Wire antenna musings.

[KG4NEL]

It's finally happening. After 5 years of undergrad, several years of living the post-grad nomadic semi-urban (+e) lifestyle, I'm finally moving in early June to a place that I can set up real antennas. Thinking of going with wires for now - a tribander on a guyed mast may be in the future, but not until next year.

I have some trees on one side of me that look to be 60' or so. I'm considering two major options - both will be fed with 450-ohm ladder line to a stout 1:1 current balun.

- Center-fed doublet in the highest possible tree I can find, which likely will be no higher than a 1/2-wave on 40m.
- Some kind of inverted-L, with a radiator sloping from the house to the highest tree. Room for radials is not a problem, although they'd have to go under a gravel driveway.

The doublet idea seems to have the least complications, and gets the antenna farther away from the house...all good things, but looking at NEC plots makes me worried that being 1/4-high on 80m is going to be a cloud burner.

What say ye?

:yum:

[PA5COR]

My OCF is about 45 feet up straight line.
80 meters is Europe good signals, outside Europe a bit less, but still DX can be made.
Living on young seaclay annd good R.F, ground.
My inverted L 77 feet high alu tubing and 77 feet wire running down to 45 feet above ground uses a autotuner at the feedpoint at the bottom of the antenna ( MFJ 998), and 3000 feet of copper wire in and on the ground.
That one works quite nice on 160/80/40/20 where the vertical component is good for much better DX as the OCF.

For 17-10 another vertical is on the roof.
Using a homebrew active loop antenna for 160 for recieve.
Get the dipole up as high as possible and just try, you can always build the more elaborate L antenna or if you put down the gravel first install ground radials just in case.

A dipole should be 1/2 wave of the ground, nobody except the lucky few can do that, we all use compromise antenna's.
Even 1/8 wave above the ground will give more losses to the ground and a changed elevation of the main lobe pattern, but there iis no switch off, you will still be able to work DX but with a bit more difficculty.

Good luck putting the antenna up ;)

[NQ6U]

More or less what Cor said about compromise. None of my antennas are as high as they ought to be in theory but I've still managed to work some DX with them, even a few rare entities. True, I'm never going to be a serious contender in any contest but I still get to enjoy the hobby.

Put up whatever your situation allows and have fun!

[K7SGJ]

More or less what Cor said about compromise. None of my antennas are as high as they ought to be in theory but I've still managed to work some DX with them, even a few rare entities. True, I'm never going to be a serious contender in any contest but I still get to enjoy the hobby.

Put up whatever your situation allows and have fun!

Yeah, but you get some divine help guiding the radio waves to your place.

[WØTKX]

If you have the room, put up a dipole and and an inverted L. So you can switch between horizontal and vertical.

Not currently up, but at the last QTH the Gap Titan vs the loop was very interesting on 7Mhz and up.

[w0aew]

Use the doublet and don't worry about 80m DX. That's what the other bands are for.

[KG4NEL]

What if I need to get at least several hundred miles away before I find people I want to talk to on there? ;) :p

[K7SGJ]

What if I need to get at least several hundred miles away before I find people I want to talk to on there? ;) :p


cell phone

[PA5COR]

As i said before at 40 -45 feet high i work all europe and Russia on 80 with relative ease, 100 -1000 watts mostly just running 100 watts.
If you will get your antenna up at 1/2 that hight you will go to a more NVIS antenna, good for local contacts up to 1000 Km's worse outside that scope.
You also will experience more ground loss, but that won't mean no DX or no good signals withing 1000 Km's just that the DX and above 1000 KM signals will be less as good as 40-45 feet up.

Conditions will make good or bad all these effects, with good cndx you still will be able to make a difference in DX.
If as now we have a CME ( coronal mass ejection) hitting us then the band closes and a beam at 40 meters high and 2000 watts will be worth sh*t too.
Many people make good DX with 5 watts and a half decent antenna, just put the stuff up and enjoy like most of us antenna challenged peeps do.
Try to get the ARRL antenna book, i have as well the RSGB book, the low band DXing from ON4UN, and some older ARRL Radio Amateurs Handbooks, i own several of them the newst 1984... still with a gaggle of valid info you can use today.
Lots of good info about antenna's influence over ground, hight etc can be found in there.

Conditions will do the most, i remember moddifying my FT 847 to Schottky diodes having it on the bench on 10 meters with a 2 feet piece of wire in it, and with 1 watt lowest power testing the audio i got the USA on the line on 10...... from my room at the first floor in the house and 2 feet wire and 1 watt.....from the Netherlands...

Put up what you can as high as possible and as much copper as possible and have fun.
Cor

What if I need to get at least several hundred miles away before I find people I want to talk to on there? ;) :p

[KG4NEL]

Try to get the ARRL antenna book, i have as well the RSGB book, the low band DXing from ON4UN, and some older ARRL Radio Amateurs Handbooks, i own several of them the newst 1984... still with a gaggle of valid info you can use today.

I have an Antenna Book & a couple Handbooks, but ON4UN's is definitely on my list to buy if I get more into low-band stuff.

[PA5COR]

Good.
ON4UN's book led me to make several 160 meter verticals resulting in the last one 77 feet high and 77 feet top section in wire running down to 45 feet above ground.
And a as good as possible ground radial net i could get away with, and the autotuner MFJ 998 at the feedpoint to make it a multiband L.
I can tune it from 160 - 10 without problems, i kept the L longer as a 1/4 wave on 160 to prevent the L being a 1/2 wave and high impedance on 80.
Up to 20 meters good for DX, low angle of radiation and above 20 the pattern rally starts to break up, it will work, but a seperate vertical 35 feet high on the roof for 17-10 works better there.
My OCF ( Fritzel FD-4 with AMA 83 balun for 1500 watts is altered with a coil of 190 Microhenry and 9 meters of wire so it is resonant on 160 as well and works bar a few Warc bands up to and 10 meters.

I made a recieve active loop of aluminium strip 14 feet long in a loop with a long tailed pair BFW 16 A transistors in class A for reception 30 Khz to 50 MHz.
So on each band i can chose for reception the loop a vertical or horizontal polarised antenna and pick the one that gives the best results.
I live on the edge of my city, and have S6 noise on the vertical on 160 the loop is having a better signal to signal/noise reception.

I build and tried EWE antenna's K9AY loops, amplifiers for them, and all mostly made from scrap material.
Building your own stuff, even ladderline, is cheap, gives more satisfaction, and you have no costs changing the stuff.
I'm always looking for copper wire to add to the collection, bought a bunch of roseclips used by the growers of roses that keep a wire 3 inches apart costing peanuts, to make my own ladderline, or make them yourself ( try plastics in the microwave with a glass of water next to it to see if it is not conducting R.F., if it gets hot don't use it.)
My plot of land including the house is just 100 x 25 feet large, see piccies at qrz looking me up there.
My radials are all over the place some 40 feet long a few 100 yards long in my plot, the neigbours etc.
I can run 1000 watts here without having neighbours here coming to my door with pitchforks demanding me to stop ;)
I connected the house ground to my station as well the elaborate groundstake system of 17 x 10 feet long copper pipes.
Even the stainless kitchen sink is connected to that... as well waterpipes, gas pipes ( all copper here) and zinc gutters.

Near the foot of the vertical use chicken wire to cover as much and dense the ground, here the largest currents run to the feedpoint, connect the ground wires to that and run them to the feedpoint, use silver solder to connect them not the normal solder, it wlll corrode into dust in 1 or 2 years.
Cadwelding is the best option, clamping on a ground plate from stainless steel works too.
Check your system every year, using my MFJ 269 antenna analyser i noted down the data and check each year if nothing changed signaling a problem.

Just a few grabs of my experiences here for the last 36 year hamming...
And have fun ;)

[KJ3N]

Use the doublet and don't worry about 80m DX. That's what the other bands are for.

:rofl:

QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0217 KS3D 59 DE VP5H
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0221 KS3D 59 DE CT3DL
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0223 KS3D 59 DE V26M
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0236 KS3D 59 DE 6Y9V
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0245 KS3D 59 DE EA3WD
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0248 KS3D 59 DE 9A1A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0251 KS3D 59 DE J7Y
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0257 KS3D 59 DE DF7ZS
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0416 KS3D 59 DE C6AMM
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0416 KS3D 59 DE G4PWA
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0418 KS3D 59 DE TO5A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0427 KS3D 59 DE DR1A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0428 KS3D 59 DE P40A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0431 KS3D 59 DE C6AWL
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0436 KS3D 59 DE 8P6EX
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0437 KS3D 59 DE S53O
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0446 KS3D 59 DE YV5MSG

80m PH 07/15/12 0319 IO4HQ 59 08 59 ARI
80m PH 07/15/12 0321 E70ARA 59 08 59 ARABH
80m PH 07/15/12 0322 DA0HQ 59 08 59 DARC
80m PH 07/15/12 0324 CR3T 59 08 59 36
80m PH 07/15/12 0328 LX75HQ 59 08 59 RL
80m PH 07/15/12 0329 OL2HQ 59 08 59 CRC
80m PH 07/15/12 0331 HB9HQ 59 08 59 USKA
80m PH 07/15/12 0335 DH8BQA 59 08 59 28
80m PH 07/15/12 0337 HB9OK 59 08 59 28
80m PH 07/15/12 0343 S50HQ 59 08 59 ZRS
80m PH 07/15/12 0345 TM0HQ 59 08 59 REF
80m PH 07/15/12 0402 GO2HQ 59 08 59 RSGB
80m PH 07/15/12 0404 EF1HQ 59 08 59 URE

80m PH 03/02/13 0021 OK7K 59 DE 59 OK!
80m PH 03/02/13 0023 9A7A 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0026 HF8J 59 DE 59 SP
80m PH 03/02/13 0027 C6ANM 59 DE 59 C6
80m PH 03/02/13 0030 E7DX 59 DE 59 E7
80m PH 03/02/13 0030 9A1P 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0031 OK2RZ 59 DE 59 OK!
80m PH 03/02/13 0032 HG7T 59 DE 59 HA
80m PH 03/02/13 0034 G4PKP 59 DE 59 G
80m PH 03/02/13 0035 S58FA 59 DE 59 S5
80m PH 03/02/13 0037 II9P 59 DE 59 IT9
80m PH 03/02/13 0038 YT9A 59 DE 59 YU
80m PH 03/02/13 0039 CT2ITR 59 DE 59 CT!
80m PH 03/02/13 0040 G5W 59 DE 59 G
80m PH 03/02/13 0041 KP4KE 59 DE 59 KP4
80m PH 03/02/13 0042 9A1A 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0043 9A7DM 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0044 VP9I 59 DE 59 VP9
80m PH 03/02/13 0053 OM2KI 59 DE 59 OM
80m PH 03/02/13 0441 CR2X 59 DE 59 CU
80m PH 03/02/13 0443 OS8A 59 DE 59 ON!
80m PH 03/02/13 0450 3V8BB 59 DE 59 3V
80m PH 03/02/13 0451 CS2C 59 DE 59 CT!
80m PH 03/02/13 0455 EA7EU 59 DE 59 EA
80m PH 03/02/13 0458 GM3PPG 59 DE 59 GM
80m PH 03/02/13 0642 PJ2T 59 DE 59 PJ2
80m PH 03/02/13 0648 M8C 59 DE 59 G
80m PH 03/02/13 0650 EI7M 59 DE 59 EI
80m PH 03/02/13 0651 8P5A 59 DE 59 8P
80m PH 03/02/13 0654 LX7I 59 DE 59 LX
80m PH 03/02/13 0658 KP2M 59 DE 59 KP2
80m PH 03/02/13 0659 J88DR 59 DE 59 J8
80m PH 03/02/13 0702 HI3TEJ 59 DE 59 HI!
80m PH 03/02/13 0704 CM5FZ 59 DE 59 CM

80m PH 03/30/13 0239 9A8M 19 59 59 310 * 9A8
80m PH 03/30/13 0242 TM7F 20 59 59 242 * TM7
80m PH 03/30/13 0248 DR1D 21 59 59 282 * DR1
80m PH 03/30/13 0252 D4C 23 59 59 259
80m PH 03/30/13 0255 CF3A 25 59 59 375 * CF3
80m PH 03/30/13 0256 II9P 26 59 59 312 * II9
80m PH 03/30/13 0300 EF5Y 27 59 59 281 * EF5
80m PH 03/30/13 0305 YU0K 28 59 59 156 * YU0
80m PH 03/30/13 0307 TM6M 29 59 59 307 * TM6
80m PH 03/30/13 0310 CN2R 30 59 59 480 * CN2
80m PH 03/31/13 0233 HA8RM 150 59 59 10 * HA8
80m PH 03/31/13 0239 DR1A 153 59 59 979

All done with 100 watts and a 134 foot doublet at 60 feet. Please note that you will not find one CW contact in that entire list, since I don't do that beeping crap.

If the doublet is up at least 60 feet, there is still usable energy (broadside to the wire) down to 30 degrees TOA (assuming 3db down from max). If you only want to suffer a 2db loss, then you're at 35 degrees TOA.

Now things may be different in CO, but Jim's on the East Coast. So am I. His results should be similar to mine.

[X-Rated]

If I am designing antennas for DX, I am looking in the 10 degree TOA region to make my comparisons on the NEC analysis. I would never discourage someone from putting up just anything for an antenna, but if you can put up something with a better signal at a 10 degrees TOA, I would do that before settling for something that is many dB down at that TOA.

[K7SGJ]

:rofl:

QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0217 KS3D 59 DE VP5H
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0221 KS3D 59 DE CT3DL
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0223 KS3D 59 DE V26M
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0236 KS3D 59 DE 6Y9V
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0245 KS3D 59 DE EA3WD
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0248 KS3D 59 DE 9A1A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0251 KS3D 59 DE J7Y
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0257 KS3D 59 DE DF7ZS
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0416 KS3D 59 DE C6AMM
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0416 KS3D 59 DE G4PWA
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0418 KS3D 59 DE TO5A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0427 KS3D 59 DE DR1A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0428 KS3D 59 DE P40A
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0431 KS3D 59 DE C6AWL
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0436 KS3D 59 DE 8P6EX
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0437 KS3D 59 DE S53O
QSO: 3500 PH 2010-03-06 0446 KS3D 59 DE YV5MSG

80m PH 07/15/12 0319 IO4HQ 59 08 59 ARI
80m PH 07/15/12 0321 E70ARA 59 08 59 ARABH
80m PH 07/15/12 0322 DA0HQ 59 08 59 DARC
80m PH 07/15/12 0324 CR3T 59 08 59 36
80m PH 07/15/12 0328 LX75HQ 59 08 59 RL
80m PH 07/15/12 0329 OL2HQ 59 08 59 CRC
80m PH 07/15/12 0331 HB9HQ 59 08 59 USKA
80m PH 07/15/12 0335 DH8BQA 59 08 59 28
80m PH 07/15/12 0337 HB9OK 59 08 59 28
80m PH 07/15/12 0343 S50HQ 59 08 59 ZRS
80m PH 07/15/12 0345 TM0HQ 59 08 59 REF
80m PH 07/15/12 0402 GO2HQ 59 08 59 RSGB
80m PH 07/15/12 0404 EF1HQ 59 08 59 URE

80m PH 03/02/13 0021 OK7K 59 DE 59 OK!
80m PH 03/02/13 0023 9A7A 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0026 HF8J 59 DE 59 SP
80m PH 03/02/13 0027 C6ANM 59 DE 59 C6
80m PH 03/02/13 0030 E7DX 59 DE 59 E7
80m PH 03/02/13 0030 9A1P 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0031 OK2RZ 59 DE 59 OK!
80m PH 03/02/13 0032 HG7T 59 DE 59 HA
80m PH 03/02/13 0034 G4PKP 59 DE 59 G
80m PH 03/02/13 0035 S58FA 59 DE 59 S5
80m PH 03/02/13 0037 II9P 59 DE 59 IT9
80m PH 03/02/13 0038 YT9A 59 DE 59 YU
80m PH 03/02/13 0039 CT2ITR 59 DE 59 CT!
80m PH 03/02/13 0040 G5W 59 DE 59 G
80m PH 03/02/13 0041 KP4KE 59 DE 59 KP4
80m PH 03/02/13 0042 9A1A 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0043 9A7DM 59 DE 59 9A
80m PH 03/02/13 0044 VP9I 59 DE 59 VP9
80m PH 03/02/13 0053 OM2KI 59 DE 59 OM
80m PH 03/02/13 0441 CR2X 59 DE 59 CU
80m PH 03/02/13 0443 OS8A 59 DE 59 ON!
80m PH 03/02/13 0450 3V8BB 59 DE 59 3V
80m PH 03/02/13 0451 CS2C 59 DE 59 CT!
80m PH 03/02/13 0455 EA7EU 59 DE 59 EA
80m PH 03/02/13 0458 GM3PPG 59 DE 59 GM
80m PH 03/02/13 0642 PJ2T 59 DE 59 PJ2
80m PH 03/02/13 0648 M8C 59 DE 59 G
80m PH 03/02/13 0650 EI7M 59 DE 59 EI
80m PH 03/02/13 0651 8P5A 59 DE 59 8P
80m PH 03/02/13 0654 LX7I 59 DE 59 LX
80m PH 03/02/13 0658 KP2M 59 DE 59 KP2
80m PH 03/02/13 0659 J88DR 59 DE 59 J8
80m PH 03/02/13 0702 HI3TEJ 59 DE 59 HI!
80m PH 03/02/13 0704 CM5FZ 59 DE 59 CM

80m PH 03/30/13 0239 9A8M 19 59 59 310 * 9A8
80m PH 03/30/13 0242 TM7F 20 59 59 242 * TM7
80m PH 03/30/13 0248 DR1D 21 59 59 282 * DR1
80m PH 03/30/13 0252 D4C 23 59 59 259
80m PH 03/30/13 0255 CF3A 25 59 59 375 * CF3
80m PH 03/30/13 0256 II9P 26 59 59 312 * II9
80m PH 03/30/13 0300 EF5Y 27 59 59 281 * EF5
80m PH 03/30/13 0305 YU0K 28 59 59 156 * YU0
80m PH 03/30/13 0307 TM6M 29 59 59 307 * TM6
80m PH 03/30/13 0310 CN2R 30 59 59 480 * CN2
80m PH 03/31/13 0233 HA8RM 150 59 59 10 * HA8
80m PH 03/31/13 0239 DR1A 153 59 59 979

All done with 100 watts and a 134 foot doublet at 60 feet. Please note that you will not find one CW contact in that entire list, since I don't do that beeping crap.

If the doublet is up at least 60 feet, there is still usable energy (broadside to the wire) down to 30 degrees TOA (assuming 3db down from max). If you only want to suffer a 2db loss, then you're at 35 degrees TOA.

Now things may be different in CO, but Jim's on the East Coast. So am I. His results should be similar to mine.

Ebil contesters. :evil:

[KG4NEL]

Look at that, all 59 reports :neener:

[KJ3N]

Look at that, all 59 reports :neener:


Ebil contesters. :evil:

Yes, yes I am. :evil: :muhahaha:

[K7SGJ]

Look at that, all 59 reports :neener:

I wasn't aware there was anything else.

[KJ3N]

Look at that, all 59 reports :neener:
I wasn't aware there was anything else.

November Sweepstakes. Not a signal report to be had.

From http://www.arrl.org/sweepstakes :


4. Contest Exchange: The required exchange consists of:

4.1. A consecutive serial number;

4.2. Precedence;

4.2.1. “Q” for Single Op QRP (5 Watts output or less);

4.2.2. “A” for Single Op Low Power (up to 150 W output);

4.2.3. “B” for Single Op High Power (greater than 150 W output);

4.2.4. “U” for Single Op Unlimited Single-Op Unlimited High Power and Single-Op Unlimited Low Power both send "U")

4.2.5. “M” for Multi-Op (Multiop High Power and Multiop Low Power both send "M")

4.2.6. “S” for School Club;

4.3 Your Callsign;

4.4. Check

4.4.1. The last 2 digits of the year of first license for either the operator or the station.

4.4.2. An entry must send the same Check throughout the entire contest.

4.5. ARRL/RAC Section

4.6 Exchange Example: NU1AW would respond to W1AW’s call by sending: W1AW 123 B NU1AW 71 CT, which indicates QSO number 123, B for Single Op High Power, NU1AW, first licensed in 1971, and in the Connecticut section.

:neener: :lol: