View Full Version : Would like your opinions and experiences.
Devie and i have tossed around ideas on where to move for years. Its not just Vegas, but the country itself is growing further away from the kind of place that people like us want to try growing old in. Its just not safe to do so, and culturally, it is starting to feel less and less like home. We were working on everything from Boulder City, which is right outside of town here, to Maine, Colorado, coastal California, etc, etc. But in the last couple of years, we have become so disillusioned with the direction here that we are now seriously researching the big push. Giving it all up and becoming citizens of another country abroad. One important note, we have very little family or emotional ties to the states, we are free thinking, explorative types who want to call a new place home, immerse ourselves in the culture wholly and will likely never return. This decision is based in deduction and a desire to shift gears for good rather than on impulsive actions based on childish frustration. We don't work like that. We already know of many places that wouldn't work for us, but we are open to learn new things about them that could change our minds.
This is not a spur of the moment thing, we have given it enough thought to present it to outside people for opinion. I just want to know what places you guys have been, what was your impression, what do you know, etc. We are absorbing info on numerous places at the moment, once we narrow it down to a few, we will study the living hell out of it to learn every possible detail we can think of that we need to know about...then fly off and visit the area of that country we are thinking of living in to see how it feels. Our process of 'why' we want to leave this country for good is decided, we are just looking for ideas on where. We have no problem with socialized medicine and schooling, new language and higher taxes (up to 50% of your income in some places). Different food and climate, pace of life, things to do, being the outsider...not a problem, we are very adaptive and fluid and learn quickly. We stay out of trouble, live small and quietly, we are friendly and watchful at the same time. We have absolutely NO desire to go somewhere and try to make it a "Little America", complain about how things 'back home' are bigger or better, etc. No desire to go and be disappointed because we cant get that massive 6 bedroom house and monster truck like we can in the states. We want to live simply, organic and peaceful, grow our own food and raise a few chickens and detach from the materialistic lifestyle. We basically wont be trouble. Also, very importantly, we are patient. We understand that this could take quite a bit of time, money and sacrifice. We are happy to do it. We have a nice house on good property, two new cars and excellent credit, clean criminal record, both over 40, both have current passports and will be cleaning up our tax situation very soon. There will be no tethers, old or new. Above all else, as Bilbo said...i think we are quite ready for another adventure! :yes:
I would love your thoughts. Thanks. :)
By the way...ham radio WILL be factored in. No exception!
WØTKX
11-28-2013, 08:07 AM
If I was gonna do this, and I've thought about it, there would be a few places.
Canada:
It would be easier to assimilate into the culture.
Becoming a citizen is a process there, I have checked.
Visiting the states for family and friends is easier.
Australia:
For similar reasons as Canada.
ALMOST did do this in the mid-90's.
Had a guest worker permit and a job.
Chickened out, oh well. OZ folks are terrific.
Northern Europe:
Netherlands, Sweden, Norway in particular.
Excellent culture and decent government.
Think this might be a great choice for you two.
Germany:
Getting work there might be the easiest.
Dunno about the music biz tho.
Gang buster technology based economy.
VE7MGF
11-28-2013, 08:36 AM
we have bacon AND cookies:dance:
PA5COR
11-28-2013, 10:33 AM
We have bacon and cookies too ;)
Don't b fooled by the 50% taxes here, lots of things are subsidized depending on what you make, from my 105 euro healthcare premium i pay i get 85 back in subsidizing, and my net income is over 2K a month.
Rent is mostly subsidized as well depending on income and rent you pay, tax deductions for work etc will lower that 50% even more.
Have a good look around, personally i've been in most European countries, and would not pick the U.K.
Germany, yes, France yes, Netherlands yes, Denmark, Finland Sweden yes.
Healthcare in the Eu certainly in the named yes countries is excellent, lots of tradition and culture to be found, distances in the EU are mostly small, and excellent roads or transport available.
Crime is very low in these countries, certainly violent crime.
In the Netherlands 50.000 US ( ex) citizens live and work here, easy to find access to them and organisations.
http://thehague.usembassy.gov/living/working.html
Have a look around on the ex pat sites that are rife on the net, most Dutch speak English, so no problems there.
One of my gunclub members is from the USA that came to live here and likes it quite well.
But my country is just one of many to look at, and a certain prejudice from my side is not to be overlooked.
Good luck with your choices you have to look at.
We dont do bacon, but cookies are a consideration.
We have so far narrowed it down to several, but are looking to add a few more for variety. The UK was the first area we started looking at a while back, but ruled it out because of crime across the countryside and various other reasons...just not doing well from what we can see, even though its my family lineage and i would love to reconnect, i guess we can visit often and try not to get stabbed to death. But Sweden was right near the top. From what we've examined so far, they match us quite well. My drummer is from Germany so im going to ask him a bunch of questions about that. He says its great, but there is also a lot of racial crime and Skinheads over there who are fiercely nationalistic, my wife is Asian, i dont want to have to die in the street defending her...well, i would prefer we dont have to do that to begin with. Other than that, i hear good things. I just have to wait since he is currently on tour over there with the BeeGees show.
Iceland, New Zealand, Canada, Costa Rica, Various Pacific island nations (minus PNG), South Korea, Philippines, Denmark, Austria, Belgium, Norway, Finland, Portugal was the latest on the research train, Spain is next, France, Germany, Honduras, Netherlands (good info, Cor, i was hoping you would chime in, i may ask you for more detail later)...all getting a good look.
We want to learn a new language as its just the polite thing to do and makes life SO much easier on the ex-pat, but an english-speaking population is a great help while we acclimate, and most seem to know it. The things we really prefer to have is good healthcare...higher taxes to subsidize this is understandable and fine by us. Clean. Liberal politics for the most part and a healthy respect for the land, we dont want to live in a Yeehaw militaristic state anymore, or destroys its own resources because it can...like here. Culture and history...makes EU really stand out, this is something i really want. A fairly healthy economy, we will likely need jobs until we can plant ourselves and start our business...not to mention the entire process of planting ourselves so we can actually be allowed to start. And a good vibe, we want to love where we wake up every day. Quite a few other factors, but these are the main ones. Oh, and education is important too. Not really for us so much, and we dont have any small kids, but its a good indicator of how the population is. Educated kids means smarter, more well-adjusted adults to live and work around. Meaning less dipshit, Walmart mouthbreathers with too many guns acting like idiots and screaming about things they didnt bother to learn anything about. Cant take that shit anymore, and its getting worse, but i digress.
Oh, and we have our kitties too. They go or we dont go. Thats important and may rule out one or two on that list.
And thank you guys, ill take all the info you want to send, it helps.
If my friend and family is any indication, England is a great place to be. My friend had an American band and toured England for a few years. Said the Brits like to hear American bands play. Dunno if he was BSing, but his boss said he'd done 2 or 3 years touring there and had the postcards to prove it.
Personally, I've always wanted to check into the UK, Germany and France to see a bit of my heritage. Also, after reading so much about it, I hope to see Israel someday.
VE7DCW
11-28-2013, 11:19 PM
we have bacon AND cookies:dance:
As Mike said...... we do have bacon and cookies but we also have have a medical system the envy of the world.....and none of the political polarization and nonsense that seems to have stagnated the U.S.
And if you want to learn another language,you can study French,the other official Canadian language.....(thanks to Quebec)
Adam,you have learned a fair bit about life in this country,and I would help you out in any way possible if you decide to come to Canada.......the least I could do.....:-D
n6hcm
11-29-2013, 04:54 AM
Have a good look around, personally i've been in most European countries, and would not pick the U.K.
i agree. while the culture availability in the uk would be attractive to an american, it is also like america in too many other ways to be a place i'd want to move to. despite a significant career in information technology and a newly-minted masters degree (may 2014), the uk is one of the places where i would make *less* money.
i could be happy in most western european countries.
age is an important factor. as an immigrant i am not welcome in new zealand (unless i had piles of cash) because their points system for immigration puts those over 50 years old at a disadvantage (i just turned 51 in september).
lived in australia decades ago. i'd choose melbourne but am not sure i'd be welcome.
repatriating my critters is a requirement, and both oz and nz have significant quarantine regimes.
Do the needful. Move to India.
PA5COR
11-29-2013, 12:54 PM
No problem, it is your choice to make where to go tyo, if i can help answering some Q's then i will do anything i can and without bias.
Bringing cats/dogs is not much of a problem if they have the right shots and a checkup.
Don't decide too fast it is a large step to make, and you actually might like our social democratic system with it's perks....i warned you ;)
n2ize
11-29-2013, 07:03 PM
Devie and i have tossed around ideas on where to move for years. Its not just Vegas, but the country itself is growing further away from the kind of place that people like us want to try growing old in. Its just not safe to do so, and culturally, it is starting to feel less and less like home. We were working on everything from Boulder City, which is right outside of town here, to Maine, Colorado, coastal California, etc, etc. But in the last couple of years, we have become so disillusioned with the direction here that we are now seriously researching the big push. Giving it all up and becoming citizens of another country abroad. One important note, we have very little family or emotional ties to the states, we are free thinking, explorative types who want to call a new place home, immerse ourselves in the culture wholly and will likely never return. This decision is based in deduction and a desire to shift gears for good rather than on impulsive actions based on childish frustration. We don't work like that. We already know of many places that wouldn't work for us, but we are open to learn new things about them that could change our minds.
This is not a spur of the moment thing, we have given it enough thought to present it to outside people for opinion. I just want to know what places you guys have been, what was your impression, what do you know, etc. We are absorbing info on numerous places at the moment, once we narrow it down to a few, we will study the living hell out of it to learn every possible detail we can think of that we need to know about...then fly off and visit the area of that country we are thinking of living in to see how it feels. Our process of 'why' we want to leave this country for good is decided, we are just looking for ideas on where. We have no problem with socialized medicine and schooling, new language and higher taxes (up to 50% of your income in some places). Different food and climate, pace of life, things to do, being the outsider...not a problem, we are very adaptive and fluid and learn quickly. We stay out of trouble, live small and quietly, we are friendly and watchful at the same time. We have absolutely NO desire to go somewhere and try to make it a "Little America", complain about how things 'back home' are bigger or better, etc. No desire to go and be disappointed because we cant get that massive 6 bedroom house and monster truck like we can in the states. We want to live simply, organic and peaceful, grow our own food and raise a few chickens and detach from the materialistic lifestyle. We basically wont be trouble. Also, very importantly, we are patient. We understand that this could take quite a bit of time, money and sacrifice. We are happy to do it. We have a nice house on good property, two new cars and excellent credit, clean criminal record, both over 40, both have current passports and will be cleaning up our tax situation very soon. There will be no tethers, old or new. Above all else, as Bilbo said...i think we are quite ready for another adventure! :yes:
I would love your thoughts. Thanks. :)
By the way...ham radio WILL be factored in. No exception!
I am in a similar situation. I want to move up into Canada's Yukon territory. Within a few years I will know if it will be feasible for me to do so. If I do move there I will be coming in as a Cheechako (a tenderfoot) until I assimilate into the area. The hardest part will be leaving the NYC area which is the land I grew up in and that I love.
KK4AMI
11-30-2013, 04:25 PM
Devie and i have tossed around ideas on where to move for years. Its not just Vegas, but the country itself is growing further away from the kind of place that people like us want to try growing old in. Its just not safe to do so, and culturally, it is starting to feel less and less like home. We were working on everything from Boulder City, which is right outside of town here, to Maine, Colorado, coastal California, etc, etc. But in the last couple of years, we have become so disillusioned with the direction here that we are now seriously researching the big push. Giving it all up and becoming citizens of another country abroad. One important note, we have very little family or emotional ties to the states, we are free thinking, explorative types who want to call a new place home, immerse ourselves in the culture wholly and will likely never return. This decision is based in deduction and a desire to shift gears for good rather than on impulsive actions based on childish frustration. We don't work like that. We already know of many places that wouldn't work for us, but we are open to learn new things about them that could change our minds.
This is not a spur of the moment thing, we have given it enough thought to present it to outside people for opinion. I just want to know what places you guys have been, what was your impression, what do you know, etc. We are absorbing info on numerous places at the moment, once we narrow it down to a few, we will study the living hell out of it to learn every possible detail we can think of that we need to know about...then fly off and visit the area of that country we are thinking of living in to see how it feels. Our process of 'why' we want to leave this country for good is decided, we are just looking for ideas on where. We have no problem with socialized medicine and schooling, new language and higher taxes (up to 50% of your income in some places). Different food and climate, pace of life, things to do, being the outsider...not a problem, we are very adaptive and fluid and learn quickly. We stay out of trouble, live small and quietly, we are friendly and watchful at the same time. We have absolutely NO desire to go somewhere and try to make it a "Little America", complain about how things 'back home' are bigger or better, etc. No desire to go and be disappointed because we cant get that massive 6 bedroom house and monster truck like we can in the states. We want to live simply, organic and peaceful, grow our own food and raise a few chickens and detach from the materialistic lifestyle. We basically wont be trouble. Also, very importantly, we are patient. We understand that this could take quite a bit of time, money and sacrifice. We are happy to do it. We have a nice house on good property, two new cars and excellent credit, clean criminal record, both over 40, both have current passports and will be cleaning up our tax situation very soon. There will be no tethers, old or new. Above all else, as Bilbo said...i think we are quite ready for another adventure! :yes:
I would love your thoughts. Thanks. :)
By the way...ham radio WILL be factored in. No exception!
You have a lot of particulars. I'd make a list of all the things you don't like about where you are living now and find a place that eliminates as many of your dislikes as possible. You will have issues immigrating to some countries. They will want to know you have a job lined up in that country or a visible means of support. I guess you can get your social security checks sent overseas as an Expat, but I'm not sure what happens when you change citizenship. My brother has a Japanese wife and worked in Japan for 20 years. When he moved back to the US (Florida), he apparently can still get SS, because they have an exchange agreement with Japan. By the way, he finally left Japan because he thought they were a bunch of Xenophobes.
Look all over the US. There are "liberal" holes (per your description) all over the place that should suit your needs, especially in the Northeast. In the long run, your moving costs should be cheaper. Putting your cats into quarantine ain't cheap either. I hate to brag, but Charlottesville, VA. seems to fit the bill perfectly for you.
PS= There are a lot of Expat sites on the Internet that talk about what it's like living in various foreign countries
KB3LAZ
11-30-2013, 05:23 PM
I suppose it would depend on where you go but its not all roses in other countries either. It may seem so at first but after you spend some time in another country you find yourself bitching about the same old same old. The politics suck no matter where you end up. Assimilation is a pain in the ass. Cultural conflicts are high, particularly if it is a 180 from what you would consider normal. More so if it is a country that you do not speak the language naively, etc.
Also, you may find that your skill set from back home means absolutely dick when you move to another country. At least was my case.
As for citizenship, that is a ride of its own. Residency, at least for me was easy.
YMMV but home is home and you will grow to miss it.
Could I move to Canada or Australia and be happy, likely. England, or the UK in general, maybe. But living in the EU for a lifetime, no. I would suggest first taking a few weeks vacation, then maybe spending a a summer and working in the country of interest. If you are still dead set on the idea, maybe a two year work permit. Then, and only then if you could see yourself living there forever, go for it. However, you may just be surprised how similar things really are when it comes to what is irritating. Also, how things can be very different when it comes to comfort levels.
Being in a rush to wash your hands of what you may think is a pain in the ass may just irritate you to no end within a few years. Not trying to dissuade you, mind you. Just take it step at a time.
You have a lot of particulars. I'd make a list of all the things you don't like about where you are living now and find a place that eliminates as many of your dislikes as possible. You will have issues immigrating to some countries. They will want to know you have a job lined up in that country or a visible means of support. I guess you can get your social security checks sent overseas as an Expat, but I'm not sure what happens when you change citizenship. My brother has a Japanese wife and worked in Japan for 20 years. When he moved back to the US (Florida), he apparently can still get SS, because they have an exchange agreement with Japan. By the way, he finally left Japan because he thought they were a bunch of Xenophobes.
Look all over the US. There are "liberal" holes (per your description) all over the place that should suit your needs, especially in the Northeast. In the long run, your moving costs should be cheaper. Putting your cats into quarantine ain't cheap either. I hate to brag, but Charlottesville, VA. seems to fit the bill perfectly for you.
PS= There are a lot of Expat sites on the Internet that talk about what it's like living in various foreign countries
We do have a lot of particulars because we know we can find them in a number of places...we arent desperate at this point, so time is on our side. Trust me, i've lived in "conservative holes" too. I say 'liberal' not based on the image of "libs" you may have of dreadlocked, patchoulli wafting hippies on the street boycotting everything that moves, yelling about the kind of shoes im wearing and why we are part of the problem...thats why we removed Portland, OR pretty quickly from our list. The vibe seems cool, the people nice, etc...but it just struck us as trying too hard to be...liberal. Very hipster, loudly proclaiming weirdness when a truly weird and cool city shouldnt have to do this. We are more of the weird old, liberal country folks that like to let people live their life their way. We just want to be away from the opposite...the moustachioed, monster truck assholes who just cant seem to keep their snarky, angry opinions...about everything...to those who actually want to hear it. But Vegas has so much more about it to hate. First, the entire city hates eachother, thats well known...even written about in the local papers. Nobody here is your friend, polite, nice, have good intentions, etc. And if they are, they are out of place, keep to themselves and are making big plans for getting the fuck right outta here! Like...us. :) Vegas gets worse every year, and its not just us, we bought this great house 3 years ago. Great view, low payments, lots of room...the city is like a prison yard from one end to the other. The recession hit here and these materialistic dummies didnt know how to handle it. making a list of what we dont like is no good, it would be a short one...1) Vegas. Thats what would be on it. :lol:
The kind of liberal place we like are in regards to the way it approaches natural beauty, conservation, lack of a huge ego, lots of outdoor things to do and friendly folks. Friendly to anyone, not just other white, Christian, conservative folks (like our current neighborhood). We are taking our time with this.
I suppose it would depend on where you go but its not all roses in other countries either. It may seem so at first but after you spend some time in another country you find yourself bitching about the same old same old. The politics suck no matter where you end up. Assimilation is a pain in the ass. Cultural conflicts are high, particularly if it is a 180 from what you would consider normal. More so if it is a country that you do not speak the language naively, etc.
Also, you may find that your skill set from back home means absolutely dick when you move to another country. At least was my case.
As for citizenship, that is a ride of its own. Residency, at least for me was easy.
YMMV but home is home and you will grow to miss it.
Could I move to Canada or Australia and be happy, likely. England, or the UK in general, maybe. But living in the EU for a lifetime, no. I would suggest first taking a few weeks vacation, then maybe spending a a summer and working in the country of interest. If you are still dead set on the idea, maybe a two year work permit. Then, and only then if you could see yourself living there forever, go for it. However, you may just be surprised how similar things really are when it comes to what is irritating. Also, how things can be very different when it comes to comfort levels.
Being in a rush to wash your hands of what you may think is a pain in the ass may just irritate you to no end within a few years. Not trying to dissuade you, mind you. Just take it step at a time.
I was hoping you would show up and offer your opinion since you are a fairly new ex-pat as well.
We like hearing this kind of info, all we can find online are either tourist videos and sites telling us how great a place is when i know damn well they have a neo-Nazi problem and just got over a civil war. Or from some guy holed up in his apartment who hates everything and appears to have ingrained personality issues to begin with. Like i posted before, we are flexible and can bend with the changes. I sincerely dont think there is a "perfect" place, but if we can find a place where the cool outweighs the suck, we can deal with the rest. My wife has lived in numerous places. The last one overseas was Korea, she went with her boyfriend at the time and despite all the challenges, she would have had the time of her life if it wasnt for his downer ass always causing conflict because it wasnt what he was used to. I am very amiable and quite streetwise, but we pick up things quickly and are careful not to be rude.
Politics and healthcare are a focus. If they are more like the US, then bugger that shit! The monster under the bed is based in the US. I feel like they absolutely hate our guts and view us as nothing more than a bunch of 9v batteries.
"YMMV but home is home and you will grow to miss it."
Thats an important thing to note...we are home wherever we are. We are weird people. No family, no real friend base that we cant part with. People like us, but we arent close, community minded people, very pleasant loners.:) We dont hang out with anyone because we dont plant roots that deeply. We love certain parts of the US, but i dont think we would miss it to the point of being home sick...i have lived all over the US and have never known what home sick was. I am absolutely clueless to it. We are both like this so i think we may be ok there. Also, my skill set is flexible. I dont expect to make a living playing bass. :lol: I have quite a few other skills, we can make it work somehow. Other people do, im sure we can figure it out.
"Could I move to Canada or Australia and be happy, likely. England, or the UK in general, maybe. But living in the EU for a lifetime, no. I would suggest first taking a few weeks vacation, then maybe spending a a summer and working in the country of interest. If you are still dead set on the idea, maybe a two year work permit. Then, and only then if you could see yourself living there forever, go for it. However, you may just be surprised how similar things really are when it comes to what is irritating. Also, how things can be very different when it comes to comfort levels."
All good advice. We were thinking the same thing. Going back to the root-planting thing, it would be foolish of us to think we have it all figured out, only to find we overlooked or discovered some major flaws in the system of where we ended up and are now stuck. Yes, a few trips would be in order just to get a feel for it. And by all means, learn the language! :yes: We get that here in town a lot. Folks come from other countries and dont speak a lick of English. Thats fine if you are at least being polite and trying to communicate, but instead, they get indignant and frustrated that we dont know Ingabalesackandadickalese. We ruled out the UK because they have a few issues we dont want to take on right now. Australia seems cool, but it may not be for us. Canada looks really good, however (Minus Montreal and QC).
As mentioned in the first post, its all about steps. We dont like to make mistakes, especially big ones. We take our time and never rush because we have childish frustrations. The decision to leave has taken a few years up to this point. But Vegas...we're done!
Thanks for jumping in, i was hoping to hear from you guys. This helps. :)
My wife made the suggestion last night that we should press forward with moving east to Maine first, as originally planned, then see what we want to do. I was just recently incorporated and we plan to start our internet business. We have our business advisor and tax people already in place, and lots of business owner friends who have been successful, ready to help.
I think she is smart...and right. We may do the Canada/US dual citizenship for now...even though it would be more of a tax challenge. I know Canada has their own issues, but i have a lot of Canadian friends who can help, as well as being very proud of Canada. They love it. Learning French is fine, they already speak perfect English up there. The town i was born in (far norther Maine) speaks French too and is right on the border. The economy and taxes in maine, as well as the winters, are a real bastid! We know this and we are prepared for that. We will be going with some capital, good credit, a game plan and emotional flexibility to get started. I grew up in Alaska for crissakes! :lol:
Maine is like a foreign country in many ways...looks like Sweden, taxed like the UK, low crime rate like many EU nations, a very independant and rebellious population. We need to keep our international options open. This may be a good idea to go there for a year or two and keep looking east. It may be a good idea since we are already citizens, my wife lived there and loved it, my birth certificate was issued there. The idea is to live there and keep an eye on the nations we are interested in over the next couple of years to watch for trends. If it stays good or even improves, and our nation continues down the toilet, we will be ready to jump.
Its all about timing. If this country gets REALLY bad, other nations may slam the door as they have enough immigration issues of their own to deal with, that and they may have a slight fugyou to the US based on how dickish we've been acting to the rest of the world...lots of resentment out there. Its all about money and prepardeness, an abundance of both will make any transition a bit smoother.
I read these thread responses to my wife at night, any further info or ideas we may not have thought of are always welcomed.
KG4NEL
11-30-2013, 08:22 PM
I love the idea of living in another country, but I do somewhat question the motives. I'm from an entirely different generation, so maybe I can't see the same things, but any place is going to have long-term change if you look at a large enough time scale.
Personally, I've found I've been happiest in college towns, or surrounding communities...I happen to be in one of about the 3 counties in NC that I could survive in :yum: Frankly, I couldn't care less what the other 97 counties do, nevermind what loonies in other states do.
America is the best country in the world and you should have your citizenship revoked for even thinking about moving to another. But if you really want to go live with a bunch of effeminate liberal socialist rat-bastids, consider Iceland. With the world being incapable of coming to a consensus on climate change, it might make some sense. The more northern countries could actually benefit from the warming trend.
KK4AMI
11-30-2013, 09:24 PM
Personally, I've found I've been happiest in college towns, or surrounding communities...I happen to be in one of about the 3 counties in NC that I could survive in :yum: Frankly, I couldn't care less what the other 97 counties do, nevermind what loonies in other states do.
I second the college town idea and once again bring up a place like Charlottesville. We have our political differences, but we limit it to academic discussions only. As a southern town, the locals seem rather reserved and don't believe in airing their politics and religion publicly. It amazes me to see rednecks and collegiate types get along together but they seem to. We are also pretty multi-ethnic for a backwoods town. Really, the hardest thing to find here are "Southerners". If I want to exercise my political ideology, I gotta come here!
PS- I don't know about you guys, but everytime I add a year chronologically, I have to add a degree Fahrenheit to the minimum temperature I can stand. Maine when I was 20, sure bring it on.
KB3LAZ
11-30-2013, 09:35 PM
I was hoping you would show up and offer your opinion since you are a fairly new ex-pat as well.
We like hearing this kind of info, all we can find online are either tourist videos and sites telling us how great a place is when i know damn well they have a neo-Nazi problem and just got over a civil war. Or from some guy holed up in his apartment who hates everything and appears to have ingrained personality issues to begin with. Like i posted before, we are flexible and can bend with the changes. I sincerely dont think there is a "perfect" place, but if we can find a place where the cool outweighs the suck, we can deal with the rest. My wife has lived in numerous places. The last one overseas was Korea, she went with her boyfriend at the time and despite all the challenges, she would have had the time of her life if it wasnt for his downer ass always causing conflict because it wasnt what he was used to. I am very amiable and quite streetwise, but we pick up things quickly and are careful not to be rude.
Politics and healthcare are a focus. If they are more like the US, then bugger that shit! The monster under the bed is based in the US. I feel like they absolutely hate our guts and view us as nothing more than a bunch of 9v batteries.
"YMMV but home is home and you will grow to miss it."
Thats an important thing to note...we are home wherever we are. We are weird people. No family, no real friend base that we cant part with. People like us, but we arent close, community minded people, very pleasant loners.:) We dont hang out with anyone because we dont plant roots that deeply. We love certain parts of the US, but i dont think we would miss it to the point of being home sick...i have lived all over the US and have never known what home sick was. I am absolutely clueless to it. We are both like this so i think we may be ok there. Also, my skill set is flexible. I dont expect to make a living playing bass. :lol: I have quite a few other skills, we can make it work somehow. Other people do, im sure we can figure it out.
"Could I move to Canada or Australia and be happy, likely. England, or the UK in general, maybe. But living in the EU for a lifetime, no. I would suggest first taking a few weeks vacation, then maybe spending a a summer and working in the country of interest. If you are still dead set on the idea, maybe a two year work permit. Then, and only then if you could see yourself living there forever, go for it. However, you may just be surprised how similar things really are when it comes to what is irritating. Also, how things can be very different when it comes to comfort levels."
All good advice. We were thinking the same thing. Going back to the root-planting thing, it would be foolish of us to think we have it all figured out, only to find we overlooked or discovered some major flaws in the system of where we ended up and are now stuck. Yes, a few trips would be in order just to get a feel for it. And by all means, learn the language! :yes: We get that here in town a lot. Folks come from other countries and dont speak a lick of English. Thats fine if you are at least being polite and trying to communicate, but instead, they get indignant and frustrated that we dont know Ingabalesackandadickalese. We ruled out the UK because they have a few issues we dont want to take on right now. Australia seems cool, but it may not be for us. Canada looks really good, however (Minus Montreal and QC).
As mentioned in the first post, its all about steps. We dont like to make mistakes, especially big ones. We take our time and never rush because we have childish frustrations. The decision to leave has taken a few years up to this point. But Vegas...we're done!
Thanks for jumping in, i was hoping to hear from you guys. This helps. :)
Sounds like you have good ideas. I didn't figure you'd rush into it. That being said, I suppose it is like having a child. No matter the amount of planing, you are never really prepared. That does not mean that it can't be a wonderful experience because it can.
As for the homesick thing. I figured something like that would come up. I guess I didn't really express myself well on that one. I realize that home is where the heart is or at least where you make it. Trust me, I have been through that. Home is with my wife as that is where I am happy. That aside, it isn't so much home that I miss, or even family as I am not that close with my own. Rather, it is the small stuff. Just very little things that add up over time. For me, food is a big thing. I love to cook and though I love to make and taste new things it is very difficult even to find ingredients that I am used to. Substitution is not always available, etc. Aside from that, the time table here is a real killer. Nothing is ever open. If not for that obstacle I think things would be at least 90% easier. Fortunately not many countries have a 4 hour lunch break where the entire country shuts down. A final aside on that note, the olfactory sense really is an amazing thing. Smells are very hard to get used to, and everywhere. Also, there are times when you catch a whiff of something that is vaguely familiar but you can't quite put your finger on it and it eats at you for weeks.
There are many things to contend with that are country specific that you may not ever have to deal with. Such is that in Spain the "official" language does change. Spanish, sure that is what people speak in most regions but there are regions where that is not the case and it is considered a last resort and comes of almost as offensive. Catalan is an obstacle all of its own and has variants. Not to mention the fact that it does come with A LOT of political backlash. That as well as Basque which is like nothing else ever heard...lol. Then there is the cost of housing, etc. Immigration problems here do led to political outrage and sometimes concern for safety as well. Again, nowhere is perfect.
There are more negatives but the focal point should not be only that which is a downer. On the upside, I have never felt unsafe in any region of Spain. Even in those where locals piss themselves. I don't think anyone here knows what a true ghetto is. The healthcare system is a plus, at least for me. I pay nearly nothing and get decent care without any hassle. The wheels do move slowly, however. Then again, that is the case with everything here. On average the people are great and accepting. In fact most of the few that are xenophobic are in fact transplants, ironic. The ability to take in culture is amazing as well. Not only because it is diverse but because other cultures are only a hop, skip, and jump away. The ability to broaden your horizons is limitless if only you are willing and for you, I highly doubt that will be a problem.
I have personally had the opportunity to experience Mediterranean life and to me it is odd (and that will never change). Aside from the three main cultures in Spain I have had the chance to experience Italy and France as well. Much of the same in Italy. France is yet another world. For awhile my wife and I had given thought to trying another country outside of the Med but still in the EU. However, she has a major desire to experience life in the USA. particularly in a colonial area as she is so use to being confine to the urban jungle. If I had to choose it would be either Ireland on the EU side or the Netherlands. Immigrating to the latter is not as easy as one may think, though. However, from what I have seen of the system, I support it. Taking cultural assimilation classes, etc. The med is not for me but I could try somewhere else one day.
All of that aside. You had mentioned the introverted apartment dweller type (forget the word if you move this way, you will never here it again. It is flat. :P). For a very long time I had myself convinced that I was that type. Wanting to be alone, left to my thoughts. It simply isn't me. I am not a social butterfly, by any means. However, I enjoy being around other people even if not while interacting with them. I think I first noticed that this was not part of my personality after exiting the airport. I just could not keep my eyes in place. Or my ears or nose for that matter. The new sights, sounds, smells, etc were just amazing to me. There was and still is just so much to take in and learn. Later on one learns that comparison to what one is used to is impossible. It isn't what you are used to and it never will be. At that point one must embrace that, and thus far I think I have done well.
The thing is, I simply was not exposed to people or such a way of life as a kid. Having had that opportunity I wouldn't trade it for the world. However, at heart, I am a simple country boy living in a city. Conflicting to say the least. Which is another reason that I try not to pass judgment because at times I wonder if I am frustrated with Spain or simply the fact that I am in the city. Anyway, having become an ESL teacher for a short period I learned to deal with people rather well. I also learned that you must first learn to teach and continue to learn while doing so. That however was merely a stepping stone as I am now only teaching English on the side. I work for a local private school at the middle school level with world culture class as well as maths and literature. Not something I would have ever seen myself doing. The self betterment opportunities just never end.
One unexpected thing that I have found, due to the lack of getting on well with my own family, is familial support and encouragement. That is a story unto itself.
What is my point, simply this: I have zero regrets having moved to Spain and would do it again if given the chance. Its not peaches and cream nor do I find it better than or equal to the home I left behind but it has been a hell of a ride that has forever changed my life for the better. I have opened up, learned so much, made new friends, became part of a new family, grown up, and so much more. In the end we may not find what we wish after embarking on a journey and we may even fail but we will have been better for trying. Give it a shot. If it does not work out, you can always return to what you know and try something else in the future.
PS: Sorry for the book and the skipping around. I simply put down what popped into my head as I thought of it.
America is the best country in the world and you should have your citizenship revoked for even thinking about moving to another. But if you really want to go live with a bunch of effeminate liberal socialist rat-bastids, consider Iceland. With the world being incapable of coming to a consensus on climate change, it might make some sense. The more northern countries could actually benefit from the warming trend.
Maybe you're right. Why would i want to give this up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xL8rE9DT4g
I second the college town idea and once again bring up a place like Charlottesville. We have our political differences, but we limit it to academic discussions only. As a southern town, the locals seem rather reserved and don't believe in airing their politics and religion publicly. It amazes me to see rednecks and collegiate types get along together but they seem to. We are also pretty multi-ethnic for a backwoods town. Really, the hardest thing to find here are "Southerners". If I want to exercise my political ideology, I gotta come here!
PS- I don't know about you guys, but everytime I add a year chronologically, I have to add a degree Fahrenheit to the minimum temperature I can stand. Maine when I was 20, sure bring it on.
I like Southerners. Southerners and i get along just fine because i dont start off with some perceived chip on my shoulder. I never start a conversation with slavery. Most Southern folks ive met have been cool right out of the gate. Everything you just said makes total sense to me. As for living in the south, i know for a fact that there are some great places down there, but my heart is inn the north. I am an unashamed Northern boy. :)
KK4AMI
12-01-2013, 06:50 AM
I like Southerners. Southerners and i get along just fine because i dont start off with some perceived chip on my shoulder. I never start a conversation with slavery. Most Southern folks ive met have been cool right out of the gate. Everything you just said makes total sense to me. As for living in the south, i know for a fact that there are some great places down there, but my heart is inn the north. I am an unashamed Northern boy. :)
That is fine. I married a Southern girl, so my ball and chain will never let me see north of the Mason Dixon again. You still have plenty of college towns to the North obviously. The College towns are usually small, not too culturally backward and artsy enough to keep your interest.
We have basically come to the most practical decision we could, Bethel, Maine.
Devie has already been there and it would cost very little to fly into Boston from here, drive up there and check it out. Its a ski resort town in the mountains with a small yet yearly economy. Very artistic, but not in a hipster kind of way, just organic Mainers, growing their vegetables and taking pictures of plants...boring folks, just how we like it. :)
Here are a few links....
http://www.bethelmaine.com/
http://www.visitmaine.com/region/lakes/bethel/
http://www.bethelmaine.org/Pages/index
KK4AMI
12-01-2013, 09:10 AM
Bethel looks great. Just remember everybody is going to get "old and infirm". You guys will be 45 minutes away from the closest hospital. :fever:
ka4dpo
12-01-2013, 12:09 PM
If you don't mind heat and humidity there are plenty of places in Florida and South Carolina that meet your requirements. If you don't mind cold then New Hampshire and Maine can provide what you're looking for.
I have several friends who retired in Euroupe (Belgium) and South America (Belize), and they all returned here within five years. The quality of life just wasn't what they expected and you have no protection under the law, especially in Belize because you are not a citizen.
I'm not sure the grass is really greener in Europe unless you are wealthy and can afford to live on the south coast of France. I suppose if you are endowed with a hundred million then the grass is green almost anywhere you go.
We had thought long and hard about moving to Las Vegas but people like you who live there made us rethink that idea and we decided to stay right here in northern Virginia. We have some good friends who live in Summerlin and are getting ready to sell and move to Reno. They have lived in Las Vegas for 25 years and like you, they no longer feel comfortable there.
K0RGR
12-01-2013, 01:22 PM
I actually like it here in Minnesota, except for the worst of the winter months. Then I want to be someplace much warmer, with a lot less ice. Maine has actually interested me, but I think Vermont looks even more inviting. I suspect you'll find rednecks in all of those locations, but it varies. I live in a fairly red corner of a blue state. The larger cities tend to be pretty liberal, but the rest of the state are all registered with the Tea Party. Unfortunately, you never know who you're talking to. so politics is not a topic for casual conversation here.
My travels overseas have been limited. Of the places I've been, I fell in love with Belgium, and I believe I would be happy there. They have mild winters, which is a consideration. They have the best highways I've ever seen - they are lit at night for one thing. And you get a mix of the ultra-modern and the ancient often side-by-side, in this 'capitol of Europe'. The only thing that would bother me would be the very high cost of beef, and it's relative scarcity. But, it's made up for with the fantastic vegetable dishes you find everywhere. And it would take a long time to try all of the Belgian beers.
I love Vancouver, Canada, and Winnipeg is one of prettiest cities I have seen. Vancouver is an ethnic melting pot, with people from all over the former British Empire having moved there. There is some feeling among the Canadians that they have been overrun, and I don't know how that would work for immigrants, but apparently they are good at handling immigrants or there wouldn't be so many.
I didn't find any place in central America that I'd care to live.
Bethel looks great. Just remember everybody is going to get "old and infirm". You guys will be 45 minutes away from the closest hospital. :fever:
Thats one of the first things we looked for. Theres a decent clinic in town and a few private practices, and a full scale hospital right next door in Rumford. :)
We are'nt playing around with health. We live healthy, eat right and excersize, but nobody is immune to everything, including injury. That was a factor.
If you don't mind heat and humidity there are plenty of places in Florida and South Carolina that meet your requirements. If you don't mind cold then New Hampshire and Maine can provide what you're looking for.
I have several friends who retired in Euroupe (Belgium) and South America (Belize), and they all returned here within five years. The quality of life just wasn't what they expected and you have no protection under the law, especially in Belize because you are not a citizen.
I'm not sure the grass is really greener in Europe unless you are wealthy and can afford to live on the south coast of France. I suppose if you are endowed with a hundred million then the grass is green almost anywhere you go.
We had thought long and hard about moving to Las Vegas but people like you who live there made us rethink that idea and we decided to stay right here in northern Virginia. We have some good friends who live in Summerlin and are getting ready to sell and move to Reno. They have lived in Las Vegas for 25 years and like you, they no longer feel comfortable there.
Exactly!
Believe me when i say our absolute disdain for this place is a bummer. We dont want to have to put ourselves through this, its not whimsy. Like i mentioned before, we bought a house, cars, we have friends here, its a central city, i get to be a rock star on a huge stage in the entertainment capital of the world with some amazing musicians...as my job! That job is the only reason we stay. My wife couldnt hate her job any more than she does, but the jobs are drying up here so she is stuck, believe me, she has been looking. Sure, you can go online and look up jobs in Vegas, but what folks dont realize is those are "juice jobs", meaning they go to people who know someone. Theres a big push to subjugate all workers here, Bring them under control and remove all benefits, remove every union and break the spirit. They are paying less and less, they have stopped all perks and incentives and have stripped down health insurance to joke status. The place is dying. One thing that i noticed over all else is how it used to be. I have been here long enough to know the difference, nearly 30 years. Once upon a time, i used to say "If you cant find a job in Vegas, you havent even left the house". You could get a job by yelling out the window saying you wanted one. I remember a day when casinos and off-Strip companies would try to entice good workers with all sorts of perks and a good work enviroment, these days? They dont give a FUCK! Upper management, themselves under attack, daily comes through and shits on everyone, trying to get them to quit so they can save a few bucks, or create negative situations to use against the workers so they can justify removing more of their hours, and rights, not even mentioning benefits. Its time to go and let this dangerous "Detroit of the Desert" die a miserable death. Its so toxic that it makes people physically ill!
We know we are out of here and thats settled. It just sucks that it has come to this. But on that same token, we look forward to the change. The return to a simple life is beyond exciting and happy for both of us. Reconnecting with a more natural enviroment, its what we've needed for years. When we vacation, we always go to sleepy little towns and simply unwind and chat with locals...thats all we do. We need to live like that all the time. By now, you can tell we've had enough.
Maybe you guys are right and that pulling up stakes and moving to another country may need a few more years to decide on, i think we are making the best choice for now, which brings me back to your points. We are done with heat and i have lived in deep humidity before...no thank you! We are definately cold weather folk. We both love New England, though im sure there are some really awesome places where you mentioned.
As for your friends, i applaud them and couldnt encourage them more. They are making the right choice. Whatever issues Reno has, its FAR better than here! Ive been there, its nice, and Tahoe is right up the hill. When someone is shot and killed there, it makes the news. Here? nah. And Summerlin is one of the nicer family areas, We actually enjoyed living there. The place we bought the house is the far NW side, tucked in between ghettos in a neighborhood full of angry, elitist, macho redneck/military/corrections officers and their fat, disrespectful kids...the worst that white people have to offer. Its basically quiet, save for the trucks, hot rods and Harleys roaring down the street as they head off to work at the base, casino or Indian Springs state prison up the road. We do our walks and bike ride at about 3am because most of them are either gone or passed out in front of the tv.
Ok...i think i screwed myself in getting that Las Vegas tourism industry job too. :lol:
I actually like it here in Minnesota, except for the worst of the winter months. Then I want to be someplace much warmer, with a lot less ice. Maine has actually interested me, but I think Vermont looks even more inviting. I suspect you'll find rednecks in all of those locations, but it varies. I live in a fairly red corner of a blue state. The larger cities tend to be pretty liberal, but the rest of the state are all registered with the Tea Party. Unfortunately, you never know who you're talking to. so politics is not a topic for casual conversation here.
My travels overseas have been limited. Of the places I've been, I fell in love with Belgium, and I believe I would be happy there. They have mild winters, which is a consideration. They have the best highways I've ever seen - they are lit at night for one thing. And you get a mix of the ultra-modern and the ancient often side-by-side, in this 'capitol of Europe'. The only thing that would bother me would be the very high cost of beef, and it's relative scarcity. But, it's made up for with the fantastic vegetable dishes you find everywhere. And it would take a long time to try all of the Belgian beers.
I love Vancouver, Canada, and Winnipeg is one of prettiest cities I have seen. Vancouver is an ethnic melting pot, with people from all over the former British Empire having moved there. There is some feeling among the Canadians that they have been overrun, and I don't know how that would work for immigrants, but apparently they are good at handling immigrants or there wouldn't be so many.
I didn't find any place in central America that I'd care to live.
We thought about Minnesota too, but it kind of fell down the list for us after comparison to the things we would like to be around more, that's all. Its seems like a decent enough place. Rednecks don't bother me if they are just being themselves and not trying too hard to prove something or have a chip on their shoulder. The same is said for ultra liberal activist types. WE are very liberal, those folks annoy us! Its not about how you live and believe for yourself, its how you project it on to others around you that makes me like you or not...and when a whole area of people are doing just that, it can be really good, or really bad. Encinitas, CA is one of those places of liberals that we like because they are all friendly, healthy and simply know how to chill and let you be who you are...whatever that may be. Other "liberal" places we've been to really got on my nerves because it was more about appearances than anything else. Sure, they believed what they were preaching, as do we, but back up off me, Junior!
The same goes the other way too. We've been to very religious, conservative towns where everyone was judgemental, uptight, suspicious and exclusive because we looked like out-of-towners who were going to threaten their way of life. Lots of posturing, guns and loud reminders that they love Jesus and if we didn't like it, there's the door...and we didnt say shit! On the other hand, we've been to places that were very right leaning, lots of churches and such, but the folks were nice and welcoming, they just felt strongly about their traditions...much like Maine. Maine is a very conservative place, even Bethel, but they connect with nature and art. I would also venture to guess many of them have a shotgun behind the door in their art studio. Gotta love Maine! :)
We want to visit Belgium if anything, we hear nothing but great things about it. We don't eat meat or alcohol so the beef and beer thing wouldn't be an issue, but good to hear on the veggies since i hear some places over there have trouble getting good veggies. I love ancient history, and Europe is chock full of that! Canada is on the list. One thing that i've learned from our research is the feeling of being overrun by immigrants...all countries have this complaint. And i hate to say it, but they all tend to mention the same type of immigrants they could use less of, and it isn't older, white American men with Polynesian wives. But an immigrant is an immigrant, and we would be two more that they didn't need.
We heard a lot of good things about C. Am, but we also ruled it out. Good input, thanks!
KG4CGC
12-01-2013, 10:12 PM
If you were a hardcore rightwing low information voter then Florida and South Carolina would be great for you. Our current and last governor are openly hostile to Obama and Obamacare and would rather eat glass than join the exchange. That and the fact that the best she can do is bring in companies like Amazon.con to hire people at minimum wage and call it a day.
People here vote for the Tea Party and then complain when the roads go to shit and police are at a minimum. I remind them that this is what they asked for but they have the memory of a goldfish. 30 seconds.
K7SGJ
12-02-2013, 10:43 AM
Wherever you guys end up, I wish you the best. Although we've never met, I think I've gotten some idea of the values and interests that you and your wife share. I feel your pain living in a large city. All of the noise, inconsiderate neighbors, yada yada yada, is why we moved into a rural community north of Phoenix. Unfortunately, after 20 years, the life out here is changing. People are moving out here and trying to bring their city ways with them, and fucking up the reason so many people have moved here, but this isn't about us.
When I read you original post and followed the discussion, here is what came to my mind. About an hour and a half north of us are several "artist" type towns that are very small, and have many of the things you two desire. Friendly and talented people that live a lifestyle that you have described. One is Jerome, which is a very old, history rich mining town on the side of a mountain. It must be very cool place to work and live. We go there often, and enjoy the people and really like seeing all the art. Although it is a tourist town now, there is a very high presence of talented artists from around the area. Another place is called Cornville, and it has many artists there as well, but is not very well traveled, and off the beaten path. Most of the people there put their work in stores in the Sedona area, as well as other high tourist traffic areas. There are potters, painters, photographers, glass and metal artists, and just about every other talent imaginable, and very friendly, too. These areas are some of the prettiest in the state.
Although Arizona isn't probably very high on the "we want to live there" list, the point is, that if you can find a community like these, in a place you like as far as climate and so forth goes, it would probably be a good fit. Small towns inhabited by artists exist everywhere, and they aren't inhabited by the old hippy dippy people of the 60s, although some are probably from that era. I know several people that live in these towns, and they share our idea of the way of the life we like to live, which sounds like yours, as well. Gardens, chickens, goats, (yes Carl, goats) and other critters, laid back, quiet, and nice and considerate folks for neighbors. If I had an artistic talent, and was 30 or 40 years younger, I would consider life in a place such as these.
At any rate, I wish you both well on the journey you and Devie are about to make; and hope that at the end of the road, you find all of your hopes and dreams.
KG4CGC
12-02-2013, 07:27 PM
For North Carolina consider Asheville (outskirts) and the Bat Cave, Chimney Rock and Lake Lure area (all on the same road).
Altitude and real Winters. You'll need a heavy duty 4WD vehicle for the Winter months. Artsy and touristy with all the small town charm and local escapes within just a couple of miles. Close to the Blue Ridge Parkway.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/ChimneyRockStitchresize.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/ChRoRS.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/DevilsHeadveticalRS.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/DevilsHeadRS.jpg
K0RGR
12-02-2013, 07:33 PM
We thought about Minnesota too, but it kind of fell down the list for us after comparison to the things we would like to be around more, that's all. Its seems like a decent enough place. Rednecks don't bother me if they are just being themselves and not trying too hard to prove something or have a chip on their shoulder.
We do have 'Minnesota Nice' here, and people do mostly avoid discussing politics and religion. Up here, you can ALWAYS discuss the weather! If it gets boring, wait about 15 minutes... Up here, I've met more college educated people who are also highly religious and very right wing than anywhere else. But it just doesn't come up. I'm usually sorry when it does because I find out that my friends and I agree on everything but nothing at the same time. Most people here are very polite - often to a fault. And, neighbors do everything they can to help each other.
We want to visit Belgium if anything, we hear nothing but great things about it. We don't eat meat or alcohol so the beef and beer thing wouldn't be an issue, but good to hear on the veggies since i hear some places over there have trouble getting good veggies. I love ancient history, and Europe is chock full of that!
I think Belgium is a great place for Americans who want to get acquainted with continental Europe. There's a book titled 'How to Speak Dutchified English' that you might find very helpful. When you learn how to pronounce the spellings of the Flemish/Dutch words, it becomes a great deal easier, because the sentence structure in Dutch and English have a lot of similarities. In the north of Belgium (Flanders) everything is labelled in both Flemish and French - and English is common, too. If you have any background in Latin languages and learn to pronounce the French words, between that and the Dutchified English, you are in good stead. English is a second language for most people in Belgium - the Flemish, French and German speakers often use English to talk to their fellow Belgians!
Across the border in Holland, it seems that everybody speaks better English than I do. These countries are where the British go for vacation, so it pays to know their language.
If you get to Belgium, go to Bastogne and see the American Monument. There are two of these in Belgium. A small monument in the center of Brussels commemorates Americans who liberated the city in WWI. The much larger one in Bastogne commemorates the American units who fought in the Battle of the Bulge. This thing looks like an NFL stadium. The museum next door is pretty amazing, too. I don't think I could find it on a map, but there is the ruin of a fairy tale castle not far to the west of Bastogne on a country road. Much of the castle's stone was taken to build the city next to it, but what's there is really unusual.
Bruges has the only Michelangelo statue to leave Italy in his lifetime, and the cathedrals are filled with works by the Flemish/Dutch masters. You will pass Roman ruins on your way there from Brussels. I think I'd like to be in either Antwerp near the Dutch border or in Brussels. They are both very lively metropolitan places, but you won't sleep at night if you stay downtown - too much noise.
n6hcm
12-03-2013, 03:07 AM
Personally, I've found I've been happiest in college towns, or surrounding communities...
this is something i'm almost counting on. i'm pretty sure i can't stay in sf once i take a librarian gig (it's the money thing: they'll want more than i'll get) and since i'm looking at academic librarianship the college town comes with the territory (more or less).
suddenseer
12-03-2013, 12:03 PM
You might consider Yellow Springs, Ohio. It is a sanctuary from the normal right wing madness that is the majority here. You could continue your art, and craft. You could even do the same venues, as there are several casinos within commuting distance. YS is a very tolerant community. Autos must stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk. They tend not to allow national chains to enter the community. They have several good head shops. My local headshop has been declared a public nuisance by the city, and must clos. Even though there has never been any police calls for fighting, or any other types of violence.
Dave Chappele has chosen to live here. I chatted with him at the local pizza place. He can walk around, and just get nods, and light chit chat, no autograph hounds because most people see him as another resident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Springs,_Ohio
KG4CGC
12-03-2013, 04:41 PM
A set of statistics to consider.
http://www.alternet.org/places-america-where-you-are-most-likely-be-arrested-marijuana
http://www.aclu-md.org/uploaded_files/0000/0470/aclu_marijuana_in_md_report_whitecover.pdf
n6hcm
12-04-2013, 04:36 AM
YS is a very tolerant community. Autos must stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk. They tend not to allow national chains to enter the community.
sounds rather a lot like san francisco ...
K7SGJ
12-04-2013, 10:35 AM
Adam, have you considered living next to a half way house for girls that don't go all the way?
Back to my post about Iceland for a moment. Police in Reykjavik recently shot and killed a mentally disturbed man and instead of shrugging it off as people would here, Icelanders were horrified and have entered into a national dialogue over it. Why, you wonder? Well, it turns out that this was the first time in the country's history that police there ever shot anyone. It seems that cops in Iceland normally go about their duty unarmed, which says a lot about Icelandic society.
And let it be known that Icelanders aren't anti-gun by any means; the population of the country is 325,000, while the number of registered firearms is 90,000. Plenty of guns available but people there just don't shoot each other.
Another advantage to Iceland, they have the world's best hot dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A6jarins_Beztu_Pylsur
My wife and I were there for a couple of days in the summer of 2012 and we ate there at least once a day!
It is actually rated as the 49th most popular restaurant (out of 252) in Reykjavik on Trip Advisor.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g189970-d1852122-Reviews-Baejarins_Beztu_Pylsur-Reykjavik_Capital_Region.html
I asked some of the locals how they deal with the winters in Iceland. The answer was pretty much that if you think it is cold, you're not dressed properly!
KG4NEL
12-04-2013, 05:21 PM
Adam, have you considered living next to a half way house for girls that don't go all the way?
I knew sororities that fit that description...
Wherever you guys end up, I wish you the best. Although we've never met, I think I've gotten some idea of the values and interests that you and your wife share. I feel your pain living in a large city. All of the noise, inconsiderate neighbors, yada yada yada, is why we moved into a rural community north of Phoenix. Unfortunately, after 20 years, the life out here is changing. People are moving out here and trying to bring their city ways with them, and fucking up the reason so many people have moved here, but this isn't about us.
When I read you original post and followed the discussion, here is what came to my mind. About an hour and a half north of us are several "artist" type towns that are very small, and have many of the things you two desire. Friendly and talented people that live a lifestyle that you have described. One is Jerome, which is a very old, history rich mining town on the side of a mountain. It must be very cool place to work and live. We go there often, and enjoy the people and really like seeing all the art. Although it is a tourist town now, there is a very high presence of talented artists from around the area. Another place is called Cornville, and it has many artists there as well, but is not very well traveled, and off the beaten path. Most of the people there put their work in stores in the Sedona area, as well as other high tourist traffic areas. There are potters, painters, photographers, glass and metal artists, and just about every other talent imaginable, and very friendly, too. These areas are some of the prettiest in the state.
Although Arizona isn't probably very high on the "we want to live there" list, the point is, that if you can find a community like these, in a place you like as far as climate and so forth goes, it would probably be a good fit. Small towns inhabited by artists exist everywhere, and they aren't inhabited by the old hippy dippy people of the 60s, although some are probably from that era. I know several people that live in these towns, and they share our idea of the way of the life we like to live, which sounds like yours, as well. Gardens, chickens, goats, (yes Carl, goats) and other critters, laid back, quiet, and nice and considerate folks for neighbors. If I had an artistic talent, and was 30 or 40 years younger, I would consider life in a place such as these.
At any rate, I wish you both well on the journey you and Devie are about to make; and hope that at the end of the road, you find all of your hopes and dreams.
Thanks Eddie. I think we are in the same boat, only difference being is i moved here in 1986 with my buddies as a drunk, hard partying 20 year old looking for females and a change of scenery from the ghetto in Anchorage (they had one, a small one, and we lived right in the middle of it). As a 47 year old married father of a grown son who no longer drinks, does drugs or eats poorly, it hit me how fucked up this place really is. But back in 86, it at least still had some of that old school swagger...Sinatra was at the Stardust, Watched jazz acts at the Landmark, jumped onstage and played with the Coasters at the Riviera, horn sections still played in the lounges and you could get a bag of cards and dice from the pit boss by simply asking...the Mob still ran the place, it was in their final stages, but they really made Vegas into the image we all used to have of it. And many still do, only to no longer find it when they come. But, you know....blah, blah, blah. :)
We know that the area you live in is great. One of the cooler ones in AZ. We have friends up there who are definately real hippie folks. Never a negative word, just their goats, chickens, beeswax candles and eachother...life is wonderful for them. They travelled around and found themselves there and have no plans to go anywhere else. The issue for us is that my wife is over living in the desert. I still kinda like it, but i love New England as does she. Maine still has a few stalwart rightwingers in place, but the folks there are slowly getting tired of them by accounts i am getting. Just went to a party last night for all the bands on our company roster. ran into one of our old keyboard players from the first incantation of our current band from 10 years ago. He is from Lincoln, Maine. Like all Mainers ive ever met, he loves his home state, misses it and frequently returns. We just chatted about Maine the whole time, music never really came up...in fact, he just got back from there. He knew the town we want to live in and has been there many times and confirmed it for us. An artsy, laid back, somewhat older ski resort town with history reaching back to the colonial times...i'd call it the front runner at this point!
I still think a roadie into AZ is in order...we want to get some pictures, buy some candles from Pete and Juwels, and i need to drop off this radio gear to you! Either way, i thank you for the well wishes and info.
Another advantage to Iceland, they have the world's best hot dogs.
I asked some of the locals how they deal with the winters in Iceland. The answer was pretty much that if you think it is cold, you're not dressed properly!
1) Hot dogs?? If i still ate those things, it would be worth the trip just to say i ate a hot dog in Iceland.
2) Bingo! They make clothes for the coldest enviroment. Its the heat that brings me down...there are no clothes to keep you cool past a certain point. The rest is the body coping with it.
For North Carolina consider Asheville (outskirts) and the Bat Cave, Chimney Rock and Lake Lure area (all on the same road).
Altitude and real Winters. You'll need a heavy duty 4WD vehicle for the Winter months. Artsy and touristy with all the small town charm and local escapes within just a couple of miles. Close to the Blue Ridge Parkway.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/ChimneyRockStitchresize.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/ChRoRS.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/DevilsHeadveticalRS.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/bebop5/DevilsHeadRS.jpg
Charles trumps with pictures!!
Nice job! :lol:
KG4CGC
12-04-2013, 07:01 PM
Charles trumps with pictures!!
Nice job! :lol:
And that was the one clear day of the year!
KG4NEL
12-04-2013, 08:27 PM
I have to go back there, all my Chimney Rock pics are actual 35mm photos, lulz
KG4CGC
12-04-2013, 08:35 PM
I have to go back there, all my Chimney Rock pics are actual 35mm photos, lulz
Island SE meet?
KG4NEL
12-04-2013, 08:42 PM
A homebrewing friend has been trying to get me down to Greenville to help drink his beer, so I can't guarantee what shape I'd be in if I came down...
:lol:
Come springtime I'll be itching for a roadtrip, though...
KG4CGC
12-04-2013, 08:47 PM
I'll be in Hickory in June.
If you want to hit Asheville in the Spring I've been wanting to do a ride back up there.
I love the idea of living in another country, but I do somewhat question the motives. I'm from an entirely different generation, so maybe I can't see the same things, but any place is going to have long-term change if you look at a large enough time scale.
Personally, I've found I've been happiest in college towns, or surrounding communities...I happen to be in one of about the 3 counties in NC that I could survive in :yum: Frankly, I couldn't care less what the other 97 counties do, nevermind what loonies in other states do.
I second the college town idea and once again bring up a place like Charlottesville. We have our political differences, but we limit it to academic discussions only. As a southern town, the locals seem rather reserved and don't believe in airing their politics and religion publicly. It amazes me to see rednecks and collegiate types get along together but they seem to. We are also pretty multi-ethnic for a backwoods town. Really, the hardest thing to find here are "Southerners". If I want to exercise my political ideology, I gotta come here!
PS- I don't know about you guys, but everytime I add a year chronologically, I have to add a degree Fahrenheit to the minimum temperature I can stand. Maine when I was 20, sure bring it on.
this is something i'm almost counting on. i'm pretty sure i can't stay in sf once i take a librarian gig (it's the money thing: they'll want more than i'll get) and since i'm looking at academic librarianship the college town comes with the territory (more or less).
Sounds to me like New Paltz, NY is pretty much what is being described here. SUNY New Paltz, not a big town, surrounded by mountains and still unspoiled. If Maine doesn't work out, or if you want a second place to look at, that might just be the ticket. It is a walking town and yet there are many things to do within a short drive.
Wherever you go, there you are. And that's where home is. Hope you find Nirvana and that special place. :yes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Downtown_New_Paltz,_NY.jpg/400px-Downtown_New_Paltz,_NY.jpg
http://www.hvmag.com/Hudson-Valley-Magazine/April-2010/It-Takes-a-Village/new-NewPaltz_101_7309.jpg
http://alfredo.octavio.net/files/aoctavio_mohonktower2.jpg
K7SGJ
12-05-2013, 09:42 AM
I'll be in Hickory in June.
If you want to hit Asheville in the Spring >snip
Sounds like a great beginning for a song.
I does sound like a Mac Davis or Gordon Lightfoot song...one of those early/mid-70's country tinged commercial songs.
KG4CGC
12-05-2013, 05:58 PM
OUR "rock" stations played this back in the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kAU3B9Pi_U
K7SGJ
12-05-2013, 07:49 PM
I does sound like a Mac Davis or Gordon Lightfoot song...one of those early/mid-70's country tinged commercial songs.
If it had a sad ending, I was thinking along the lines of Bobby Goldsboro, but pretty much parallel thoughts.
He was great for those. I must admit, i really like Gordon Lightfoot's music. What can i say.
K7SGJ
12-06-2013, 10:03 AM
He was great for those. I must admit, i really like Gordon Lightfoot's music. What can i say.
Me too. Always a good story in the song. If you could read my mind, you'd notice The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is a favorite of mine. I especially like to listen to it in the early morning rain, while I'm driving down Carefree Highway. Seriously, it's about ten miles from here.
I saw him on the tube a couple of days ago, and thought damn, he got old. Then I realized, so did I.
KG4CGC
12-06-2013, 03:12 PM
Me too. Always a good story in the song. If you could read my mind, you'd notice The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is a favorite of mine. I especially like to listen to it in the early morning rain, while I'm driving down Carefree Highway. Seriously, it's about ten miles from here.
I saw him on the tube a couple of days ago, and thought damn, he got old. Then I realized, so did I.
You should eat raisins and nuts. Or save them for Sunday?
People here vote for the Tea Party and then complain when the roads go to shit and police are at a minimum. I remind them that this is what they asked for but they have the memory of a goldfish. 30 seconds.
That's an insult to goldfish everywhere.
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