Possibly the Largest Typhoon Ever Recorded

[suddenseer]

I really feel horrible for the people in the path of this storm. It might produce winds that break highest recorded winds ever. I hope the weather folks are wrong.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/11/07/243736249/super-typhoon-haiyan-bears-down-on-philippines-years-most-powerful-storm

[K7SGJ]

Man that's a real pisser. I hope the Filipinos (and everyone else) there can hunker down and stay safe till it passes over the Islands.

[KG4CGC]

195 mph sustained winds with gusts up to 220-230. I don't think they're ready for that.
I don't think we'd be ready for something like that here.

My numbers are from what they are saying live on The Weather Channel.

[NQ6U]

195 mph sustained winds with gusts up to 220-230. I don't think they're ready for that.
I don't think we'd be ready for something like that here.

I don't think it's possible to be ready for that.

[KG4CGC]

I don't think it's possible to be ready for that.

If they zoned for concrete dome homes in Tornado Alley they would hold up but like I said before, toothpick homes is all that is allowed and that's simply a damn shame.

[NQ6U]

If they zoned for concrete dome homes in Tornado Alley they would hold up but like I said before, toothpick homes is all that is allowed and that's simply a damn shame.

Yeah, but even if the homes survive, the infrastructure that supports them won't.

[suddenseer]

Ive been poking around the net. It appears the fastest officially recorded wind speed was 231MPH. There was one claimed faster, but the instrument was found to be inaccurate after the recording. The estimated wind speed in an Oklahoma F5 tornado was over 300mph, but this was a satellite estimate many feet above the ground. If there is a verifiable anemometer around, this storm may beat the fastest ever wind.

[PA5COR]

Our 95 mile per hour storm a few weeks back was more then enough for me...
I hope they can find cover, damage will be severe, i doubt large buildings will escape undamaged...

[KG4CGC]

Yeah, but even if the homes survive, the infrastructure that supports them won't.

Some things won't but at least a large part of the power grid could be under ground. Here, new lines are going under ground and older ones are on a schedule (slow schedule) to be routed under ground.

[n2ize]

Some things won't but at least a large part of the power grid could be under ground. Here, new lines are going under ground and older ones are on a schedule (slow schedule) to be routed under ground.

Underground wiring has a whole different set of weak points and failures as you will soon discover. Above ground it better. And much less expensive to maintain.

[n2ize]

Yeah, but even if the homes survive, the infrastructure that supports them won't.

Vey few man made structures will survive that kind of a natural cycle.

[KG4CGC]

Underground wiring has a whole different set of weak points and failures as you will soon discover. Above ground it better. And much less expensive to maintain.

No. It is not better. Of course in New York, everything is just crammed together in a cluster so no matter what happens, you're screwed. New York really needs a sea wall and a rebuild of the 100 year old subway systems.

Here, everything is going under ground, just that's it's happening at a snail's pace if it isn't new. Every place is going to have a certain set of issues. More often than not, trees will grow into power lines and have to be removed. Not an issue with buried lines. Then there are Winter storms. Ice being the worst. Every single year you can see cities on the newscasts where the ice coated trees have taken down miles and miles of line putting millions of people in the cold and dark not to mention the structure fires started when it plays out like this.
Then there's the issue of those same ice coated trees falling on those toothpick houses.

[W7XF]

This Cat5+ makes Katrina look like a gentle breeze!! Hopefully the won't be much carnage. Positive juju going out to the Filipinos./

[KG4CGC]

Looking for updates on TWC but they're playing Strangest Weather reruns until 4am EST.
This site might be helpful.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/super-typhoon-haiyan-a-serious/19561621

[suddenseer]

Looks like it is even affecting Guam. I hope Bubba, and XYL are OK. I don't recall ever seeing a storm of this magnitude. According to the AP about 3/4 of a million people where evacuated. When the storm clears the Philippines, and travels over water, it can pick up momentum. I feel horrible for everyone in it's path.

http://news.yahoo.com/years-strongest-typhoon-blasts-philippines-052047943.html

[KG4CGC]

And today, nothing from TWC. NOTHING.

[n2ize]

No. It is not better. Of course in New York, everything is just crammed together in a cluster so no matter what happens, you're screwed. New York really needs a sea wall and a rebuild of the 100 year old subway systems.

Here, everything is going under ground, just that's it's happening at a snail's pace if it isn't new. Every place is going to have a certain set of issues. More often than not, trees will grow into power lines and have to be removed. Not an issue with buried lines. Then there are Winter storms. Ice being the worst. Every single year you can see cities on the newscasts where the ice coated trees have taken down miles and miles of line putting millions of people in the cold and dark not to mention the structure fires started when it plays out like this.
Then there's the issue of those same ice coated trees falling on those toothpick houses.

The problem is one of lack of proper tree maintenance. Trees need to be pruned clear of lines, dead and sick trees and branches must be removed before inclement weather. New York State has vast areas of rural and wilderness. Up in the remote sections of the Adirondacks I have even seen the service lines to homes laid on the ground instead of suspended on poles. It would be insanely impractical to bury all those lines. I have even seen homes in the Adirondacks that still had no electrical service, even in the 1990's. Yes, areas that are still not electrified. I could hardly believe it myself. Folks living in those homes either use generators or use candles and oil lamps at night. Thousands of miles of land would have to be dug up, fitted with conduit, access ports, and regularly maintained. The cost would be astronomical and there would still be serious power issues.

[n2ize]

These types of storms are an act of war and need military intervention. Not to fight the storm but to deal with the extreme circumstances in its wake.

[KG4CGC]

The problem is one of lack of proper tree maintenance. Trees need to be pruned clear of lines, dead and sick trees and branches must be removed before inclement weather. New York State has vast areas of rural and wilderness. Up in the remote sections of the Adirondacks I have even seen the service lines to homes laid on the ground instead of suspended on poles. It would be insanely impractical to bury all those lines. I have even seen homes in the Adirondacks that still had no electrical service, even in the 1990's. Yes, areas that are still not electrified. I could hardly believe it myself. Folks living in those homes either use generators or use candles and oil lamps at night. Thousands of miles of land would have to be dug up, fitted with conduit, access ports, and regularly maintained. The cost would be astronomical and there would still be serious power issues.

No. The cost would not be astronomical. You're just being contrary out of habit.

[N8YX]

You're just being contrary out of habit.

There's a mathematical model somewhere for that...

[KG4NEL]

And today, nothing from TWC. NOTHING.

Of course; it's not NYC/Jersey.

[KG4NEL]

That's pretty bad if CNN covered something TWC didn't, though...

[KG4CGC]

Well, last night they were all over it.
I'm getting the impression that it wasn't as "dire" as they "hoped" it would be and thus have cast it aside as not being "spectacular" enough. Or should I say, "deadly enough?"

If the structures held up better than we expected, what does that say for palm and other tropical material for building?

[PA5COR]

We still know nothing about the damage, many islands lost comunication with the mainland.
Lots of those houses consist of corrugated iron roofs and some wood, most were damaged or destroyed.
Last i heard was the fear of 100.000'3 houses destroyed.
The main buldings in the city's are build the normal way we buildt them with concrete etc, and since these storms are not unknown there they are build strong, though this is one serious whopper...

[KG4CGC]

I just saw some pictures on HLN. So far they say the death toll is 5.

[KG4CGC]

More trickling in.
http://www.thv11.com/news/article/286511/2/VIDEO-One-of-the-strongest-storms-ever-sweeps-the-Philippines

[N2NH]

Of course; it's not NYC/Jersey.

They usually srand right in front of the NYC/NJ part of the map and it is rare if they mention us.

This storm is thsame physical size as Sandy, but much much stronger. Sandy was extra tropical when it reached here. That it also combined with a winter storm and strenghtened made it different.

TWC is in Atlanta if I recall. They never mess that up.

[KG4CGC]

Trickling in trickling in.

http://www.wistv.com/story/23912428/over-100-dead-in-typhoon-onslaught-in-philippines?utm_content=buffer72ad3&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Buffer

[n2ize]

No. The cost would not be astronomical. You're just being contrary out of habit.

Do you have ay idea how much is would cost to lay thousands of miles of underground conduit, cables and substations in the largest wilderness area east of the Mississippi ? Not to mention that the entire region is sparsley populated and is designated as an environmentally protected state park. Just the process of getting the waivers and doing the environmental assessments and impacts so they could get the permission and the right of way to dig up thousands of acres along the rights of way through some of the most rugged mountain territory in the east. of the Mississippi would take many years of negotiating and settlements at an astronomical costs. We are not talking of laying cable through some suburbs. We are talking about laying cable through thousands of square miles of some extremely rugged mountainous land that is covered with many feet of snow 7 months out of the year. You do the arithmetic and get back to me with the figures. It would take decades to complete the project being that they could only work during the late spring, summer, and early fall. There is good reason why they are not even thinking of going underground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Mountains

[K7SGJ]

There's a mathematical model somewhere for that...

I think I built one of those when I was a kid. Oh wait...........that was a B-17. Never mind.

[NA4BH]

You must be thinking of the constipated mathematician.

[KG4CGC]

Do you have ay idea how much is would cost to lay thousands of miles of underground conduit, cables and substations in the largest wilderness area east of the Mississippi ? Not to mention that the entire region is sparsley populated and is designated as an environmentally protected state park. Just the process of getting the waivers and doing the environmental assessments and impacts so they could get the permission and the right of way to dig up thousands of acres along the rights of way through some of the most rugged mountain territory in the east. of the Mississippi would take many years of negotiating and settlements at an astronomical costs. We are not talking of laying cable through some suburbs. We are talking about laying cable through thousands of square miles of some extremely rugged mountainous land that is covered with many feet of snow 7 months out of the year. You do the arithmetic and get back to me with the figures. It would take decades to complete the project being that they could only work during the late spring, summer, and early fall. There is good reason why they are not even thinking of going underground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Mountains

Jesus Christ, John. Don't go off the rails. If you WANT to talk about wilderness areas, those ARE the places where I have seen high tension lines run on huge steel towers with a right of way cut through.
What are you trying to do?

[KG4NEL]

You must be thinking of the constipated mathematician.

That's a kind of game theory I don't want to explore.

[NA4BH]

That's a kind of game theory I don't want to explore.

If you had a pencil, you could work it out.

[KG4NEL]

I just need some of those cops in Arizona...

Dividing my, um, products?

[NA4BH]

There you go, corn is your friend.

[N2NH]

I think I built one of those when I was a kid. Oh wait...........that was a B-17. Never mind.

F-17 ... BINGO!

[N2NH]

Jesus Christ, John. Don't go off the rails. If you WANT to talk about wilderness areas, those ARE the places where I have seen high tension lines run on huge steel towers with a right of way cut through.
What are you trying to do?

That's how they do it here. It seems apparent that mathematically your area hasn't invented the wheel. Don't worry. Mathematically we've yet to discover fire.

[NA4BH]

F-17 ... BINGO!


Eddie had the bomber version.

[VK3ZL]

If you had a pencil, you could work it out.


I prefer to use a teaspoon..More comfortable as a pencil has a point and can hurt..

Bob..VK3ZL..

[n2ize]

Jesus Christ, John. Don't go off the rails. If you WANT to talk about wilderness areas, those ARE the places where I have seen high tension lines run on huge steel towers with a right of way cut through.
What are you trying to do?

The region isn't just a right of way for heavy power lines to reach the cities. In fact you'll see more of that type infrastructure down here where I live than up there. Despite being a publically protected park the area I'm speaking of does have a significant number of small towns and cities and public and private dwellings(i.e Plattsburg, Vermontville, Lake George, etc) to require an electrical distribution system that has to stretch through miles of rugged land to reach individual homes, businesses, etc. It's still sparse and scattered but yet collectively a significant enough number of people to require it. We are not just talking about steel towers with high tension wires. we are talking about the need for wires to be strung along wooden poles through some of the most rugged terrain to reach and provide power to those people. Yet the logistics and cost of switching to an underground distribution system would be next to impossible. My point being that once you get north of NYC and it's densely populated suburbs much of NY is like that. It's a very rural/remote state once you get outside of its larger and smaller cities and towns. Switching to a fully underground system is not cost effective or practical. Thats why you generally only see it underground in Manhattan (since the blizzard of 1888 ) and in new developments outside of the city. You'd need to come up to Old Forge with me one day to see and understand how the place is wired and the incredible difficulty you'd have trying to put it all underground. Ever park your car down on a dirt road and then have to climb a mountain just to visit a friend ? Ever hear of the Adirondack Riflemen ?

[suddenseer]

As the search & rescue & recovery gets going, it appears to be just as bad if not worse that many of us feared. This is a horrible storm.

http://news.yahoo.com/typhoon-haiyan-flattens-houses-triggers-floods-philippines-least-011653699.html

[KG4CGC]

The region isn't just a right of way for heavy power lines to reach the cities. In fact you'll see more of that type infrastructure down here where I live than up there. Despite being a publically protected park the area I'm speaking of does have a significant number of small towns and cities and public and private dwellings(i.e Plattsburg, Vermontville, Lake George, etc) to require an electrical distribution system that has to stretch through miles of rugged land to reach individual homes, businesses, etc. It's still sparse and scattered but yet collectively a significant enough number of people to require it. We are not just talking about steel towers with high tension wires. we are talking about the need for wires to be strung along wooden poles through some of the most rugged terrain to reach and provide power to those people. Yet the logistics and cost of switching to an underground distribution system would be next to impossible. My point being that once you get north of NYC and it's densely populated suburbs much of NY is like that. It's a very rural/remote state once you get outside of its larger and smaller cities and towns. Switching to a fully underground system is not cost effective or practical. Thats why you generally only see it underground in Manhattan (since the blizzard of 1888 ) and in new developments outside of the city. You'd need to come up to Old Forge with me one day to see and understand how the place is wired and the incredible difficulty you'd have trying to put it all underground. Ever park your car down on a dirt road and then have to climb a mountain just to visit a friend ? Ever hear of the Adirondack Riflemen ?

Ever hear of an ambush?

[KG4CGC]

As the search & rescue & recovery gets going, it appears to be just as bad if not worse that many of us feared. This is a horrible storm.

http://news.yahoo.com/typhoon-haiyan-flattens-houses-triggers-floods-philippines-least-011653699.html

Yes. Just now they said they are looking at 10,000 dead and rising. This sucks.

[kb2vxa]

I haven't written yet because I haven't the words. I thought Sandy was bad but THIS?

[suddenseer]

It is slamming into Vietnam now. They have not seen anything like this either. I hope this is not a new trend.

[PA5COR]

We might not get much more storms, but the ones that we et are getting stronger annd larger, we here get more tornado's and thhese are growing in strength as well.

[K7SGJ]

And if this typhoon wasn't enough, they got hit by 4.8 earthquake last night and another storm is headed their way. Reports say it may be months before power is restored to parts of the islands. These people are really getting beat up.

[KG4CGC]

And if this typhoon wasn't enough, they got hit by 4.8 earthquake last night and another storm is headed their way. Reports say it may be months before power is restored to parts of the islands. These people are really getting beat up.

HFS! Why did I see this EQ coming? Maybe I was just reminded of the Japan disaster for some reason.

[KG4CGC]

As seen elsewhere:

So much for the Red Cross:
Some charities that are participating in the relief and recovery efforts are either (1) not entirely clear when we asked them about their Haiyan fundraising efforts, (2) are accepting designated gifts with the caveat that ‘excess’ funds may be used elsewhere, or (3) are not accepting designated gifts at all preferring to ask donors to contribute to their work in responding to any and all disasters. These charities include: American Red Cross, Global Giving, Save the Children, Heart to Heart International, Plan International USA, United States Fund for UNICEF, World Food Program USA, Childfund International, Catholic Relief Services, ShelterBox USA, World Vision, and Water Missions International. If you plan to support one of these charities, then we strongly encourage you to contact the charity directly to find out how your donation will be used.