Would you live in a buiding built in the 1800s?

[KK4AMI]

First, I read about the gas explosion in New York City caused by a 150 year old ruptured gas line. Now it's a 9 alarm fire in a bunch of Boston Brownstones built in the late 1800s. That fire killed fireman and civilians. When is a building too old to live in safely. Rooms in a building can be remodeled, but it is usually the same sewer system, gas lines, power lines, dried out structural timbers and rotting brickwork. Is it safe to think buildings past a certain age are still habitable? I wouldn't live in any building that was older then I am. :-?

[K7SGJ]

Sure, I wouldn't have a problem living in an old building like that. Obviously, I would inspect all the plumbing, electrical, and gas for condition. I think I would probably want to replace the wiring with new stuff with a ground, and the plumbing I would want to thoroughly checkout visually, at least that which is exposed. The gas lines would be of most concern to me. Normally, gas lines are under very low pressure, just a few psi, but I would want to pressure test them with a pretty high static pressure. I know when I built this place, I had to pressurize the gas lines to 15 psi, and it had to hold it for several days in order to pass inspection. After it passed, I ran it up to 125 psi for a week or so while I was working on other things, and it held just fine.

As far as an older building goes, if it passed the building inspection, and mine as well (which would be tougher) I wouldn't see a problem. However, my biggest concern would be the condition of the surrounding buildings, since most people aren't as demanding as I am, or keep up with preventive maintenance. It doesn't do you much good if your place is in perfect order, and the adjoining building blows up and takes yours with it.

[KG4CGC]

Some one on the Island does.
Let's ask her opinion.

[NQ6U]

People in other countries frequently live in buildings far older than that and seem to do just fine. Ever been to Florence, for instance?

[W3WN]

OK, so let's say, you buy an old, old building for a future home. You have, and spend, the money to bring everything up to modern codes... rewire to modern electrical standards, replace the water & gas pipes, new windows & furnace of course, and so on. So even though the building is old, it's as modern and as safe as the 3 year old over priced thin walled mansion across the street.

Two weeks later, someone digging in the street hits the gas main. And the resulting explosion (amongst other things) levels that thin walled mansion across the street... and your new home.

Was the problem the age of the buildings? The age of the infrastructure? Or the carelessness of the workmen?

... and that's why I wouldn't be worried per se about the age of the building. It's a factor, granted. And whether or not it's been kept up to date, or can be (at an affordable cost), is a factor. But it's neither the main one nor a predominant one.

Just make sure you carry plenty of insurance.

[W7XF]

I grew up in a house built ~1865 in the Bay Area, which means, it held up to 1906, and the main structure held up to Loma Prieta. Yeah, when we moved in, the HVAC had to be modernised (it was coal heat as built, converted to oil)...but with CARB essentially banning coal and diesel heat...had to convert the house to natural gas, and the house was totally rewired (it was ungrounded knob & tube). All of that had to be done prior to us occupying the house. It still stands today, however the sun room addition was removed by the current owner, as that part did not survive Loma Prieta. Redwood construction, 2x6 studs, and those pesky chisel cut nails.

[N2NH]

1800? That's nothing compared to some buildings here. There's some going back as far as the mid 1600s and people live in them with no problems. Not as uncommon as you might think here.


Kingston Stockade District
(added 1975 - Ulster County - #75001231)
Also known as See Also:Senate House;Clinton Avenue Historic District
Area bounded by both sides of Clinton Ave., Main, Green, and Front Sts. , Kingston
(321 acres, 171 buildings)

Historic Significance: Information Potential, Event, Architecture/Engineering
Architect, builder, or engineer: Multiple
Area of Significance: Politics/Government, Historic - Non-Aboriginal, Architecture, Military, Community Planning And Development
Cultural Affiliation: Not Available
Period of Significance: 1900-1924, 1875-1899, 1850-1874, 1825-1849, 1800-1824, 1750-1799, 1700-1749, 1650-1699
Owner: Local , Private
Historic Function: Commerce/Trade, Defense, Domestic
Historic Sub-function: Business, Fortification, Multiple Dwelling, Single Dwelling, Specialty Store
Current Function: Commerce/Trade, Domestic
Current Sub-function: Single Dwelling

LINK here. (http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/NY/Ulster/districts.html)

[PA5COR]

My town has houses or buildings that were build in the early 1400's and still have the full building permit with all new fangled pipes and electricity and outside we do maintain our infrastructure actually quite well.

Accidents do happen, even here, but not by out of date building code utility infrastructure in the houses/buildings.
Regular inspections can take place in any house/building and repairs if need be need to be done within one week, depending on the faults found or in bad cases immediate lock out of the utility that needs improvement till the work is verifyable done.

[KC2UGV]

First, I read about the gas explosion in New York City caused by a 150 year old ruptured gas line. Now it's a 9 alarm fire in a bunch of Boston Brownstones built in the late 1800s. That fire killed fireman and civilians. When is a building too old to live in safely. Rooms in a building can be remodeled, but it is usually the same sewer system, gas lines, power lines, dried out structural timbers and rotting brickwork. Is it safe to think buildings past a certain age are still habitable? I wouldn't live in any building that was older then I am. :-?

Yes, and I do. Late 1800's, but still 1800's.

As long as it's been maintained, there's no issue.

[KK4AMI]

I wasn't really referring to single family dwellings but bigger buildings like multiple occupancy apartment buildings. Old stacked stone foundations, 150 year old pipes leading sewage out of the building and gas in. Do the cities and boroughs replace all that stuff? How? They would have to tear up city streets. Then to boot, the wood structure is so dried out, you have to be worried about every smoker and arsonist living below you and above. I live in a one story ranch that could start on fire, but I can get out any window and not do more then stub my toe. Can't imagine being 5 stories up. I used a Ditch Witch to dig up my yard and fix my septic pipes.

[N2CHX]

First, I read about the gas explosion in New York City caused by a 150 year old ruptured gas line. Now it's a 9 alarm fire in a bunch of Boston Brownstones built in the late 1800s. That fire killed fireman and civilians. When is a building too old to live in safely. Rooms in a building can be remodeled, but it is usually the same sewer system, gas lines, power lines, dried out structural timbers and rotting brickwork. Is it safe to think buildings past a certain age are still habitable? I wouldn't live in any building that was older then I am. :-?

Um... Yes. I live in a house that was built in 1897. In this area, a substantial amount of housing was built pre-1950 and a lot in the 1800's or even older. Houses like mine are built much better than the McMansion shit that's being built today.

[KC2UGV]

I wasn't really referring to single family dwellings but bigger buildings like multiple occupancy apartment buildings. Old stacked stone foundations, 150 year old pipes leading sewage out of the building and gas in. Do the cities and boroughs replace all that stuff? How? They would have to tear up city streets. Then to boot, the wood structure is so dried out, you have to be worried about every smoker and arsonist living below you and above. I live in a one story ranch that could start on fire, but I can get out any window and not do more then stub my toe. Can't imagine being 5 stories up. I used a Ditch Witch to dig up my yard and fix my septic pipes.

It still boils down to as long as it's maintained, it should be fine. I'm not even all that concerned with a well-maintained knob-and-tube wired house.

[TESLA]

House built 1747 here

[n2ize]

First, I read about the gas explosion in New York City caused by a 150 year old ruptured gas line. Now it's a 9 alarm fire in a bunch of Boston Brownstones built in the late 1800s. That fire killed fireman and civilians. When is a building too old to live in safely. Rooms in a building can be remodeled, but it is usually the same sewer system, gas lines, power lines, dried out structural timbers and rotting brickwork. Is it safe to think buildings past a certain age are still habitable? I wouldn't live in any building that was older then I am. :-?


I would have no problem with it. In fact I have lived in buildings at least that old or older. In the NYC lots of people live in old brownstones and old tenements without incident. My Grandfathers house was around 200 years old when I was still a young kid. Occasionally there are fires, mostly due to common home accidents (i.e. stove left on, heater too close to combustibles, faulty appliance, careless use of candles, smoking, arson etc.) but the FDNY usually knocks them down fast and contains them to one or two apartment or one floor and these are fires that would occur in any building new or old. Occasionally major incidents or tragedies strike but that can happen in any building of any age. There have been plenty of fires, explosions, tragedies, in young buildings.


If you are going to buy an old house check that the wiring is adequate and is in good shape. If its old knob & tube wiring you might consider replacing it as it may be worn or not adequate for your needs. , But if you don't have it removed at least have it thoroughly checked to make sure it is in good shape. Same for gas pipes, furnaces, etc. If you are moving in to an old apartment building you can check its record regarding safety inspections, fire inspections, past incidents, etc.


Living in an old building doesn't have to be a risk Old buildings can be just as safe as young ones.

[W9JEF]

Our house was built in 1922. It's frame is sycamore.
Lost count of how many nails I bent trying to pound them in.

The 36-foot tower and 13-foot 2-inch PVC pipe
that supports the W9JEF 80 meter turnstile/ umbrella cage vertical,
and hamshack/workshop/bedroom windows can be seen on the right.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2535/4050927231_9c738e4626.jpg

When we bought it (October, 1982) there was only a single 120 volt phase,
and few outlets, all wired with #14. It was upgraded to 240 volt service,
and I wired many outlets with #12. Did lots of other renovating, including
the 90 lb roll roofing siding, new roof shingles, and oh, yes--indoor plumbing. :)

[N8GAV]

The first house I owned was builted in 1840, it was a brick home, redone in the mid 50's. I did more work to it, up graded wiring, plumbing, gas lines etc. etc. Loved the place, first wife got it when we divorce.

[N2NH]

Our house was built in 1922. It's frame is sycamore.
Lost count of how many nails I bent trying to pound them in.

The 36-foot tower and 13-foot 2-inch PVC pipe
that supports the W9JEF 80 meter turnstile/ umbrella cage vertical,
and hamshack/workshop/bedroom windows can be seen on the right.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2535/4050927231_9c738e4626.jpg

When we bought it (October, 1982) there was only a single 120 volt phase,
and few outlets, all wired with #14. It was upgraded to 240 volt service,
and I wired many outlets with #12. Did lots of other renovating, including
the 90 lb roll roofing siding, new roof shingles, and oh, yes, indoor plumbing. :)

Nice QTH. That wood sounds like it comes from virgin forests if it's that hard.

[K0RGR]

I'd be more worried about something built in the early 50's I think. And many were built in the 70's with aluminum wire - I owned one such minor nightmare. The recommended treatment for it was to splice the aluminum wire to a short piece of copper and use that as a pigtail to the boxes. Supposedly, that eliminated the fire hazards, but it also hid the fact that there was aluminum wiring. Asbestos was still a popular building material in the mid 20th century.

[W9JEF]

The first house I owned was builted in 1840, it was a brick home, redone in the mid 50's. I did more work to it, up graded wiring, plumbing, gas lines etc. etc. Loved the place, first wife got it when we divorce.

I feel your pain. Wife #3 fell in love with the place.
It was really run down and required lots of work;
like all new walls and ceilings, some new windows,
floors and doors. On 6.67 acres, it cost 15K (in 1982).
Lucky for me, in the divorce, she got her Hyundai and
my home-brew tube stereo amp, I kept the house. :)

[kb2vxa]

"First, I read about the gas explosion in New York City caused by a 150 year old ruptured gas line."
That's New York for ya. The only time any of the ancient infrastructure is replaced is when it fails, that is repaired piecemeal so it's a patchwork quilt construction. That gas main goes back to the days of illuminating gas aka the Gaslight Era! Water mains quite the same, much of it rusted cast iron so breaks are common and the system so leaky they waste more water flowing underground than what comes out of the taps. Then upstate there's a section of original twin pipeline bringing water down from Croton On Hudson that leaks so badly nearly a whole town is flooded by water visibly welling up out of the ground. They can't shut it down for repair because pressure is the only thing preventing it from collapsing. I love New York. Cummon now, sing along! I love New York...

Aluminium indoor wiring was banned for being a fire hazard as we all should know, but do you know why? It can handle the current without overheating, BUT those AL/CU fittings overheat due to contact of dissimilar metals. I really don't trust what I consider to be a "bright idea" of using copper pigtails to connect aluminium wiring to fixtures and inside the service entrance panels, they're still dissimilar metals. I'm sure you also know that outdoors in free air heat dissipation is not a problem, so power companies have used aluminium conductor over steel core cabling extensively since the price of copper shot through the roof. Look more closely and you'll see plenty of older copper conductors still in place. There's plenty of that around here and in the substation up the block where copper and aluminium come together, but like I said, outdoor in free air heat dissipation isn't a problem.

Oh I'm quite familiar with ancient houses, I've lived in enough of them and still do. The last before I moved here was a nightmare, between a cheapskate landlord and various half ass handymen passing themselves off as carpenters, electricians and plumbers the place was a disaster waiting to happen. To put it simply, with all the hazards you'd say I was out of my mind to live there, but it was a stepping stone for a year before I moved here when the place was condemned and demolished making way for two new homes. The front half of this place is about 150 years old, I live in the rear addition. The whole building was remodeled so everything is modern, fully inspected for the Certificate of Occupancy, and routinely inspected by the county Fire Marshall and Building Inspector. The house is perfectly save in every regard but one, just about every square inch of sand in this town has something on it and properties continue to be subdivided. More often than not adjacent houses are built right up to the 2ft property line setback, so those living in the front part can literally reach out the window and shake hands with the neighbors.

Back in my younger days this area was mostly woods outside the cities, now it's pretty much like it is up north where I came from. I lost count of the people who moved away from the city for a little breathing space only to find in a few years the city has followed them, there's no escape! HAAAALP!

Then in summer we have the tourists we call Bennies invading us from the NYC metro area, the population swells from 5,000 to more than twice that. Add the day trippers and weekend warriors, I may as well be living in Manhattan! They come with that city slicker attitude acting like they own the place hollering insults and sometimes bottles and assorted objects from passing cars, then the trash they throw all over the place sure keeps city cleanup crews busy. They have no idea they are GUESTS in OUR HOUSE and should behave like guests, more rowdy, disrespectful, and worse litterbugs that at home. They're lucky that shore people are laid back and tolerant, back home they'd get their asses kicked in a heartbeat! Talking with the locals we all agree, we have a love/hate relationship with them, we hate their guts but love their money, if not for seasonal income we couldn't survive because they provide a higher standard of living than what we'd have without them.

I have a solution but unfortunately the Ocean County Bored of Chosen Freeloaders won't listen to me. We have highway signs that say "Welcome to the Jersey Shore" that could be put to good use, just put big baskets under them that get emptied from time to time, add to the bottom of the signs and paint a few more words on them. "Welcome to the Jersey Shore, drop your money in the basket, now turn around and BENNY GO HOME!"

Meanwhile... get off my lawn!

[NY4Q]

Europe yes, America no.

[W9JEF]

<snip>

Back in my younger days this area was mostly woods outside the cities, now it's pretty much like it is up north where I came from. I lost count of the people who moved away from the city for a little breathing space only to find in a few years the city has followed them, there's no escape! HAAAALP!
<snip>


When I was a kid, the area where Lambeau Field sits was on the edge of town.
It was a 5-mile bike trip to the airport on a country road with a one-room school.
Now there's a casino & hotels at the airport (on Onieda Nation Reservation land),
and the corridor between there and Lambeau is all commercial (eateries, etc.)
the hotel rooms get $400/night on Packer game weekends.

[n2ize]

Then in summer we have the tourists we call Bennies invading us from the NYC metro area, the population swells from 5,000 to more than twice that. Add the day trippers and weekend warriors, I may as well be living in Manhattan! They come with that city slicker attitude acting like they own the place hollering insults and sometimes bottles and assorted objects from passing cars, then the trash they throw all over the place sure keeps city cleanup crews busy. They have no idea they are GUESTS in OUR HOUSE and should behave like guests, more rowdy, disrespectful, and worse litterbugs that at home. They're lucky that shore people are laid back and tolerant, back home they'd get their asses kicked in a heartbeat! Talking with the locals we all agree, we have a love/hate relationship with them, we hate their guts but love their money, if not for seasonal income we couldn't survive because they provide a higher standard of living than what we'd have without them.


The same is true up in the Adirondacks during tourist season (summer) and also winter for winter sports aficionados. People come in from the cities, mostly from Montreal, Quebec, and possible from as far way as Albany. Yeah, if you tell an Adirondack you live "down in the city" they assume you mean Albany rather than NYC. In and event when the tourists come in so does the rudeness, nasty attitudes, littering, etc. They stereotype and treat the locals like they are all a bunch of ignorant hillbillies. Of course not all the tourists act like this but enough do to make the locals hate them. But the locals tolerate them because they bring their money with them and best of all they SPEND it.

I don;t know why manyu New York City'ers act the way you describe. Perhaps there are so many people and things are so fast paste they become insensitive to others ? Perhaps some are just bastards. I'm from the city and surrounding areas and I always felt that I should be polite both in my home turf and especially when visiting someone else's turf. Some people in NYC are very polite and will come to your aid in a second if help is required. Others are just plain rude and think they own the world and are everyones boss. Reminds me of the afternoon I went into a furious rage at the 51st street IRT station directed at a very rude individual who was behind on the token booth line. Gotta love NY.

[N7YA]

Our house was built in 2006. In a couple of hundred years, it will be a classic!

[kb2vxa]

For once IZE agrees with me. More than that, he describes my feelings and the way I see things to a T! That's right, New Yorkers are a queer paradox, got that tough guy attitude and at the same time will help and pull together when it counts. I grew up on the Jersey side only 6mi from Empire as the crow flies and could see the top, been to "the city" many times. So why do they turn into monsters when they come down here like werewolves on the night of the full moon? They have the Rockaways and Jones Beach, why don't they stay home?

Oh yeah, he agrees with me. I think I'm gonna faint. <plop>