Bid Sniping

[WN9HJW]

Not a "rant" per se, but some rambling thoughts.

I've been selling a few odds and ends on eBay the past couple weeks. It's been about two years since the last time I used eBay. Things have changed. Not sure whether it's for the better or not. Well the fees are a lot higher than two years ago. That's not good obviously. But the bidding behavior has changed.

It used to be that you'd see people place bids on the items and over the course of the 5, 7, 10 days of the auction, the price would incrementally go up, some bidders would drop out, and someone would win, usually with a "reasonable" bid.

It seems to me now that there's a dramatic increase in the prevalence of "bid sniping" - the practice of waiting until the final few seconds of an auction then pounding in ridiculous bids like a machine gun. In fact in most of my auctions there's no activity at all until the final ten seconds then the bids go through the roof.

The exception being that when I put in a reasonable "Buy it Now" option, someone always bids the minimum bid, I assume to block anyone else from exercising the Buy it Now..

I don't get it. You can put in a maximum bid and let eBay generate bids for you up to that maximum. I always do a little research first and decide how much is the maximum I'd be willing to spend on an item, then put in that maximum bid and hope that it doesn't go over that. Maybe I'm missing something but what does it matter whether I put in that same bid on day one, or in the last ten seconds?

Now the emphasis seems to be on WINNING at all costs, regardless of the cost of the item. I actually sold an item yesterday for 10% MORE than the thing cost new even accounting for fees and shipping! And the starting bid I gave was about 75% LESS than the new price. Nothing happened until 10 seconds before close, then the bid indicator went bonkers.

If people want to bid that way, fine with me. Especially if I'm the seller and it makes me more money. But I just don't understand the rationale.

[WØTKX]

I don't either. However, if I sell any of my stuff, I will take advantage of it, unless I sell it here first.

I like your keys, but I'm really looking for a long armed "Swedish Pumper" style.

Have a really nice LTA GDO key, and it's similar to those Brit keys.

[NQ6U]

I saw this exact same behavior when I sold a bunch of stuff on eBay a few months ago. Like you said, it's good if you're a seller but I will no longer buy ham gear there. You can still find the occasional bargain in other categories--the XYL gets amazing deals on shoes and designer clothing, for instance--but when it comes to almost anything tech, forget it.

Thinking about it further, the people bidding on ham gear/electronics are predominantly men while the bidders on shoes and designer clothing are predominantly women. One has to suspect that this is not a coincidence.

[K7SGJ]

I don't either. However, if I sell any of my stuff, I will take advantage of it, unless I sell it here first.

I like your keys, but I'm really looking for a long armed "Swedish Pumper" style.

Have a really nice LTA GDO key, and it's similar to those Brit keys.

Yeah, I'm looking for a long armed Swedish Pumper, too, but not for the radio.

[WX7P]

Not a "rant" per se, but some rambling thoughts.

I've been selling a few odds and ends on eBay the past couple weeks. It's been about two years since the last time I used eBay. Things have changed. Not sure whether it's for the better or not. Well the fees are a lot higher than two years ago. That's not good obviously. But the bidding behavior has changed.

It used to be that you'd see people place bids on the items and over the course of the 5, 7, 10 days of the auction, the price would incrementally go up, some bidders would drop out, and someone would win, usually with a "reasonable" bid.

It seems to me now that there's a dramatic increase in the prevalence of "bid sniping" - the practice of waiting until the final few seconds of an auction then pounding in ridiculous bids like a machine gun. In fact in most of my auctions there's no activity at all until the final ten seconds then the bids go through the roof.

The exception being that when I put in a reasonable "Buy it Now" option, someone always bids the minimum bid, I assume to block anyone else from exercising the Buy it Now..

I don't get it. You can put in a maximum bid and let eBay generate bids for you up to that maximum. I always do a little research first and decide how much is the maximum I'd be willing to spend on an item, then put in that maximum bid and hope that it doesn't go over that. Maybe I'm missing something but what does it matter whether I put in that same bid on day one, or in the last ten seconds?

Now the emphasis seems to be on WINNING at all costs, regardless of the cost of the item. I actually sold an item yesterday for 10% MORE than the thing cost new even accounting for fees and shipping! And the starting bid I gave was about 75% LESS than the new price. Nothing happened until 10 seconds before close, then the bid indicator went bonkers.

If people want to bid that way, fine with me. Especially if I'm the seller and it makes me more money. But I just don't understand the rationale.

It's just like our society, it's all about the win.

Your approach about researching an item and putting in a bid is logical and rational. Human beings aren't logical and rational for the most part, especially on ebay.

If there is something I really want, I do the sniping end game instead of bidding early. It always seems that there is someone out there who will bump the bid just for the hell of it. That's why some prices get inflated. You also have to worry about shill bidders in that environment.

A little tip if you're going to sell a lot. Ebay now has this ranking system where they survey the buyers on your descriptions, promptness etc. If you fall below their standards, they will hold your paypal payment until three days AFTER the buyer receives the item before they release the money. You have no way to find out what the complaints were or explain anything. You are at the mercy of the sellers.

Buyers are king on ebay. They can lie cheat and steal and get away with it. Ebay was great for us in a rough period, but never again.

Hope this helps.

[WN9HJW]

A little tip if you're going to sell a lot. Ebay now has this ranking system where they survey the buyers on your descriptions, promptness etc. If you fall below their standards, they will hold your paypal payment until three days AFTER the buyer receives the item before they release the money.



I was wondering about that. I've sold about a dozen items the past week, and all of a sudden two transactions on Friday eBay told me they were not releasing the funds until July 30th. I shipped the things the same day but buyers had not even gotten the things yet of course so it can't be a buyer complaint. Something about "unusual seller activity". Well, yeah, I haven't sold anything in two years but so what? So I guess eBay feels that actually USING eBay is considered "unusual seller activity" ? ?

[suddenseer]

There are bid sniping smart phone apps. They seem to take it up to the final seconds.

[WX7P]

I was wondering about that. I've sold about a dozen items the past week, and all of a sudden two transactions on Friday eBay told me they were not releasing the funds until July 30th. I shipped the things the same day but buyers had not even gotten the things yet of course so it can't be a buyer complaint. Something about "unusual seller activity". Well, yeah, I haven't sold anything in two years but so what? So I guess eBay feels that actually USING eBay is considered "unusual seller activity" ? ?

Yep, it's because you HAVEN'T used ebay. It's a legal kiting scheme.

[NQ6U]

Yep, it's because you HAVEN'T used ebay. It's a legal kiting scheme.

Yup. eBay gets the use of your money for a few days interest-free. The bastids.

[WX7P]

Yup. eBay gets the use of your money for a few days interest-free. The bastids.

It's more than a few days, It can be up to a week. Actually it's longer than that. Paypal kites at least 2 days before the money hits your bank account.

[wa6mhz]

Bid sniping is a GOLD MINE to sellers. In normal bidding, the sellers can go back and forth moving up the amount slowly. But with the SNIPE, U get ONE shot in the last second. If you enter TOO LOW, U are SOL! So bid snipers tend to use the logic that if they make their bid HIGHER than they can fathom anyone else commiting to, THEY will win.

However, when there are 2 such Snipers with such ideas, we get into the NUCLEAR SNIPE!

Lets say U are selling a SB-101 worth $100 anywhere else in the world.

Sniper A wants it REALLY BAD, so he bids $400, figuring no one in the WORLD would be stupid enough to bid anywhere NEAR that amount. He was WRONG!

Sniper B has the same idea, but bids $500, knowing no one else would ever CONSIDER paying that much for a $100 radio. He will win it FOR SURE!

And indeed he does, but now he has to pay over $400, maybe $425 because of Sniper A! The seller is doing BACKFLIPS and SINGING "HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!!!" He has just been made Incredibly RICH because of these Nuclear Snipers!

And it happens all so often. Snipers are a SELLER'S Best Friend.

I never snipe. I bid early in the game, and if there is some FILTHY RICH RAT BASTARD who outbids me, then I SAVED MONEY, and will find Another one someday, for HALF The price! Like at the Swapmeet!

Yesterday at Chino Hills swapmeet, I scored not one but TWO Yaesu FT-101s (an E and an EE) for $100 and $60 respectively.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3762/9326365517_69f1958c98_c.jpg

HOW MUCH would those have cost me on EBAY! And they both work too (now)!

[WX7P]

Bid sniping is a GOLD MINE to sellers. In normal bidding, the sellers can go back and forth moving up the amount slowly. But with the SNIPE, U get ONE shot in the last second. If you enter TOO LOW, U are SOL! So bid snipers tend to use the logic that if they make their bid HIGHER than they can fathom anyone else commiting to, THEY will win.

However, when there are 2 such Snipers with such ideas, we get into the NUCLEAR SNIPE!

Lets say U are selling a SB-101 worth $100 anywhere else in the world.

Sniper A wants it REALLY BAD, so he bids $400, figuring no one in the WORLD would be stupid enough to bid anywhere NEAR that amount. He was WRONG!

Sniper B has the same idea, but bids $500, knowing no one else would ever CONSIDER paying that much for a $100 radio. He will win it FOR SURE!

And indeed he does, but now he has to pay over $400, maybe $425 because of Sniper A! The buyer is doing BACKFLIPS and SINGING "HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!!!" He has just been made Incredibly RICH because of these Nuclear Snipers!

And it happens all so often. Snipers are a SELLER'S Best Friend.

I never snipe. I bid early in the game, and if there is some FILTHY RICH RAT BASTARD who outbids me, then I SAVED MONEY, and will find Another one someday, for HALF The price! Like at the Swapmeet!

Yesterday at Chino Hills swapmeet, I scored not one but TWO Yaesu FT-101 (an E and an EE) for $100 and $60 respectively.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3762/9326365517_69f1958c98_c.jpg

HOW MUCH would those have cost me on EBAY! And they both work too (now)!


Seriously, that's a good score, BUT what are you going to do with them?

[WØTKX]

Add 'em to the top of the stack, and pray the humans and kitties are not crushed when it all falls over. :mrgreen:

[K7SGJ]

Add 'em to the top of the stack, and pray the humans and kitties are not crushed when it all falls over. :mrgreen:


^^^^^^^ +101 Maxwells

[wa6mhz]

Actually, if U look at these radios, they have front feet longer than the back feet. Stacked on top of each other, they tilt BACK so they won't fall over. They lean up against the wall. No radios have fallen over in 10 or more years. Even with Cats climbing up on them!

[K7SGJ]

Actually, if U look at these radios, they have front feet longer than the back feet. Stacked on top of each other, they tilt BACK so they won't fall over. They lean up against the wall. No radios have fallen over in 10 or more years. Even with Cats climbing up on them!

The rubber is going to rot eventually, and TIMBER!

[W7XF]

Actually, if U look at these radios, they have front feet longer than the back feet. Stacked on top of each other, they tilt BACK so they won't fall over. They lean up against the wall. No radios have fallen over in 10 or more years. Even with Cats climbing up on them!

Or the San Andreas will move...but that milkshake won't bring any boys to the yard xD

[WX7P]

Or the San Andreas will move...but that milkshake won't bring any boys to the yard xD

Heh. I don't think Pat is down with that...

[KE0ZU]

I always snipe. I use a program resident on my computer, and I know how long it takes for my bid to get recognized by ebay. I know what a particular item is worth to ME, and thats where I set my limit, and let the computer do its thing. If it doesn't happen this time, then maybe next time. There will ALWAYS be another one.

The ebay bidding system is designed to maximize ebay's revenue, NOT for the convenience of the bidder.

[K9CCH]

...but that milkshake won't bring any boys to the yard xD


Mine does.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDLIACJ8uuM

[wa6mhz]

We don't have Earthquakes in San Diego. After being here since 1970, the WORST Tremor only gently swayed the chandelier and rattled the dishes. NO radios fell over, no house of cards tumbled. LA and SF get all the GOOD quakes. SDG is always shortchanged on Quakes! And my house is especially safe cuz, in Crest, we are on SOLID ROCK here. Most quake damage is in areas of FILL DIRT, which floats around during an event. Rock is pretty stable. So no worries here. We have more to worry about FIRES, and Crest has already been burnt to the ground TWICE in the past several decades. So we are on Pins and Needles THIS fire season! ONE SPARK and the town is TOAST!

[n2ize]

Most I've ever bought off ebay via bidding were a few old pocket knives and a couple of vintage dial pocket watches and wrist watches, some with radium dials some with plain non-luminous dials.. On a few of the items I was outbid but then I upped my bid and much to my surprise there were no last minute or last second bids. Thus I won each item I bid on. In a few cases I was outbid by what I felt were ridiculously high bids so I just let it go as they were beyond the price range I'd be willing to pay for such items.

Other items I bought off ebay were printer ink and spare parts for ink delivery systems. Also bought some replacement parts for rc helicopters. But those were not bid items. Those were "buy it now" items.

[wa6mhz]

I FINALLY won a bid on ebay! A Yaesu Mic for one of my new FT-101Es. Cost me 1/3 as much as the whole RADIO did! But atleast it will have an authentic mic

[KG4NEL]

I snipe 100% of the time.

If it goes above the price I had in mind, so be it - but I don't announce my intentions that I want it before I absolutely have to. I won't use automated programs to do it, call it a gentlemanly concession 8)