Document Management Systems

[W3WN]

I've been tasked by my boss, the IT Director, to investigate electronic Document Management Systems.

Anyone have any experiences with any current packages currently available that they can share with me? Good, bad, rotten, indifferent?

Thanks

[NQ6U]

My favorite document management system:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/bizchair1_2275_933290556

[KC2UGV]

I've been tasked by my boss, the IT Director, to investigate electronic Document Management Systems.

Anyone have any experiences with any current packages currently available that they can share with me? Good, bad, rotten, indifferent?

Thanks

Documentum is top-notch, and supported by EMC. The only thing I didn't like about it was their upgrade path (Since being acquired by EMC) is a bit of a lurching thing, but that largely deals with the SDK's behind it. It's none the less, rock-solid and very featureful. And, expensive. Very.

SharePoint is kinda nice. Great integration with MS Office products, and client OS's. Licensing is off the wall, and ridiculous, but YMMV depending on your sales rep.

Alfresco is open-source, and I was exploring it as a Documentum replacement at one point. The only reason I never moved further on it was upper management decided they didn't want open-source "freeware" in the enterprise (Shrugs).

I would, at this point in time, have to give all three of them a serious look, and figure out which one works best. It's been a while since I've implemented one.

[WØTKX]

Cyco Automanager is the only one I used to work with extensively. And that was years ago.

Used to be only for CAD, but it covers a lot more now. Interesting stuff, maybe worth a look.

http://www.netconcept.com.hk/products/cyco/

[K7SGJ]

My favorite document management system:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/bizchair1_2275_933290556

Seems a tad on the small side. Got anything in a 16 cubic yard size?

[NQ6U]

Seems a tad on the small side. Got anything in a 16 cubic yard size?

Here ya go:

http://diamondprovides.com/dumpster-lowboy.jpg

[K7SGJ]

Here ya go:

http://diamondprovides.com/dumpster-lowboy.jpg

Well, if that's all ya got, I guess it'll work if I can get it dumped every couple of days.

[n6hcm]

the thing about document management ... you have to get buy-in *everywhere* and get *everyone* trained. any squeaky wheel gumming up the works screws it up for everyone else.

[W3WN]

the thing about document management ... you have to get buy-in *everywhere* and get *everyone* trained. any squeaky wheel gumming up the works screws it up for everyone else.Oh, believe me, I know.

Back when I worked at the engineering firm, I was asked to set up a "demo" server using the Xerox system at the time. After 2 months of non-use, the project got scrapped. Why 2 months of non-use? In-fighting amongst multiple departments over whether or not we needed a document management system... why don't we use IBM (a client) instead of Xerox... will this handle CAD drawings out of Microstation... what if CAD buys into it? what if they don't?... etc etc etc yada yada yada.

Here's the thing, though...

Our agency management software, TAM, is archaic. (Not that I'm complaining, it's because I knew dBase that I got this job). It handles documents... poorly. Whatever package(s) I find are going to have to be a system that we can get to work, more or less, with TAM. That's going to be one of my headaches. So our choices will be limited.

That said, odds are pretty good that whatever I recommend, if the price is right, will be accepted.

And the owners have made it quite clear: To put it bluntly, We're going to be moving forward on this. If we have a user who refuses to learn the new stuff, they know where the doors are.

... we finally moved up from Office 2003 to Office 2010 about a month ago. Several users either quit or announced their retirement about the same time, a few privately told me that they were 'too old' to learn anything new, like the Ribbon interface. All righty then...

[KC2UGV]

Oh, believe me, I know.

Back when I worked at the engineering firm, I was asked to set up a "demo" server using the Xerox system at the time. After 2 months of non-use, the project got scrapped. Why 2 months of non-use? In-fighting amongst multiple departments over whether or not we needed a document management system... why don't we use IBM (a client) instead of Xerox... will this handle CAD drawings out of Microstation... what if CAD buys into it? what if they don't?... etc etc etc yada yada yada.

Here's the thing, though...

Our agency management software, TAM, is archaic. (Not that I'm complaining, it's because I knew dBase that I got this job). It handles documents... poorly. Whatever package(s) I find are going to have to be a system that we can get to work, more or less, with TAM. That's going to be one of my headaches. So our choices will be limited.

That said, odds are pretty good that whatever I recommend, if the price is right, will be accepted.

And the owners have made it quite clear: To put it bluntly, We're going to be moving forward on this. If we have a user who refuses to learn the new stuff, they know where the doors are.

... we finally moved up from Office 2003 to Office 2010 about a month ago. Several users either quit or announced their retirement about the same time, a few privately told me that they were 'too old' to learn anything new, like the Ribbon interface. All righty then...

How many users do you have, and what is TAM?

[KG4NEL]

... we finally moved up from Office 2003 to Office 2010 about a month ago. Several users either quit or announced their retirement about the same time, a few privately told me that they were 'too old' to learn anything new, like the Ribbon interface. All righty then...

lulz

Granted, I'm not a fan of what they did in '10 to a lot of the interface. But the ribbon thing has been around for nearly 7 years...

[W3WN]

How many users do you have, and what is TAM?~ 130 users (all but a few full time) and growing.

TAM, aka Applied TAM, stands for The Agency Manager. It's a software application for insurance agents and brokers.

[W3WN]

lulz

Granted, I'm not a fan of what they did in '10 to a lot of the interface. But the ribbon thing has been around for nearly 7 years...We skipped Office 2007. The primary reason that we finally ditched Office 2003 is that it is approaching End Of Support (Life).

(We haven't updated Exchange yet, that's awaiting a new server. )

This is also why we just phased out Windows XP. Well, almost. It was still running on the intern machines (which weren't robust enough for Vista), and a handful of laptops. Well, thanks to about 20 refurbished Dell Optiplex 755's, the interns are now on Vista. Offhand, we have 3 old IBM laptops and 1 or 2 virtual machines that still run XP. The laptops are due to be completely phased out soon, and at some point, we'll replace the VM's with Vista or Win 7 VM's.

[KC2UGV]

~ 130 users (all but a few full time) and growing.

TAM, aka Applied TAM, stands for The Agency Manager. It's a software application for insurance agents and brokers.

For ~130 users, Documentum wont be much different than SharePoint licensing (Again, depending on models given to you by your sales rep), but either way it sounds like there will be some development work to get the integration into place.

Without knowing the details of the integration, I would budget 3 developers 3 months to complete it (High level estimate), regardless of system chosen.

And, since I presume you'll be one of the developers: Do you prefer Java or .Net development? Java is used by Documentum, and .Net is used by SharePoint.

Personally? I would suggest Documentum, in this case. Java developers proficient in Webtop (The SDK for DCTM) tend to be pretty good developers; whereas .Net developers come at a dime a dozen, and tend not to know their ass from their elbows (Frankly speaking).

And, to start (Since I am recommending DCTM), here is where you can begin: http://www.emc.com/solutions/industry/financial-services/insurance.htm

[W3WN]

3 months? That's not too bad... but we're no where near that point in time yet.

Yes, I will probably be one of the developers. Since I'm the in-house "expert" on TAM, that's almost a given.

I know a little Java, not much... but I don't think it will matter either way.

[KB3LAZ]

What is the ribbon thing? Are you talking about the paperclip that grows light bulbs and makes asinine suggestions? We still use office 2000 at work...it was like taking three steps back. Then again, I am used to using whatever I want on my home PC. I had never used any office programs at work before. At GM and Ryder we had MS but I was always connected to MGO or ALS 400 via remote. I really don't miss logistics.

[n6hcm]

no. newer versions of office have removed the menu bar and replaced it with a "ribbon" that reveals menu bar functions selectively. for those who have used earlier versions of office it may not be intuitive but it's hardly difficult.

[KB3LAZ]

no. newer versions of office have removed the menu bar and replaced it with a "ribbon" that reveals menu bar functions selectively. for those who have used earlier versions of office it may not be intuitive but it's hardly difficult.

I have never seen ribbons. You must mean the tabs. I didn't have a problem with them. Then again MS office is not the only software suite that uses them and I have kept up with software and OS over the years. I can see how it would be a pain if you haven't.

I have the opposite problem at work. I have not used XP in years and going back to it was a pain. It isn't as bad any more but I still get frustrated as I don't use it at home and I don't use classic mode on my home pc.

[WØTKX]

Hey Ron, did you check out the Cyco link? Just curious.

[W3WN]

Hey Ron, did you check out the Cyco link? Just curious.
Not yet, we had a minor crisis at work that took up most of our free time.

[WØTKX]

Imagine that.

When I worked with their stuff, the compatibility with legacy systems was better than most...

[W3WN]

Hey Ron, did you check out the Cyco link? Just curious.I'm looking at it now.

It's impressive, but it is definitely engineering-oriented. Most of our documents are files in Word, Excel, and assorted PDF's. Not many engineering drawings.

[KC2UGV]

I'm looking at it now.

It's impressive, but it is definitely engineering-oriented. Most of our documents are files in Word, Excel, and assorted PDF's. Not many engineering drawings.

Aha... In which case, I would highly recommend Documentum. You've just nailed it's bread and butter: Control, and revision tracking for a document's life cycle.

[W3WN]

Aha... In which case, I would highly recommend Documentum. You've just nailed it's bread and butter: Control, and revision tracking for a document's life cycle.
Impressive web site. Now I have to figure out where they actually describe what they're doing... ie, I have to get past the smoke & mirrors.

[KC2UGV]

Impressive web site. Now I have to figure out where they actually describe what they're doing... ie, I have to get past the smoke & mirrors.

Literally: The software allows you to upload the document into it's repository, via a person uploading it in Webtop, the interface; or via some programmatic construct. Around it [The document], you can build security, workflows, revision control, OCR, etc etc. Basically, if you need to do something with a document, Documentum does it. It was quite literally built for document life-cycle management.

An example of what is can do is:

I have a business that does a lot with contracts. I need to be able to pull a contract at a point in time to see what it said. Documentum will allow me to pull the version of that document on date X. Now, in that same contract, it says that it expires in 2 years. So, I set up a workflow so that in 2 years, it will pull that contract, and attach it to a boiler plate template, and send it to Contract Origination team. Contract origination team marks it as "Renewal", so then it goes to the Customer Renewal team, who then rejects it. That team hates this client, so they send it back to Origination to have them work a brand new contract. All this time, Documentum marks this contract with date stamps so you can see how long each team has it.

So, now, a new contract is signed. You scan the new contract in, and it becomes a new revision of this contract. You want to index all your contracts (For fast searching), so Documentum runs it through the OCR as the first workflow step, and places it in the OCR queue. After it's OCR'd, the text is attached to the scanned contract as an attachment.

Now, let's say you really hated this client, so the contract was never renewed. Documentum knows, however, that people get sued, or sue other years after a contract is over. So, it keeps it in the repository forever. It's just moved to slow-store, to not kill your indexing, but allowing discovery to be able to find it when they need to sue the pants off that pissy customer.

It quite literally, is the tool to use to track a lot of documents, over their entire life cycle.

[W3WN]

Corey,

For some reason, my edit to indicate I'd finally found their PDF didn't work. But I did get it.

I'm going to look into this. The kicker will be how (if) we can integrate it with our existing software. Applied Software to date is of no help... our tech contact is only permitted to tell us that they support document management, so they're not recommending anyone else's product. (Lovely). But there has to be a way to do it.

From your description, though, I take it that the actual document storage is cloud based? Or is there an option for local storage? There are the usual client confidentiality issues to be concerned with (HIPPA, HITECH, and that ilk).

[KC2UGV]

Corey,

For some reason, my edit to indicate I'd finally found their PDF didn't work. But I did get it.

I'm going to look into this. The kicker will be how (if) we can integrate it with our existing software. Applied Software to date is of no help... our tech contact is only permitted to tell us that they support document management, so they're not recommending anyone else's product. (Lovely). But there has to be a way to do it.

From your description, though, I take it that the actual document storage is cloud based? Or is there an option for local storage? There are the usual client confidentiality issues to be concerned with (HIPPA, HITECH, and that ilk).

The document repository is all on a database. I recall they supported Oracle, MS SQL, and MySQL. With MySQL, they said,"It would work, but we can't support it". Oracle supports at-rest encryption and TLS connection for the TNS connectors. And, obviously, Documentum supports SSL.

You can also get a Documentum "SaaS" solution, where they provision a VM with the most up to date software, and you use that. But, it sounds like you don't want it anyways.

[W3WN]

The document repository is all on a database. I recall they supported Oracle, MS SQL, and MySQL. With MySQL, they said,"It would work, but we can't support it". Oracle supports at-rest encryption and TLS connection for the TNS connectors. And, obviously, Documentum supports SSL.

You can also get a Documentum "SaaS" solution, where they provision a VM with the most up to date software, and you use that. But, it sounds like you don't want it anyways.Well, let's not get too ahead of ourselves here...

If the repository is located "in house" as opposed to out in the cloud, that's a plus. I'm not worried about MySQL at the moment... we are running it for a few in-house things, but that's not a deal breaker.

I'll get a hold of someone there and get more info. Although I'm sure I'll get a full court press from their sales rep, once I do so.

[KC2UGV]

Well, let's not get too ahead of ourselves here...

If the repository is located "in house" as opposed to out in the cloud, that's a plus. I'm not worried about MySQL at the moment... we are running it for a few in-house things, but that's not a deal breaker.

I'll get a hold of someone there and get more info. Although I'm sure I'll get a full court press from their sales rep, once I do so.

EMC sales people aren't too bad (At least the ones I've spoken with). The one nice thing, is there's probably already a solution done for what you need. If not, their partners are generally top notch.