Instrument Tuning ... By Ear or Not by Ear

[n2ize]

To tune by ear or not by ear, that is the question..

Since I was a kid I learned to tune my violin the traditional method, by ear. Basically I use a 440 Hz (A) tuning fork. I tune the A string to the fork (or oboe if I'm sitting in the orchestra) and then tune all the other strings from there.

A couple days ago I decided to give in and order a chromatic electronic tuner. It's made by a brand called "Snark", For ten bucks on Amazon I couldn't resist the temptation. The particular one I ordered is good for bass, guitar and violin and it will basically display any note you play. The nice feature is that it is designed to pick up vibration, so you simply clip it on to the scroll of the violin (or headstock of the guitar), play the open string and displays the note you are playing and tells you if you are sharp or flat and, if so by how much. What makes this type of tuner nice is that you can use it in noisy environments, like in the recital hall when others are tuning horns, trumpets, and other stings. Since it is chromatic you can also use it while you're playing to get an idea of your fingering and intonation.

So far I tried the tuner and it works. I also discovered that I am pretty good tuning the traditional (by ear) way as my strings were pretty much spot on, or slightly sharp which is really no problem.

Now here's the catch. Despite the ease and seeming accuracy and low cost of modern electronic tuners I think it is still invaluable, especially beginners and intermediate players, to learn to tune by ear and not become entirely dependent on electronics. IMHO Tuning by ear helps to develop a critical ear which is of critical importance in developing good intonation. In that way I do feel a bit guilty using the electronics. However, on the other side of the coin if used properly the electronic tuner (and particularly chromatic electronique tuners) can be an asset to helping develop a good ear. So I see pluses and minuses to both. Since there are other musicians who frequent this forum I wonder what your thoughts might be on this.

Incidentally this is the tuner I purchased, for the price I figured what the heck.

http://www.amazon.com/Snark-Guitar-Violin-Planet-Sampler/dp/B0073XCYO2

and for more into SNARK has it's own website..

http://www.snarktuners.com/

[WX7P]

I've never used an electronic tuner or tuning fork. I've always done it by ear.

You are correct. Tuning by ear develops a person's critical ear and helps with overall intonation.

Learning the A string is hard at first, but one gets it over time. Tuning the other strings was always easy for me because the "wobble" was always present if the string being tuned was off.

With the exception of the e string, I never use tuners on the tailpiece. Remove them, if you have them. Always use the pegs for the g, d and a string. The violin sounds much better without them.

[n2ize]

I've never used an electronic tuner or tuning fork. I've always done it by ear.

You are correct. Tuning by ear develops a person's critical ear and helps with overall intonation.

Learning the A string is hard at first, but one gets it over time. Tuning the other strings was always easy for me because the "wobble" was always present if the string being tuned was off.

With the exception of the e string, I never use tuners on the tailpiece. Remove them, if you have them. Always use the pegs for the g, d and a string. The violin sounds much better without them.

Yeah, the violin shop that set up my violin when I purchased it put on a composite tailpiece with 4 fine tuners. I've been planning to change that setup for a while now. I preferably want to replace it with a wooden tailpiece and a fine tuner only for the E. On my old violin (the one I played through my childhood into my young adult years) only the E was set up with a fine tuner. All the other strings were tuned only via the pegs.

Great if you can go 100% by ear. I always used a reference source, i.e. tuning fork, single note pitch pipe, piano key, etc. for the A and then tuned the others strings in reference to the A. But that is great if you have been doing it all by ear.

I plan to continue tuning the traditional way that I always have. However, electronic tuner could come in handy if I have to check my tuning on the fly, for example at a rehearsal, etc.

[N8OBM]

You can make good arguments for both. I can tell you from the perspective of someone who performs with mostly amplified instruments, Electronic tuners are an absolute god send and I wouldn't think about working with out them. With a fretted instrument I can not compensate if my instrument goes flat or sharp the way a violin player can. My tuner does two things, It mutes the instrument when engaged and shows me the pitch. If I hear my guitar going out of tune I can retune on the fly. As I said I wouldn't work without one.

It's worth noting that we do use the equal tempered system of tuning. We can think of an octave as being divided up as a series of ratios from 1:1 for a unison to a 2:1 for and octave. Early tuning systems were based around whole number fractions. For example a perfect fifth would have been the ratio of 3/2 or 1.5:1. When you tune be ear that is the ratio your ear wants to tune to. How ever with equal tempered tuning a perfect fifth is actually 1.498307:1 which is slightly flat compared to early tuning. I would be willing to bet that you find yourself tuning slightly sharp for this reason. Electronic tuners give us a way to check.

I happen to be of the belief that hearing is much more of a learned thing that most people think. Some people are just born with so called Perfect Pitch but my experience working with them is they don't have any better understanding what the pitch is, they just have an amazing memory for pitch they same way some people are very aware of color. Frankly working with people with perfect pitch is often a pain in the rear. I worked with a singer that would learn a song in exactly the pitch she heard it in. There was one song where the recording was 1/4 step flat so she sang it 1/4 step flat regardless of what i did. Major pain in the rear. She had no sense of relative pitch at all.

Relative pitch is of course the ability to hear the sound of an interval. that is more correctly put, the ability to hear the distance between to notes rather than the notes themselves. When someone can sing harmonies well and in tune what there are doing is using relative pitch. Tuning the interval to what ever the pitch the person singing the lead is using. If they go slightly out of tune but, the harmony is holding the correct interval to the pitch being sung, it will usually sound in tune. Personally I find relative pitch quite a bit more useful in my day to day activities then perfect pitch.

As to the electronic tuner thing. It's only a tool. You can use the tool to help you develop you hearing by checking how close you are or you can use it to avoid having to learn to hear. It's all in how you choose to use it. Personally, I am of the school that believes that it doesn't make to much of a difference for most string players as they have to tune the note as they finger the note or it's going to sound ugly. I don't thing that the practice you get tuning the instrument is going to make that much of a difference. I feel a little different for a fretting instrument as they get much less practice having to correct pitch. If you really want to learn the hear pitch, I would recommend doing ensemble singing. Nothing I've done has done as much to teach my to hear as that has.

I would offer this thought, It learning to tune your instrument by ear is a critical part of learning to become a musician than most piano players should be awful musicians as the number of them that have tuned their instrument is an extremely small number compared to those that haven't.

Hear I am.... Rambling on again....

Some things never change

Archie N8OBM

[KC2UGV]

I tune violins by ear. Guitars, however, I use a tuner.

[NQ6U]

I tune my harmonica by ear.

[WØTKX]

I used to play violin as a kid, the instrument was "decided" for me because the music teacher checked me out to see if I could tune it with a little direction, and playing me notes on a well tuned piano. I could hera the "beat notes" clearly, and soon learned where to tune the other strings after getting one correct via the piano. I also learned to do it with a pitchfork, which I preferred.

As somebody who sat in front of the board in days gone by, the acceptance and understanding of relative pitch is right on. Not only does it work out better at the time the tunes are being played, it avoids the "narcissism of small differences".

Band fights are way WAY worse than forum fights. ;)

[n2ize]

Learning the A string is hard at first, but one gets it over time. Tuning the other strings was always easy for me because the "wobble" was always present if the string being tuned was off.



You zero beat the string being tuned to the stirng that is in tune. ;)

[WØTKX]

And a CW or AM enthusiast should be able to do that, easily. ;)

[K7SGJ]

And a CW or AM enthusiast should be able to do that, easily. ;)


Problem is, my guitar always ends up on .313.

[WØTKX]

Nylon strings on a cheap ukulele will do that. :snicker:

http://youtu.be/R_bljefIsBc



http://youtu.be/R_bljefIsBc

[NQ6U]

Never misunderestimate the ukulele.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puSkP3uym5k

[WØTKX]

Oh, I wouldn't. And don't. It depends on the operator. :)

http://youtu.be/QT1i3CSlQsE


http://youtu.be/QT1i3CSlQsE

[n2ize]

I used to play violin as a kid, the instrument was "decided" for me

I always hated to hear stories where a teacher or school instructor assigns or decides what a particular student should learn. That should bea decision left entirely to the student and it should be his/her choice to decide whether to play violin, viola, bass, drums, horns, clarinets, etc.

In my case I was lucky. I wanted to learn the violin since I was about 2 or 3 years old and I found an old violin at my Grandma's house. So for me it was a natural choice later on.



because the music teacher checked me out to see if I could tune it with a little direction, and playing me notes on a well tuned piano. I could hera the "beat notes" clearly, and soon learned where to tune the other strings after getting one correct via the piano. I also learned to do it with a pitchfork, which


As a child I always let my instructor tune for me. Later on I used a pitch pipe and then a tuning fork.

[NQ6U]

Oh, I wouldn't. And don't. It depends on the operator. :)

Yep. Same deal as that accordion piece I posted here a little while back. I'd post it again but YouTube sent me a threatening notice about copyright violation so I took it down.

[n2ize]

You can make good arguments for both. I can tell you from the perspective of someone who performs with mostly amplified instruments, Electronic tuners are an absolute god send and I wouldn't think about working with out them. With a fretted instrument I can not compensate if my instrument goes flat or sharp the way a violin player can. My tuner does two things, It mutes the instrument when engaged and shows me the pitch. If I hear my guitar going out of tune I can retune on the fly. As I said I wouldn't work without one.

It's worth noting that we do use the equal tempered system of tuning. We can think of an octave as being divided up as a series of ratios from 1:1 for a unison to a 2:1 for and octave. Early tuning systems were based around whole number fractions. For example a perfect fifth would have been the ratio of 3/2 or 1.5:1. When you tune be ear that is the ratio your ear wants to tune to. How ever with equal tempered tuning a perfect fifth is actually 1.498307:1 which is slightly flat compared to early tuning. I would be willing to bet that you find yourself tuning slightly sharp for this reason. Electronic tuners give us a way to check.

I happen to be of the belief that hearing is much more of a learned thing that most people think. Some people are just born with so called Perfect Pitch but my experience working with them is they don't have any better understanding what the pitch is, they just have an amazing memory for pitch they same way some people are very aware of color. Frankly working with people with perfect pitch is often a pain in the rear. I worked with a singer that would learn a song in exactly the pitch she heard it in. There was one song where the recording was 1/4 step flat so she sang it 1/4 step flat regardless of what i did. Major pain in the rear. She had no sense of relative pitch at all.

Relative pitch is of course the ability to hear the sound of an interval. that is more correctly put, the ability to hear the distance between to notes rather than the notes themselves. When someone can sing harmonies well and in tune what there are doing is using relative pitch. Tuning the interval to what ever the pitch the person singing the lead is using. If they go slightly out of tune but, the harmony is holding the correct interval to the pitch being sung, it will usually sound in tune. Personally I find relative pitch quite a bit more useful in my day to day activities then perfect pitch.

As to the electronic tuner thing. It's only a tool. You can use the tool to help you develop you hearing by checking how close you are or you can use it to avoid having to learn to hear. It's all in how you choose to use it. Personally, I am of the school that believes that it doesn't make to much of a difference for most string players as they have to tune the note as they finger the note or it's going to sound ugly. I don't thing that the practice you get tuning the instrument is going to make that much of a difference. I feel a little different for a fretting instrument as they get much less practice having to correct pitch. If you really want to learn the hear pitch, I would recommend doing ensemble singing. Nothing I've done has done as much to teach my to hear as that has.

I would offer this thought, It learning to tune your instrument by ear is a critical part of learning to become a musician than most piano players should be awful musicians as the number of them that have tuned their instrument is an extremely small number compared to those that haven't.

Hear I am.... Rambling on again....

Some things never change

Archie N8OBM

Very good points. I would have to say I agree with most everything you said above. Of course there are notable differences between a fretted instrument like a guitar versus an unfretted one live the violin, cello or upright bass. Sone things being easier to do on the violin and some things harder depending on exactly what you are playing. I have to admit, some pieces that I play really challenge my fingering capacity more than anything else while on others bowing technique is very critical can make or break the music. Some pieces leave lots of leeway for tempo, intonation, personal improvisation while others are best played strictly as written with little, if any, deviation. For example on one solo piece the conductor said regarding the tempo, "it's your call, you decide how slow or fast you want to play it. In the type of stuff we play that is not always an option (although I often with it were :) ). eing that we are not a professional orchestra we also have people of varying skill levels ranging from professional quality to people who have only been playing a short time or who have not played in many many years. On a long hard peice some of the weaker or less experienced players will join us on the easier parts and may drop out on the harder passages and then join in again on the easier parts. Our advanced members will play the whole thing straight through. The one thing that does happen is that as time goes on the people who can only play a few parts here and there eventually pick up and play more and more as the weeks go by. The end results though so far have been quite good considering.

I agree with you regarding the tuning. Just lke other tolls have come along to help musicians over the many centuries of music so the electronic tuner is one more thing that has come our way. The way i see it, why not take advantage of them, they can only help. However, I do feel that all beginning string players, be it violin, guitar, etc. should also learn to tune without them. Other than that, why not take advantage of what new technology has to offer. At least that is how I see it at the moment.

Allk in all I'd say you are spot on with your comments. Thanks for sharing them with us.

[n2ize]

I tune violins by ear. Guitars, however, I use a tuner.

Are you a violin player ? A guitar player ? Pray tell.

[WØTKX]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1358818/smallest-violin-o.gif

[X-Rated]

... Basically I use a 440 Hz (A) tuning fork. ...

But if you are off by only 2 Hz, ...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcwDxvGuKfRZ1VAQdLNt8IXrVbMOLOg Z6nV5hx5dK4kvFRkD_dMQ

[n2ize]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1358818/smallest-violin-o.gif

Fiddler crab.

[KC2UGV]

Are you a violin player ? A guitar player ? Pray tell.

I diddle with both, from time to time. Haven't played violin in a few year, and guitar, it's been a few month.

[N7YA]

I always use a digital tuner stompbox...i need to get it done quickly and silently. Nothing says "noob" like a guy standing onstage going BOOOOWWOOOOON BWWWAAAAAAABWANGBWANGBWANGBOOOOWWWWNNNN during sound check when FOH is trying to get levels on drums.