Chicago Deep-Dish Pizza- Is Really a Tomato Pie...

[N2NH]

So sez Supreme Scalia. And he's not alone:


Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia is no stranger to controversial rulings, and he's just issued an opinion that might be his most divisive yet: Chicago deep-dish shouldn't be called pizza.

“It’s very tasty, but it’s not pizza," he said Friday night in the Windy City, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

Don't worry, Chicago. Scalia's opinion, delivered at the Union League Club of Chicago’s 126th annual George Washington’s Birthday celebration, is non-binding and doesn't carry the full weight of the court (or even the weight of a deep dish from Uno or Lou Malnati's).

But it's clear Scalia is an originalist in more ways than one. Back in 2011, he explained why he believes a Chicago deep dish should be called "a tomato pie" and not pizza.

"Real pizza is Neapolitan [from Naples, Italy] It is thin," he was quoted as saying. "It is chewy and crispy, OK?"

Scalia has also called New York pizza "infinitely better" than Chicago's, but we should note he may be suffering from a bit of judicial bias. He was born in New Jersey and moved to New York at the age of 6, where he remained through high school.

But even without Scalia's opinion, deep-dish pizza has been hitting hard times. In December, a survey by the online ordering website GrubHub found that only 9 percent of all orders in Chicago are for deep-dish pizza.

And last year, 'Daily Show' host Jon Stewart railed against deep dish.

"Let me explain something, deep-dish pizza is not only not better than New York pizza. It's not pizza," Stewart explained in perhaps the only example of him agreeing with Scalia on anything. "It's a f***ing casserole!"

When Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel sent the 'Daily Show' crew some deep dish, Stewart released a video showing that even a dog wouldn't eat it.

Well I like deep dish. Once every few years. Makes for a nice change of pace.

Antonin Scalia Rules Deep Dish Is Not Pizza (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/17/antonin-scalia-rules-deep-dish-is-not-pizza_n_4801400.html)

[kb2vxa]

Everybody has their own idea what "real" pizza is depending on where you live and where you get your pizza from. Even greater debate comes whether you prefer Siciliano (deep dish) Napilatan or Romano. Then people who make their own think theirs is best even if everybody else think it sucks. Some even prefer spinach pizza, I think it sucks. I prefer New York style cooked in a coal fired brick oven and you don't have to go to Little Italy to get it, we here in "the beach" have The Coal House on Arnold Avenue (plug) and they serve lots of other goodies in the restaurant or take out, no home delivery. Oh, his pizza is menza menza but I like his name, Al Capone's over in Brick.

Off topic just a bit, everybody and his brother makes "Philly" cheese steak but the only REAL Philly cheese steak can be found in Philadelphia. I know, I've been around that block a few times and my tongue knows good Philly! They have pretty fair pizza too just to be fair. Also to be fair to your stomach and wallet, the absolute WORST food to be had at prices that make New York look cheap is on the boardwalk, BARF! Come on down and have fun, be a Bennie for a day, but take a tip from the locals and we all agree, in town the food is better and a whole lot cheaper.

I've lived here 14 years and haven't figured out where the hell this sign is!

[W3WN]

Many, many, (too) many moons ago, there was a restaurant in State College, where East College Avenue and High Street (1 way connection from Beaver Avenue) met up. It specialized in "pizzas of the world"

You name it, they probably had it on the menu. Sicilian, Neopolitan, Chicago Deep Dish, Hawaiian, Southwest, Eskimo (I have no idea), English (none there either)... all cheese, any toppings, all toppings... red sauce, white sauce...

Strictly speaking, a lot of their "pizzas" were indeed tomato pies with cheese toppings, or casseroles, or quiches... but if you ever asked, the manager would tell you "it's a pizza because we say it's a pizza!"

All these varieties. How could they go wrong?

...the business lasted 2 or 3 years before going under. Seems most people preferred a 'regular' pizza at half the cost.

Looks like the building is still there, though.

11713

[KK4AMI]

Having eaten everything, just about everywhere (just to look at me is proof of that), I have no pizza preferences. Thick crust, thin crust, veggie, cold for breakfast, and even anchovies! It all depends on the moment! I just love pizza.

[W3WN]

Having eaten everything, just about everywhere (just to look at me is proof of that), I have no pizza preferences. Thick crust, thin crust, veggie, cold for breakfast, and even anchovies! It all depends on the moment! I just love pizza.A pizza to go... with no anchovies.

No anchovies? You've got the wrong man. I spell my name: Danger!

wha?

[kb2vxa]

I have a pizza for Mister I. C. Wiener?

[KB3LAZ]

You've never had bad pizza until you've had pizza in Spain. Soggy cardboard with uncooked crushed tomato, assorted month old deli meat, and half a kilo of dried oregano. A discount frozen pizza that is three months expired from Aldi is better than anything I have ever had here.

I can get lots of good food here but pizza is not included.

[W3WN]

You've never had bad pizza until you've had pizza in Spain. Soggy cardboard with uncooked crushed tomato, assorted month old deli meat, and half a kilo of dried oregano. A discount frozen pizza that is three months expired from Aldi is better than anything I have ever had here.

I can get lots of good food here but pizza is not included.Having tried Aldi's frozen "pizza"... oh man, I feel for you. That's truly awful.

[KB3LAZ]

Having tried Aldi's frozen "pizza"... oh man, I feel for you. That's truly awful.

Seriously, some good food can be found in Spain provided it is Spanish food. Anything that originates from other countries is not something that you want to buy here.

[kb2vxa]

"A discount frozen pizza that is three months expired from Aldi is better than anything I have ever had here."

You haven't had pizza until you had it from a joint in Linden, NJ, the name I have thankfully forgotten but not the location on the corner of South Wood Avenue and the highway. That mess was SO BAD I haven't the words for it, all I can say is the rats wouldn't go near the dumpster full of uneaten "pizza" behind the place. It's no longer there but the headstones of the dearly departed remain where it once stood after the owner was imprisoned for poisoning his customers and the "pizzeria" declared a hazmat site and demolished.

[n2ize]

Everybody has their own idea what "real" pizza is depending on where you live and where you get your pizza from. Even greater debate comes whether you prefer Siciliano (deep dish) Napilatan or Romano. Then people who make their own think theirs is best even if everybody else think it sucks. Some even prefer spinach pizza, I think it sucks. I prefer New York style cooked in a coal fired brick oven and you don't have to go to Little Italy to get it, we here in "the beach" have The Coal House on Arnold Avenue (plug) and they serve lots of other goodies in the restaurant or take out, no home delivery. Oh, his pizza is menza menza but I like his name, Al Capone's over in Brick.



I agree with you here. In years past I used to haver to go to Brooklyn to get it. Now we have a couple places right nearby that make it in coal and wood fired overns.

And, this is the first time I ever agreed with Scalia.

BTW I am not saying Chicago style is not good. I am sure it's excellent and I am sure I'd like it. But it is different from what I am used to here in NY.

[N2NH]

You've never had bad pizza until you've had pizza in Spain. Soggy cardboard with uncooked crushed tomato, assorted month old deli meat, and half a kilo of dried oregano. A discount frozen pizza that is three months expired from Aldi is better than anything I have ever had here.

I can get lots of good food here but pizza is not included.

Make your own. Do they have French Bread? Make French Bread Pizza. Any good spaghetti sauce, a couple of pinches of oregano to taste, a half teaspoon of olive oil heat and you've got sauce. Get some fresh mozzarella cheese, grate and put on top of sauce. Stick in the oven at 300 for 8 to 12 minutes (or until cheese is starting to melt) and you've got pizza.

Even beats Stouffers for about ⅓ᴿᴰ to ½ the price.

[n2ize]

Seriously, some good food can be found in Spain provided it is Spanish food. Anything that originates from other countries is not something that you want to buy here.

I'm sure I'd get along fine. I like Spanish food.

[kb2vxa]

I make my French bread pizza like John but with a couple of small improvements. Fresh mozzarella is too soft to grate properly because it has the consistency of a doughball, I use the more or less standard slightly aged stuff. Mixing it with a bit of grated Romano makes it tangy, but not TOO much or you'll spoil it. It goes a lot faster in el horno microondas, when the cheese is evenly melted it's ready to eat. Oh, if you lightly toast the bread it adds a nice flavor. Just get creative and experiment, you'll find a recipe that fits your taste buds but don't give up if your first choice of spaghetti sauce isn't to your liking so shop around. That's the most important part of it, "they" make it with all sorts of different spice combinations so if it tastes good on spaghetti it'll taste good on anything.

That reminds me, I haven't made any in a long time and now I'm hungry. The only trouble is the store won't open until morning... WWWAAAaaaaaa......................

[KB3LAZ]

Make your own. Do they have French Bread? Make French Bread Pizza. Any good spaghetti sauce, a couple of pinches of oregano to taste, a half teaspoon of olive oil heat and you've got sauce. Get some fresh mozzarella cheese, grate and put on top of sauce. Stick in the oven at 300 for 8 to 12 minutes (or until cheese is starting to melt) and you've got pizza.

Even beats Stouffers for about ⅓ᴿᴰ to ½ the price.

Spaghetti sauce, not likely. There are some meat sauces here but they are so sweet that it is unreal. I do make homemade pizza but have to start with crushed tomatoes. It is an all day event. If it is premade or canned and you can buy it in the states then you likely can not get it here. Making anything that I am used to requires starting from scratch. I am fine with that for some things but for others I just don't have the time so it gets saved as an every now and again item.

[N2NH]

Spaghetti sauce, not likely. There are some meat sauces here but they are so sweet that it is unreal. I do make homemade pizza but have to start with crushed tomatoes. It is an all day event. If it is premade or canned and you can buy it in the states then you likely can not get it here. Making anything that I am used to requires starting from scratch. I am fine with that for some things but for others I just don't have the time so it gets saved as an every now and again item.

There is this thing... :cool2:it's called a slow cooker with a timer... :shhh:you can mix it up before work and be ready by the time you return... :yes:

[kb2vxa]

Since it's going to be an all day adventure, if you have a freezer you can make that day last for at least a month. A long time ago in a galaxy far away I had a complete kitchen. In a big pot on an electric stove that had continuous heat control (as opposed to controls with a series of positions) that gave superb settings I'd cook up mass quantities of my special all purpose tomato sauce with sausage and meat balls. Once started I'd turn down the heat to a low simmer, barely bubbling, skimming the grease off the top and stirring about every half hour or so because it got thick at the bottom. At such low heat it never burned and came out perfect every time. Then after using what I need that evening I'd put it in plastic containers, some with no sausage and meat balls and freeze them. It can be done in a crock pot, aka slow cooker, but without any stirring all day I'd imagine it would get a little funky at the bottom, difficult to clean when done. I didn't use one, they weren't invented until the Bronze Age.

[KB3LAZ]

There is this thing... :cool2:it's called a slow cooker with a timer... :shhh:you can mix it up before work and be ready by the time you return... :yes:

I have one, it took me a year to track it down. Sometimes I feel that the stores are quite medieval. As I said before, you might be surprised at just what you can't buy here. A good roasting pan cost me more than my first car. Okay, so that is a slight exaggeration, slight.

[K7SGJ]

I have one, it took me a year to track it down. Sometimes I feel that the stores are quite medieval. As I said before, you might be surprised at just what you can't buy here. A good roasting pan cost me more than my first car. Okay, so that is a slight exaggeration, slight.


Well, you could put wheels on it. I doubt anyone in Spain would really notice, or GAS.

[koØm]

There is this thing... :cool2:it's called a slow cooker with a timer... :shhh:you can mix it up before work and be ready by the time you return... :yes:

Skyline Chili - It gets better overnight in the frig; goes good out of the microwave with eggs.

.

[n2ize]

I have one, it took me a year to track it down. Sometimes I feel that the stores are quite medieval. As I said before, you might be surprised at just what you can't buy here. A good roasting pan cost me more than my first car. Okay, so that is a slight exaggeration, slight.

That sounds great to me !! :)

[n2ize]

Spaghetti sauce, not likely. There are some meat sauces here but they are so sweet that it is unreal. I do make homemade pizza but have to start with crushed tomatoes. It is an all day event. If it is premade or canned and you can buy it in the states then you likely can not get it here. Making anything that I am used to requires starting from scratch. I am fine with that for some things but for others I just don't have the time so it gets saved as an every now and again item.

Might be best just to eat at restaurants.

[kb2vxa]

If roasting pans cost THAT much maybe you'd be better off gathering a few tools and junk yard sheet metal together and learn metalwork. Having Spain as the S in PIGS is making more sense than ever, it's looking more like a Third World nation every time I read one of Paul's posts. Maybe you'd do better in an African nation with a nickname for Charles?

Oooh that's bad, I'm sorry.

[KB3LAZ]

If roasting pans cost THAT much maybe you'd be better off gathering a few tools and junk yard sheet metal together and learn metalwork. Having Spain as the S in PIGS is making more sense than ever, it's looking more like a Third World nation every time I read one of Paul's posts. Maybe you'd do better in an African nation with a nickname for Charles?

Oooh that's bad, I'm sorry.

Nah, I wouldn't go that far. It is different, not particularly bad. Hard to adjust to for me but over the last two years, I have.

[KB3LAZ]

Might be best just to eat at restaurants.

Its easy to make many things from scratch. Pasta, any kind of meat, veggies, salads, etc. Al in under 30 minutes. It is just that there are a few special things that I am miss that are not readily available.

[kb2vxa]

"Nah, I wouldn't go that far."

What, making a roasting pan out of sheet metal or moving to Chad? (;->)

[KB3LAZ]

"Nah, I wouldn't go that far."

What, making a roasting pan out of sheet metal or moving to Chad? (;->)

I'd opt to make the roasting pan first. Botswana is on my list of places to visit though. Guided camp on the Okavango. Chad, you can keep.

[WØTKX]

Pizza Pot Pie. Google it.

[kb2vxa]

Conceived by the owner in his Chicago Law Office while Dreaming of "il gran giorno" when he would open his restaurant, the sausage made from prime Boston butts has become a favorite of world-wide butt pie connoisseurs who have graced the Chicago Butts and Sausage Grinder Company since its inception in 1972. Vegetarian butt pie may be special ordered.

MMMmmmghthgtgghhh........... butt pie.

[WØTKX]

Homer is a poser, I'll raise ya this cartoon gem...

http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~callaway/crumb2.gif

[kb2vxa]

Mr. Natural eats only organically grown butts, not GMO butts sprayed with pesticide. Keep on truckin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grrp6mxrY5Y

[KG4CGC]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/zzzzzha2_zpsdaeb2c10.png

[kb2vxa]

Not so close up please, that looks like something next to the toilet after a beer bash.

[KG4CGC]

Not so close up please, that looks like something next to the toilet after a beer bash.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/Pizza_DEC_22_01_zpsb56b791f.png

[kb2vxa]

.

[w3bny]

Hand-tossed is about as thick as this bun goes.

[kb2vxa]

Yeah, keep that designer pizza, Panucci's is the way to go. No anchovies please, I don't eat fishing bait.

[KC2UGV]

I have one, it took me a year to track it down. Sometimes I feel that the stores are quite medieval. As I said before, you might be surprised at just what you can't buy here. A good roasting pan cost me more than my first car. Okay, so that is a slight exaggeration, slight.

Likely, because in Europe, a slow cooker is a dutch oven :)

[W3WN]

Yeah, keep that designer pizza, Panucci's is the way to go. No anchovies please, I don't eat fishing bait.No anchovies? You've got the wrong man!

(yo, Pope! your Q)

[NQ6U]

No anchovies? You've got the wrong man!

(yo, Pope! your Q)

I spell my name...DANGER!

[goddamned great sandstone building. My nose still hurts...]

[N2NH]

The best pizza I've had outside of Brooklyn was CiCi's in Florida. It was $4 a large pie (Brick Oven too) and always tasted great. They had a pizza buffet too with a dozen or so of types of pizzas. We lived on the stuff for months and still miss it.

#2, the Pizzeria in New Paltz. But those guys are from New York so you sort of expect that.

[kb2vxa]

$4 pizza! Bring the whole family, Fred, Wilma, and Pebbles. Sorry, no pets allowed, but we'll give you a doggiesaurus bag. So, what improvements did they make with the New Paltz and is it any better than the old one? What is a Paltz anyway and what does it do?

[K7SGJ]

$4 pizza! Bring the whole family, Fred, Wilma, and Pebbles. Sorry, no pets allowed, but we'll give you a doggiesaurus bag. So, what improvements did they make with the New Paltz and is it any better than the old one? What is a Paltz anyway and what does it do?


And would the delivery boy be a...................Paltz Bearer?

[X-Rated]

The best pizza I've had outside of Brooklyn was CiCi's in Florida. It was $4 a large pie (Brick Oven too) and always tasted great....

You haven't had many pizza's there, have you?

[n2ize]

If I didn't grow up and and near NYC my next choice would be Chicago. Next to NYC , Chicago is my kinda town. These days I have my sights set on living in the far north (even though my dad would declare me crazy) but, next to NYC if I had to live/grow up in or near any other city it would be Chicago.

[n2ize]

The best pizza I've had outside of Brooklyn was CiCi's in Florida. It was $4 a large pie (Brick Oven too) and always tasted great. They had a pizza buffet too with a dozen or so of types of pizzas. We lived on the stuff for months and still miss it.

#2, the Pizzeria in New Paltz. But those guys are from New York so you sort of expect that.

Best Pizza I currently have is inside of Brooklyn. $1.00 for a large pie (brick oven). 25 cents extra for additional toppings. No I am not going to name the name or location in Brooklyn of the place. I don't want to swamp the owner with more business than he can handle.

[KG4CGC]

Not so close up please, that looks like something next to the toilet after a beer bash.

You should look for all the little faces in the pizza toppings.

[N2NH]

You haven't had many pizza's there, have you?

In over 31 years in Brooklyn, I must've ordered over 1,000 pies in that time. Had about 5 Cici's a week for 3 months in FL. Best $20 I ever spent, and unlike NYC, there was no tax on the food there. Next best buy in FL, 50 hot wings for $22 at Ponderosa steak house with their own BBQ Sauce. That was when there was a bit of extra money in the till.

[n2ize]

In over 31 years in Brooklyn, I must've ordered over 1,000 pies in that time. Had about 5 Cici's a week for 3 months in FL. Best $20 I ever spent, and unlike NYC, there was no tax on the food there. Next best buy in FL, 50 hot wings for $22 at Ponderosa steak house with their own BBQ Sauce. That was when there was a bit of extra money in the till.

Fl isn't a bad place for pizza. But it's the politics that keeps me out if the south. last thing they want in the south are young, college educated, liberals like myself. On more than one occasion I was told by the cops down there that I was being watched and sooner or later they'd lock me in jail even if they had to set me up. One officer reminded me that I was in "Rush Limbaugh Country" and he said, "jail is the place for your kind". Pizza or no pizza I decided to pull out of the south. Besides I can get the best pizza in the world from my place in Brooklyn. $1.00 for a large pie is the best price you'll find these days.

[K7SGJ]

Fl isn't a bad place for pizza. But it's the politics that keeps me out if the south. last thing they want in the south are young, college educated, liberals like myself. On more than one occasion I was told by the cops down there that I was being watched and sooner or later they'd lock me in jail even if they had to set me up. One officer reminded me that I was in "Rush Limbaugh Country" and he said, "jail is the place for your kind". Pizza or no pizza I decided to pull out of the south. Besides I can get the best pizza in the world from my place in Brooklyn. $1.00 for a large pie is the best price you'll find these days.

Dude, you just don't seem have any luck, no matter where you go.

[KB3LAZ]

Likely, because in Europe, a slow cooker is a dutch oven :)

Haven't seen one of those here either.

[WØTKX]

Boy Scouts, campfire coals, buried Dutch Oven in same.

MN Woods gourmet. Awesome.

[N2NH]

Dude, you just don't seem have any luck, no matter where you go.

I honestly can't imagine why. :locked:

[X-Rated]

In over 31 years in Brooklyn, I must've ordered over 1,000 pies in that time. Had about 5 Cici's a week for 3 months in FL. Best $20 I ever spent, and unlike NYC, there was no tax on the food there. Next best buy in FL, 50 hot wings for $22 at Ponderosa steak house with their own BBQ Sauce. That was when there was a bit of extra money in the till.

The Cici's here are not that great. For me, the best pizza town is Austin, TX. They know how to make pizza.

[KG4CGC]

The Cici's here are not that great. For me, the best pizza town is Austin, TX. They know how to make pizza.

Keep Austin Weird.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Keep+Austin+Weird&num=100&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=L98bU-jAK9LhqAHMi4HIDg&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1288&bih=665

[X-Rated]

There's no other town like Austin.

[n2ize]

Dude, you just don't seem have any luck, no matter where you go.

Actually I have pretty good luck wherever I go. However, I am a college educated atheist from NYC and therefore hated in the south. I met some very nice people down there and I was short haired, clean shaven, respectfully dressed but the law still had it in for me. Like the sherrif told me, "we don't like your kind round these parts and sooner or later we're gonna lock your ass in jail even if we have ta frame ya".

[n2ize]

In over 31 years in Brooklyn, I must've ordered over 1,000 pies in that time. Had about 5 Cici's a week for 3 months in FL. Best $20 I ever spent, and unlike NYC, there was no tax on the food there. Next best buy in FL, 50 hot wings for $22 at Ponderosa steak house with their own BBQ Sauce. That was when there was a bit of extra money in the till.

I just got back home from my pizza place in Brooklyn. Rode Metro North to GCT then caught a subway to Fulton then switched to an east bound J train which I rode to Crescent Street. A short walk from Crescent is my pizza place. I brought home 3 large pies made in an ancient coal oven half-sausage/half plain. Cost me a total of $4.50 ($1.50/pie). Then I took the reverse ride back up home. This place has been in business from back when I lived in that neighborhood as a kid back in the early 60's. Actually he's been there since 1936. Place hasn't changed and the prices have hardly changed. $1.00 buys you the best pie in the country. $1.50 - $2.00 for a large pie with any toppings you could want. The cost of the transportation was much more than the cost of the pies. But it was well worth the trip.

[kb2vxa]

Likely, because in Europe, a slow cooker is a dutch oven.
Anywhere you fart in bed and pull the covers over the head of the one lying next to you there is a Dutch Oven. When he/she sits up and glares at you there is a slow cooker.