If you had no shack, how much would you pay to get on the air?

[W5BRM]

http://www.remotehamradio.com

Nice concept... check the Pricing/Inquire link before you get too excited though :rofl:

[NQ6U]

Not that much. For the yearly "Bronze" price, you could duplicate my entire shack and hugely improve the antenna system.

[NQ6U]

dupe

[KG4NEL]

Would take the fun completely out of it for me.

[WØTKX]

WTF?


§97.113(a)(2) "Prohibits communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules."

The "otherwise provided" exceptions are narrowly drawn for occasional "swap net" activity, to allow teachers to use an amateur station in classroom instruction, and to allow the control operator of a club station to be paid for the sort of code practice and bulletin transmissions conducted by W1AW -- in fact, the rule was written specifically for W1AW.

[KG4NEL]

I bet they're drawing the line that the communications themselves aren't for hire, they're just a VOIP version of renting out a Caribbean QTH.

[W5BRM]

i think the thing that really gets me is in ADDITION to the annual fee, you still have to pay per minute/hour... even on the higher based plans after you get done with the "included minutes" I mean, sheesh $7K with 1500 minutes. My cellphone only charges me $80 for that...lol. At $7k, I they should provide a sexy maid serving me pinia colada's while im on the air. Talk about grabbing every extra bit of cash you can get your hands one...lol. The reason they charge like that is because they say it will stop radio hogs...lol. A nice little timer will do the same thing. Or perhaps a bandwidth limit? Allow 2gigs per day or whatever based on the membership level or something like that.

[W5BRM]

Actually tracked down one of the contest dx locations on google maps. I grew up about 10 miles from there! Plug 42.555162, -74.581817 into google maps and you can see the tower farm and setup.


And I found out WHY they need to charge so much money!
http://youtu.be/x_zHBDeEf2Q

Must be nice to land a chopper in your front yard

[KJ3N]

Not that much. For the yearly "Bronze" price, you could duplicate my entire shack and hugely improve the antenna system.

The bronze plan would pay for my K3/100 with 2nd RX. The platinum plan would pay for every working HF radio I currently own (K3, two IC-7000s, and IC-746Pro).

The renewal fee on the bronze plan would pay for every piece of material I've bought to make all the wire antennas I currently have deployed, plus a couple of the VHF/UHF beam antennas I've bought.

:hand:

[kb2vxa]

The ARRL is the rich radio version of rich Congress representing their rich agendas and ignoring the electorate so they can go to hell with a wouff hong up their collective ass! FYI the "concept" has been around a LOT longer having been in use for decades by broadcasters and hams alike for remote control of stations. Remember the first popular ham system made by Kachina? Not the first system mind you but the first and frankly only popular ham system, now the ARRL boffins are at it again.

Interestingly enough the western Pueblo, Native American cultures located in the southwestern United States, include Hopi, Zuni, Tewa Village (on the Hopi Reservation), Acoma Pueblo, and Laguna Pueblo practice the Kachina religion. Kachinas are spirits or personifications of things in the real world. A kachina can represent anything in the natural world or cosmos, from a revered ancestor to an element, a location, a quality, a natural phenomenon, or a concept such as radio.

[KG4NEL]

Maybe I have a warped business acumen, but it would seem like a setup like this would be made for my demographic - twentysomethings who don't own their own home, don't have towers, might not even be in the same state in a few years. At least that way, they'd get the chance to operate a "real" station somewhere (even if personally the idea doesn't appeal).

But they've priced themselves completely out of that market. Guess those mortgages really aren't that cheap.

[KJ3N]

Who needs towers? As long as I have 2 trees at least 50 feet tall and 130 feet apart, I'm on the air.

I can put together an HF station for around $1,000, buying new. Less, if I buy used. That's 1/3 of the bronze plan, and I don't have to keep paying.

[KG4CGC]

If you can afford that kind of coin, you can build a shack on another property. I dunno, maybe if you're a doctor that has to live close to the hospital or are a world traveling business type in which case, you could probably operate from actual locations.
Other than that, you now know the cost of using that giant antenna.

[KC2UGV]

Geeze, I figured you could just spend about $400 on a radio, $50 on wire, and about <$100 on coax, and just get on the air. Whenever you like. For however long you like.

If I had that kind of money to blow, I would save over the course of 2 years, and just erect a tower.

[n2ize]

Maybe I have a warped business acumen, but it would seem like a setup like this would be made for my demographic - twentysomethings who don't own their own home, don't have towers, might not even be in the same state in a few years. At least that way, they'd get the chance to operate a "real" station somewhere (even if personally the idea doesn't appeal).

But they've priced themselves completely out of that market. Guess those mortgages really aren't that cheap.

What is a "real station". To me a "real station" is anything from a tiny single transistor home made QRP CW transmitter and a wire hanging out a window to a monster station will full legal power, and an antenna tower farm. For me a real station was/is a wire doublet up in a tree, a matchbox and a couple of old boat anchors. Didn't need a tower yet got got round the world.

[n2ize]

Who needs towers? As long as I have 2 trees at least 50 feet tall and 130 feet apart, I'm on the air.

I can put together an HF station for around $1,000, buying new. Less, if I buy used. That's 1/3 of the bronze plan, and I don't have to keep paying.

You can even do it with one tree and get excellent results.

[n2ize]

Geeze, I figured you could just spend about $400 on a radio, $50 on wire, and about <$100 on coax, and just get on the air. Whenever you like. For however long you like.

If I had that kind of money to blow, I would save over the course of 2 years, and just erect a tower.

Or you could save the money and just travel. And the best part. The groping at the airports is free. :)

[K7SGJ]

Or just drop by HRO or one of those places and operate all the new stuff for free.

[n2ize]

Okay, my feeling on this are and I don;t mean to offend anyone are... it stinks. To me the whole idea of ham radio is to do it yourself. That is the entire fun of the whole thing. You do the best you can with what you have. Whether, it's a piece of wire hanging out the window of an apartment attached to a home made QRP transmitter, a VHF/UHF hand held, a couple of ancient boat anchors connected to a basic dipole into the trees or perhaps a homebrew wire directional array, or if it's a state of the art station fed into an antenna farm with no expenses spared, it's all about doing the best you can with what ever is at your disposal and with what resources are available to you. I am already doing world wide DX over the Internet each and every time I am online. To me the whole purpose of ham radio is to make the best out of what you have.

Lastly, although affordable it is still very expensive. If I am going to spend that kind of money I'd prefer to buy equipment.

[K0RGR]

A very high percentage of new hams are living in places where antennas are near impossible, and local QRM from and to the consumer devices makes almost any kind of operating a pain in the kiester. I've sat here with an indoor loop scratching out a few contacts using CW and digital modes, trying to do the near impossible with low power. Yeah, you can do it, and maybe for a beginner it's fun, but for someone with a boatload of QSL cards, it just seems like a bit much too much work to be fun.

So, I think you will see many more of these kind of arrangements in the future, serving antenna-deprived hams. Most of the newer rigs are remoteable, some more than others. Unless your station is in use around the clock, maybe you could share it?

Now, if I didn't have a place to build a remoteable station, maybe the big price tag on this solution would look better. I think it's way too expensive for most of us, but it's obviously not aimed at the guy on a budget. Rather, it's aimed at the guy with tons of money to burn, living in a condo.

It would be wonderful if our radio clubs would work on establishing this kind of station to be shared by their members/newbies. I'm planning to build one in my basement this winter. It won't be a superstation by any stretch of the imagination, but it will be good enough for someone to enjoy when I'm not using it. At first, I plan to share it with two family members who are antenna deprived. I would hope that in addition to clubs, we'd see individuals doing more of this, too. It all adds up to more opportunity to get people on the air.

But I know, if you don't own the house and every piece of equipment in it, it's common'ism, cheating, and fattening, too. Why do I hate America so much?

[K7SGJ]

Call me hard hearted, but maybe if some one can't put a station together because of HOAs, or other restrictions, perhaps this isn't the hobby to have. Don't get me wrong, I hate the idea of buying a house somewhere, and having some group of assholes tell me what I can have or not have, do or not do, or the color I can paint my house. It's not like all of a sudden one morning, these stupid rules were put into place and ham operators that dwell in these communities were caught unaware. If I was really passionate about building hot rods or raising chickens, the city, an HOA in particular, would be the last place I would live.

If someone is really into this hobby, there are always compromise solutions such as mobile ops, hidden antennas, or other creative solutions. To me, this hobby is all about being creative, and doing the best with what you have or can acquire. If a person is a serious contester, wall paper hanger, or "big gun", I doubt they'd be hanging out in an HOA, anyway. These kind of hams are usually that fat cats that own the HOAs. The bastids

You know, I like to bass fish. I usually fish from the bank, catch a few, and have fun. If I was going to compete, or go on the pro circuit, I'd probably have to buy an expensive bass boat with a fast engine and lots of electronics; and I'd probably do that, but I don't have the interest or the money for that.

[Jeff K1NSS]

It's clever to make money selling secondhand pretend ham radio experience. Firsthand ham radio is its own flavor of pretend, a "home version" of professional communications service few people really need in today's cellphone world.

[N8YX]

If someone is really into this hobby, there are always compromise solutions such as mobile ops, hidden antennas, or other creative solutions.

Gonna have to go with Eddie on this one. Bike-packing your favorite QRP rig, a battery source, solar charger and antenna supplies into a camping area or park is another. Those locations could be used to facilitate weekend contesting or general operating.

We have an HT go-bag for Dayton and similar events. In it are a VX6/VX7R, MURS radios, FRM/GMRS radios and chargers/antennas/mics/batteries for each. This year I started carrying a Lapdock and charger for our cellphones - if needed I can connect to the 'Net for whatever reason. A rig-control/logging program could probably be developed for the device, and that would eliminate the need to carry a laptop along.

A few suitcase HF rigs and test-equipment 'traveler' power modules allow me to take along a full complement of HF gear, antennas and the means to troubleshoot it all while on the road.

I really think that it comes down to choosing an HOA restriction-free area to start with.

[n2ize]

It's clever to make money selling secondhand pretend ham radio experience. Firsthand ham radio is its own flavor of pretend, a "home version" of professional communications service few people really need in today's cellphone world.

As a communications medium ham radio is obsolete. That's why I despise hams who act like their toy radios give them some kind of "professional" status. To me ham radio is about building and working on equipment. The communications part is secondary... a means of testing the equipment that you build.

[K7SGJ]

As a communications medium ham radio is obsolete. That's why I despise hams who act like their toy radios give them some kind of "professional" status. To me ham radio is about building and working on equipment. The communications part is secondary... a means of testing the equipment that you build.

This is indeed part of it, but in the day, it was also about talking with other hams around the world, learning about them, their culture, their country, and things of that nature. Remember the old mantra "Ham Operators-Radio Ambassador's of the World", or something like that?

Now you can talk to someone on the opposite side of the planet just by butt dialing a wrong number on your cell phone.

[KG4CGC]

If I had no shack to transmit from, and let's face it the more visible antennas are for transmitting unless you are talking about PSK, I would simply do a reel out type of antenna for monitoring.
Now, if you're talking about a Corsair, you can hear more on a 14' wire and ground rod than other newer radios can hear on 3 times as much wire. I even set up a 7' antenna last May at a hamfest on an MFJ tuner and made contacts to prove the rig's salt. Still, American hams are simply hypnotized by rice boxes and refuse to believe their own eyes and ears.

[N8YX]

Still, American hams are simply hypnotized by rice boxes and refuse to believe their own eyes and ears.

I'm gonna have to go with the barkeep on this one:

Drake. Cubic. Ten-Tec. This is what the main HF positions have evolved into as of today. Icom and Yaesu still factor prominently into the VHF/UHF equation, primarily because Drake, Cubic and Ten-Tec never built the equivalent of an FT-726R, FT-736 or R-7000.

My IC-751A/R71A/IC-2KL lineups will always have a place in the contest side of the shack. They'll probably see RTTY or other digital-mode duties when I address a few servicing and usability issues then set them up alongside the Ten-Tecs, which are great for extended SSB/CW use. But for general listening and casual DXing, the TR7/R7/L75 pairs or their Astro 103/1500ZA/ST-2B equivalents definitely get the nod. As do the Astro 15x series and the Astro Ds.

All else is probably going to be fixed or checked out then sold. It's good equipment but just doesn't fit into the current way of shack thinking.

[W3WN]

WTF?
§97.113(a)(2) "Prohibits communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules."

The "otherwise provided" exceptions are narrowly drawn for occasional "swap net" activity, to allow teachers to use an amateur station in classroom instruction, and to allow the control operator of a club station to be paid for the sort of code practice and bulletin transmissions conducted by W1AW -- in fact, the rule was written specifically for W1AW.97.113(a)(2) refers to the compensation paid to a control operator.

In other words, I can't hire you to operate my station or on my behalf -- unless it falls within specific permitted exceptions. The exception for W1AW code practice & bulletins allows the ARRL to pay someone's salary during the time that they're transmitting those items (and it covers anyone else who schedules such, so many times per day, so many frequencies per day).

And so on.

It does not refer to my renting a shack (in person or via remote) from you. Never has. The difference? When I rent a shack, I'm renting the infrastructure -- building, gear, antennas, etc. -- but I'm not paying YOU to operate.

[W3WN]

i think the thing that really gets me is in ADDITION to the annual fee, you still have to pay per minute/hour... even on the higher based plans after you get done with the "included minutes" I mean, sheesh $7K with 1500 minutes. My cellphone only charges me $80 for that...lol. At $7k, I they should provide a sexy maid serving me pinia colada's while im on the air. Talk about grabbing every extra bit of cash you can get your hands one...lol. The reason they charge like that is because they say it will stop radio hogs...lol. A nice little timer will do the same thing. Or perhaps a bandwidth limit? Allow 2gigs per day or whatever based on the membership level or something like that.Then don't use them.

No, seriously.

There are a lot of remote stations out there, and quite a few that are available for much smaller fees -- or no fees, except perhaps a nominal annual club membership. Look around.

We've toyed with the idea in my club. It would be nice to have a remote station available at certain times... for example, something KB3ERQ & I could access during our lunch breaks. But it's still merely a concept, it's a long way from implementation.

[W3WN]

Maybe I have a warped business acumen, but it would seem like a setup like this would be made for my demographic - twentysomethings who don't own their own home, don't have towers, might not even be in the same state in a few years. At least that way, they'd get the chance to operate a "real" station somewhere (even if personally the idea doesn't appeal).

But they've priced themselves completely out of that market. Guess those mortgages really aren't that cheap.I wonder if their agenda is to con, er, convince people with more shekels than smarts to help them pay for their Taj Mahal of a remote system. You can bet the ranch that the people who put this station together aren't charging themselves those fees!

As I said, though, there are other options. And this is becoming more & more common over time.

[W3WN]

< snip >
Okay, my feeling on this are and I don;t mean to offend anyone are... it stinks. To me the whole idea of ham radio is to do it yourself. That is the entire fun of the whole thing. You do the best you can with what you have. In general, I agree with you. That said, there are special circumstances.

Consider the college student who is not permitted a radio in his dorm room. A college club station may no longer exist or may be restricted in membership (unfair, but it happens), and a local shack is (for any of a number of reasons) not available.

Consider the retiree who is not permitted a radio in his retirement home or community... again, for any of a number of valid or invalid reasons.

Consider the working person who travels a lot, but is prevented or otherwise unable to operate a mobile station.

These come to mind as valid reasons to make a remote station available. I'm sure that there are others.

Now: As I mentioned a moment ago, it is for reasons like this that some members of my club have considered putting a remote station together, under club auspices. Of course, you'd have to be a member to use the system (like $20 a year will really set anyone back?) and we'd have to figure out how to pay the ancillary costs (maintenance, utilities, etc). But it could be done.

What this group in particular is doing is the other side of the coin. I feel that they're trying to exploit those who, due to circumstances, can not have a permanent shack or any shack. But their actions should not be an indictment of the process or capability to help out those who are truly in need.

[W5BRM]

Then don't use them.

No, seriously.

There are a lot of remote stations out there, and quite a few that are available for much smaller fees -- or no fees, except perhaps a nominal annual club membership. Look around.

We've toyed with the idea in my club. It would be nice to have a remote station available at certain times... for example, something KB3ERQ & I could access during our lunch breaks. But it's still merely a concept, it's a long way from implementation.

No worries there. I can barely afford my cellphone bill.

I agree the concept is nice. I've toyed with the idea myself back when i had money. I watched a K7AGE video 4 or 5 years ago where Randy accessed his home station in Grass Valley CA from a motel in Oklahoma using skype and logmein.com. If I could have a station at home to use remote from the road, i would do so in an instant.

My issue was with the $$$ charged AFTER paying the membership...and the $5k for just the beginning startup. Just insane cost imho.

I guess thats just me being a cheap bastid tho :lol:

[W3WN]

< snip >
Now, if I didn't have a place to build a remoteable station, maybe the big price tag on this solution would look better. I think it's way too expensive for most of us, but it's obviously not aimed at the guy on a budget. Rather, it's aimed at the guy with tons of money to burn, living in a condo.

It would be wonderful if our radio clubs would work on establishing this kind of station to be shared by their members/newbies. I'm planning to build one in my basement this winter. It won't be a superstation by any stretch of the imagination, but it will be good enough for someone to enjoy when I'm not using it.
< snip >Bill W3WH & I have been tossing this idea around...

Rent a self-storage space somewhere nearby.

Now, obviously, we would need to have power available. Telephone, wired Internet, or WiFi would have to be available as well. And naturally, since we'd have to mount antennas etc., we'd need appropriate permissions. To say nothing of a decent location (ie height, HAAT, and so forth) radio wise. But presuming for the moment that those are all available or can be arranged...

Rent on a small (5 x 8 is typical) space would be relatively marginal; around here, under $100 per month, often less, depending on the rental outfit and location (ie further away from population, cheaper the rent). That's plenty of space inside for a couple of racks of equipment, or a desk or two. Plenty of unoccupied roof space above for verticals, dipoles... some even have trees nearby.

Also, a few of these places may have "temporary" or "short term" office space available. (I know there used to be a facility outside of Bellefonte PA, near the Nittany Mall, called "Stow-Away" that had small offices for rent in addition to general storage space). It may cost a little more, but there'd be more "people room" for desks, chairs... even couches or sofas if you ever wanted to be physically present. Plus facilities.

So... find a place like one of these. Work out the arrangements. (Yeah, those are the hard parts). Say for arguments sake it will cost $100 a month for rental. Get 2 or 3 other hams to split the cost... and equally donate or share the cost of equipment purchase and so forth. In a month or two... remote station. (Or stations... if you're going to split it 2 or 3 ways, why not do multiple stations? You can operate "Radio A" on 10 while your buddy is on "Radio D" on 40...)

[KG4CGC]

Bill W3WH & I have been tossing this idea around...

Rent a self-storage space somewhere nearby.

Now, obviously, we would need to have power available. Telephone, wired Internet, or WiFi would have to be available as well. And naturally, since we'd have to mount antennas etc., we'd need appropriate permissions. To say nothing of a decent location (ie height, HAAT, and so forth) radio wise. But presuming for the moment that those are all available or can be arranged...

Rent on a small (5 x 8 is typical) space would be relatively marginal; around here, under $100 per month, often less, depending on the rental outfit and location (ie further away from population, cheaper the rent). That's plenty of space inside for a couple of racks of equipment, or a desk or two. Plenty of unoccupied roof space above for verticals, dipoles... some even have trees nearby.

Also, a few of these places may have "temporary" or "short term" office space available. (I know there used to be a facility outside of Bellefonte PA, near the Nittany Mall, called "Stow-Away" that had small offices for rent in addition to general storage space). It may cost a little more, but there'd be more "people room" for desks, chairs... even couches or sofas if you ever wanted to be physically present. Plus facilities.

So... find a place like one of these. Work out the arrangements. (Yeah, those are the hard parts). Say for arguments sake it will cost $100 a month for rental. Get 2 or 3 other hams to split the cost... and equally donate or share the cost of equipment purchase and so forth. In a month or two... remote station. (Or stations... if you're going to split it 2 or 3 ways, why not do multiple stations? You can operate "Radio A" on 10 while your buddy is on "Radio D" on 40...)

Lots of office space available these days. Often I see spaces go empty for 5 or more years. Work out a deal with the renter so that they make some money on it and explain it isn't a full on business but a drone location and maybe the renter will like the idea of a small rent being better than zero.

Former employer was bought out and the location after revisions ended up with a lot of empty office space that is for lease. No rentee has taken them up on their offer of office space. Clear location and the roof is 50' high.