. Primarily FB, where the real stupid lives.

[N2CHX]

No. Primarily FB, where the real stupid lives.

Well there's your problem.

[KJ3N]

Well there's your problem.

Don't I know it. :roll:

It gets real interesting when they start arguing with you. The defense is always "Google it". They never provide you with anything specific. They can never quote the actual (more like mythical) FCC rule that they claim proves their delusion.

Kind of reminds me of Baggers. All hat and no cattle.

[AC8KF WALT]

stupid people playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes.

[WØTKX]

^^^ Capitalism?

:lol:

[K0RGR]

Wow! People are so misinformed on all sides of this issue that it boggles the mind.

Yes, Virginia, there is a PRB-1, but it doesn't apply to HOA's and CC+R's. If you read the OTARD rules, you quickly figure out that they don't actually do that much, if the outside of a facility is all jointly controlled and maintained. In other words, the OTARD rules DON'T let you put up a broadcast antenna anywhere you want, either! And to be honest, you have to read the rules like a lawyer - and realize that they do even less than they seem.

Amazingly, though, hams have used PRB-1 and a lot of bluster to convince their HOA"s that there IS such a law. I guess it matters a little bit how much the HOA people know.

[KJ3N]

Amazingly, though, hams have used PRB-1 and a lot of bluster to convince their HOA"s that there IS such a law. I guess it matters a little bit how much the HOA people know.

If they ever find out, there's going to be payback. Count on it.

The other problem with the above approach, is that it makes for bad relations all around. It makes it that much harder on the rest of us because some selfish, self-righteous ham leaves angry feelings in his wake.

[KG4CGC]

It's, "The Game." Each side takes a most extreme and perverse position.
Ham: I can put up anything I want and there's not a thing you can do about it.
HOA: We will tell you what you can and can not do on the property that you own.

They see the politicians do this. They see the religious cults do this. They watch people haggle on fake reality shows on TV. The difference is that the hagglers reach a compromise and the biggest difference is that the HOA got you to sign a contract which states that you will abide by the rules they set forth ... PERIOD! These hams don't have a leg to stand on. Sit down, shut up and run a camouflaged wire up a tall tree and bury your coax from the tree to the house. And do this all in the dead of night. And again, SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!

[koØm]

Sung to the tune of "I Shot The Sheriff" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRgcwT9X2J8#t=108 )

I strung the wire, but I didn't hurt the property
I strung the wire, but I didn't hurt the property

All around the Air waves, they try to QSL to my town
'Cause I'm Famous on the air waves, but from the man, I get a frown
From the man I get a frown, but I say

I strung the wire but I swear it did not hit the fence
I strung the wire but I swear it did not hit the fence

Maintenance Man Clown always hated me, for what I did not know
Every time I try to live my creed
He say, "Kill it before it glows!"
He say, "Kill it before it glows!" But I say

I strung the wire, but I didn't hurt the property
I strung the wire, but I didn't hurt the property

Freedom came my way one day; I dropped the wire to the ground
All a sudden I see Maintenance Man Clown
Aiming to cut me wire down

So I sling-sling shot him down, but I say

I strung the wire, but I didn't hurt the property
I strung the wire, but I didn't hurt the property

.

[KG4CGC]

LOL! Awesome!

[W7XF]

Best solution: DON'T BUY THE PROPERTY IF THE HOA NAZIS DO NOT ALLOW ANTENNAS!!! Chances are, the HOA enforcers have a field strength meter and do drive by licencees' homes looking for RF...

[W3WN]

Better solution: Speak with an attorney before buying any property, or agreeing to anything that might restrict your antennas now or in the future.

I've got mine all lined up. Have you?

[AC8KF WALT]

run for a hoa office and get your friends to join in. destroy it from within!

[KC2UGV]

Best solution: DON'T BUY THE PROPERTY IF THE HOA NAZIS DO NOT ALLOW ANTENNAS!!! Chances are, the HOA enforcers have a field strength meter and do drive by licencees' homes looking for RF...

Better yet: Don't buy if there's CC&R's or HOA's covering the property. I have to see the benefit of paying an enormous sum of money for the privilege of being a renter.

[W3WN]

run for a hoa office and get your friends to join in. destroy it from within!Oh! You know my friend Bill W3WH then. He is the President of his little HOA. No antenna worries for him!

[K7SGJ]

I have never understood the HOA controversy. It seems pretty simple to me. HOAs are in place to for several reasons. One one is to provide a monthly source of revenue for operating expenses for maintenance and upkeep of common areas, and to provide and maintain amenities such as pools, parks, and many others. It also insures that members follow strict rules to insure that their actions don not negatively affect property values. I'm sure there are many other benefits to those who CHOOSE to live in such an area.

If a person wants to participate in a hobby that includes antenna structures, or wants to service automobiles on their property, or any other activities not allowed in HOAs, then don't move into one. It's not like a person was "annexed" into an HOA having no choice in the matter. The CC&Rs are clearly covered, and require a signature of intended compliance prior to a home purchase in the HOA area.

Personally, I would refuse to live in a place where I had to pay an extra monthly fee such as those HOAs demand. But, if I didn't have ham radio as a hobby, didn't need to have ten 40 foot storage units on site, and wanted to live in an area where I didn't have o worry about neighbors letting their house turn into an eyesore, painting their house some god-awful color, storing old cars all over their property, or doing other things that affect my property values, I might entertain living in one.

[W3WN]

I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the restCertain people read what they want to read in PRB-1 and 47CFR97. They tend to ignore what is contrary to what they want.

[W9JEF]

.


. . . .Wooooeee! Glad I'm a Country Boy!

(Apologies to the memory of John Denver)

[KC2UGV]

I have never understood the HOA controversy. It seems pretty simple to me. HOAs are in place to for several reasons. One one is to provide a monthly source of revenue for operating expenses for maintenance and upkeep of common areas, and to provide and maintain amenities such as pools, parks, and many others. It also insures that members follow strict rules to insure that their actions don not negatively affect property values. I'm sure there are many other benefits to those who CHOOSE to live in such an area.

If a person wants to participate in a hobby that includes antenna structures, or wants to service automobiles on their property, or any other activities not allowed in HOAs, then don't move into one. It's not like a person was "annexed" into an HOA having no choice in the matter. The CC&Rs are clearly covered, and require a signature of intended compliance prior to a home purchase in the HOA area.

Personally, I would refuse to live in a place where I had to pay an extra monthly fee such as those HOAs demand. But, if I didn't have ham radio as a hobby, didn't need to have ten 40 foot storage units on site, and wanted to live in an area where I didn't have o worry about neighbors letting their house turn into an eyesore, painting their house some god-awful color, storing old cars all over their property, or doing other things that affect my property values, I might entertain living in one.

Exactly. Well put mate.

[K0RGR]

The biggest problem is that the demographics are in conflict. Those most likely to want to live in a CC+R restricted townhouse, where they don't need to do any outside chores, are also the most common age group for new recruits to ham radio. Honestly, my wife would dump our 3/4 acre 4 bedroom house for a condo today if I'd let her. I did have a chance to buy two townhomes where the developer agreed to allow me a 'reasonable' antenna just to unload, and now, I'm thinking that might have been a better idea, but honestly, I love the house I'm in, and intend to make the most of it.

As soon as high speed Internet service with no latency is available out at the wife's farm, I'll beg again for 5 acres to build my remote hamshack, and once that's up and running, I don't care if we live in a shoebox as long as it's a comfy one. I also want to try the Remoterig units to control a mobile radio conveniently parked in my driveway. If the HOA's don't allow that, either, it won't help, but if you can park a pickup truck within WiFi range, I think this might be just what's needed for CC+R'd hams.

[kb2vxa]

How many times will woo go woun an' woun on this (not so) Mewwy Go Wound befaw woo faw down an' huwt woo widdle heaaad?

[n2ize]

Better yet: Don't buy if there's CC&R's or HOA's covering the property. I have to see the benefit of paying an enormous sum of money for the privilege of being a renter.

Sometimes it is not up to the ham. I knew of a ham who was 12 years old and who strung up some wires and was making contacts and was really thrilled. Then his parents moved and they bought property in an HOA controlled area, never considering their son's hobby. A few days after he strung up his wire at the new QTH some "enforcer" came by and told them that it must be removed. the kid had to take it down and had to resort to indoor antennas which caused a dramatic rise in RFI. Eventually he just gave up on the hobby altogether. Don't know if he ever got back into it again. I can;t say I blame the parents. They never envision there would be any issues. its just something they never considered.

But yeah. Some people are mixed up. Being a licensed ham doesn't mean that you can override HOA regulations. Frankly I wouldn't move to a, HOA controlled establishment. I like to have the freedom to string up an antenna, to let my lawn be as long or short as I chose, etc. last thing I would want is to buy a home and then find out I have to check with "big daddy" to find out what I can or cannot do on my own property. heck, I know people who have more freedom living in crowded Manhattan apartments than they would have in some HOA's.

[n2ize]

The biggest problem is that the demographics are in conflict. Those most likely to want to live in a CC+R restricted townhouse, where they don't need to do any outside chores, are also the most common age group for new recruits to ham radio. Honestly, my wife would dump our 3/4 acre 4 bedroom house for a condo today if I'd let her. I did have a chance to buy two townhomes where the developer agreed to allow me a 'reasonable' antenna just to unload, and now, I'm thinking that might have been a better idea, but honestly, I love the house I'm in, and intend to make the most of it.



Heck man, if you have a home now where you are free to live and do as you please, within reason of course, then do yourself a favor and stick with it. Don't give it up for some place where you have someone on your back telling you "you can't do this", "you can't do that" on your own property.

[K7SGJ]

Sometimes it is not up to the ham. I knew of a ham who was 12 years old and who strung up some wires and was making contacts and was really thrilled. Then his parents moved and they bought property in an HOA controlled area, never considering their son's hobby. A few days after he strung up his wire at the new QTH some "enforcer" came by and told them that it must be removed. the kid had to take it down and had to resort to indoor antennas which caused a dramatic rise in RFI. Eventually he just gave up on the hobby altogether. Don't know if he ever got back into it again. I can;t say I blame the parents. They never envision there would be any issues. its just something they never considered.

But yeah. Some people are mixed up. Being a licensed ham doesn't mean that you can override HOA regulations. Frankly I wouldn't move to a, HOA controlled establishment. I like to have the freedom to string up an antenna, to let my lawn be as long or short as I chose, etc. last thing I would want is to buy a home and then find out I have to check with "big daddy" to find out what I can or cannot do on my own property. heck, I know people who have more freedom living in crowded Manhattan apartments than they would have in some HOA's.


You know, I still cannot wrap my head around all this.

If a person chooses to live in an area governed by an HOA, they will have to conform to the CC&Rs. Period. If they want to play radio, and want a beam antenna perched upon a 60 foot tower, DON'T FUCKING MOVE THERE. It is just that simple. I really believe that if an HOA came up to every single ham that lives in one, and said, knock yourself out, put up an antenna, the majority probably wouldn't.

We are hams. We are cheap. We should be inventive and creative. In the case of your little friend, he could have run some coax out his bedroom window, discretely of course, and run it to the bottom of the roof soffit. Then simply connect it to an 80 meter dipole that is made up of some #18 wire that is stapled in each direction around the house under the eves, and out of sight. I have done this. It will tune most of the ham bands with an inexpensive or homebrew tuner. Feed it through a low pass filter if necessary. Easy, cheap, effective. As good as a vertical, beam, or any other great antenna? Hell no. It's called a compromise antenna. You want, or are forced, to live in an HOA? Then that is the COMPROMISE. Or, there is the hidden antenna in the fake flagpole, too. But a lot of the people would rather bitch than experiment. I don't get it.

When I first started in radio, uphill in the snow both ways, I was only 13 and we had no money. I was given an old RME 84 receiver. A real piece of shit, but for me, I was shitting in tall cotton. I built all kinds of stuff out of old TV sets and anything else I scrounged in the alley. It was fun. I had a long wire antenna that went out the window to a wooden power pole out back. I have no idea what length it was, and it really didn't matter. That was the best I could do. With only a hand full of watts out, and no tuner, I talked all over the place and had a lot of fun doing it. But here is the deal.......I didn't have the internet, computers, satellite TV, video games, cell phones, or any of the modern day contrivances that most kids are spoiled by. Now I do realize that trying to build anything out of an old flat panel TV these days is pretty far fetched. But it seems that all, well most, the hams crying about antennas and HOAs, already have some kind of radio equipment, and either need to put up something that will radiate some RF, or STFU.

My advice to kids and anyone crabbing about HOAs and antennas, go experiment and have fun with the hobby. You might even just learn something in the process.

[kb2vxa]

Oh what the hell...
If K2ZFD can beat the HOA Nazis with a home brew temporary vertical with a coil for each band anyone can. Well, maybe not the "hams" who buy dipoles in plastic bags, all they can do is bitch bitch bitch.

[KC2UGV]

Hell, Cor's 160M vertical can probably be made "stealthy" without too much work. And, I don't even think his antenna was a compromise.

[KC2UGV]

Oh what the hell...
If K2ZFD can beat the HOA Nazis with a home brew temporary vertical with a coil for each band anyone can. Well, maybe not the "hams" who buy dipoles in plastic bags, all they can do is bitch bitch bitch.

Hey now! Nothing wrong with buying a dipole in a bag. Often, their construction is better than mine :)

[W3WN]

Oh what the hell...
If K2ZFD can beat the HOA Nazis with a home brew temporary vertical with a coil for each band anyone can. Well, maybe not the "hams" who buy dipoles in plastic bags, all they can do is bitch bitch bitch.
Three words:

Flag
Pole
Vertical

[KG4CGC]

My spool of 12#, all 500' of it, was shrink wrapped in plastic. Does that count?
The window line came off a larger spool. The coax the same. A balun came in a bag.

[kb2vxa]

Hah, stink wrap doesn't count, nor does a balun in a bag, so you pass the Real Ham Test. Now for bonus points; what's the formula (in feet) for calculating a half wave in free space, for calculating the length of a half wave dipole, and why is it shorter when insulated wire is used?

Just one thing, window line being plastic dielectric twin-lead suffers a large loss when wet and worse when coated with ice. I was listening to 3885 when the AM Gangstas were discussing the results of their tests with a 100ft standard length, baluns and watt-meters on each end and terminated with a dummy load. The loss when wet wasn't TOO bad, but when ice coated it was more than just significant, it was TREMENDOUS. Repeated tests gave the same result +/- a few dB so science rules. The same test was repeated several times with open wire ladder line, dry, wet, or ice coated made almost imperceptible difference.

I just thought you guys would like to know that for the next time you're wondering why weather conditions affect "propagation", it just might be your transmission line.

[K7SGJ]

My spool of 12#, all 500' of it, was shrink wrapped in plastic. Does that count?
The window line came off a larger spool. The coax the same. A balun came in a bag.

Baluns don't come, they arrive.

[NQ6U]

Hah, stink wrap doesn't count, nor does a balun in a bag, so you pass the Real Ham Test.

I disagree. A real ham winds his own baluns.

[K7SGJ]

I disagree. A real ham winds his own baluns.

I wind mine while walking uphill, both ways, barefoot, in the snow.

[PA5COR]

You forgot with hurricane winds blowing....

I wind mine while walking uphill, both ways, barefoot, in the snow.

[K7SGJ]

You forgot with hurricane winds blowing....

We don't get those in the desert, but I'm always up for a good blow.

[KG4CGC]

I disagree. A real ham winds his own baluns.

That's fine it's just that everyone at the hamfest is trying to sell you the wrong fee right donuts.

[kb2vxa]

"Baluns don't come, they arrive."
Marty Balun does, whenever Grease Slick hears the balun mating call. You know, single ended on one side, push-pull on the other, that's what made the Jefferson Airplane fly.

[kb2crk]

Who needs a Balun????? Oh wait mine is built in my tuner.....

I live in a subdivision that has some cc&r's but the developer went bankrupt before an HOA was set up. I chose this house over others because there were no restrictions on antennas. You're not supposed to have a chain link fence visible from the road (I do) but about half the houses do. Many people do not understand covenants, HOAs or the difference between the two. This is not exclusive to hams.

I keep bringing up the subject of a 200' tower but my better half wont have any of that. I figure I can get her to compromise to a 50 footer...lol

[N7YA]

Im flying to Maine in the fall to scout out land. We want at least 2 acres. The resale value on our current house has jumped about $80k in 3 years. The kicker is that Devie wants me to have my own radio room/studio...oh hell yeah! She gets free reign in the kitchen department, no problem here, shes a much better cook than i am. The ground outside will be for our crops and chickens, the sky above will be for wires.

We signed the paperwork to live in an HOA community, and it appears that it was a good idea after all. The thing we have a problem with is more emotional than practical. I dont like their fucking attitude and lack of knowledge. They simply have no idea what they are talking about.

Classic retired middle management, class 4 sociopaths. Nothing more. On our last day in this complex, i will drop by the HOA presidents house and present him with a package of Depends and a blueprint of the property showing that there were never any plants where they ordered us to plant them, saying we neglected to replace ones we removed....WE removed? Our own plants? We put two Rosemary plants in ($4 each) and called it a day. They have left us alone since we took an assload of pictures and a snarky letter back to them, refusing to pay any fines. They dropped it. Fine. Swords will be sheathed.

We knew what we were getting into. The neighborhood is clean and resales are good so i see the point. We just dont need the old crusters walking around like they are Nazi officers or something, thinking we need to fear them. What a weird thing to powertrip about. :dunno: We wont be doing the HOA thing again as we will have enough land between us and any neighbor. Nobody moves to Maine! We must be nuts! Its a place you go if you are an old hippy who grows your own food, likes Celtic culture and a Slooooooooow pace of life. Only 3 Walmarts in the state. Winter storms and mosquitoes in the summer season. Hurricane remnants and high property taxes....all fine by us.

[n2ize]

You know, I still cannot wrap my head around all this.

If a person chooses to live in an area governed by an HOA, they will have to conform to the CC&Rs. Period. If they want to play radio, and want a beam antenna perched upon a 60 foot tower, DON'T FUCKING MOVE THERE. It is just that simple. I really believe that if an HOA came up to every single ham that lives in one, and said, knock yourself out, put up an antenna, the majority probably wouldn't.

We are hams. We are cheap. We should be inventive and creative. In the case of your little friend, he could have run some coax out his bedroom window, discretely of course, and run it to the bottom of the roof soffit. Then simply connect it to an 80 meter dipole that is made up of some #18 wire that is stapled in each direction around the house under the eves, and out of sight. I have done this. It will tune most of the ham bands with an inexpensive or homebrew tuner. Feed it through a low pass filter if necessary. Easy, cheap, effective. As good as a vertical, beam, or any other great antenna? Hell no. It's called a compromise antenna. You want, or are forced, to live in an HOA? Then that is the COMPROMISE. Or, there is the hidden antenna in the fake flagpole, too. But a lot of the people would rather bitch than experiment. I don't get it.

When I first started in radio, uphill in the snow both ways, I was only 13 and we had no money. I was given an old RME 84 receiver. A real piece of shit, but for me, I was shitting in tall cotton. I built all kinds of stuff out of old TV sets and anything else I scrounged in the alley. It was fun. I had a long wire antenna that went out the window to a wooden power pole out back. I have no idea what length it was, and it really didn't matter. That was the best I could do. With only a hand full of watts out, and no tuner, I talked all over the place and had a lot of fun doing it. But here is the deal.......I didn't have the internet, computers, satellite TV, video games, cell phones, or any of the modern day contrivances that most kids are spoiled by. Now I do realize that trying to build anything out of an old flat panel TV these days is pretty far fetched. But it seems that all, well most, the hams crying about antennas and HOAs, already have some kind of radio equipment, and either need to put up something that will radiate some RF, or STFU.

My advice to kids and anyone crabbing about HOAs and antennas, go experiment and have fun with the hobby. You might even just learn something in the process.

Oh I agree 100%. It's just that some people give up too easily. If I lived in one I wouldn't let it stop me. Fortunately living here in NYS HOA's are rarely a problem as there are plenty of non-HOA properties available from within NYC all the way through upstate New York. Even living in the affluent Westchester suburbs I never ran into a problem with putting up antennas I suppose there are some condos where there may be restrictions but most private homes generally nobody is going to bother you. You might have to seek a variance if you are going to construct a large tower. But if you are going to put wires in trees or verticals on rooftops, etc. I know of nobody who ever had a problem. And when you head further upstate the rural factor increases rapidly. You can buy a home further upstate on anywhere from 1/2 acre to several acres and basically put up whatever you want. My brothers place has just under an acre and plenty of room to fly my rc models. If he were a ham he could put up some awesome antennas, no questions asked.

But, if ever I do get stuck in an HOA somewhere I will find a way to get on HF... 75 and 160 included. I don't give up and I'll find a way to make it work.

[n2ize]

weird thing to powertrip about. :dunno: We wont be doing the HOA thing again as we will have enough land between us and any neighbor. Nobody moves to Maine! We must be nuts! Its a place you go if you are an old hippy who grows your own food, likes Celtic culture and a Slooooooooow pace of life. Only 3 Walmarts in the state. Winter storms and mosquitoes in the summer season. Hurricane remnants and high property taxes....all fine by us.

Maine is nice. Also the remote Adirondack region in NY is fantastic as well. For me winter storms and cold weather is fine. I prefer it to blazing heat and high humidity. I am planning on moving up to the Yukon after I retire, perhaps somewhere in the vicinity of Whitehorse or Dawson. In many ways its like Maine except a lot more winter, long days in summer and extremely short "days" in winter. And frequent aurora displays. I'd like to learn to fly and get my license as it can come in handy up there... cities and towns tend to be quite far apart and separated by lots of mountains and extremely rugged terrain. Easier to pass over it than ride through it.. although in some areas flying over it is a challenge as well :). At some point I am going to need to spend a full winter up there to see how I can deal with it. I think I'll do fine but its always good to take a trial run before committing yourself to staying there permanently.

In any event I think you'll like Maine Good luck finding a place there.

[N7YA]

Maine is nice. Also the remote Adirondack region in NY is fantastic as well. For me winter storms and cold weather is fine. I prefer it to blazing heat and high humidity. I am planning on moving up to the Yukon after I retire, perhaps somewhere in the vicinity of Whitehorse or Dawson. In many ways its like Maine except a lot more winter, long days in summer and extremely short "days" in winter. And frequent aurora displays. I'd like to learn to fly and get my license as it can come in handy up there... cities and towns tend to be quite far apart and separated by lots of mountains and extremely rugged terrain. Easier to pass over it than ride through it.. although in some areas flying over it is a challenge as well :). At some point I am going to need to spend a full winter up there to see how I can deal with it. I think I'll do fine but its always good to take a trial run before committing yourself to staying there permanently.

In any event I think you'll like Maine Good luck finding a place there.

Thats the quandry with it, once we commit, we are there for good! With a 30 year fixed and our own land, it would be best to set ourselves up properly the first time around by buying or building a house thats set to grow older in. Smartly designed, ya know? We are definately more adept at cold, wind and rain than heat and assholes by far! I grew up in that kind of weather and LOVE it. So does Devie...harsh weather and lots of nature are perfect for us.

If you live in the Yukon, a plane is a good idea. I lived in Alaska growing up, it was basically the family car for many folks up there. As long as you can pass the vision, health and numerous tests.

Our frame of mind is that we are retiring from Las Vegas, but we are just getting started living once we leave. This place is getting worse, now everyone around us is talking about how bad its become. Vegas is changing by the year for the worse. Time to bail.


But you've all heard this song and dance from me too many times already.

[VE7DCW]

Thats the quandry with it, once we commit, we are there for good! With a 30 year fixed and our own land, it would be best to set ourselves up properly the first time around by buying or building a house thats set to grow older in. Smartly designed, ya know? We are definately more adept at cold, wind and rain than heat and assholes by far! I grew up in that kind of weather and LOVE it. So does Devie...harsh weather and lots of nature are perfect for us.

If you live in the Yukon, a plane is a good idea. I lived in Alaska growing up, it was basically the family car for many folks up there. As long as you can pass the vision, health and numerous tests.

Our frame of mind is that we are retiring from Las Vegas, but we are just getting started living once we leave. This place is getting worse, now everyone around us is talking about how bad its become. Vegas is changing by the year for the worse. Time to bail.


But you've all heard this song and dance from me too many times already.

This sounds terrific Adam...... but i've never been to Las Vegas and basically get my info on the place by what I see on T.V. or read about it...... a great place to visit maybe,but wouldn't want to live there...... been in the state of Nevada 3 times and only went as far as Reno...... but one day would like to see what should stay in Vegas :mrgreen:

[N7YA]

The opulent days of Las Vegas are behind it. Its turned into a cut rate competition. Everything has taken a hit. Its dirty, rude, dangerous and disconnected.

I started the year with a trip to Manhattan, loved it...the folks there werent rude at all despite the alleged reputation they have for it. NYC had its graffiti, smells and fast pace, but they had their vibe. I have left Vegas on vacation and work many times, you figure it would be a nice break that i simply needed, but it never gets better upon returning. Ive been here a long time, ive seen it change into an embarrassment.

Im definately the wrong guy to get a good opinion of this place from. :lol:

[K7SGJ]

Vegas used to be a lot of fun back in the 60s and 70s, before they started blowing up all the casino/hotels trying to out do each other, building what has now become Disneyland with gaming. If I never go back there again, it wouldn't bother me. In the 80s and 90s, the only draw for us was taking the boat to Lake Mead in the summer, but now, I'm afraid it would bottom out.

[NQ6U]

It's possible to say that the RICO statutes are indirectly responsible for Las Vegas's decline. Weird thing, but the town was more fun when it was still mobbed up.

That said, we should still hold an Island of Misfit Hams convention there before Adam moves out. Flights and hotel rooms are dirt cheap compared to anywhere else in the US.

[W5BRM]

I was there for 4 days last week. Jun 1-4. Truck broke down and it took 4 days to fix it. I saw nothing there that even remotely interested me. Played a few pennie slots and thats IT. $3...lol. I can vouch that it pretty much sucks...

[KØWVM]

No. Primarily FB, where the real stupid lives.

I am guessing this is on the Ham Radio type groups? Yeeeeah... I have unjoined a couple already and if the VHF - UHF group starts going full retard on a routine basis as the others have, I will unjoin their group too.

[KG4CGC]

Im flying to Maine in the fall to scout out land. We want at least 2 acres. The resale value on our current house has jumped about $80k in 3 years. The kicker is that Devie wants me to have my own radio room/studio...oh hell yeah! She gets free reign in the kitchen department, no problem here, shes a much better cook than i am. The ground outside will be for our crops and chickens, the sky above will be for wires.

We signed the paperwork to live in an HOA community, and it appears that it was a good idea after all. The thing we have a problem with is more emotional than practical. I dont like their fucking attitude and lack of knowledge. They simply have no idea what they are talking about.

Classic retired middle management, class 4 sociopaths. Nothing more. On our last day in this complex, i will drop by the HOA presidents house and present him with a package of Depends and a blueprint of the property showing that there were never any plants where they ordered us to plant them, saying we neglected to replace ones we removed....WE removed? Our own plants? We put two Rosemary plants in ($4 each) and called it a day. They have left us alone since we took an assload of pictures and a snarky letter back to them, refusing to pay any fines. They dropped it. Fine. Swords will be sheathed.

We knew what we were getting into. The neighborhood is clean and resales are good so i see the point. We just dont need the old crusters walking around like they are Nazi officers or something, thinking we need to fear them. What a weird thing to powertrip about. :dunno: We wont be doing the HOA thing again as we will have enough land between us and any neighbor. Nobody moves to Maine! We must be nuts! Its a place you go if you are an old hippy who grows your own food, likes Celtic culture and a Slooooooooow pace of life. Only 3 Walmarts in the state. Winter storms and mosquitoes in the summer season. Hurricane remnants and high property taxes....all fine by us.
More power to ya, bro. More peace and happiness. I admire you're plan.

[N7YA]

Vegas used to be a lot of fun back in the 60s and 70s, before they started blowing up all the casino/hotels trying to out do each other, building what has now become Disneyland with gaming. If I never go back there again, it wouldn't bother me. In the 80s and 90s, the only draw for us was taking the boat to Lake Mead in the summer, but now, I'm afraid it would bottom out.

Yep, thats a very accurate description of whats happening here. As far as the lake goes, its only been there for 80 years, its lost nearly 40 feet of waterline to subletting to neighboring states and wasted use by casino water features (ahem...Bellagio...Mirage...), yet, god forbid you run your sprinkler in the day...hefty fines. The lake is so mismanaged and filled with sewage and filth that the one man who was in charge of the lake for 30 years, and care very much for it and fought for it, just up and quit and said 'fuck you guys, im heading back to the clean lakes of Minnesota'. The "water" in Lake Mead these days smells like a cesspool and would likely strip the enamel off the hull of your boat.

Truly...heed my warning. Im not making this shit up!

[N7YA]

It's possible to say that the RICO statutes are indirectly responsible for Las Vegas's decline. Weird thing, but the town was more fun when it was still mobbed up.

That said, we should still hold an Island of Misfit Hams convention there before Adam moves out. Flights and hotel rooms are dirt cheap compared to anywhere else in the US.


This place was definately better when the mob ran it. It was still dirty, but in a swaggery, boozey sort of way...it once had a grimy vibe about it. Now its a failed experiment in Disneylandism. They tore down all the cool, old places and put up these giant dicks everywhere. Then they started going after the workers unions and shitting all over the employees in all areas of the valley. Healthcare is among the worst in the nation. UMC was one of 24 hospitals nationally that got an F rating. My singers father went into Spring Valley hospital for a simple surgery, the doctors had no idea what to do and nobody communicated...i just went to his funeral. That simply didnt need to happen. They killed the man! It happens a LOT here.

The education system in Clark County is a complete disaster. It creates gangstas, criminals and whores. My son graduates on tuesday and i couldnt be happier. Now he needs to survive this fuckhole of a city. We really, really cant take any more of this stniky anus of a town. I know, i really just KNOW inside that once we get settled into a less stressful and happier enviroment, with regular people doing regular things, clean air and water. Food grown locally and a well educated people...our trifecta of health, mind, body and spirit will start to heal almost immediately! I cant wait to see what kind of people we will blossom into. We are really needing this change. Its like an abusive nightmare of a relationship coming to an end. Bright days ahead! :-D


As for the IOMH convo, if you can make it in the next year or two, because thats ALL we are giving this place, then i will show up. But just know, as far as cheap rooms and food, you will get what you pay for...and it aint pretty! If its after we leave, im sorry, i will NOT be in attendance. I see no reason to step foot back in Las Vegas again. :snooty:


I also cant wait to enjoy where i live and not have to lament it every second and dump on anyone who will listen. Sorry about that.

[N7YA]

I was there for 4 days last week. Jun 1-4. Truck broke down and it took 4 days to fix it. I saw nothing there that even remotely interested me. Played a few pennie slots and thats IT. $3...lol. I can vouch that it pretty much sucks...


Thank you. Smart move....and thats barely the tip of the iceberg.

[N7YA]

More power to ya, bro. More peace and happiness. I admire you're plan.


Thanks, Charles! Oh man...i cant tell you how happy the thought alone makes us. :)


Ok, i need to back right out of hogging this bandwidth.

[kb2vxa]

"Weird thing, but the town was more fun when it was still mobbed up."
Nothing weird about what I've experienced for myself over the years. Many cities where I used to live in the northern part of the state were like that and very nice places to live with decent folk all around. The ghetto of Newark's Central Ward expanded outward engulfing the city like an amoeba feeding, it continued until Essex, most of Union, and a good chunk of Hudson County have become cesspools of violent crime.

"That said, we should still hold an Island of Misfit Hams convention there before Adam moves out."
Aren't there enough misfits in that blot on the landscape already? When he moves out there will not be one less but ten more. That's right, just another situation here in the late, once great land of America where when one leaves there are ten lined up to take that person's place. Just let him leave quietly without fanfare, if you want to attract more misfits than you can count, hire a skywriter and put it in 100ft high letters MISFITS AND NE'ER DO WELLS COME ONE COME ALL a lot cheaper than what a convention costs.

Las Vegas: The Abundant; I'll leave it to your imagination what abounds there.

[NQ6U]

Las Vegas: The Abundant; I'll leave it to your imagination what abounds there.

The Abundant? If you're trying to translate the name, you've got it wrong. In Spanish, vega means "fertile valley".

[W7XF]

<snip>In Spanish, vega means "fertile valley".<snip>

I thought Vega meant piece o'shit 1970s Shov-rolet car! Who Gnu?

[KJ3N]

I thought Vega meant piece o'shit 1970s Shov-rolet car! Who Gnu?

Could have been worse. Could have been a Pinto, which is Fordish for Big Boom!

[N7YA]

Or the "Thing"...which was French for...'whatever, it was cheap'.

12423

[K7SGJ]

Or Yugo, which means stationary.

[W3WN]

< snip >
The ghetto of Newark's Central Ward expanded outward engulfing the city like an amoeba feeding, it continued until Essex, most of Union, and a good chunk of Hudson County have become cesspools of violent crime.
< snip >Aw, damn, I am so sorry to hear that.

I haven't been back to Livingston in a long time, but it always seemed like the Orange Mountains acted as a "buffer" between East/Central Essex & West Essex.

[W7XF]

Could have been worse. Could have been a Pinto, which is Fordish for Big Boom!

But, at least, Pinto's 50,000 mile service only entailed changing the timing belt. Vega's needed at best, a new engine, at worst, a tow to the scrap yard.

[kb2vxa]

There was no buffer as of the last time I was there in 1999, Livingston Municipal Court appearing as a character witness for a friend there for a traffic violation. While we waited our turn there was a steady stream of shoplifting cases at the mall. Each and every one had taken the bus from... you guessed it... Newark. My friend's case turned out well and I discovered something that made it even better. His lawyer was one of his friends who came out of retirement to take the case pro bono.

I just can't let this go without the story. My friend being African with one of those names that translates a bit oddly had the courtroom giggling as the proceedings began.
Judge: Please state your name for the record.
Defendant: I am Innocent.
Judge: I didn't ask for your plea, now please state your name.
Defendant: I am Innocent.
You can see where this is going so I'll shorten it a bit. I stood and politely asked to make a short statement. I then explained "That is his name your honor, his name is Innocent." That settled, on with the shoOOOw!

[n2ize]

This place was definately better when the mob ran it. It was still dirty, but in a swaggery, boozey sort of way...it once had a grimy vibe about it. Now its a failed experiment in Disneylandism. They tore down all the cool, old places and put up these giant dicks everywhere. Then they started going after the workers unions and shitting all over the employees in all areas of the valley. Healthcare is among the worst in the nation. UMC was one of 24 hospitals nationally that got an F rating.

At least in the 1950's and early 60's you could look out your window and watch the atomic blasts going off at the Nevada test range.

[K7SGJ]

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