Is the Universe Built on Math? This Physicist Believes it is...

[N2NH]

Physicist Mark Tegman believes that the Universe is built on Math. Wouldn't that mean it was "engineered"? That an intelligence made it?

Source: Stitcher/Science Friday

SciFri: Is the Universe Built on Math? (http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/science-friday-audio-podcast/episode/31793822?refid=eml_Science20140123&autoplay=true)

[NQ6U]

Physicist Mark Tegman believes that the Universe is built on Math. Wouldn't that mean it was "engineered"? That an intelligence made it?

I don't see that it means that and Tegman did not make the assertion. To be perfectly honest, though, I think the guy is a little too interested in pushing his books. I also have doubts about the idea of a multiverse. There are other hypothesis that work just as well that don't require parallel universes.

[K7SGJ]

I don't see that it means that and Tegman did not make the assertion. To be perfectly honest, though, I think the guy is a little too interested in pushing his books. I also have doubts about the idea of a multiverse. There are other hypothesis that work just as well that don't require parallel universes.


Parallel bars would help. Of course, they could be down the street from each other, too.

[NQ6U]

Parallel bars would help. Of course, they could be down the street from each other, too.

Bars always help. Charles? Pour me the usual and give Eddie whatever he wants on the Vatican tab.

[WØTKX]

http://i.imgur.com/cjoVh.jpg

[KC2UGV]

Physicist Mark Tegman believes that the Universe is built on Math. Wouldn't that mean it was "engineered"? That an intelligence made it?

Source: Stitcher/Science Friday

SciFri: Is the Universe Built on Math? (http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/science-friday-audio-podcast/episode/31793822?refid=eml_Science20140123&autoplay=true)

Why would that imply it was engineered, or designed?

[N2NH]

Why would that imply it was engineered, or designed?

A Universe built on Math would be a sign of intelligence. Much as we transmitted pi and prime numbers to potentially communicate with other civilizations in space (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_extraterrestrial_intelligence). Math is on the disk that is on the Voyager spacecraft that Carl Sagan designed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record). Music is mathematic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics) It is a universal language. It also denotes intelligence, at least on a societal scale and theoretically on a scale such as the Universe. We expect other civilizations to understand our math (http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf). Could it be that the designer of the Universe expects us to understand their math?

Chaos, which would be in a Universe that was random, would not be mathematic.

[NQ6U]

A Universe built on Math would be a sign of intelligence.

Why?

[N2NH]

Why?

It is how we communicate and it is a universal language. See the links embedded in post #7 (a/k/a Post 575615). (https://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php/27038-Is-the-Universe-Built-on-Math-This-Physicist-Believes-it-is?p=575615&viewfull=1#post575615)

[NQ6U]

It is how we communicate and it is a universal language. See the links embedded in post #7 (a/k/a Post 575615). (https://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php/27038-Is-the-Universe-Built-on-Math-This-Physicist-Believes-it-is?p=575615&viewfull=1#post575615)

That's all true, but I don't see how it implies intelligent design.

[N2NH]

That's all true, but I don't see how it implies intelligent design.

Oh, not the way Bible Thumpers and the Religious Intolerables believe it, but yes it is a design and yes that the design is based on mathematics means there is intelligence behind it. Nothing quite as regressive and ignorant as their idea of intelligent design.

[NQ6U]

I don't really see it that way, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[kb2vxa]

The universe is built on math and the answer is 42. The mice really didn't die, they took over the world.

[K7SGJ]

I don't really see it that way, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.


It's really quite simple. if you were to break down a typical DNA helix, and number each of the different strands, you would see a broken down DNA helix with stranded numbers.

Does that help?

[WØTKX]

No, 37 is the number, and the key to moleeds... :lol:

http://youtu.be/hyy-rijXDHw


http://youtu.be/hyy-rijXDHw

[n2ize]

A Universe built on Math would be a sign of intelligence.

Not necessarily. In my opinion what he is saying is nothing more than there is this universe and we can describe it's properties using mathematics, which is what we have been doing all along. I don;t see anything particularly revolutionary about that idea. In fact, as you break the universe down into more and more fundamental particles it is kind of obvious that the math required to describe them is going to get simpler till you reach a point where you can describe them in terms of discrete numbers or states represented by numbers, i.e. -1, 1 , 0 3, or 0, 1, etc. This is not surprising and the reason why we can often describe simple or fundamental concepts using simple numbers and/or simple mathematical relationships yet when describing complex systems we need differential equations. Also there is a contradiction. Since infinity lives in mathematics, in fact its the basis for what we refer to as the calculus yet he is saying infinity does not live within the universe (he gave the example of sound passing through air moving discrete particles) then the universe is not entirely mathematical as it may not accommodate infinity hinting that perhaps math is conceptual and is not the universe, or perhaps discrete math is the universe. part of our ability to actually solve some problems is to take them from the infinite realm make them discrete and solve them with computers to get useful results. Infinitesimal is the word I prefer to use as we delve into smaller and smaller particles. Could a fundamental particle be infinitesimally small ? What state would it exist in ?



Much as we transmitted pi and prime numbers to potentially communicate with other civilizations in space (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_extraterrestrial_intelligence). Math is on the disk that is on the Voyager spacecraft that Carl Sagan designed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record). Music is mathematic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics) It is a universal language. It also denotes intelligence, at least on a societal scale and theoretically on a scale such as the Universe. We expect other civilizations to understand our math (http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf). Could it be that the designer of the Universe expects us to understand their math?


We don't know because we don't know if there is a designer Even if the universe was pure math it doesn't mean there is a designer.. We send out patterns based on the assumption that intelligent life would recognize a pattern over random noise. Similarly we scan the heavens for signals indicating patterns that seem to be distinguishable from random noise.



Chaos, which would be in a Universe that was random, would not be mathematic.

Not necessarily. Actually chaos and randomness are mathematical concepts so if the universe is math then there would very likely be chaos/randomness and chaos would be consistent with a universe that is math. . In fact there is an entire branch of math called "Chaos Theory" and we assume randomness quite often in a mathematical concept. So why wouldn't the universe be chaotic ? There are several theories on this idea that the universe is chaotic, and even arguments expounding a duality...both chaotic (random) and ordered simultaneously.

[KC2UGV]

A Universe built on Math would be a sign of intelligence. Much as we transmitted pi and prime numbers to potentially communicate with other civilizations in space (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_extraterrestrial_intelligence). Math is on the disk that is on the Voyager spacecraft that Carl Sagan designed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_Voyager_Golden_Record). Music is mathematic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics) It is a universal language. It also denotes intelligence, at least on a societal scale and theoretically on a scale such as the Universe. We expect other civilizations to understand our math (http://www.math.dartmouth.edu/~carlp/PDF/extraterrestrial.pdf). Could it be that the designer of the Universe expects us to understand their math?

Chaos, which would be in a Universe that was random, would not be mathematic.

It's a universal "language" because math is made up of natural laws. If we can derive advanced, natural laws of the universe (Like pi, which is merely a ratio), then it demonstrates intelligence 2% more than apes.

As for the universe, it's slowly progressing to chaos, hence the constant rate of the increase of entropy in the universe.

[KC2UGV]

It is how we communicate and it is a universal language. See the links embedded in post #7 (a/k/a Post 575615). (https://forums.hamisland.net/showthread.php/27038-Is-the-Universe-Built-on-Math-This-Physicist-Believes-it-is?p=575615&viewfull=1#post575615)

It is a universal "language", because it is merely a description of natural laws. Prime numbers are prime numbers, irrespective of numerical base, or culture. Pi is Pi, no matter the circle you use, or the nation you live in.

[kb2vxa]

IZE... as usual:
"Even if the universe was pure math it doesn't mean there is a designer."
The universe is living proof of a designer, nobody, NOBODY could be so stupid as to design a pure math universe. Well, that is unless we're just numbers in somebody's computer in another universe.

That video was so full of TVI there's GOT to be a ham around here somewhere and when I find him I'm going to report him to the FCC!

[n2ize]

That video was so full of TVI there's GOT to be a ham around here somewhere and when I find him I'm going to report him to the FCC!

I've lived that scenario. Even when i was just a 14 year old SWL (no transmitters) and I put up a longwire antenna neighbors started asking me if my "shortwave set" was messing up the Merv Griffin show. "uh no... I only receive I don''t transmit" I would say, and they would point at a little piece of wire hung horizontally between the house and a tree and add..."yeah, but maybe that antenna of yours is pulling in some kinda interference".... Hmmm I would wonder, if my little piece of wire could pull in interference imagine what Con Ed must be doing with miles of wire hanging in the air and carrying a lotta juice too. Must be impossible to see Merv Griffin... Forget about later on when I actually started transmitting...first CB and later Amateur radio. Knock on door. Yeah ?? "Uh uh ah my TV has been acting funny al day yesterday and last night. Was it you ?"... "Hmm, doubtful since I haven't been on the air in over two weeks"... LOL.. Of course a few time the TVI complaints were legit. There was some local neighbor that would start ringing my phone to annoy me every time I got on 75 Meter Yay Em to chat with Timtron and the AM gangstas. I had to take the phone off the hook every time I would get on the air. Another lady who lived a few doors down the block took a different approach. She was nice about it. She calmly explained to me that she was hearing my voice coming through her telephone... She said however, "Please, its not that big an issue, don't worry about it or go off the air or anything". I told her I'd help her solve the problem. I referred her case to the phone company (Ma Bell at the time) and they put an RF filter on her line and I was no longer in her phone anymore. These days, with fibre optic cable I doubt it would be as problematic anymore... Nowadays I have to deal with interference from all the electronic junk in everyone houses these days... They finally got their revenge... :snicker:

[kb2vxa]

Once upon a time I had a scanner hooked up to a home made ground plane. The neighbor lady came over complaining of TVI so OK, tell me about the TV. It was a 12" B&W portable in the basement with rabbit ears... hmm. I showed her along the coax to the scanner happily chattering away pointing out it has no mic and doesn't transmit. Cut to the chase: "Well, it's an ANTENNA isn't it?" Ooout... ooouuut... OOOUUUT!!!

A friend put up his scanner antenna and as he was finishing a neighbor walked over asking what it was. "It's an old Polish charm to ward off evil spirits."

One of my first shortwave receivers was the chassis of an AM/SW radio I scrounged from a dead floor model B&W TV/radio/phono combo in the scrap pile behind a local radio & TV store. BTW I ended up working there in the end days of the TV repair business. It worked rather well hooked up to a wire between the trees in my back yard and a 6X9 oval car radio speaker in a cigar box. I couldn't listen above some frequency or other during TV prime time, CBS was THE network and it clobbered the heck out of channel 2 in the living room. It was the transformer version of the All American 5 that used a pentagrid converter and the LO was going up the spout and radiating into the TV antenna on the roof. My next rig had no problems, a National NC-173.

When it comes to oddball RFI stories I'm like Jimmy Durante with a radio; I got a million of 'em. Hot cha cha cha! (I have a schnoz too, but not THAT big.)

[suddenseer]

When Gaia created this mess, She purposely left out the password. Maybe She is waiting for one of us to figgure (sic) it out. Maybe math was built from careful observation of the universe. My Dad is a Freemason, or something like that. He knows of "sacred geometry", or such. I asked him what the sine, or cosine of 45 deg. was, he gave me 'that look'. I have a calculator, and know how to use it. I still cannot balance my checkbook to the penny.

"How can I be overdrawn when I still have checks?"

[WØTKX]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/30000/0000/200/30222/30222.strip.zoom.gif