"After Armageddon" on the History Channel

[KK4AMI]

Kind of a what to do after a worldwide pandemic 1:30 hour training film. I thought it was pretty realistic. Lessons learned;

1. Don't live in a big city
2. Don't expect to drive your SUV full of supplies everywhere
3. Stay away from main roads
4. Don't drag a wife in denial and a teenage son addicted to his electronic toys around
5. Learn how to make your own antibiotics. Because sure as shootin' Mother Nature will screw you no matter how trained you are at survival.
6. Stay away from Cities and small towns. Find an open piece of land with running water and farming potential.
7. Amateur radio will be the only form of national and/or worldwide communication
8. Having a gun could not hurt because much of the population will turn predatory
9. Camouflage your residence to look like its been looted already

[WX7P]

Kind of a what to do after a worldwide pandemic 1:30 hour training film. I thought it was pretty realistic. Lessons learned;

1. Don't live in a big city
2. Don't expect to drive your SUV full of supplies everywhere
3. Stay away from main roads
4. Don't drag a wife in denial and a teenage son addicted to his electronic toys around
5. Learn how to make your own antibiotics. Because sure as shootin' Mother Nature will screw you no matter how trained you are at survival.
6. Stay away from Cities and small towns. Find an open piece of land with running water and farming potential.
7. Amateur radio will be the only form of national and/or worldwide communication
8. Having a gun could not hurt because much of the population will turn predatory
9. Camouflage your residence to look like its been looted already

Wow, Mike.

Sounds like some of the Militia types that live in rural Idaho...

[PA5COR]

Meh
I already meet most conditions for prepping, but i don't really believe we need to go the "The sky is falling" road...

[KK4AMI]

Meh
I already meet most conditions for prepping, but i don't really believe we need to go the "The sky is falling" road...

It is just a mental exercise. It also is an interesting study of Human Behavior. This show was put together by experts that studied peoples actions during natural disasters, wars and disease outbreaks. Then they made a prediction about what would happen in a world wide disease outbreak or pandemic. When it gets down to survival, it seems most people lose all signs of "civilized" behavior.

[KK4AMI]

Wow, Mike.

Sounds like some of the Militia types that live in rural Idaho...

I'd consider Idaho if I could bring my fly rod and live near one of those trout streams :)

[WX7P]

I'd consider Idaho if I could bring my fly rod and live near one of those trout streams :)

It's COLD there in the winter. Not like NOVA, bone chilling COLD.

[KC2UGV]

It is just a mental exercise. It also is an interesting study of Human Behavior. This show was put together by experts that studied peoples actions during natural disasters, wars and disease outbreaks. Then they made a prediction about what would happen in a world wide disease outbreak or pandemic. When it gets down to survival, it seems most people lose all signs of "civilized" behavior.

Possibly, at first. However, humans, being the social animals we are, tend to cluster into organized societies.

[KK4AMI]

Possibly, at first. However, humans, being the social animals we are, tend to cluster into organized societies.

Very true, however, the TV show pointed out that it would start as small villages for protection, farming, etc. They would only allow people in that were useful.

[PA5COR]

Let s see, ham radio operator, with independant energy sources check.
Own guns with plenty ammo reloading myself, check.
Mostly enough fuel in supply, house extremely isolated and secure check.
Food, own garden with veggies, potato's etc, check.
Can repair lots of electronic and mechanic thingies, check.
Have a bundle of tools including angle grinder and welder check.
Live in a small city, good neighbours in the small street check.
Have some savings in my account, no debts so if i see the sh*t hit the proverbial fan i can aqquire needed stuff soon and plenty.check.
Have a few good friends living on the land in farms. check.
Don't need medicines yet except over the counter painkillers for my back, enough to be had or can do without check.
Can build a woodstove with materials at hand, enough wood to be found next to my house, check.
Have a 60 gallon watertank with fresh water ( normally for watering plants) check.
Alternative lighting through LED's solar panel and car battery, check.
4 bycicles for 2 persons here, check.
several LED torches with rechargeble batteries check.
Food for one week in supply all the time, chck.
Lamp petrol 20 gallons and petrol lamps, check.
Petrol heater check.
Petrol cooker, check.
Inverter 12 volt to 230 volt 50 Hz 1000 watt check.
etc etc etc, check.

[WX7P]

Let s see, ham radio operator, with independant energy sources check.
Own guns with plenty ammo reloading myself, check.
Mostly enough fuel in supply, house extremely isolated and secure check.
Food, own garden with veggies, potato's etc, check.
Can repair lots of electronic and mechanic thingies, check.
Have a bundle of tools including angle grinder and welder check.
Live in a small city, good neighbours in the small street check.
Have some savings in my account, no debts so if i see the sh*t hit the proverbial fan i can aqquire needed stuff soon and plenty.check.
Have a few good friends living on the land in farms. check.
Don't need medicines yet except over the counter painkillers for my back, enough to be had or can do without check.
Can build a woodstove with materials at hand, enough wood to be found next to my house, check.
Have a 60 gallon watertank with fresh water ( normally for watering plants) check.
Alternative lighting through LED's solar panel and car battery, check.
4 bycicles for 2 persons here, check.
several LED torches with rechargeble batteries check.
Food for one week in supply all the time, chck.
Lamp petrol 20 gallons and petrol lamps, check.
Petrol heater check.
Petrol cooker, check.
Inverter 12 volt to 230 volt 50 Hz 1000 watt check.
etc etc etc, check.

COR! You're a right wing survivalist!

Glenn Beck and Alex Jones would be proud...

[kb2vxa]

You forgot one thing, almost all of the old windmills were replaced by electric pumps powered by city mains. I suggest you get a military surplus gunboat and refit it. The USS New Jersey would fill the bill nicely since it was restored including the radio room but you might have some trouble getting it home from Camden before the gangsters take it over and become pirates. Then you could nab the USS Ling and paint it yellow but you again may have trouble trying to leave Hackensack since the accumulation of silt in the river affords navigation only for small boats. We have quite a few Navy vessels in mothballs in San Diego, you might look into shopping there.

[K7SGJ]

It is just a mental exercise. It also is an interesting study of Human Behavior. This show was put together by experts that studied peoples actions during natural disasters, wars and disease outbreaks. Then they made a prediction about what would happen in a world wide disease outbreak or pandemic. When it gets down to survival, it seems most people lose all signs of "civilized" behavior.

You mean like the political forum?

[N2NH]

Personally this reeks of mental masturbation (if I can speak plainly).

Most people can not live in the country with electricity roughing it just a bit.

Most cities are already FUBAR'd, they are losing control. Look at all the shootouts. All of them nuts of course.

But walking around killing unarmed peopleis about as anarchistic as it gets. Of course they're mad.

I doubt if there will be any warning and if there is it will give people enough time to bend over and kiss their ass goodbye. Pretty much like when NYC got it in Watchmen. Most convincing end of Gotham (among other places) I've ever seen.

Survival will be a crap shoot in my very humble opinion. As bad as we think it can get, we are likely undersetimating things.

[KG4NEL]

Camus got it right.

IMHO...

[KK4AMI]

Camus got it right.

IMHO...

You are referring to his book "The Plague"? Yeah, I think he was writing from personal experience in Algeria.

[KK4AMI]

In watching "After Armageddon", I got the opinion that hunkering down in your home or farm would likely not be an option. Even though the US population was decimated by 50%, roving bands of citizens scrounging for food would be a constant threat. Yeah, you can have a gun to defend yourself, but that will be a 24/7 job guarding your property and possessions. The odds of survival in one spot would be against you. Things like generator noise, antennas, lights and gardens would attract trouble.

I was going to stay right where I am, but now I'm revising my "plan". Moving up north where it is really cold in the winter might be a good idea. The roving bands of citizens will likely remain where it is warm, so I get a whole season of not having to remain "on guard". Maybe moving into the middle of Detroit would be a great place to hide with plenty of Great Lakes water and abandoned houses to live in.

[KC2UGV]

In watching "After Armageddon", I got the opinion that hunkering down in your home or farm would likely not be an option. Even though the US population was decimated by 50%, roving bands of citizens scrounging for food would be a constant threat. Yeah, you can have a gun to defend yourself, but that will be a 24/7 job guarding your property and possessions. The odds of survival in one spot would be against you. Things like generator noise, antennas, lights and gardens would attract trouble.

I was going to stay right where I am, but now I'm revising my "plan". Moving up north where it is really cold in the winter might be a good idea. The roving bands of citizens will likely remain where it is warm, so I get a whole season of not having to remain "on guard". Maybe moving into the middle of Detroit would be a great place to hide with plenty of Great Lakes water and abandoned houses to live in.

Which is why, quite quickly, communities will reform, and law and order restored. It's the natural way of humans. It's just what we do. Which is why the whole "I'm a man of my own means, and nothing I have wasn't built by me" fails.

[PA5COR]

http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm

Have a nice read up.

[W3WN]

Very true, however, the TV show pointed out that it would start as small villages for protection, farming, etc. They would only allow people in that were useful.Ever read Lucifer's Hammer?

[NQ6U]

We have quite a few Navy vessels in mothballs in San Diego, you might look into shopping there.

In fact, no we don't—San Diego Bay is too small for that. The Navy mothball fleet is in Suisun Bay between San Francisco and Sacramento.

http://sf.metblogs.com/files/2010/03/mothball_fleet.jpg

What's left of it, anyhow. They're slowing scrapping the whole lot of them.

[K7SGJ]

The Navy has mothballs? Who Gnu? I always heard they have no balls.

[KK4AMI]

Ever read Lucifer's Hammer?

That is kind of the classic "Disaster" book. Comet destroys earth and man finishes it off. Great reference even for the Dooms Day guys.

[N2NH]

That is kind of the classic "Disaster" book. Comet destroys earth and man finishes it off. Great reference even for the Dooms Day guys.

Excellent book and probably close to the truth. It will quickly disperse any ideas that when the s#!t hits the fan we will have any degree of control. Costners movie The Postman was about one character from that book.

Read the entire link Cor. The one thing not covered much is that the most pessimistic of predictions are turning out to be extremely optimistic. I feel that it is the reason the rich are going for the gold. Literally.

Not that it will make much difference in a new world where the only constant is chaos.

[KC2UGV]

Excellent book and probably close to the truth. It will quickly disperse any ideas that when the s#!t hits the fan we will have any degree of control. Costners movie The Postman was about one character from that book.

Read the entire link Cor. The one thing not covered much is that the most pessimistic of predictions are turning out to be extremely optimistic. I feel that it is the reason the rich are going for the gold. Literally.

Not that it will make much difference in a new world where the only constant is chaos.

Except, even gold will be worthless. The only thing that would be of any worth for the 50 years following any sort of catastrophe would be: Food, water, fuel, and weaponry.

Food and Water: Gotta have them to live, food being hard to come by after about 6 months or so. Water, a bit easier, but only if you don't care about safety of your water.

Fuel: People will keep running those internal combustion engines. Basic fact of life, is we need them.

Weaponry: Guns will be valuable for the first year maybe. Then, after all the loonies have spent all the ammunition, carrying an 8 pound rifle you're scared to use so you don't run out of ammo becomes pointless. Back to those who know how to make arrows, bows, and can work metal.

[KK4AMI]

Except, even gold will be worthless. The only thing that would be of any worth for the 50 years following any sort of catastrophe would be: Food, water, fuel, and weaponry.

Food and Water: Gotta have them to live, food being hard to come by after about 6 months or so. Water, a bit easier, but only if you don't care about safety of your water.

Fuel: People will keep running those internal combustion engines. Basic fact of life, is we need them.

Weaponry: Guns will be valuable for the first year maybe. Then, after all the loonies have spent all the ammunition, carrying an 8 pound rifle you're scared to use so you don't run out of ammo becomes pointless. Back to those who know how to make arrows, bows, and can work metal.

I'm reloading 308 Win from a 25 year old 8 lb can of powder, so guns should be around for a while. But, I am worried about the food issue. If you look at a 50 year period after a calamity, 150 million scavenging survivors plus newborns will decimate the manufactured stocks and wild game and fish population in about 10 years. Then it will be down to vegetarians and (horror) cannibalism.

[K7SGJ]

I'm reloading 308 Win from a 25 year old 8 lb can of powder, so guns should be around for a while. But, I am worried about the food issue. If you look at a 50 year period after a calamity, 150 million savaging survivors plus newborns will decimate the manufactured stocks and wild game and fish population in about 10 years. Then it will be down to vegetarians and (horror) cannibalism.

That'll put an end to the old comeback of "eat me".

[KC2UGV]

I'm reloading 308 Win from a 25 year old 8 lb can of powder, so guns should be around for a while. But, I am worried about the food issue. If you look at a 50 year period after a calamity, 150 million scavenging survivors plus newborns will decimate the manufactured stocks and wild game and fish population in about 10 years. Then it will be down to vegetarians and (horror) cannibalism.

How long do you think that 8lb can of unloaded ammunition will last with rapidly forming armed gangs, then quickly supplanted by local militias?

It ain't gunna last long. Right now, you use ammunition for sport shooting, and maybe a little hunting. Now, start using it for daily fights, daily hunting, trade, etc etc. You will find that 8lb can gone quite quickly. Until, of course, you get down to like the last 500 rounds worth. Then it will last a very long time, since you'll be concerned about not being able to replace it.

It's doubtful there will be 150 million survivors, let alone able to decimate wild game supplied. Most of those 150 million don't know thing one about hunting and foraging, so they'll starve. And then, when you have lots of people dying around you, things become very unsanitary, very quickly. So, you can now up the kill rate based on illness and injury (Remember, no antibiotics anymore).

In the event of societal collapse-level catastrophe, you can expect at most a 10% survival rate over a 50 year period. Live birth rates will drop off to very low levels (Remember, child birth used to be a very dangerous thing for the mother). Newborns will die much more often, also slowing the population growth rate.

[KK4AMI]

How long do you think that 8lb can of unloaded ammunition will last with rapidly forming armed gangs, then quickly supplanted by local militias?

I was referring to how long powder will store. 8 lbs is good for about 1435 rds of 308 Win. For 25 years, I was figuring about 60 rds per year on average (20 rds for harvesting deer) and about 40 rds per year on self defense. Maybe more at the beginning, but less as the years go on. I'm going to do my best to camouflage my existence so I don't confront armed gangs on a regular basis.


It's doubtful there will be 150 million survivors, let alone able to decimate wild game supplied. Most of those 150 million don't know thing one about hunting and foraging, so they'll starve. And then, when you have lots of people dying around you, things become very unsanitary, very quickly. So, you can now up the kill rate based on illness and injury (Remember, no antibiotics anymore).

Oh, I think the game will get pretty scarce. The hunters will hunt extra for trade to people who don't hunt and maybe get some antibiotics.


In the event of societal collapse-level catastrophe, you can expect at most a 10% survival rate over a 50 year period. Live birth rates will drop off to very low levels (Remember, child birth used to be a very dangerous thing for the mother). Newborns will die much more often, also slowing the population growth rate.

I was just guessing at 1/2 the population at the start. If it goes down to 10% after 50 years then it'll be pretty easy to hide out from armed gangs.

[N2NH]

Except, even gold will be worthless. The only thing that would be of any worth for the 50 years following any sort of catastrophe would be: Food, water, fuel, and weaponry.

Food and Water: Gotta have them to live, food being hard to come by after about 6 months or so. Water, a bit easier, but only if you don't care about safety of your water.

Fuel: People will keep running those internal combustion engines. Basic fact of life, is we need them.

Weaponry: Guns will be valuable for the first year maybe. Then, after all the loonies have spent all the ammunition, carrying an 8 pound rifle you're scared to use so you don't run out of ammo becomes pointless. Back to those who know how to make arrows, bows, and can work metal.

I definitely agree gold will be worthless, so will anything that doesn't satify basic needs like food, water, shelter and clothing. I can see that trading posts where fur can be traded for food or ammunition might come back. Maybe forts and castles. If the damage is confined, say to the coasts, continents will be cut off from each other. Messengers will be necessary for communications locally. I doubt if a society like this could support more than 300 million people world-wide for the long term. That would mean a 95% reduction in population. Medicine will be the big problem. Got hypertension or diabetes? Big problem. Enough to wipe that smile off of Smilin' Bobs face...

[KC2UGV]

I was referring to how long powder will store. 8 lbs is good for about 1435 rds of 308 Win. For 25 years, I was figuring about 60 rds per year on average (20 rds for harvesting deer) and about 40 rds per year on self defense. Maybe more at the beginning, but less as the years go on. I'm going to do my best to camouflage my existence so I don't confront armed gangs on a regular basis.


You do realize that 40 rounds isn't even a single confrontation, right? There's a reason soldiers carry 240 rounds on their persons.

Armed gangs are looking for your supplies. Are you just going to hide while they take everything you have?



Oh, I think the game will get pretty scarce. The hunters will hunt extra for trade to people who don't hunt and maybe get some antibiotics.


There are no antibiotics. Antibiotics expire in about 3 months. And trade for game will likely be non-existent for several years, as everyone will be working on their own needs.



I was just guessing at 1/2 the population at the start. If it goes down to 10% after 50 years then it'll be pretty easy to hide out from armed gangs.

Maybe. If you're buy yourself. Good luck pulling guard, building habitation, foraging for food, purifying water, and cooking as a team of one. Something tells me you would collapse after about 3 months of that.

[KC2UGV]

I definitely agree gold will be worthless, so will anything that doesn't satify basic needs like food, water, shelter and clothing. I can see that trading posts where fur can be traded for food or ammunition might come back. Maybe forts and castles. If the damage is confined, say to the coasts, continents will be cut off from each other. Messengers will be necessary for communications locally. I doubt if a society like this could support more than 300 million people world-wide for the long term. That would mean a 95% reduction in population. Medicine will be the big problem. Got hypertension or diabetes? Big problem. Enough to wipe that smile off of Smilin' Bobs face...

Oh that 95% reduction would come quickly on it's own. Because of exactly what you're saying: Such a society can't support the population's current size.

[KK4AMI]

You do realize that 40 rounds isn't even a single confrontation, right? There's a reason soldiers carry 240 rounds on their persons.

Armed gangs are looking for your supplies. Are you just going to hide while they take everything you have?

Are you going to carry 240 arrows in your quiver? A soldier carries MREs and eats 3000 calories a day. Try carrying all that crap when you will be lucky to get 500 calories a day and not riding in a HUMVEE.




There are no antibiotics. Antibiotics expire in about 3 months. And trade for game will likely be non-existent for several years, as everyone will be working on their own needs.

Not sure where you are getting your facts and figures, but some of the synthetics like CIPRO can go 3 to 6 years.





Maybe. If you're buy yourself. Good luck pulling guard, building habitation, foraging for food, purifying water, and cooking as a team of one. Something tells me you would collapse after about 3 months of that.

Check that "After the Armageddon" show out. I'd build a bunker to live in on the edge of my property in the woods. I would put the wife, food, water, iodine tablets, reloading gear and what ever survival stuff I would need in the bunker. My house would then be camouflaged to appear looted and empty by breaking a couple of windows, removing doors and throwing a TV set out in the driveway, don't cut the grass, etc.

PS- From my bunker while wearing my Ghillie Suit and bearing a 1/2 MOA 308 WIN rifle with 10x scope, I will great visitors.:shhh:

[PA5COR]

I have just 2000 rounds ready here and components to make another 10.000 rounds in .30 M1 Carbine and .357 Magnum for the Desert Eagle and S&W 686, and lots of .22 LR for the GSP target pistol.

M1 Carbine scoped with 3 x 9 times 50 mm lens from Bushnell.
Lots of JHP bullets ( Hornady) bought in bulk .
several 30 round magazines 15 round ones enough to keeep going for a long time.
Brick walls outside second wall is reinforced concrete total thickness 12 inches with added airspace for the insulation material 15 inches.
House between 2 others so front and back to cover.

That is if i believed in armagheddon...

[N2NH]

Oh that 95% reduction would come quickly on it's own. Because of exactly what you're saying: Such a society can't support the population's current size.

Some of that reduction will likely come about in wars and pestilence. I have no doubt that we've been down this road before and likely more than once. The readings of high radiation in many of the worlds deserts is one indication as are the ancient pre historic cities (ice age era) being discovered.

[K7SGJ]

I have just 2000 rounds ready here and components to make another 10.000 rounds in .30 M1 Carbine and .357 Magnum for the Desert Eagle and S&W 686, and lots of .22 LR for the GSP target pistol.

M1 Carbine scoped with 3 x 9 times 50 mm lens from Bushnell.
Lots of JHP bullets ( Hornady) bought in bulk .
several 30 round magazines 15 round ones enough to keeep going for a long time.
Brick walls outside second wall is reinforced concrete total thickness 12 inches with added airspace for the insulation material 15 inches.
House between 2 others so front and back to cover.

That is if i believed in armagheddon...

If the shit should hit the fan, could I rent a room? I could help during HR contests, too. Oh...........wait.................who would check the logs.......never mind.

[KC2UGV]

Are you going to carry 240 arrows in your quiver? A soldier carries MREs and eats 3000 calories a day. Try carrying all that crap when you will be lucky to get 500 calories a day and not riding in a HUMVEE.


No, but I'm not assuming 40 arrows for self defense will get me through a year, either.

Yes, soldiers consume about 3000 calories a day, and require about 3000 calories a day when deployed. Which means you will need about 3000 calories a day. None of that precludes the fact that 40 rounds per year for self defense is a stupid number to even consider. 40 rounds would be fired in a single confrontation.



Not sure where you are getting your facts and figures, but some of the synthetics like CIPRO can go 3 to 6 years.


Good luck with those synthetics. Hope you enjoy torn tendons.



Check that "After the Armageddon" show out. I'd build a bunker to live in on the edge of my property in the woods. I would put the wife, food, water, iodine tablets, reloading gear and what ever survival stuff I would need in the bunker. My house would then be camouflaged to appear looted and empty by breaking a couple of windows, removing doors and throwing a TV set out in the driveway, don't cut the grass, etc.


And, let's presume they don't need a place to stay, and that all the food you ever need is in that bunker. Oh, let's not forget, some of those looters will be people who can track game. And people.



PS- From my bunker while wearing my Ghillie Suit and bearing a 1/2 MOA 308 WIN rifle with 10x scope, I will great visitors.:shhh:

Oh, geeze louise...

[KK4AMI]

Oh, geeze louise...

OK, it might be just a Tree Bark camouflage pair of overalls to start with, but I have been practicing with my Remington 700 5R on a bipod. I'm currently expending about 50 rounds a week to reduce my group. So far I can do just under 1.5 inches at 300 yards in a 15 mph wind.

[PA5COR]

LOL no problem.
I buy reloading components in bulk also for other members at the shooting club combining orders to get a nice discount.
1 Kilo N110 from Vihtavuori powder i use to reload .357 andf the .30 M1 carbine with normally costs 85 euro's with 20% off that is a better price.
With one kilo i can reload about 1000 rounds of .357 Mganum, ( 15 grains) or 1200 M1 carbine rounds ( 13.2 grans)
I took care of the trigger of the carbine which was 8 pounds+ and reduced it at 3 pounds, and a crisp pull.
I have the full manual for it too including angles for the triggerparts etc.
Desrt eagle has the additional adjustable triggergroup installed, the S&W had a triggerjob as well.
The Walther GSP has a fully settable trigger since it is a target pistol.
And it's effing accurate as well, normaly 1 hand shooting olympic style at 25 meters i have 350 -360 out of 400 points.
The Desert Eagle and S&W 686 got me many 1st place cups in competitions dfor military and free pistol/revolver competitions.
We have out own 100 meter all calibre indoor rrange ( must be some piccies around here on the board i took at the gunclub) 25 meter handgun range, 25 meter "fun" range for falling plate and pinball shooting a 12 meter range for pistol, and 12 meter range for precision target rifle shooting.
Also we have a selection of young people shooting air rifles and pistols, most of them will become later good shooters with firearms.



If the shit should hit the fan, could I rent a room? I could help during HR contests, too. Oh...........wait.................who would check the logs.......never mind.

[kb2vxa]

"OK, it might be just a Tree Bark camouflage pair of overalls to start with, but I have been practicing with my Remington 700 5R on a bipod."

You won't need the Remington, with that outfit the chicks will just fall into your arms.

[N2NH]

10978

Not quite as much drama same result.

[KK4AMI]

My camo is much more subtle

10980