Going Windowless !

[WN9HJW]

OK. Well I finally made up my mind to go completely Windows-less. At least at home.

I've been dabbling with variuos Linux distributions the past year or so & found I have been using Windows less and less. I'm no longer afraid of using the command line terminal - in fact in some strange way it's "liberating" not having to deal with a GUI for every little thing.

It took awhile but I have eventually convinced myself that almost everything I need to do can be done with Linux. The only commercial software I'll stil use will be Mathematica. Some of what I need to do with that is available in things like Sage and Maxima but it's just easier to use the commercial Mathematica since I'm used to it. I do some basic work with Matlab, as well, but so far Octave covers most of that need. The most recent versions of Libreoffice have solved some of the incompatibility issues with MS Office that kept me away before.

In the process right now of dedicating Linux Mint Cinnamon to my Dell ultrabook. No more dual-boot, either. Full replacement with Linux.

I went back and forth mainly between Ubuntu and Mint Mate or Cinnamon and decided on Mint Cinnamon.

I never particularly liked the Unity in Ubuntu but started getting used to it, and I had fewer hardware problems with Ubuntu. But some time over the past year, the Ubuntu software manager has started trying to sell me commercial software and magazine subscriptions, and there doesn't seem to be any way to turn that off, and that turned ME off. If I want a commercial app store, I can just use my Mac.

I still have a iMac desktop - although now run Linux on it in virtual machines using VirtualBox. But no more WIndows machines for me. I've had enough.

I'm shopping for a 15 or 17 inch laptop or mobile workstation for those times when I want to do some serious work related stuff at home. Not sure yet what Linux I'll put on that one. Just trying to decide whether to buy a linux-pre-configured laptop from someplace like ZAReason or System 76; or a Windows 8 laptop locally and invest the effort to replace the Windows with Linux

[kb2vxa]

Linux is an interesting treatment for photophobia. That's good to know, having gooey over every little thing can be annoying too. Tux conquers all!

[KC2UGV]

Since you use Mathematica, are you aware the Raspberry Pi linux distro (Raspbian) comes with a full version of it?

[W2NAP]

Mint honestly is far better then the ubuntu. (as mint strips out the crap sneaky shuttledork has been doing)

If Mint would keep a LXDE version going id use that. but I been using Fedora LXDE for awhile now and do like it.

[NM5TF]

welcome to the dark side...been win free/trouble free since 2008....never looked back....:yes:

[N2CHX]

Mint Cinnamon. Good choice. My OS since I left Ubuntu behind about two years ago now. Ubuntu has become too dumbed down and their new GUI is just horrid.

[ad4mg]

Mint Cinnamon. Good choice. My OS since I left Ubuntu behind about two years ago now. Ubuntu has become too dumbed down and their new GUI is just horrid.

Hi, Kelli! I suppose you are referring to the Unity desktop Ubuntu has adapted as their 'standard'. I am running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on several machines, and am pleased with this particular version. I have noted, from running newer versions in a virtual machine, that the Unity interface seems to be taking on a more 'commercialized' approach, hawking paid wares in both the dashboard, and in the software center.

When Ubuntu drops support for 12.04 LTS, I'll likely migrate to Mint. The Cinnamon desktop is pretty decent. I also have two versions of Mint installed in VirtualBox, 15 and 16.

I, too despised the Unity desktop at first, but it has grown on me!

[N2CHX]

Hi, Kelli! I suppose you are referring to the Unity desktop Ubuntu has adapted as their 'standard'. I am running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on several machines, and am pleased with this particular version. I have noted, from running newer versions in a virtual machine, that the Unity interface seems to be taking on a more 'commercialized' approach, hawking paid wares in both the dashboard, and in the software center.

When Ubuntu drops support for 12.04 LTS, I'll likely migrate to Mint. The Cinnamon desktop is pretty decent. I also have two versions of Mint installed in VirtualBox, 15 and 16.

I, too despised the Unity desktop at first, but it has grown on me!

Hey Luke :)

I really, really like the Cinnamon desktop. Admittedly I haven't even looked at Ubuntu since I dropped it a couple of years ago, so maybe there have been some improvements made with Unity, but... I like a degree of simplicity and when you have a menu system that scrolls a bunch of pictures at you or that makes you have to "jump" from one submenu to another submenu to another one just to get to one simple thing... No thanks. Unity just seems like a bunch of fancy-pants BS that's supposed to "look cool" and be like a combination of [the worst?] elements of Windows and Mac. Maybe I'd get used to it, but ATM I have no need.

[NQ6U]

The Unity desktop is nothing more than a poorly-executed copy of the Mac OS X GUI.

[NM5TF]

Hey Luke :)

I really, really like the Cinnamon desktop. Admittedly I haven't even looked at Ubuntu since I dropped it a couple of years ago, so maybe there have been some improvements made with Unity, but... I like a degree of simplicity and when you have a menu system that scrolls a bunch of pictures at you or that makes you have to "jump" from one submenu to another submenu to another one just to get to one simple thing... No thanks. Unity just seems like a bunch of fancy-pants BS that's supposed to "look cool" and be like a combination of [the worst?] elements of Windows and Mac. Maybe I'd get used to it, but ATM I have no need.

hey Kelli,

if your only complaint about Ubuntu is the Unity interface, you can always go back to Gnome...it's up to v 3 now I believe...

at 1st I also didn't like Unity, but it grows on ya after a while....and you can always lock an app to the bar so it's only
1 click away....

but yeah, Mint Cinnamon definitely rocks !!!

altho Mint 16 is based on Ubu 13.10, I was informed that it uses a different shell....must be why it's faster & sleeker
than Ubu....

if you're into weather watching, or monitoring your system functions...check out conky...

here is a screenie showing what can be done with conky....

tommy

[N2CHX]

hey Kelli,

if your only complaint about Ubuntu is the Unity interface, you can always go back to Gnome...it's up to v 3 now I believe...

at 1st I also didn't like Unity, but it grows on ya after a while....and you can always lock an app to the bar so it's only
1 click away....

but yeah, Mint Cinnamon definitely rocks !!!

altho Mint 16 is based on Ubu 13.10, I was informed that it uses a different shell....must be why it's faster & sleeker
than Ubu....

if you're into weather watching, or monitoring your system functions...check out conky...

here is a screenie showing what can be done with conky....

tommy

That looks pretty interesting. Well, my MIL may be getting this laptop, as it comes with me everywhere I go, it's got a nice chip in the corner of the screen case from being dropped off the backside of my Ninja, and it's getting up in years (5 now, I think). My MIL got the last elderly laptop from us and it's about had it. Her birthday is in April so I'm thinking new laptop and she can have this one as part of her BD gift. It's got a lot of life left in it, but not the way I use it because of getting stuffed into a bag and riding a motorcycle and such... Anyway, she's been using Ubuntu since we gave her the last laptop 4 years ago and she loves it. Up until then, she had Windows XP and I was over there every week fixing some stupid maintenance issue. Since installing Ubuntu, I think I've touched it maybe 3 or 4 times.

So anyway, maybe I'll give it a whirl or try something new with this when I pass it on.

Incidentally, the best thing I ever did (besides switch to Linux) was replace the drive with an SSD. WOW!

[WN9HJW]

Since you use Mathematica, are you aware the Raspberry Pi linux distro (Raspbian) comes with a full version of it?

I am now. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.

[WN9HJW]

The Unity desktop is nothing more than a poorly-executed copy of the Mac OS X GUI.

I've always thought the same thing. Maybe that's why I got used to it since I've used Macs since 1990. And while a little clunky, I find it actually slightly easier to work with on my small ultrabook when I'm just using the trackpad.

Even a poorly executed version of a Mac GUI is better than the abomination that Windows 8 is.

That's the choice I've been facing because I've been needing a new full size laptop for awhile. So it's been Windows 7, which one can still get and works very well but is getting a little tired; versus Windows Abomination (Win 8 ) versus MacBook Pro (the prices of the Mac laptops have always been high - but have really skyrocketed even higher ever since Jobs died); versus some flavor of Linux.

I picked up a Dell Insprion at Best Buy on the way home from work Thursday. Sat down with it Friday evening to install Mint on it.

Didn't get very far. The space-bar on the damn computer didn't work! I don't know about anyone else, but I like to put spaces in between words. So brought it back for a refund Sat morning. There wasn't anything else in stock there that I liked. I kind of liked the ASUS laptop but the screen was 'floppy". Ever little movement would cause the screen to wobble back and forth for several seconds and that would drive me crazy pretty quick.

So I got home empty-handed and spent the rest of the day doing some research online and it eventually came down to Lenovo ThinkPad that I could install Linux on; or "Snares Penguin" from a place called ThinkPenquin that is partnered with the Mint Project. I decided to order the latter. 15 inch 1920x1080, i7, 8GB and a 240 GB solid state drive. Mint Cinnamon. This will be perfect configuration for what I do.

[n2ize]

I set my newest system up without Windows. Up till now I always made every workstation dual boot (Windows/Fedora). This time I put in a new drive and just put in Fedora. Plus if I need Windows I have 3 other machines with it available. Over the years I have found the need for Windows to be less and less and less. It's extremely rare that I ever need it these days.

[KC2UGV]

I set my newest system up without Windows. Up till now I always made every workstation dual boot (Windows/Fedora). This time I put in a new drive and just put in Fedora. Plus if I need Windows I have 3 other machines with it available. Over the years I have found the need for Windows to be less and less and less. It's extremely rare that I ever need it these days.

Yeah, I've been starting to not dual boot either, just having a stock Windows image in the wings in a VirtualBox vm.

[n2ize]

Yeah, I've been starting to not dual boot either, just having a stock Windows image in the wings in a VirtualBox vm.

Yep, I might go that route and use a virtual machine.. But the thing is right now I have both my new and old machine connected via a KVM switch. So if I need Windows I just boot the old system which is dual boot into windows and just hit the KVM switch to switch over to the Windows box.

[W9WLS]

ADVICE NEEDED !
I am not a "command line"person, I would love to get away from "WINDOZE" (especially WINDOZE 8) and all it's quirks but keep the programs that I have that run under "WINDOZE" .
I have played with "UBUNTU 10" but not much and rather like it but have not put it on my Win 7 / 64 machine.
The big question is,,,, is there a version of "LINUX" that I can "over install" and keep the windoze look and feel and run windoze compatible programs without a great deal of "tweaking" (if any) .
Any Recommendations ?

[WN9HJW]

You want to keep the Windows "look and feel" and want to run Windows programs. Why not just stay with Windows?

I'm a LInux "newb" but it seems to me that the right answer is use Linux programs if you're going to run Linux. I would assume that most people who switch to LInux do so to get AWAY from Windows. Otherwise what's the point?

I understand it is possible to run some WIndows programs under a Linux program called WINE. I haven't tried it. No need to. Everything I ever did in Windows is available in some form or other in a LInux app, or as a Linux version.

[n6hcm]

W9WLS, not really. "Look and feel" is part of what makes Windows what it is and if other operating systems provided it then they risk legal action by Microsoft.

Linux is something that, generally, *replaces* Windows. There are technologies where you can use both on the same computer, but running one generally precludes running programs from the other (so you can boot Windows now, reboot into Linux in an hour and then reboot back into Windows ... ). There's a technology called "virtual machines" where you can run one of these inside the other, but you'll need more resources (disk space, memory) to do this.

How to proceed? Find a cheap laptop and put Ubuntu on it. Use this as your experimentation computer while preserving all the data you care about on yoru existing Windows 7 computer. When you're more confident you can start to copy data from your Windows computer to the Linux computer ... and if you decide that Linux isn't for you then you haven't risked your data at all.

One more thing: you don't *have* to be a "command-line person" to use Linux. You don't have to be a command-line person to use Windows either. Some things get easier when you do use the command line, but most of Linux has programs with graphical user interfaces and so you can use a keyboard and mouse (similar to what you do with Wind0ws).

[n2ize]

You want to keep the Windows "look and feel" and want to run Windows programs. Why not just stay with Windows?

I'm a LInux "newb" but it seems to me that the right answer is use Linux programs if you're going to run Linux. I would assume that most people who switch to LInux do so to get AWAY from Windows. Otherwise what's the point?

I understand it is possible to run some WIndows programs under a Linux program called WINE. I haven't tried it. No need to. Everything I ever did in Windows is available in some form or other in a LInux app, or as a Linux version.

There is also "Mono" which is an open source implementation of the Microsoft .NET framework which enables users to develop and run C# apps on non Microsoft platforms, such as Linux. It is what enables me to run the open source train simulator "openbve" on my Fedora desktop. So once I had mono and the necessary sound and graphics libraries installed all I need to is issue the command "$ mono openbve.exe" from an terminal and the simulator starts up and runs flawlessly under Linux. Were it not for "Mono" I would have to switch to a Windows box to run in or else run it in a Windows VM.

So yes, I agree. For the most part I can get along without Windows just fine these days. Sucvh was not the case 5-10 years ago where there were some thing that just needed Windows and thus I always made my systems dual boot. These days I can get everything I need done with a native Linux app or with some workaround, i.e. WINE, Mono, Java, Web Apps, etc.

[n2ize]

The Unity desktop is nothing more than a poorly-executed copy of the Mac OS X GUI.

I am a KDE person. I like the look and feel of KDE. Yes, it is a bit resource intensive but this is 2014 and its not a problem on todays 64 bit multi core systems. Heck, I was even getting great results with it on my older 32 bit single processor system. Only difference is that it runs a bit slower on that system.

[n2ize]

One more thing: you don't *have* to be a "command-line person" to use Linux. You don't have to be a command-line person to use Windows either. Some things get easier when you do use the command line, but most of Linux has programs with graphical user interfaces and so you can use a keyboard and mouse (similar to what you do with Wind0ws).

True. These days the typical Linux desktop you can do just about everything with a GUI. Such was not the case 10-15 years ago when the command line was necessary. In fact I used to do just about all the configurations by direct editing of the config files. These days the GUi apps handle it a lot easier and are much more user friendly. I very rarely use the command line these days.

[W9WLS]

Let Me try to explain myself a bit better.
I have many programs that were written to run under the Windows OS of one flavor or another also many files .DOC , .XLS, .PDF , ect.,, which I would like to be able to use in a non Windows environment.
What little "playing" I have done with "UBUNTU 10" I like but I've not tried using any of the programs written for Windows under it , DID a clean install of Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10 as a duel boot on a old Dell box.
Although both of my Son's are network engineers , they live in a Windows / command line world (I have learned from past experience that I can screw thing's up pretty fast running command line thing's I don't understand) I don't have ready access to them all the time so I keep a note book of bug's for when I do /can ask questions.
Wife's laptop has Windows 8 on it and I am acquiring a passionate dislike for the Windows 8 OS.
I guess what I'm looking for is an "IDIOT PROOF" OS that I can put on all our computers that will run the thing's we already have ( we are both getting up in years and changes are not easy sometimes ) .
There you have it, any recommendations ?
73, John

[n2ize]

Let Me try to explain myself a bit better.
I have many programs that were written to run under the Windows OS of one flavor or another also many files .DOC , .XLS, .PDF , ect.,, which I would like to be able to use in a non Windows environment.

Both Linux and Macs will handle those types. LibreOffice should handle them all. And in the case of pdf's there is a version of Acrobat Reader for Linux, although there are plenty of other alternatives including LibreOffice.



What little "playing" I have done with "UBUNTU 10" I like but I've not tried using any of the programs written for Windows under it , DID a clean install of Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10 as a duel boot on a old Dell box.


To run a native windows application under Linux would require either WINE or "Mono" (for .NET/C# apps). or you can run Windows under Linux as a virtual machine. However, for most files encountered on a day to day basic there is usually a native Linux app that can easily handle them.



Although both of my Son's are network engineers , they live in a Windows / command line world (I have learned from past experience that I can screw thing's up pretty fast running command line thing's I don't understand) I don't have ready access to them all the time so I keep a note book of bug's for when I do /can ask questions.
Wife's laptop has Windows 8 on it and I am acquiring a passionate dislike for the Windows 8 OS.
I guess what I'm looking for is an "IDIOT PROOF" OS that I can put on all our computers that will run the thing's we already have ( we are both getting up in years and changes are not easy sometimes ) .
There you have it, any recommendations ?
73, John

Linux is pretty much idiot proof. Just make sure you don't run your login session as root or as an administration. If you run as a regular non-privileged user you still have a lot of power in what you can do but it makes it extremely hard to accidentally trash the system. For those moments where you do need root/administrator access you rn the command under "sudo".

[W9WLS]

Thank You John !
Sent you an e-mail to the addy listed on that other place.
73, John