Narrowing the search (boat anchors)

[KB3LAZ]

Having been off the air for about 18 months now, I have had a lot of time to think about possible setups. In that time my thoughts have evolved or at least changed direction more than a few times. This is not atypical of me, though. However, I have hit a few snags. With rigs of such a vintage there is only so much information that can be found online. Yes, there is a lot of it but it is for very specific uses, namely, AM. In and of itself that is fine but only a portion of what I need.

Not so much of a snag as curiosity. I see that the Johnson Valiant has the capability of not only AM and CW but SSB. However, the question is, aside from being a good AM Xmiter, how well does it work for CW and or SSB use? From what I understand the Valiant has not side tone generate, this can be fixed externally, however.

The reason I am curious about SSB is because I want 160m SSB and my planned SSB ragcew setup is a collins KWM-2(A). The problem (as you most likely know) there is no provision for 160m.

Now for the snag. Receiver wise I have my heart set on a few different collins models. If I want SSB coverage then it looks like the most logical option would be the 75A-4. The problem with that is that most claim that AM was an after thought with this piece. I suppose (if the Valiant were a decent SSB rig) I could spring for two...Not the easiest task it would seem. One paired with a 75A-2 for 160-10m AM. Another Paired with a 75A-4 for 160m AM/SSB and CW use(I realize that AM RX audio would be a compromise at best).

Another reason that seems ideal is that the EFJ matchbox is 80-10 and I wanted to stick with the same size and vintage. Therefore I could pair the AM setup with an open wire feed doublet for 80-10m. This should work okay as the intention would not be DX, obviously. Of course I could use a dedicated 160m dipole for the other setup.

Now, this situation deals with a lot of what ifs. No worries, I have backup plans. If more logical I could forego 160m and go with dedicated setups for AM, SSB, and CW.

Another thought is the addition of RX antenna. Now, the most logical way I can think of this is to use TX and RX antennas and forego the relay. I was looking at a dual reversible pennant loop setup for 160/80/40 RX. Thus giving me four directions. The question, can the RX be muted manually with each transmission?

So, my mind is made up on my KWM-2 or 2A for 80-10m SSB but for 160m SSB and or AM, and CW my mind is wide open. In fact I even thought about going for a dedicated CW setup with something like an Eico 720, VFO, and Drake 2B.

Okay, ready to accept my punishment for any sacrilegious statements or assumptions I have made. I know we have a lot of hams that appreciate boat anchors and AM here as well. So will be very thankful for any advice offered up. Vintage or even rock bound CW ops may be a bit harder to come by but I would sure love some input on that as well.

As I said, my mind is wide open. I have done a lot of homework too. At least on what seems like the most logical gear.

Logical TX list would be something like

32V3 (lacking 160)
DX-100
Valiant
Viking 2 (a bit more work and hard to find in decent shape)

RX

Collins 75A-1/2 (best bet of the collins due to wide RX)
NC-300/303

Yes there are others but these seem to be best suited to my desire. Of course I could be wrong.

Once again, thanks if any info or suggestions could be added.

[W3WN]

Trav,

First, I haven't been ignoring your PM's... I just haven't had a good chance to sit down and answer them. I will, just bear with me.

Second, are you SURE the KWM-2A won't do 160? I know that it has the capability for an extra bank of crystals (one of the big differences between it and the KWM-2), and that these can be used for the WARC bands, CAP, MARS, etc. And I have heard of some of the guys in the Collins Collectors Association that were able to get their KWM's (or S-Lines) on 160 -- but I don't know if this was just adding a few crystals, or if they had to make any mods (I don't recommend the mods)

Third, I'd wonder about the statement you were told about the 75A-4. AM an afterthought? On that receiver? I've heard AM on more than a few 75A's, and it's usually fantastic. Again, for specifics, I'd suggest checking with someone in the CCA.

More later...

[KB3LAZ]

Trav,

First, I haven't been ignoring your PM's... I just haven't had a good chance to sit down and answer them. I will, just bear with me.

Second, are you SURE the KWM-2A won't do 160? I know that it has the capability for an extra bank of crystals (one of the big differences between it and the KWM-2), and that these can be used for the WARC bands, CAP, MARS, etc. And I have heard of some of the guys in the Collins Collectors Association that were able to get their KWM's (or S-Lines) on 160 -- but I don't know if this was just adding a few crystals, or if they had to make any mods (I don't recommend the mods)

Third, I'd wonder about the statement you were told about the 75A-4. AM an afterthought? On that receiver? I've heard AM on more than a few 75A's, and it's usually fantastic. Again, for specifics, I'd suggest checking with someone in the CCA.

More later...

No worries, I know how it can be. I work a lot as well.

As for the KWM-2A, having talked to people you can add xtals for WARC, or so I have been told. I dont know about 160m. I´m not sure how that would work as there seem to be no provisions. However, if that is the case and not astronomical to add then I may not have a problem at all.

The reality is that I wont go without a modern rig so I will still have 160 in one form or another but my interest in modern gear is QRP. Not likely the best band choice.

As for the A4. A lot of what I read looks down (heavily) on it. There seem to be a few that use them on AMfone.net but many more that are not fans.

What I do know is that when it comes to the collins gear for AM (ham bands only gear) the A1/A2 seem to be the popular choice. I have read a lot about that having to do with Xtal vs mechanical filtering and availability. There do seem to be after market reproduction filters for the A4 though. Not cheap but a fraction of the cost of a second rig. If that RX would work fine and SSB/CW work is decent on the Valiant it would solve a lot of problems as well.

IE

Valiant-75A-4 combo for AM/CW 160-10 and 160 SSB.
KWM-2A for 80-10m SSB (maybe WARC but I need to do further research)
KX3 for SSB/CW QRP

These have been thoughts I have had in the back of my mind for awhile. It would be a start. There are many more things I would like to add to the list over time but AM-SSB-CW would be taken care of right off the bat. ...I could do it with modern gear but there is no fun in that, for me.

Thanks for the leads. Might have to talk to Glen. He knows the collins line in and out.

[W3WN]

One other thing to consider is that if you want to do AM on other bands (mainly 75 & 40) with vintage gear, there's a LOT of good boat anchors out there.

I used to have a lot of fun with an HT-37 and an SB-301, later replaced by an SX-111. There used to be a bunch of OF's who'd talk on 10 Meter AM late nights, including a "Ghost Net" that met after midnight. I think KA3NQA (Now K4NQA) and I were the last two "Ghosts" to join the group, back in the mid 1980's. After that, they either moved away (or into nursing homes) or became silent keys.

I miss that setup. I am going to have to get another one, one of these days, as long as I don't have to pay a small fortune to get them due to collectors and r@t b@sturds.

[WØTKX]

How modern can you "stand"? :dunno:

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/ft902dm.html

[KB3LAZ]

How modern can you "stand"? :dunno:

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/ft902dm.html

25-30 years before that. :D

[KB3LAZ]

One other thing to consider is that if you want to do AM on other bands (mainly 75 & 40) with vintage gear, there's a LOT of good boat anchors out there.

I used to have a lot of fun with an HT-37 and an SB-301, later replaced by an SX-111. There used to be a bunch of OF's who'd talk on 10 Meter AM late nights, including a "Ghost Net" that met after midnight. I think KA3NQA (Now K4NQA) and I were the last two "Ghosts" to join the group, back in the mid 1980's. After that, they either moved away (or into nursing homes) or became silent keys.

I miss that setup. I am going to have to get another one, one of these days, as long as I don't have to pay a small fortune to get them due to collectors and r@t b@sturds.

75/40m will likely be my "bread and butter" as that seems to be where a majority of activity is. Also, that is where my activity on SSB is. I'd like to look at something that puts out 100w at least. I have been looking at the Valiant for quite some time as it is one that was suggested to me on numerous occasions. Both here and elsewhere.

Though, if I were to do without 160m then the 32V2/75A-1 looks to be quite a nice setup. I have spent a bit of time with the 75A-4 and S-Line in my grandfathers shack when I was younger. I suppose that is part of the reason that such rigs appeal to me.

Edit: One thing that worries me with previously owed gear of that era would be the mods. Many of the radios out there have a hell of a list of mods. From what I understand a lot of them do good but more do harm. Also if they were poorly implemented that could be problematic. When going this route it will be a must to have a live demo. So semi local will be a must. A few hundred miles or so. I am flexible. The good thing is that there are a few people around here and a few that I talk to on SSB that are into AM. So I should be able to find someone that has a good piece or two for sale when I am ready. Turn key is unlike as I like odd pairs, lol.

That being said I have seen a few 32V2/75A-1(2) combos up for sale over the past year for a decent price. Not full resto's but recapped, etc. As well as a Valiant/303 combo. One in NJ and the other in NY.

I guess the real test is to find someone that uses boat anchors on AM when I get home. Maybe get a chance to play with a few setups.

[KB3LAZ]

A rare bird that does interest me would be Eldico. Finding info is a bit of a pain in the ass though. I imagine finding the units would be even harder.

[KB3LAZ]

Hum. Another though. Could go with my original plan and get a 32V2/75A1 setup for 80-10m AM, and try out a Drake C line for CW and 160m AM. I dont know about the TX but the RX sure gets many compliments, particularly for its era. I know a few people on here have had drake C lines (or B lines). Any comments on how well they work for CW and if they are acceptable for a small amount of AM use.

I dont know, it just hit me last night while looking at a few 2B's. I though, a C line, why not.

Sounding like I may have answered my own question.

32V2/75A1/270G
KWM2A/30L1/312B/516F + 75S3 for a second RX
Drake TX4C/R4C/MS-4(AC-4)
Elecraft KX3 for my QRP needs

I like open Line so something like the EFJ matchbox will be in the mix or I will feed to a balun outside my shack. Bouncing ideas around helps me decide. I would still love some input. I can continue to tweak the plan. But I can see the picture in my head now and the shack looks good.

Collins A Line to my left, computer, KX3, Rotator Control, antenna switches, etc in the middle, and split level for the 4C/KWM2 line on my right.

[W3WN]

Trav,

I had a C-Line for several years. Mine had had the Sherwood filter mods, so it was about as top of the line as you could get. Really enjoyed the rigs, although I never got around to crystalling them for the WARC bands. And because they'd had the filter mods, they were comparable to the "top of the line" contest-quality rigs out at the time.

I only had one major problem with them. One of the finals in the T4XC popped while I was in the middle of a long ragchew... got replacements, neutralized the final cage, and I was back in business.

So, if I thought so highly of them, why did I pass them on to someone else? At the time, they were my only working HF rig (My HT-37 was down for repairs... blown transformer), and they took about 20 minutes to properly warm up. So, I'd come home from work, spend time with the family, and have about 15 minutes to myself before dinner... but unless I'd had the foresight to turn the equipment on as soon as I got home, by the time the gear was warm, my available operating time was gone.

Today, if I had the chance (and the shekels) to get another C-Line, I would. Since the Omni VI is now my main rig, I would have no problem using the Drakes for light or occasional duty. Of course, I'd have to find a new home for the Swan 3Drifty first...

[KB3LAZ]

Trav,

I had a C-Line for several years. Mine had had the Sherwood filter mods, so it was about as top of the line as you could get. Really enjoyed the rigs, although I never got around to crystalling them for the WARC bands. And because they'd had the filter mods, they were comparable to the "top of the line" contest-quality rigs out at the time.

I only had one major problem with them. One of the finals in the T4XC popped while I was in the middle of a long ragchew... got replacements, neutralized the final cage, and I was back in business.

So, if I thought so highly of them, why did I pass them on to someone else? At the time, they were my only working HF rig (My HT-37 was down for repairs... blown transformer), and they took about 20 minutes to properly warm up. So, I'd come home from work, spend time with the family, and have about 15 minutes to myself before dinner... but unless I'd had the foresight to turn the equipment on as soon as I got home, by the time the gear was warm, my available operating time was gone.

Today, if I had the chance (and the shekels) to get another C-Line, I would. Since the Omni VI is now my main rig, I would have no problem using the Drakes for light or occasional duty. Of course, I'd have to find a new home for the Swan 3Drifty first...

Thanks for the info. That sounds good to me. Warm of time is of no concern to me as most of what I have listed will take time to warm up. Besides, when I get home from work I cook dinner. Most of the time that takes about 30 minutes and then there is time to eat said dinner, spend time with the wife, etc. I dont do much in the way of sleeping. I´d just turn everything on when I got home from work. In fact, that is what I have always done, though most of my rigs were SS it was something I picked up from being in my grandfathers shack as a child.

As for the type of operation, it would be casual for straight key night, etc. Though, I do have to dust off the practice oscillator first...:P I can not use the rigs on CW if I do not know how, lol. It has been a long time since I have practiced sending. But I have been using a PC program to practice listening, casually, at the moment. I need to devote more time to it so that I can actually retain the information.

Also, for the C-Line, the nice thing is that they are not lacking in numbers. A google search show dozens of partial and complete stations for sale. Decent or better in both price range and condition. Many of which are semi local. I know they likely will not be for sale when I get home but I am sure more than a few will pop up when the time comes.

I will likely try to get a KWM-2A station setup first as it will be my primary setup for ragchew. Then the AM setup, followed by CW, and finally QRP. I may actually get the amp for the KX3 at some point too in case QRP isnt cutting it at that moment. Yeah, I know, I commented on it being silly but hey, so am I. :D

Again, thanks. As you can tell, I am excited to get back in the game when I get home. I did not realize just how much I enjoyed the hobby until I was without it for an extended period of time.

[W3WN]

I'm surprised Fred hasn't chimed in here yet. If you're serious about Drake gear, he'd be one of the first people I'd suggest talking to.

[KB3LAZ]

I'm surprised Fred hasn't chimed in here yet. If you're serious about Drake gear, he'd be one of the first people I'd suggest talking to.

You know, you are right, it totally slipped my mind! Fred is not far away, either. He is likely busy with work at the moment.

[WØTKX]

25-30 years before that. :D

In those days, there were many restrictions on 160 as it was shared with other services.

IIRC, 200 watts was the max, and in some areas it was not permitted at all.

So the older radios didn't often come with 160.

[K7SGJ]

Thanks for the info. That sounds good to me. Warm of time is of no concern to me as most of what I have listed will take time to warm up. Besides, when I get home from work I cook dinner. Most of the time that takes about 30 minutes and then there is time to eat said dinner, spend time with the wife, etc. I dont do much in the way of sleeping. I´d just turn everything on when I got home from work. In fact, that is what I have always done, though most of my rigs were SS it was something I picked up from being in my grandfathers shack as a child.

As for the type of operation, it would be casual for straight key night, etc. Though, I do have to dust off the practice oscillator first...:P I can not use the rigs on CW if I do not know how, lol. It has been a long time since I have practiced sending. But I have been using a PC program to practice listening, casually, at the moment. I need to devote more time to it so that I can actually retain the information.

Also, for the C-Line, the nice thing is that they are not lacking in numbers. A google search show dozens of partial and complete stations for sale. Decent or better in both price range and condition. Many of which are semi local. I know they likely will not be for sale when I get home but I am sure more than a few will pop up when the time comes.

I will likely try to get a KWM-2A station setup first as it will be my primary setup for ragchew. Then the AM setup, followed by CW, and finally QRP. I may actually get the amp for the KX3 at some point too in case QRP isnt cutting it at that moment. Yeah, I know, I commented on it being silly but hey, so am I. :D

Again, thanks. As you can tell, I am excited to get back in the game when I get home. I did not realize just how much I enjoyed the hobby until I was without it for an extended period of time.


Wives can be a lot like that, too.

[KB3LAZ]

In those days, there were many restrictions on 160 as it was shared with other services.

IIRC, 200 watts was the max, and in some areas it was not permitted at all.

So the older radios didn't often come with 160.

I have heard that mentioned before, long ago. Hadn't given it much thought. I ought to read up on it a bit as it is good to know such things. Thanks for the info. :)

[W3WN]

I have heard that mentioned before, long ago. Hadn't given it much thought. I ought to read up on it a bit as it is good to know such things. Thanks for the info. :)Oh yeah. You missed out on an interesting era...

The short story is simply that the US government used the 160 meter band as part of the LORAN radio navigation service. I'm pretty sure that at other points in time, other governments may have done so as well. Anyway, US Amateurs had secondary use of the band.

An individual's use of 160 depending on the state the lived in, and how close they were to selected LORAN stations. You either had low power, very low power, or no access at all to the various band segments.

Once LORAN (specifically LORAN-A as other LORAN services came into play, if memory serves) was phased out, use of 160 was expanded. Eventually, we got the whole band back with no restrictions.

That's why 160 was always a challenge. Not that it isn't today, but on top of the usual... challenges... regarding antennas and propagation, you also had to deal with massive QRM from LORAN.

In a word: Yuk

[KB3LAZ]

Oh yeah. You missed out on an interesting era...

The short story is simply that the US government used the 160 meter band as part of the LORAN radio navigation service. I'm pretty sure that at other points in time, other governments may have done so as well. Anyway, US Amateurs had secondary use of the band.

An individual's use of 160 depending on the state the lived in, and how close they were to selected LORAN stations. You either had low power, very low power, or no access at all to the various band segments.

Once LORAN (specifically LORAN-A as other LORAN services came into play, if memory serves) was phased out, use of 160 was expanded. Eventually, we got the whole band back with no restrictions.

That's why 160 was always a challenge. Not that it isn't today, but on top of the usual... challenges... regarding antennas and propagation, you also had to deal with massive QRM from LORAN.

In a word: Yuk

I thought that finding room (for some people) was enough of a challenge. o0

That aside. Been doing some reading and it looks like WARC on the KWM-2A is easily doable for some bands but a pita on others. IE...you simply use xtals but loading tends to be a pain. 12m is said to give zero problems. Also. depending on SN one may have to do some cap trimming for a compromise between amateur bands and war bands. Or so it reads. I have seen nothing on 160m.

Not that I am really worried about that. 80/40/20 are and have always been the main bands I talk on. The KX3 will suffice on the warc bands. Will have a 100w amp too. No problems there.

I have had a few offers for test drives on the Collins and Johnson gear when I get home but Cali is a bit of a drive. May do it anyway to show Pili cross country.