Motor oil and zinc.

[w2amr]

A friend of mine built a model A street rod, with a new smallblock Chevy engine. 5 lobes of the cam were wiped out within 30 minutes of start up. Never use low zinc motor oil , in a new or rebuilt engine with a flat tappet cam. Yesterday I changed the oil in the Chevelle, and used Valvoline VR-1 racing oil, which has elevated levels of zinc and phosphorus .
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/10/18/tech-101-zinc-in-oil-and-its-effects-on-older-engines/

[ad4mg]

Your posting prompted me to read quite a bit about this George. The whole issue sounds like a lose-lose proposition. It appears the racing oils do contain elevated levels of zinc and phosphorous, but lack the detergents needed in a street engine. Synthetics seem to lack the ability to keep the zinc in suspension.

I was previously unaware of the situation with modern motor oils. I'll have to see if my neighbor across the street is up to speed on this... he has a very clean '64 Chevy-II with a hot little 327 in it. He'll be firing it up in just about 20 minutes. Saturday and Sunday mornings, he pulls out at exactly 8:00, weather permitting, for his weekend cruise. Kinda odd, eh? You can set your watch by him!

[PA5COR]

Since my iffy little 1 liter injection engine of the Hyundai Atoz is used quite well ( i drive quite fast where i can) i use high quality oil, added Teflon to that ( special mix i wrote about here) tuned the engine, and will replace the automatic gear oil this next December.
Topspeed of the little car was 130 KM/H now 155 - 160 Km/h
Tuning added 11 Hp to the 55 Hp it had, but the whole car weighs just 833 kilo's as it stands on the road, or 1800 pounds.
Interflon 25 Teflon is the name, they also have additives for gearboxes.
http://www.kemi.is/mediafolder/pds/FIN_25_3038_PDS.pdf

[N8YX]

Would switching to roller lifters alleviate this, George?

The motorcycling community is faced with the opposite problem - especially those of us whose bikes are wet clutch: Molydisulfide or Teflon added to the oil will cause clutch failure, and almost all "Energy Conserving" oils have one or both present.

[w2amr]

Would switching to roller lifters alleviate this, George?

The motorcycling community is faced with the opposite problem - especially those of us whose bikes are wet clutch: Molydisulfide or Teflon added to the oil will cause clutch failure, and almost all "Energy Conserving" oils have one or both present.
From what I read, engines using roller lifter cams should be ok Fred.

[w2amr]

Your posting prompted me to read quite a bit about this George. The whole issue sounds like a lose-lose proposition. It appears the racing oils do contain elevated levels of zinc and phosphorous, but lack the detergents needed in a street engine. Synthetics seem to lack the ability to keep the zinc in suspension.

I was previously unaware of the situation with modern motor oils. I'll have to see if my neighbor across the street is up to speed on this... he has a very clean '64 Chevy-II with a hot little 327 in it. He'll be firing it up in just about 20 minutes. Saturday and Sunday mornings, he pulls out at exactly 8:00, weather permitting, for his weekend cruise. Kinda odd, eh? You can set your watch by him!The lack of detergents is a concern. Maybe I'll go back to the type SN/SM every other change.

[K7SGJ]

Yep, the S&M oil should whip it.

[KB3LAZ]

Sometimes I drink said oil. There are places here that try to pass it off as coffee.

[suddenseer]

Thanks for the lesson George. I am not a racing enthusiast, and lack your skills in rebuilding a junk yard piece into a true classic. I was raised in a Valvoline home. About 20 years ago, my car blew a head gasket. I visited the mechanic who repaired it. He showed me the engine sans heads. It was very clean, and gunk less. He showed me two other engines in for similar repairs with heads removed. There was crud, and gunk all over. He stated that both owners used Quaker State oil, and this is what non racing Quaker State engines look like. I had to take his word, because I had never seen that before.

My last two, new trucks were filled with Mobile 1 from the first 3000 mile break in change. The first truck, a 2001 GMC Sierra 1500 had well over 300K on it when I traded it in. I never put a dime in power train repair. I did the 30K mile tranny fluid suction swap as well. The newer vehicles I changed the oil when the computer indicated 20% oil life left. Often that was 5K miles.

[w2amr]

Thanks for the lesson George. I am not a racing enthusiast, and lack your skills in rebuilding a junk yard piece into a true classic. I was raised in a Valvoline home. About 20 years ago, my car blew a head gasket. I visited the mechanic who repaired it. He showed me the engine sans heads. It was very clean, and gunk less. He showed me two other engines in for similar repairs with heads removed. There was crud, and gunk all over. He stated that both owners used Quaker State oil, and this is what non racing Quaker State engines look like. I had to take his word, because I had never seen that before.

My last two, new trucks were filled with Mobile 1 from the first 3000 mile break in change. The first truck, a 2001 GMC Sierra 1500 had well over 300K on it when I traded it in. I never put a dime in power train repair. I did the 30K mile tranny fluid suction swap as well. The newer vehicles I changed the oil when the computer indicated 20% oil life left. Often that was 5K miles.5K is the service number on all of the vehicles in our rental fleet too. I also do the automatic transmissions at 30K. I have opened up several gas engines with over 100 k on them. They were clean as a whistle inside, and we use Parts Master oil made by Valvoline.

[suddenseer]

Wow, I just used my twisted common sense and stumbled onto something that the pros do.. For once, I must be doing something right. ;)

[w2amr]

Thanks for the lesson George. I am not a racing enthusiast, and lack your skills in rebuilding a junk yard piece into a true classic. I was raised in a Valvoline home. About 20 years ago, my car blew a head gasket. I visited the mechanic who repaired it. He showed me the engine sans heads. It was very clean, and gunk less. He showed me two other engines in for similar repairs with heads removed. There was crud, and gunk all over. He stated that both owners used Quaker State oil, and this is what non racing Quaker State engines look like. I had to take his word, because I had never seen that before.

Chances are ,all the gunk you saw was a result of seldom/never changing the oil. From what I have seen, Quaker State is pretty good stuff.

[w2amr]

Wow, I just used my twisted common sense and stumbled onto something that the pros do.. For once, I must be doing something right. ;)Sounds like you are on the right track.:mrgreen:

[suddenseer]

Sounds like you are on the right track.:mrgreen:I will say, today's vehicles are easier to remember the service requirements. Between the dashboard warnings, the On Star, the Emailed warnings/reminders from the manufacturer. I got emails telling me the right front tire was 2 psi under the low limit. It happened to be a -20 degree F morning. It took several miles for the tire to warm up LOL.

[w2amr]

Since my iffy little 1 liter injection engine of the Hyundai Atoz is used quite well ( i drive quite fast where i can) i use high quality oil, added Teflon to that ( special mix i wrote about here) tuned the engine, and will replace the automatic gear oil this next December.
Topspeed of the little car was 130 KM/H now 155 - 160 Km/h
Tuning added 11 Hp to the 55 Hp it had, but the whole car weighs just 833 kilo's as it stands on the road, or 1800 pounds.
Interflon 25 Teflon is the name, they also have additives for gearboxes.
http://www.kemi.is/mediafolder/pds/FIN_25_3038_PDS.pdf
You could go nuts trying to keep up with all the additives available in/for oil and fuel these days.

[w2amr]

I will say, today's vehicles are easier to remember the service requirements. Between the dashboard warnings, the On Star, the Emailed warnings/reminders from the manufacturer. I got emails telling me the right front tire was 2 psi under the low limit. It happened to be a -20 degree F morning. It took several miles for the tire to warm up LOL.Wow, that's some high tech chitt there.

[KG4CGC]

What, in your opinion, is the slickest oil for small engines?

[w2amr]

What, in your opinion, is the slickest oil for small engines?
What kind of small engines ?

[KG4CGC]

What kind of small engines ?

MC engines WITHOUT a wet clutch system.
High revs.

[w2amr]

MC engines WITHOUT a wet clutch system.
High revs.I really don't know Charles. Best to go with manufacturers recommendations, or ask Fred.:-D

[KG4CGC]

I really don't know Charles. Best to go with manufacturers recommendations, or ask Fred.:-D

Manufacturer recommends the same thing for both types even though what they're recommending is medium quality.
I'll stick with Valvoline full synth with a splash of STP.

[PA5COR]

Full synthetic for my Hyundai Atoz with the teflon.
High revs, stays clean as a whistle, runs very smooth, and oil change advised 20.000 km's but i have it done every year at the M.O.T. ( mandatory check up) mostly after 12.000 km's.
Will have the oil changed as well for the automatic gearbox this year as well.

Just waxed the little bugger with collinite 476 S, 2 layers in 2 days will keep it nice through the winter.
Did the checkup for the winter as well, belts rubbers, tyres ( still new) wiring ( new battery last year) etc etc.
December is the yearly M.O.T. expect no problems since brakes tyres etc is all new sparkplugs etc
Read out computer no faults saved so looks good.

[w2amr]

Manufacturer recommends the same thing for both types even though what they're recommending is medium quality.
I'll stick with Valvoline full synth with a splash of STP.Ah yes, Andy Granatelli's magic additive. I used that stuff as an assembly lube for a couple of engines I put together. Wonder if I did more harm than good.

[KG4CGC]

Ah yes, Andy Granatelli's magic additive. I used that stuff as an assembly lube for a couple of engines I put together. Wonder if I did more harm than good.

Why? Granted it's gear oil thick but used in small amounts it does the job. 50ml per liter Summer and 25ml per liter Winter.

[KG4CGC]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1646912-vr1-racing-oil-isnt-the-oil-we-thought-it-was.html
Not that zincy.

[w2amr]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1646912-vr1-racing-oil-isnt-the-oil-we-thought-it-was.html
Not that zincy.
So Valvoline is guilty of false advertising? I don't think he knows what he's talking about.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/6/

[N8YX]

I really don't know Charles. Best to go with manufacturers recommendations, or ask Fred.:-D

Amsoil, Castrol or Mobil/One synthetics are on my short list...but depending on the engine and the change interval you could probably get away with plain ol' dino from any refiner.

[KG4CGC]

If you were running a tiny motor that holds a half quart, maxed out at all times beyond specs, ridden very often with 16K on the clock so far ...

[N8YX]

If you were running a tiny motor that holds a half quart, maxed out at all times beyond specs, ridden very often with 16K on the clock so far ...

Synthetic, energy-conserving (if no wet clutch or similar mechanism present) and change it when the 80% viscosity "knee" is reached. It'll start thinning out rapidly after that point.

[w2amr]

If you were running a tiny motor that holds a half quart, maxed out at all times beyond specs, ridden very often with 16K on the clock so far ...
Does the motor have the words Briggs and Stratton on it anywhere?

[KG4CGC]

Does the motor have the words Briggs and Stratton on it anywhere?

I could stencil it on, Grumpy.

[w2amr]

This stuff looks good too, But I think it's also low on detergents.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Joe-Gibbs-Racing-Oil/Joe-Gibbs-Hot-Rod-High-Performance-Oils/1503690/10002/-1