Linux Laptops ?

[WN9HJW]

Deleted

[W4GPL]

It's becoming a serious problem. Now we have UEFI booting which gets tricky due to encryption keys...

I've been running Linux on my laptop for nearly 10 years and I'm seriously considering a Macbook. So at this point, I don't know what to tell you.

You gotta overcome the UEFI issues, presuming you can do that and get what you want, you'll be OK.

[NQ6U]

FWIW, Ubuntu runs perfectly on my older MacBook Pro. I can even run many Windows apps under WINE, although a few do fail. For instance, I can run HRD but DM 780 crashes on launch.

[W4GPL]

Yeah, your "older MacBook", get something with UEFI and and encryption key, best of luck.

[KC2UGV]

Yeah, your "older MacBook", get something with UEFI and and encryption key, best of luck.

Most BIOS's allow you to disable UEFI.

[W4GPL]

I've run across a lot of exceptions to that rule.

[WØTKX]

Wow, what a bunch of ornery stuff. Making a PC or Laptop dual (or more) bootable should not be such a PITA.

[KC2UGV]

I've run across a lot of exceptions to that rule.

I've not. Most every EUFI machine I've come across has the ability to turn on secure boot. In fact, MS requires vendors to ensure it can be disabled (Somehow, might not be trivial to do). But the option is there, somewhere.

But, even in the off chance you can't, then you can buy a copy (Gasp!) of RHEL 6 Desktop: https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/

RHEL bought into it, and got a signed key from MS.

[n2ize]

This is new to me. Are you saying that on these EUFI systems I cannot simply install Linux and boot and go ? How can I avoid these types of systems ? Is this both on desktops and laptops , or just a laptop thing. If I buy any new system the first thing I do is put Linux on the system. I don't want any system on which I cannot install Linux.

[W4GPL]

This is new to me. Are you saying that on these EUFI systems I cannot simply install Linux and boot and go ? How can I avoid these types of systems ? Is this both on desktops and laptops , or just a laptop thing. If I buy any new system the first thing I do is put Linux on the system. I don't want any system on which I cannot install Linux.You just need to make sure you know what you're buying. There are systems with these types of UEFI (the term is getting polluted) that would make it difficult to install certain distros. Corey is right that I may have over stated the concerns, but you can find yourself in the dark if you make the wrong choice. Also I'm starting to see storage devices that cater to just Windows.. it fucking sucks.

And by the way Corey, RedHat was dead wrong to do that. It's appalling that they'd even consider getting in bed with those thugs.

[n2ize]

Supposedly Fedora handles UEFI quite painlessly.

http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html-single/UEFI_Secure_Boot_Guide/index.html

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=142464

[W4GPL]

Yeah, which is why the project fields hundreds of requests a day..

[n2ize]

You just need to make sure you know what you're buying. There are systems with these types of UEFI (the term is getting polluted) that would make it difficult to install certain distros. Corey is right that I may have over stated the concerns, but you can find yourself in the dark if you make the wrong choice. Also I'm starting to see storage devices that cater to just Windows.. it fucking sucks.

And by the way Corey, RedHat was dead wrong to do that. It's appalling that they'd even consider getting in bed with those thugs.

Okay, but how do I know what I am buying ? How do I know if the machine I am buying supports firmware that readily enables me to turn off UEFI and run in legacy mode without a whole lot of hassles. ? What if I just buy a bare bones machine with no operating system installed ? Or buy a MB, processor and build up my own system ? Frankly I am not interested in Windows, just hardware that I can install my favorite distros with no hassles , no problems, and without having to turn to Microsoft or pay Micro$$oft for permission to use Linux on hardware that I purchase and own ? If I need to build it myself then so be it. I am not going to let Microsoft rob me of my right to us the OS and software of my choice.

[KC2UGV]

You just need to make sure you know what you're buying. There are systems with these types of UEFI (the term is getting polluted) that would make it difficult to install certain distros. Corey is right that I may have over stated the concerns, but you can find yourself in the dark if you make the wrong choice. Also I'm starting to see storage devices that cater to just Windows.. it fucking sucks.


Yes, I was swapping the E and U lol.



And by the way Corey, RedHat was dead wrong to do that. It's appalling that they'd even consider getting in bed with those thugs.

You can be technically wrong, but still doing the right thing. And, you can be technically right, but still doing the wrong thing.

RedHat is a distro provider catering to business units. Businesses need it to work, and Redhat did it. I could see it being "appalling", if say Debian, or Slackware did it. But Redhat? That's their bread and butter, and they needed it to get installs on the newer HP stuff flawlessly.

That being said, if I were an OEM, I would just ship it disabled. Secure boot seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[N1LAF]

Screen shot of a custom system that was built last year. Windows XP and Windows 7 loaded, works fast.

UEFI Boot disabled.

ANOTHER reason to avoid Windows 8 if it requires UEFI.

[n6hcm]

ANOTHER reason to avoid Windows 8 if it requires UEFI.

afaik, it doesn't. i have it loaded on a ten-year-old laptop (built before UEFI existed).

this is kinda interesting, though. (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/24869.html)

[N1LAF]

Here's another thing, I have loaded a beta version of Win 8 in VMware, don't think there is a UEFI in VM.

[KC2UGV]

Here's another thing, I have loaded a beta version of Win 8 in VMware, don't think there is a UEFI in VM.

UEFI isn't required for installs of Windows. It's required for OEM's to install it.

[N1LAF]

UEFI isn't required for installs of Windows. It's required for OEM's to install it.

Of course, that makes sense. Reload OS without verification, because the UEFI will take care of this(Microsoft angle). That is what it is probably about.

http://www.uefi.org/about/

[WN9HJW]

Deleted

[n2ize]

Well I can't fathom why anyone would deliberately load Windows 8 on a laptop.

Going back - What I was trying to find out is if I can load Linux onto a laptop that came with Windows 8.

i.e. to replace windows with linux


I don't see any reason why you should have a problem, particularly if you are dumping windows and replacing it with Linux.

Now, tomorrow I am going to attempt the "impossible"... that moment everyone fears... I am going to attempt to install Linux (Fedora 19) onto a UEFI laptop with Windows 8 pre-installed by the OEM (Dell) such that the system will easily and flawlessly dual boot into Windows or Linux via GRUB (or other boot loader) such that the user does not have to change BIOS settings or anything prior to loading either OS at boot time.

To Be ? Or, not to be ? That is the Question !!

[N8OBM]

And here's my first potentially dumb Linux Newb questions:

I see that there are some web shops that sell pre-configured Linux computers. For example, System 76 (https://www.system76.com/) and there are several others.

What is the advantage to buying one of those versus installing Linux on an OEM WIndows computer?

It doesn't seem like they cost that much less (i.e. free OS versus $Win) than an OEM Windows computer with the same hardware configuration.

I don't know if anybody has answered your question yet but the advantage is all the hardware is supported and configured for linux. Not all hardware makers make the specification of there hardware available and its not always possible to reverse engineer it. Motu audiowire cards (PCI324 and PCI424) are just one example. Adaptec has a bunch of SCSI cards that there is not linux support for. Sometimes linux installs without a hitch, other times you have to fuss with it to make it work. Sometimes it nice just to hit the power button and go.

Archie

BTW I've been playing with linux for the past 10 years or so. I like it and it just keeps getting better.

[n2ize]

I don't know if anybody has answered your question yet but the advantage is all the hardware is supported and configured for linux. Not all hardware makers make the specification of there hardware available and its not always possible to reverse engineer it. Motu audiowire cards (PCI324 and PCI424) are just one example. Adaptec has a bunch of SCSI cards that there is not linux support for. Sometimes linux installs without a hitch, other times you have to fuss with it to make it work. Sometimes it nice just to hit the power button and go.

Archie

BTW I've been playing with linux for the past 10 years or so. I like it and it just keeps getting better.

The latest Fedora distributions seem to be working better than ever right out of the box. In the old days the odds were good that after a new install or upgrade some of my hardware would not be working, usually a sound card or a wireless device, or a video card. In some cases to fix it I had to install special drivers, and if I couldn't find one I would have to replace the hardware with something that is supported. However, usually I would find a driver or a kernel patch that would fix the problem. Sometimes this involved me having to patch the kernel and recompile the entire kernel. Other times I had to manually edit the driver source code and compile is into a module that could be inserted into the running kernel.

These days I am running into these issues less and less. I recently installed Fedora 16 on a 64 bit dual core Dell Desktop and it worked flawlessly, right out of the box with no need to do anything. And just last week I installed Fedora 19 on a brand new Dell laptop and it worked flawlessly, all the hardware, i.e video, sound, wireless, camera, etc. worked perfectly,

I did have a bit of an issue with the new UEFI secure boot system that the OEM laptop comes configured to boot Windows 8 in secure UEFI mode. To install Linux I had to disable UEFI/Secure mode but then I couldn't get into Windows anymore. I had to beg Dell to send me the Windows 8 reinstallation disks, reformat the drive and re-install Windows and Linux in Legacy/BIOS mode in order to get a working dual boot system. This is a problem primarily with new systems with OEM Windows pre-installed in which you want to build a dual boot system. Since most free Linux distro's are not signed with the Microsoft key they won't boot in secure mode. There are work-arounds but they are sketchy, confusing, and not well documented yet. In my case the easiest way around the issue was just to reformat and re-install everything in Legacy/BIOS mode.. If you are not interested in a dual boot system you don;t have to worry. Just turn off secure mode and your good to go. Or get a copy of RHEL which is signed.