Why do older adults assume kids are stupid today?

[KC2UGV]

I chimed in on another forum in regards to an older adult claiming kids are stupid (More or less) today, and don't know squat about squat (Particularly, in the science realm).

Why do adults, especially older adults, assume kids are getting a dumbed down education today?

I had to explain, my son in 8th grade is currently covering vector math, a subject we just started on in my College Math II class. The other son, in the 6th grade, is learning the structure and functions of the entire cardio-pulmonary system. They cover the EM spectrum in 3rd and 4th grade these days, whereas that was a high school level subject when most of the adults were in school (If not first year college).

I mean, is it because kids don't learn a slide rule, and a focus in math classes these days isn't rote 2x4, 2x5, 2x6, 2x7; and instead focused on mathematical concepts like imaginary numbers, rationalization of expressions (Calculator welcomed on test, BTW)? Or, is it just a "Get off mah lawn! We didn't do it that way back then!" kinda thing?

Personally, I'm amazed at how advanced the classes in grade school are these days...

[K7SGJ]

Maybe they are just jealous, and resent having to ask someone younger to answer a question for them.

Personally, I'm older, and wish I had the kind of access to information that the kids of today have. I bet these old bastids don't harbor the same attitude about their doctors. I know mine looks like Doogie Houser, and he is really sharp. Most all the old doctors are probably pushing up daisies or are in homes because they can't even remember how to take someone's temp.

[wa6mhz]

we had to use the LIBRARY and the Encyclopedia Britttanica back then. Today Kids get all their answers and education off of the internet!

[KC2UGV]

we had to use the LIBRARY and the Encyclopedia Britttanica back then. Today Kids get all their answers and education off of the internet!

What's the difference other than one took longer to get info from?

[W3WN]

< snip >
Why do adults, especially older adults, assume kids are getting a dumbed down education today?
< snip >Nothing new. Some older adults have always assumed that. I heard it when I was a kid.

And in some cases, in some school districts, some kids are getting a dumbed down education. But not all kids, and not in all districts.

...when I changed High Schools between 10th & 11th grades (family moved), I was astounded by how... easy my new school was. Suffice to say that I thought then, and I think now, that they didn't push the kids very hard in that district. Now, maybe it was a little more maturity from me at the time, but my younger brother went through the same thing. I went from a middling-B student to an A, and he went from a barely-C student to a high-B/low-A.

[K7SGJ]

What's the difference other than one took longer to get info from?


Actually, one difference is the intertube gets updated and/or revised a whole lot faster. Plus, as we all know, if it's on the internet, it must be true and accurate.

[KC2UGV]

Actually, one difference is the intertube gets updated and/or revised a whole lot faster. Plus, as we all know, if it's on the internet, it must be true and accurate.

It's just as accurate as if it were in a library...

[KC2KFC]

It's just as accurate as if it were in a library...
The ability to edit in real time, as on the internet, would make the internet information more up to date than that found in a book in a library. But, if the editor of that information did not have somebody else proofing the information, it might not be as accurate. Could go either way which is why it is important to use more than one source on the internet, in my opinion.

[N2NH]

I can tell you that the math is very different and a lot harder now than it was when I was in college. Took a summer math course and I can tell you there was no learning curve. It didn't seem that you were there to learn but to already know. I didn't get the point of taking the course, since if I already knew, I didn't need to take it, but there are those curriculum requirements that state you need to take Math 202, after taking Math 201 which has the prerequisite of Math 143 and Math 123. All those have prerequisites too. The kids in the class knew their stuff and if you haven't grown up with a calculator in your hand, you aren't learning at that point.

Nope. Kudos to the kids in college today. Might not have the common sense of a nail, but they are very smart.

[KG4CGC]

I'll pose a hypothetical.
Adults don't like the way the younger generation has fun, the music they listen to, wardrobe.
Assumptions about intelligence stem from there.

[N2NH]

I'll pose a hypothetical.
Adults don't like the way the younger generation has fun, the music they listen to, wardrobe.
Assumptions about intelligence stem from there.

I guess that's why I don't have a problem then. Listen to new rock, new jazz and wish Adele would finish her new CD already.

[NQ6U]

I'll pose a hypothetical.
Adults don't like the way the younger generation has fun, the music they listen to, wardrobe.
Assumptions about intelligence stem from there.

Plus, kids these days don't have to walk six miles through the snow (uphill both ways, of course) to get to school.

Seriously, there's no truth to the claim that today's kids are stupid. My grandson is in the seventh grade and is already doing algebra, something I didn't get to until my first year in high school. It's quite a challenge to pull all that stuff out of my memory banks when he asks for help with his homework.

[KB3LAZ]

I see about 100 students on a daily basis, of all ages, and it never ceases to amzes me what people don't know. I figure it has to do not only with district but the people themselves. One of my teachers explained teaching to me as throwing mud against a wall, some sticks and the rest slides to the floor . Rinse and repeat and eventually a majority of it will stick. However, mud just doesn't stick to some walls.

I don't think we have any more stupid people now than we used to but rather we notice when people don't know something that we think is or should be common knowledge. That being said, I have never really had to listen to the speeches about us young ones not knowing our ass from our elbow. Well, aside from on radio forums. :wall:

[W5BRM]

My opinion is that older folk are mistaking stupidity for lack of wisdom. Young folk are smart but sometimes not wise. Its not enough to know right from wrong unless you know WHY. That is the issue imho

[n2ize]

I chimed in on another forum in regards to an older adult claiming kids are stupid (More or less) today, and don't know squat about squat (Particularly, in the science realm).

Why do adults, especially older adults, assume kids are getting a dumbed down education today?

I had to explain, my son in 8th grade is currently covering vector math, a subject we just started on in my College Math II class. The other son, in the 6th grade, is learning the structure and functions of the entire cardio-pulmonary system. They cover the EM spectrum in 3rd and 4th grade these days, whereas that was a high school level subject when most of the adults were in school (If not first year college).

I mean, is it because kids don't learn a slide rule, and a focus in math classes these days isn't rote 2x4, 2x5, 2x6, 2x7; and instead focused on mathematical concepts like imaginary numbers, rationalization of expressions (Calculator welcomed on test, BTW)? Or, is it just a "Get off mah lawn! We didn't do it that way back then!" kinda thing?

Personally, I'm amazed at how advanced the classes in grade school are these days...

Because a lot of older people don't understand the idea of teaching different ways you conceptualize a problem. I saw one thread on Facebook a while ago that criticized a grade school math test because the question required the student to perform a simple addition, something like 2+3-7+9 via a number line. One person was very angry and said, why not just tech that 2+3-7+9 = 7 the old fashioned way. I chimed in and tried to explain that the idea of the question was to teach young students that many arithmetical operations can also be conceptualized geometrically as in traversing along one dimension and later on it will be much easier for the student to grasp these operations geometrically in 2 dimensions, 3-dimensions, and multi-dimensions. Of course my comments were met with scorn from the ignorant. The fact is that there are a lot of very bright young people in our schools today that have a much better grasp on these subjects than their parents did when they were the same age.

[n2ize]

I can tell you that the math is very different and a lot harder now than it was when I was in college. Took a summer math course and I can tell you there was no learning curve. It didn't seem that you were there to learn but to already know. I didn't get the point of taking the course, since if I already knew, I didn't need to take it, but there are those curriculum requirements that state you need to take Math 202, after taking Math 201 which has the prerequisite of Math 143 and Math 123. All those have prerequisites too. The kids in the class knew their stuff and if you haven't grown up with a calculator in your hand, you aren't learning at that point.

Nope. Kudos to the kids in college today. Might not have the common sense of a nail, but they are very smart.

Actually most of the more advanced college level math courses don't require a calculator. I rarely had any need for a calculator when I was studying for my masters degree in mathematics. Most of the courses are theoretical theorem/proof oriented and are about understanding conceptualizations and involve constructing logical arguments as opposed to performing intensive numerical calculations.

Most of the recent undergraduate level MIT courses that I audited are no harder than when I was taking them decades ago. Virtually all of the fundamental theorems are the same. In fact I found some of them easier then when I was taking them as many of the teachers have embellished new approaches to clarify some of the more difficult ideas making it easier for students to grasp them.

Then again it depends on the school, the teacher, etc. Since I don;t know what you mean by math 123, 143, 201, 202 I have no way of knowing what topics you covered. Different schools have different designations for their course numbers.

[K7SGJ]

Actually most of the more advanced college level math courses don't require a calculator. I rarely had any need for a calculator when I was studying for my masters degree in mathematics. Most of the courses are theoretical theorem/proof oriented and are about understanding conceptualizations as opposed to being calculation intensive.

How long ago did you get your masters?

[n2ize]

How long ago did you get your masters?

mid-late 1980's.A few courses were computer intensive but rarely did I require a calculator. Many courses were very theory oriented so ost often I needed a pencil and paper and time to rack my brain to come up with a valid argument. The Engineering boys were using calculators much more than I.

[NQ6U]

How long ago did you get your masters?

John can't recall the exact date but he does remember that the stone beads on his abacus made the thing really heavy.

[NA4BH]

And if he tilted it he had to start over.

[KG4CGC]

I don't cipher numbers real good but I can figure out how they should be ciphered. You know, for simple stuff but I still don't cipher number too good.
I think a big part of my brain got cipher out when they put me under to have my tonsils removed when I was 6. How many apples did I have left?

[NA4BH]

Two, and they swing when you walk.


Did I win a prize?

[KG4CGC]

Two, and they swing when you walk.


Did I win a prize?

Uh, oh. Now you asked for it.
LOL! OH AND BOY DID YOU ASK FOR IT!!!!!

[NA4BH]

Uh, oh. Now you asked for it.
LOL! OH AND BOY DID YOU ASK FOR IT!!!!!

Don't send any more.......... Well you know.

[KG4CGC]

Don't send any more.......... Well you know.

Too late.

[NA4BH]

I can make it rain when needed. Just sayin'

[n2ize]

John can't recall the exact date but he does remember that the stone beads on his abacus made the thing really heavy.

It's just that in a lot of the courses a calculator won't be of any help because you aren't crunching numbers. Most of the time you are using symbols that could stand for a variety of different things.

[kb2vxa]

Yeah, like what the hell is this thing?

[KG4CGC]

Yeah, like what the hell is this thing?

Left is the cockring.
Right is The Artist Formerly Known As His Cockring.

[n2ize]

Left is the cockring.
Right is The Artist Formerly Known As His Cockring.

Isn't he the artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as the artist formally known as...

[N2NH]

Actually most of the more advanced college level math courses don't require a calculator. I rarely had any need for a calculator when I was studying for my masters degree in mathematics. Most of the courses are theoretical theorem/proof oriented and are about understanding conceptualizations and involve constructing logical arguments as opposed to performing intensive numerical calculations.

Most of the recent undergraduate level MIT courses that I audited are no harder than when I was taking them decades ago. Virtually all of the fundamental theorems are the same. In fact I found some of them easier then when I was taking them as many of the teachers have embellished new approaches to clarify some of the more difficult ideas making it easier for students to grasp them.

Then again it depends on the school, the teacher, etc. Since I don;t know what you mean by math 123, 143, 201, 202 I have no way of knowing what topics you covered. Different schools have different designations for their course numbers.

Then I guess the kids (and I) really are that stupid. Every person in the class had a calculator and it was recommended by the professor. We got an average of 175 to 185 problems per day, 4 classes a week and a quiz nearly every day. Derivatives were part of it. Factorials too. Nothing like what you see in High School (and nothing like I'd seen in over 4 decades either). And no, it wasn't Engineering, but it was required to get the degree as opposed to the certificate. I did use the calculator a lot in Engineering. It was actually easier as it was math I was used to.

I think the professor used an algorithm to lace up her girdle in the morning. :snicker:

[KC2UGV]

Then I guess the kids (and I) really are that stupid. Every person in the class had a calculator and it was recommended by the professor. We got an average of 175 to 185 problems per day, 4 classes a week and a quiz nearly every day. Derivatives were part of it. Factorials too. Nothing like what you see in High School (and nothing like I'd seen in over 4 decades either). And no, it wasn't Engineering, but it was required to get the degree as opposed to the certificate. I did use the calculator a lot in Engineering. It was actually easier as it was math I was used to.

I think the professor used an algorithm to lace up her girdle in the morning. :snicker:

I understand what John is saying here. In my trig class (Math 126, aka College Math II), a calculator is of very little use. You can get a few portions of the question faster with a calc, but on the whole, it's just not needed.

Like this question:

What is the co-terminal angle of (2pi)/4

[N2NH]

I understand what John is saying here. In my trig class (Math 126, aka College Math II), a calculator is of very little use. You can get a few portions of the question faster with a calc, but on the whole, it's just not needed.

Like this question:

What is the co-terminal angle of (2pi)/4

Yep. That wouldn't be a problem for me either. These didn't look like that.

Be back in a few hours. Gotta get some sleep. Coming off a 102 fever with what feels like the flu and a bad asthma attack.

But will try to get the textbook to give an idea of one of those 700+ weekly problems we had to solve. I've signed on a Math Board to try and figure out the riddle of polynomial derivatives that must be factored - in fraction form.

[w2amr]

Isn't he the artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as the artist formally known as...
The artist formerly known as successful.

[kb2vxa]

"Coming off a 102 fever with what feels like the flu and a bad asthma attack."

Uh oh, that rings my alarm bell! The notoriously common secondary infection with influenza is pneumonia that can be fatal.

[K0RGR]

The kids are definitely not stupid - in fact, most of them are so smart it scares me. There are some issues there - even the best of them seem to lack a sense of 'pecking order'. They have been trained since preschool to work as a 'team'. There are no 'bosses', just team members, and all the team members have a say in the project. This drives most business people stark, raving mad! They don't want 'partners', they want minions, who will carry out their orders without being seen or heard. This attitude, in turn, drives the young people stark, raving mad. They think the boss doesn't respect them, or worse yet, doesn't like them. They can't understand why they aren't invited to staff meetings from their first day.

Sadly, I see this in my own kids - the pretty daughter, in particular. She just can't understand why she is being treated like a peon. She has been working since she was 15, she's been a manager in a retail store, she's managed a restaurant, she was employed by her college as an event planner in charge of a major public music festival, she has a four year degree and a decent GPA in her field from a major university. She has excelled in everything she's done. But, the only job she could find in HR was an 'administrative assistant' for a recruiting firm. She gets upset because she is not invited to office staff meetings, and is generally treated like a peon. Explanations that administrative assistants are peons don't help at all.

I am trying to help her find another job, in case you know somebody who needs an HR person in Minnesota. She had some serious hearing problems as a toddler, and as a result, she has some speech and writing difficulties, but with very little help, she shines. Her boss has pretty flatly told her that he won't promote her as a result, so I think it's time for her to go someplace else. She is a great manager and planner, but not such a great secretary. I keep telling her she should look outside the narrow HR/recruiter world, because I suspect she's going to find the same issues everywhere.

I really question whether or not schools are training kids for the jobs that are actually out there today. There needs to be some balance between the number of people accepted into college for a particular program, and the actual potential for employment upon completion. We graduate far too many people with 'soft' business degrees, and many fewer with 'hard' technical degrees. I think college takes much too long and is much too expensive.

[KC2UGV]

Yep. That wouldn't be a problem for me either. These didn't look like that.

Be back in a few hours. Gotta get some sleep. Coming off a 102 fever with what feels like the flu and a bad asthma attack.

But will try to get the textbook to give an idea of one of those 700+ weekly problems we had to solve. I've signed on a Math Board to try and figure out the riddle of polynomial derivatives that must be factored - in fraction form.

Ugh, I feel ya dog... I'm battling something fierce right now too, had to leave work early, and sleeping on and off for 4 hour periods.

[n2ize]

Then I guess the kids (and I) really are that stupid. Every person in the class had a calculator and it was recommended by the professor. We got an average of 175 to 185 problems per day, 4 classes a week and a quiz nearly every day. Derivatives were part of it. Factorials too. Nothing like what you see in High School (and nothing like I'd seen in over 4 decades either). And no, it wasn't Engineering, but it was required to get the degree as opposed to the certificate. I did use the calculator a lot in Engineering. It was actually easier as it was math I was used to.

I think the professor used an algorithm to lace up her girdle in the morning. :snicker:

Again, I don't have the vaguest ideal what the courses you took consisted of or where you took them or what level you were at. All I can say, as a person with an M.S. in Mathematics (which required me to take a hell of a lot of math courses at the undergraduate and graduate level) ) is that most of the time a calculator would have been useless as the bulk of the courses were proof oriented. Perhaps the courses you are thinking of were more basic application oriented and involved cranking out approximate answers.

For example, a very basic simple and typical homework problem that I has to confront in Algebra 2 was along the lines of...

Let,.x1,...xi be disjoint cycles with ordering n1,...,ni. Prove x1...xi is the lowest common multiple of n1,...ni

A calculator won't be of any help in proving this. It's all based on concepts and logical argument as opposed to number crunching on a calculator. The bulk of the courses are theoretical and are proof oriented. A calculator is generally useless most of the time.

[n2ize]

Yep. That wouldn't be a problem for me either. These didn't look like that.

Be back in a few hours. Gotta get some sleep. Coming off a 102 fever with what feels like the flu and a bad asthma attack.

But will try to get the textbook to give an idea of one of those 700+ weekly problems we had to solve. I've signed on a Math Board to try and figure out the riddle of polynomial derivatives that must be factored - in fraction form.

Sounds cool. What board did you sign on to ? I'd like to join up and work on some of these problems. i need something other than TV to keep my mind in high gear :).

Sounds like you have the flu. It's been almost epidemic. Everybody in my household got it, including me, and I almost never get the flu. It also put my Mom in the hospital last Friday but fortunately she recovered quickly and they sent her back home and she's doing very well. The house next door to me everyone in that house got it. Abd a friend of mine got it really bad and ended up in the hospital for a few days. For me it was minor congestion, coughing, a headache, joint pains, and a low grade fever that shot up to 102 for a few hours then a rapid recovery.

[W7XF]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=updoMIHMBbU

[N2NH]

Be a bit longer. When I put my head lower than my waist, it still makes me feel like I'm taking a head-dive into the floor. And that's where the textbooks should be. :fever:

Still better than the weekend was tho.

Ah, right the Math site. Math For Ex-Whiz-Kids Who Are Now Lids, LINK HERE. (http://mymathforum.com/)

[KC2UGV]

Sounds cool. What board did you sign on to ? I'd like to join up and work on some of these problems. i need something other than TV to keep my mind in high gear :).

Sounds like you have the flu. It's been almost epidemic. Everybody in my household got it, including me, and I almost never get the flu. It also put my Mom in the hospital last Friday but fortunately she recovered quickly and they sent her back home and she's doing very well. The house next door to me everyone in that house got it. Abd a friend of mine got it really bad and ended up in the hospital for a few days. For me it was minor congestion, coughing, a headache, joint pains, and a low grade fever that shot up to 102 for a few hours then a rapid recovery.

I hope it doesn't sweep my household... I hardly ever get ill. Starting on Monday, I was "eh, not 100%". Tuesday I was,"Ugh... I can pull through this". Wednesday, "Oh crap, I don't think I'll make it through this meeting... But I'll give it a go." Thursday, I was like,"Death is coming for me". My chest felt like it was on fire every time I coughed, everything hurt, even my skin. Whenever I moved, I was thrown into a coughing fit, and was downing Dayquil like I down soda during the day. Went home early after pushing a change into production. Today, back to "Meh, I can pull through this one."

I wouldn't wish my Thursday on anyone, with a tiny few exceptions.

[n2ize]

I hope it doesn't sweep my household... I hardly ever get ill. Starting on Monday, I was "eh, not 100%". Tuesday I was,"Ugh... I can pull through this". Wednesday, "Oh crap, I don't think I'll make it through this meeting... But I'll give it a go." Thursday, I was like,"Death is coming for me". My chest felt like it was on fire every time I coughed, everything hurt, even my skin. Whenever I moved, I was thrown into a coughing fit, and was downing Dayquil like I down soda during the day. Went home early after pushing a change into production. Today, back to "Meh, I can pull through this one."

I wouldn't wish my Thursday on anyone, with a tiny few exceptions.

When my Mom was in the emergency room they gave her Tamiflu and she seemed to recover rapidly after that. They gave her a prescription for Tamiflu to take for a few days afterward but I couldn't get it filled. Every pharmacy I called, including the big pharmacies, was out of stock. Fortunately she didn't need it and recovered fine without it. I generally find that a little codeine or hydrocodone works very well for me if I get flu particularly one with pain and heavy cough. . Unfortunately I didn't have any on hand for this last flu nor did I have the time to go to the doctor for a prescription.

[K7SGJ]

Dexbrompheniramine/ hydrocodone/ phenylephrine with a Percocet chaser.

That is all.

[kb2vxa]

That makes no sense, dexbrompheniramine and phenylephrine are both decongestants so together amounts to an overdose. Same thing with hydrocodone and Percoset which is stronger (oxycodone) and contains acetaminophen. I'm sure glad I don't have a Desert Rat for a doctor! (;->)

[K7SGJ]

That makes no sense, dexbrompheniramine and phenylephrine are both decongestants so together amounts to an overdose. Same thing with hydrocodone and Percoset which is stronger (oxycodone) and contains acetaminophen. I'm sure glad I don't have a Desert Rat for a doctor! (;->)

It stops the cough, and the fever goes away.

[N2NH]

Interestingly, I got the flu shot, and according to the doctors office, the flu season was all but over by the 7th -I got it the 11th from a guy who went to the doctors office who seemed to think everyone else had it. GRRR...

Warren: So far it seems to nearly be gone. I have a fair amount of asthma and bronchitis that has been affected by this and is lingering, but otherwise not so bad. Interesting that you should mention pneumonia. I had the pneumonia shot and still managed to get it last year.

Now as far as kids, they're very smart. Smarter than we give them credit for most times. But when they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they know we think that they're not so smart so it is encouraged somewhat...

[suddenseer]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Now git OFF Mah LAWN!!!!!!

On edit, I hope you are feeling better soon John.

[kb2vxa]

^^^Yeah, that.^^^

"But when they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they know we think that they're not so smart so it is encouraged somewhat."
SOMEWHAT??? Some are raised IN the cookie jar, then they grow up to be... it begins with P...

[N2NH]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Now git OFF Mah LAWN!!!!!!

On edit, I hope you are feeling better soon John.

Thanks. It's taking it's time, but I'm trying to encourage the immune system to work a bit harder.

I found the Math books though and will post as soon as I can figure out how to format the problem.

[N2NH]

1)

6s3t5 - 8s2t4 + 10st2
-2st4

2)

(2m5 -3m4 + m3 - m2 +9m) / (m2)

3)

20a5b5 - 20a3b2 +5a2b + 6) / (a2b)

(Repeat about 50 to 60 times per day, 4 days a week until 150 to 180 of these are solved. Exam 3X a week. No Partial Credit PERIOD.)

Part the Second to follow. Still mulling over how to format those.

[N2NH]

- and yes, I did figure out how to solve using it. I don't think you can simplify, factor and solve 150+ of these without one, but I could be wrong.

http://escdn.nl/images/products/large/cf877193da2112e7bdd995e2708a85b7.jpg

[K7SGJ]

Nice looking remote. Does it do more than just a TV?

[N2NH]

1)

(¼p3 - 1/6p2 + 5) - (-2/3p3 + 1/3p2 -1/5p)

2)

8z4 (3z-2)2 + 12z3 (3z-2)3

3)

(2x + 5)2 - (2x + 5) -12

4)

Q(x) = x4 + 6x3 + 8x2

There's a lot more. This is just a small sampling. Was doing about 5 to 6 hours of these 4 nights a week with literally no learning curve.

I can say that I never had this in High School (and I took advanced Algebra, Calculus and Trigonometry) nor did I ever see this in College. The XYL has two degrees and never saw this either. Mind you, the students in my class who were above 30 all left and said they'd never seen any of this either. Under 25? This was not easy for them, but not greek either.

They're smart.

[KG4CGC]

Kids are pretty smart but what really gets them a backside full of rock salt and rice is that sassmouth. Yeah, that's right. That sassmouth gets'm every time.

[n2ize]

1)

6s3t5 - 8s2t4 + 10st2
-2st4

2)

(2m5 -3m4 + m3 - m2 +9m) / (m2)

3)

20a5b5 - 20a3b2 +5a2b + 6) / (a2b)

(Repeat about 50 to 60 times per day, 4 days a week until 150 to 180 of these are solved. Exam 3X a week. No Partial Credit PERIOD.)

Part the Second to follow. Still mulling over how to format those.

What exactly are they asking you to do with these expressions ? If they are asking you to simplify them or factor them it's pretty easy and straightforward high school algebra. If they are asking you to differentiate or integrate them then it's college level Calculus but still pretty easy once you learn the processes,

[n2ize]

1)

(¼p3 - 1/6p2 + 5) - (-2/3p3 + 1/3p2 -1/5p)

2)

8z4 (3z-2)2 + 12z3 (3z-2)3

3)

(2x + 5)2 - (2x + 5) -12

4)

Q(x) = x4 + 6x3 + 8x2

There's a lot more. This is just a small sampling. Was doing about 5 to 6 hours of these 4 nights a week with literally no learning curve.

I can say that I never had this in High School (and I took advanced Algebra, Calculus and Trigonometry) nor did I ever see this in College. The XYL has two degrees and never saw this either. Mind you, the students in my class who were above 30 all left and said they'd never seen any of this either. Under 25? This was not easy for them, but not greek either.

They're smart.

I went to high school in the early 70's and these types of expressions were routine in 11th year Algebra and Trig . Saw plenty of them. If you doubt me I'll see if I can find one of my old high school texts and photocopy a typical homework problem page. This is essentially considered basic algebra. In most freshman college level math courses you would be expected to have learned this in high school.

As far as them making you do 180 of so problems per night i don't quite get the reasoning behind that. Assigning 20 or 30 such problems should be adequate to determine if the student understands how to manipulate them or not.

[n2ize]

1)

(¼p3 - 1/6p2 + 5) - (-2/3p3 + 1/3p2 -1/5p)

2)

8z4 (3z-2)2 + 12z3 (3z-2)3

3)

(2x + 5)2 - (2x + 5) -12

4)

Q(x) = x4 + 6x3 + 8x2

There's a lot more. This is just a small sampling. Was doing about 5 to 6 hours of these 4 nights a week with literally no learning curve.

I can say that I never had this in High School (and I took advanced Algebra, Calculus and Trigonometry) nor did I ever see this in College. The XYL has two degrees and never saw this either. Mind you, the students in my class who were above 30 all left and said they'd never seen any of this either. Under 25? This was not easy for them, but not greek either.

They're smart.

I went to high school in the early 70's and these types of expressions were routine in 11th year Algebra and Trig . Saw plenty of them in high school. They also appeared on the MYS regents exams. If you doubt me or don;t remember I'll see if I can find one of my old high school texts and photocopy a typical homework problem page. This is essentially considered basic algebra. Generally it is assumed that a college freshman recently graduated from high school would understand how to manipulate these expressions from what he/she learned in high school. My guess is that you've seen this stuff before but may not remember it after many years.

To be fair however, i have seen these types of problems taught in some college courses, primarily in refresher math courses for adults returning to college long after graduating high school. Thus I can see why some of the older students may have had more difficulty with them. Since they have been out of high school for decades and they probably haven;t done this in a long time they probably don't remember it or are rusty in it. On the other hand a younger student is more likely to find it easy because he/she still remembers it from high school.

As far as them making you do 180 of so problems per night i don't quite get the reasoning behind that. That sounds like overkill. Assigning 20 or 30 such problems should be adequate to determine if the student understands how to manipulate them well enough or not.

[N2NH]

I went to high school in the early 70's and these types of expressions were routine in 11th year Algebra and Trig . Saw plenty of them in high school. They also appeared on the MYS regents exams. If you doubt me or don;t remember I'll see if I can find one of my old high school texts and photocopy a typical homework problem page. This is essentially considered basic algebra. Generally it is assumed that a college freshman recently graduated from high school would understand how to manipulate these expressions from what he/she learned in high school. My guess is that you've seen this stuff before but may not remember it after many years.

To be fair however, i have seen these types of problems taught in some college courses, primarily in refresher math courses for adults returning to college long after graduating high school. Thus I can see why some of the older students may have had more difficulty with them. Since they have been out of high school for decades and they probably haven;t done this in a long time they probably don't remember it or are rusty in it. On the other hand a younger student is more likely to find it easy because he/she still remembers it from high school.

As far as them making you do 180 of so problems per night i don't quite get the reasoning behind that. That sounds like overkill. Assigning 20 or 30 such problems should be adequate to determine if the student understands how to manipulate them well enough or not.

Nope. It was a college level course. And I agree. Doing 180 of these a night was overkill, but some teachers believe that quantity matters over quality and she was apparently one of them. There is also a high degree of professors (not so with students) who have an age bias, despite being about the same age you are. Interestingly the whole academia world that is within a college seems to foster people with these unrealistic views, but I have always noticed that. And I am far from the only student to notice it too. Courses in trades have a high degree of older (30+) people who are trying to further themselves in a career that they are in or have some experience with. Regular courses that you need if you are aiming for a degree rather than a certificate have younger students and the professors are often identifying with them rather than more realistically their own age. They have a distinct age bias and feel safe in that Sexual Harassment and Gender/Race Bias is handled by the college and not age bias.

[n2ize]

Nope. It was a college level course. And I agree. Doing 180 of these a night was overkill, but some teachers believe that quantity matters over quality and she was apparently one of them. There is also a high degree of professors (not so with students) who have an age bias, despite being about the same age you are. Interestingly the whole academia world that is within a college seems to foster people with these unrealistic views, but I have always noticed that. And I am far from the only student to notice it too. Courses in trades have a high degree of older (30+) people who are trying to further themselves in a career that they are in or have some experience with. Regular courses that you need if you are aiming for a degree rather than a certificate have younger students and the professors are often identifying with them rather than more realistically their own age. They have a distinct age bias and feel safe in that Sexual Harassment and Gender/Race Bias is handled by the college and not age bias.

Older or returning students are generally looking to advance a career so they generally gravitate towards specific programs that emphasize applications more so than theory. Younger students, like those coming in from high school, are just beginning in a profession and don't yet have the theory under their belts so they gravitate towards more generalized academic programs that deal with theory and some applications. makes sense since at that age the student has yet to have chosen a career so they haven't yet specialized in anything. They are trying to gain as much knowledge as possible so they can fit into a broad range of specializations later on. Some may go on to become for example theoretical physicists and end up applying a lot of the theory they learned while others may find a niche specialty in the industrial world and take specialized courses later on.

I never noticed age bias when i was in college but then I was going during the day and I was pretty close to the typical age range of most people in my classes. Actually i was a little older than most but not by all that much. I did come across some older students, i.e. people in their 30's, 40's, 50's and up. Most of them had trouble with college level math and I used to help some of them along. Most of the time it was an issue in which they forgot a lot of the basic algebra they once learned in high school. It wasn't always easy to bring them back up to speed, some would catch on and remember quick, others used to take a lot of time. I generally recommend that older students who may be decades past high school returning to college who plan to go into programs requiring a lot of math (i.e, such as engineering, computer science, etc.) take a couple of remedial of refresher courses to make sure they have the basic concepts down pat before jumping into college level Calculus, Linear Algebra, Statistics, etc. It's not that they are not smart its just that it's not easy to remain fluent in this type of material if you haven't used or reviewed it in many years thus making it even harder to move onto more advanced material. I get rusty in topics that I don;t use regularly or haven't used for many years. We all do. Most community colleges offer remedial / refresher courses for returning students. I highly recommend them as they can be quite helpful in helping people get back up into high gear and preparing a person tot tackle the more advanced stuff.

And yeah, I agree, most young students are pretty cool and get along well with older students, some of which may be old enough to be their parents.

[N2NH]

And yeah, I agree, most young students are pretty cool and get along well with older students, some of which may be old enough to be their parents.

Or grandparents. It's always interesting when I get rid of the grey. People think I am much younger since I haven't got a wrinkle yet (thankfully).

[n2ize]

Or grandparents. It's always interesting when I get rid of the grey. People think I am much younger since I haven't got a wrinkle yet (thankfully).

Well I have some white hair. It's become more predominant in my middle age but actually I started finding white hairs on my head when i was 18 years old. And yeah, when i was teaching I met some grandma's and grandpa's and they were very nice people. It really takes something for a person to pursue a college degree in the later years. Yet these people were determined and wonderful people who often had a much deeper appreciation for what they were learning than many of the young folk.