What Easter really means

[PA5COR]

http://theden.satpimps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8966&d=1364316003

[N2RJ]

I don't think it is news that the major Christian holidays have significant pagan elements.

[W3WN]

Goyim. A mol ikh meynen du bist gants meshuge.

[N2NH]

Yup. Heard this before. And Jesus wasn't born at the end of December. More likely spring. At least Easter is pretty much on target when it comes to the time of happening.

[N2CHX]

I don't think it is news that the major Christian holidays have significant pagan elements.

No, you're right. Christianity feels the need to try and destroy anything seen as a threat to it.

[w0aew]

I thought Ishtar was one of Hefner's bunnies.

[N2NH]

I thought Ishtar was one of Hefner's bunnies.

I thought it was a movie that bombed.
9211

[KC2UGV]

Yup. Heard this before. And Jesus wasn't born at the end of December. More likely spring. At least Easter is pretty much on target when it comes to the time of happening.

If he was born at all. Very little evidence exists that he was, and the story doesn't jibe with historical accounts of what happened in the region during that period.

[kb2vxa]

Please compare, this could get interesting.

[N2NH]

If he was born at all. Very little evidence exists that he was, and the story doesn't jibe with historical accounts of what happened in the region during that period.

World's best selling books sez he did. Give it a read and then let me know.



1. The Bible (http://www.librarything.com/work/18201) "No one really knows how many copies of the Bible have been printed, sold, or distributed. The Bible Society’s attempt to calculate the number printed between 1816 and 1975 produced the figure of 2,458,000,000. A more recent survey, for the years up to 1992, put it closer to 6,000,000,000 in more than 2,000 languages and dialects. Whatever the precise figure, the Bible is by far the bestselling book of all time." I quit counting the various editions on LT at 10,140. I'm sure there's more.

Between 2.46 Billion and 6 Billion sold. (http://www.librarything.com/topic/36145)

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/189-3970447-1450046?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+bible)

Free Read it Online (http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/matthew/1.html)

Then there's the view of Jews. Some say he was a good Jew, others...


Judaism generally views Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) as one of a number of false messiahs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_messiah) who have appeared throughout history.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-1) Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-2) However, since the mainstream Jewish belief is that the Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah) has not yet come and that the Messianic Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age) is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejection_of_Jesus) as either messiah or deity in Judaism has never been a central issue for Judaism. At the heart of Judaism are the Torah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah), its commandments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitzvah), the Tanakh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh), and ethical monotheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_monotheism) such as in the Shema (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema) — all of which predated Jesus.
Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfillments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Jesus. Judaism also forbids the worship of a person as a form of idolatry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry), since the central belief of Judaism is the absolute unity and singularity of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith#God_is_One).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-incompat-4) Jewish eschatology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology) holds that the coming of the Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah) will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Temple), a Messianic Age of peace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-bibleverse.7C.7CIsaiah.7C2:4.7CHE-5) and understanding during which "the knowledge of God" fills the earth,[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus#cite_note-bibleverse.7C.7CIsaiah.7C11:9.7CHE-6) and since Jews believe that none of these events occurred during the lifetime of Jesus (nor have they occurred afterwards, except for the return of many Jews to their homeland in Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)), he is not a candidate for messiah.



Judaism's view of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus)
Let's see what Islam says about Jesus...


Isa ( Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): عيسى, Transliteration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Arabic): ʿĪsā ), known as Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) in the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament) is considered to be a Messenger of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle_%28Islam%29) and the Masih (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih) (Messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah)) in Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-1) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites) (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_%28Islam%29) or Gospel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-2) The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim). The Quran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran) mentions Jesus by name twenty-five times, while it only mentions Muhammad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) by name four times.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-4) It states that Jesus was born to Mary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_%28mother_of_Jesus%29) (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Arabic): Maryam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_Mary)) as the result of virginal conception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus), a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Islam) (Arabic: Allah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah)). To aid in his ministry to the Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) people, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle) (such as healing the blind, bringing dead people back to life, etc.), all by the permission of God rather than of his own power. According to the Quran, Jesus, although appearing to have been crucified, was not killed by crucifixion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion) or by any other means, instead, "God raised him unto Himself". Like all prophets in Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam), Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Trinitarian Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity) view that Jesus was God incarnate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_%28Christianity%29) or the son of God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God), that he was ever crucified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion) or resurrected (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus), or that he ever atoned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement_in_Christianity) for the sins of mankind. The Quran says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-5) The Quran emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal human being who, like all other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God's message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28Islam%29)), emphasizing a strict notion of monotheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism) (tawhīd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid)).
Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Quran and in Islamic literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_literature), the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the messiah"). Jesus is also, at times, called "Seal of the Israelite Prophets", because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet) sent by God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter's coming.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-EoI-Isa-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam#cite_note-7)
Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiyamah) to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih_ad-Dajjal) ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antichrist))

Jesus in Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam)
Agnostics have to see. Atheists minds are set. But the three major religions? They all agree.

Jesus Lived.

[KC2UGV]

World's best selling books sez he did. Give it a read and then let me know.



Between 2.46 Billion and 6 Billion sold. (http://www.librarything.com/topic/36145)

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/189-3970447-1450046?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+bible)

Free Read it Online (http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/matthew/1.html)

Then there's the view of Jews. Some say he was a good Jew, others...



Judaism's view of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus)


Let's see what Islam says about Jesus...



Jesus in Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam)


Agnostics have to see. Atheists minds are set. But the three major religions? They all agree.

Jesus Lived.

That same book that claims Jesus lived, also claims that the earth is 6000 years old.

However, there are no accounts in any text by the Roman's (Who kept meticulous records) about a census during that period, or Herod slaughtering a bunch of kids. The Romans would have written about that, they love those stories of Roman bloodshed. There are also no records of said census. In fact, the period the Bible claims to be in, Herod wasn't governor.

That "best selling book" is full of errors.

[N2NH]

The question of the historicity of Jesus deals with the analysis of historical data to determine if Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) existed as a historical figure, approximately where and when he lived, and if any of the major milestones in his life, such as his method of death, can be confirmed as historical events. In contrast, the study of the historical Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus) goes beyond the question of his historicity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity) and attempts to reconstruct portraits of his life and teachings, based on methods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method) such as biblical criticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_criticism) of gospel texts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel) and the history of first century Judea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Judea).




























Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Ehrman285-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-2)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Grantmajority-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Burridge34-4) and biblical scholars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_scholar) and classical historians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_antiquity) regard theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-voorst16-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-DunnPaul35-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Stanton145-7) While there is little agreement on the historicity of gospel narratives and their theological assertions of his divinity[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-CEvans5-8)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Charles_H._Talbert_pg_42-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Jesus_1995-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-MAPowell168-11) most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee) Jew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) who was born between 7 and 2 BC and died 30–36 AD.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-ChronosPaul-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Kostenberger114-13)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-14) Most scholars hold that Jesus lived in Galilee and Judea, did not preach or study elsewhere[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-KGreen442-15)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Dunn303-16)[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Dominic28-17) and that he spoke Aramaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus) and may have also spoken Hebrew and possibly Greek.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-BarrLang-18)[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Porter110-19)[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-Hamp3-20) Although scholars differ on the reconstruction of the specific episodes of the life of Jesus, the two events whose historicity is subject to "almost universal assent" are that he was baptized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_Jesus) by John the Baptist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist) and shortly afterwards was crucified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus) by the order of the Roman Prefect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_governor) Pontius Pilate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate).

Historians say He existed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus)

You are entitled to your beliefs, but historians, scientists and theologians say He was indeed born.

[N2NH]

That same book that claims Jesus lived, also claims that the earth is 6000 years old.

However, there are no accounts in any text by the Roman's (Who kept meticulous records) about a census during that period, or Herod slaughtering a bunch of kids. The Romans would have written about that, they love those stories of Roman bloodshed. There are also no records of said census. In fact, the period the Bible claims to be in, Herod wasn't governor.

That "best selling book" is full of errors.

Nobody says that the Bible is scientifically accurate, particularly the Old Testament when it comes to time. It was written by nomads who had no idea of science as we understand it today. To expect otherwise is ludicrous. Translations have had some fairly small errors.

The Message though is clear.

[N2NH]

I'm not going to argue religion or which is better. As far as I'm concerned, believe as you wish. But to say that someone didn't exist? That is incredible.

As far as no Roman historical accounts, there's the account by Roman Historian Josephus Flavius (who was an Isrealite citizen of the Roman Empire):


The extant manuscripts of the writings of the 1st century Romano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_citizenship)-Jewish historian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_historians) Flavius Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Josephus) include references to Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus) and the origins of Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Christianity).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFeldmanHata198754-57-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFlavius_JosephusMaier1995284-285-2) Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiquities_of_the_Jews), written around 93–94 AD, includes two references to Jesus in Books 18 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XVIII#Chapter_3) and 20 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XX#Chapter_9) and a reference to John the Baptist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist) in Book 18 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XVIII#Chapter_5).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFeldmanHata198754-57-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFlavius_JosephusMaier199512-3)
Modern scholarship has almost universally acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XX#Chapter_9) of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-Feldman557-4) and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEVan_Voorst200083-5)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFeldmanHata198754-57-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFlavius_JosephusMaier1995284-285-2)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBauckham1999199-203-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPainter2005134-141-7)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-refsummary-8) Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XVIII#Chapter_5) of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist) to also be authentic.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEvans200655-58-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBromiley1982694-695-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhite201048-11)
Scholars have differing opinions on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Antiquities_of_the_Jews/Book_XVIII#Chapter_3) of the Antiquities to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate), a passage usually called the Testimonium Flavianum.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTESchreckenbergSchubert1992a38-41-12)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFeldmanHata198754-57-1) The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation_%28manuscripts%29).[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTESchreckenbergSchubert1992a38-41-12)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEKostenbergerKellumQuarles2009104-108-13)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEvans2001316-14)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWansbrough2004185-15)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDunn2003141-16)[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-Wells48-17) Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-18) there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.

and


The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as the Jewish War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wars_of_the_Jews), written 20 years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFeldman1984826-19) A number of variations exist between the statements by Josephus regarding the deaths of James and John the Baptist and the New Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament) accounts.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEEvans200655-58-9)[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPainter2005143.E2.80.93145-20) Scholars generally view these variations as indications that the Josephus passages are not interpolations, for a Christian interpolator would have made them correspond to the New Testament accounts, not differ from them.

Project Gutenberg free ebook page on Josephus Flavius. (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/1050)

Read it online. (http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/)

Josephus on Jesus.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#Testimonium_Flavianum)

[NQ6U]

450,000,000 Harry Potter books have been sold. That doesn't mean that any of what's in there is real.

[WØTKX]

Goyim. A mol ikh meynen du bist gants meshuge.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nRRQu-l7u7c/UChNKQ6lsbI/AAAAAAAAAUM/ysGGitwDzcI/s1600/Problems+cannot+be+solved+by+the+same+level+of+thi nking+that+created+them.+Albert+Einstein.jpg

[N2NH]

450,000,000 Harry Potter books have been sold. That doesn't mean that any of what's in there is real.

HAH! Tell that to them. <---LINK (https://www.facebook.com/TheHarryPotterReligion)

Or these guys <---LINK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Hogwarts-Religion/213047525400787)

[kb2vxa]

"That same book that claims Jesus lived, also claims that the earth is 6000 years old."

Since the Bible is clearly marked throughout with chapter and verse perhaps you may direct us to where it says that? I must have missed it in my reading.

"Nobody says that the Bible is scientifically accurate, particularly the Old Testament when it comes to time."

That depends on what you consider scientific and your use of the word time. A time period, that is a calendar date is easily determined by who was king at the time in question. A period of time however is ambiguous because units were not correlated as they are today. That's why there is so much speculation and argument trying to correlate a day in Genesis with today's units of time. Frankly creation took six periods of time one at a time and I'll leave it at that rather than wrack my brain and make a fool of myself in the eyes of others as so many have. More argument stems from not recognizing the numbers while focusing on the days. The number of Earth is 6, the Earth was created in 6 "days". The number of completion is 7, creation was complete so God rested on the 7th "day".

Oh, have you figured out weeks of years yet? That BTW is a specific measurement familiar to you all. Amazing how truth hides in plain sight, you have eyes yet you cannot see. I'm looking for a bit of discussion here, figuring out a riddle can take some interesting turns.

"It was written by nomads who had no idea of science as we understand it today."

You consider people who established cities nomads? Very few understand the science of the ancients which is why so many are amazed by it being so advanced by peoples they consider primitive. At least that part makes sense even though I fail to understand the meaning of "nomads" in this context. Even less understood are the occult sciences, occult meaning hidden and otherwise known as magic. No, not illusion to thrill the audience, magic is simply science not yet understood (hidden), when it is understood it becomes technology. Take the three Magi for example, magicians, wizards (wise men). They were Arab astronomers (most of the stars' names are Arabic) who upon hearing the news navigated by the stars to Bethlehem. Heh, the Star of Bethlehem really is no mystery, it's right there in front of you to find your way by if you understand astral navigation.

Abracadabra alakazam, biffo boffo bam SHAZAM! You're a frog looking for a princess, WATCH THE BIRDIE.

[N2NH]

"It was written by nomads who had no idea of science as we understand it today."

In the context of Genesis and Exodus, yes, to me those are nomads and farmers. Not learned men.

As far as time when it comes to the creation story, I submit this Link. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Peter%203:8&version=NIV;ESV;NKJV;NASB)

[KC2UGV]

Historians say He existed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus)

You are entitled to your beliefs, but historians, scientists and theologians say He was indeed born.

Historians also agree that a person named Christopher was born in Detroit between the years of 1900, and 1915. What does that prove?

I'll hazard a person named Jesus likely lived during the time period. A Jesus, who was from Nazareth, born in Bethlehem, hidden from a genocide in Egypt, disappeared for 30 years, and acquired 12 disciples? Not very likely. His "life" is most likely an agglomeration of multiple people's lives, and some earlier mythology for flavor.


Nobody says that the Bible is scientifically accurate, particularly the Old Testament when it comes to time. It was written by nomads who had no idea of science as we understand it today. To expect otherwise is ludicrous. Translations have had some fairly small errors.

The Message though is clear.

Yes, the message is clear: Kill anyone who might not agree with your notion of a deity. And treat women and children as property.

I don't even think the bible is morally accurate.


I'm not going to argue religion or which is better. As far as I'm concerned, believe as you wish. But to say that someone didn't exist? That is incredible.

As far as no Roman historical accounts, there's the account by Roman Historian Josephus Flavius (who was an Isrealite citizen of the Roman Empire):



and



Project Gutenberg free ebook page on Josephus Flavius. (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/1050)

Read it online. (http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/)

Josephus on Jesus.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus#Testimonium_Flavianum)

You know Josephus was recording the oral accounts of the Jews, right, and not a biographer, correct?

If I record the oral traditions of an aboriginal tribe, does that make them accurate?

[KC2UGV]

"That same book that claims Jesus lived, also claims that the earth is 6000 years old."

Since the Bible is clearly marked throughout with chapter and verse perhaps you may direct us to where it says that? I must have missed it in my reading.


You can figure it out by tracing the genealogy provided in Genesis. It works out to about 6000 years, from Adam to today.



"Nobody says that the Bible is scientifically accurate, particularly the Old Testament when it comes to time."

That depends on what you consider scientific and your use of the word time. A time period, that is a calendar date is easily determined by who was king at the time in question. A period of time however is ambiguous because units were not correlated as they are today. That's why there is so much speculation and argument trying to correlate a day in Genesis with today's units of time. Frankly creation took six periods of time one at a time and I'll leave it at that rather than wrack my brain and make a fool of myself in the eyes of others as so many have. More argument stems from not recognizing the numbers while focusing on the days. The number of Earth is 6, the Earth was created in 6 "days". The number of completion is 7, creation was complete so God rested on the 7th "day".

Oh, have you figured out weeks of years yet? That BTW is a specific measurement familiar to you all. Amazing how truth hides in plain sight, you have eyes yet you cannot see. I'm looking for a bit of discussion here, figuring out a riddle can take some interesting turns.


Frankly, the hebrew word for day used there was a 24 hour period, from sunrise, to sunrise.



"It was written by nomads who had no idea of science as we understand it today."

You consider people who established cities nomads? Very few understand the science of the ancients which is why so many are amazed by it being so advanced by peoples they consider primitive. At least that part makes sense even though I fail to understand the meaning of "nomads" in this context. Even less understood are the occult sciences, occult meaning hidden and otherwise known as magic. No, not illusion to thrill the audience, magic is simply science not yet understood (hidden), when it is understood it becomes technology. Take the three Magi for example, magicians, wizards (wise men). They were Arab astronomers (most of the stars' names are Arabic) who upon hearing the news navigated by the stars to Bethlehem. Heh, the Star of Bethlehem really is no mystery, it's right there in front of you to find your way by if you understand astral navigation.

Abracadabra alakazam, biffo boffo bam SHAZAM! You're a frog looking for a princess, WATCH THE BIRDIE.

Cities were established for quite some time prior to Genesis. The first city popped up circa 7000 BC, about 6000 years prior to the dating of Genesis. The name of that city is Çatalhöyük, in Turkey.

Yes, they were nomads.

The star of Bethlehem is pretty funny. Apparently, it's signaled three different messiahs during our history. First being Mithras.

[W3WN]

If he was born at all. Very little evidence exists that he was, and the story doesn't jibe with historical accounts of what happened in the region during that period.The story was written and rewritten and polished and edited and translated and transliterated and rewritten yet once again so many times... and that was just in the first few centuries, when Rome was still an empire and Christianity was still trying to get a foothold.

Is it any wonder that the story... with all the editing, with all the elements brought in from other religions of the time... has few facts that can be verified by today's exacting standards?

The religious will tell you that the story must be taken on Faith. Or that the story isn't always a literal account of history (of course, some WILL tell you that it is, but I digress).

Did Jesus exist? That's a damn good question.

Personally, I believe that someone did exist during the period of time; a teacher, a rabbi, a leader, very probably someone we'd today call a political extremist as well. I believe that this individual, whomever he was, is the historical basis for the religious icon that today is named Jesus. I believe that his followers evolved into a cult of personality, and from there into a branch of Judaism and eventually it's own religion outright. But that's as far as my beliefs go.

[KC2UGV]

The story was written and rewritten and polished and edited and translated and transliterated and rewritten yet once again so many times... and that was just in the first few centuries, when Rome was still an empire and Christianity was still trying to get a foothold.

Is it any wonder that the story... with all the editing, with all the elements brought in from other religions of the time... has few facts that can be verified by today's exacting standards?

The religious will tell you that the story must be taken on Faith. Or that the story isn't always a literal account of history (of course, some WILL tell you that it is, but I digress).

Did Jesus exist? That's a damn good question.

Personally, I believe that someone did exist during the period of time; a teacher, a rabbi, a leader, very probably someone we'd today call a political extremist as well. I believe that this individual, whomever he was, is the historical basis for the religious icon that today is named Jesus. I believe that his followers evolved into a cult of personality, and from there into a branch of Judaism and eventually it's own religion outright. But that's as far as my beliefs go.

And, that is where I sit as well. I'll agree there was most likely some sort of figure, who was probably crucified for the same reasons you named above. However, the Jesus described in the bible? Doubtful.

[NQ6U]

HAH! Tell that to them. <---LINK (https://www.facebook.com/TheHarryPotterReligion)

Or these guys <---LINK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Hogwarts-Religion/213047525400787)

Doesn't matter what they believe, just like it doesn't matter that people believe in what's written in the bible. Mere belief does not make it true.

That said, I believe I'll have another beer. Barkeep?

[NA4BH]

Wouldn't this fare better in the religious section?

[N2NH]

Historians also agree that a person named Christopher was born in Detroit between the years of 1900, and 1915. What does that prove?

Apparently that he didn't exist. Historians don't say a guy named Jesus was born in Jerusalem around 3 BC, they say Jesus Christ was born there. Big difference. And Fact.


I'll hazard a person named Jesus likely lived during the time period. A Jesus, who was from Nazareth, born in Bethlehem, hidden from a genocide in Egypt, disappeared for 30 years, and acquired 12 disciples? Not very likely. His "life" is most likely an agglomeration of multiple people's lives, and some earlier mythology for flavor.

Where does it say He disappeared?


Yes, the message is clear: Kill anyone who might not agree with your notion of a deity. And treat women and children as property.

Not even close. If you believe the Old Testament maybe. Christians follow the teachings of Christ. New Testament. I suggest that you read the book before further comments. I know I've never killed anyone who disagreed with my beliefs. I can say that some who claim to be Christians, have tried to kill me and some Muslims and Jews have tried to cause physical harm for that perceived sin, but I myself have not. Sorry that the broad brush isn't covering me.

[W7XF]

What does the Spring Festival have to offer???

More rabbits for my Collie/Retriever mix to chase!!!! (and catch!)

[KB3LAZ]

What does the Spring Festival have to offer???

More rabbits for my Collie/Retriever mix to chase!!!! (and catch!)

Dust bunnies to be exact. However, worship with care as they will make you sneeze.

[W7XF]

Nope, Travalicious....real cottontail bunnies!

[KB3LAZ]

Nope, Travalicious....real cottontail bunnies!

How do you intend to cook them? Or are you going to leave them to the dog? Interestingly, we will have rabbit for dinner here on Easter. The Easter bunny, poor bastard.

[W7XF]

She eats them of her own accord. But all that bunny chasing does keep her in good physical condition...and the bunnies away from my antenna wires.....

[W3WN]

What does the Spring Festival have to offer???

More rabbits for my Collie/Retriever mix to chase!!!! (and catch!)Yours catches them?

Lucy Furr tries, she really tries. Problem for her is that the bunnies squeeze under the fence, and she can't, so she gets stopped.

But the neighborhood rabbits are well exercised!

[w0aew]

How do you intend to cook them? Or are you going to leave them to the dog? Interestingly, we will have rabbit for dinner here on Easter. The Easter bunny, poor bastard.

Blasphemer!

[KC2UGV]

Apparently that he didn't exist. Historians don't say a guy named Jesus was born in Jerusalem around 3 BC, they say Jesus Christ was born there. Big difference. And Fact.


I wonder where historians get the evidence of that. Because he exists in no census records, and nothing earlier than Josephus' recordings of the Jewish oral tradition mentions him.



Where does it say He disappeared?


Have you read anything about his life from the age of 2 until the age of 30?



Not even close. If you believe the Old Testament maybe. Christians follow the teachings of Christ. New Testament. I suggest that you read the book before further comments. I know I've never killed anyone who disagreed with my beliefs. I can say that some who claim to be Christians, have tried to kill me and some Muslims and Jews have tried to cause physical harm for that perceived sin, but I myself have not. Sorry that the broad brush isn't covering me.

Christians also hold the bible is in the infallible word of god. The whole thing. Not just half.

Even Jesus said,"Do not think I've come to abolish the law, but fulfill it."

Yes, I read the NT. I, in fact, was just shy of 2 weeks from attending seminary prior to backing out of it.

[n2ize]

s. I can say that some who claim to be Christians, have tried to kill me and some Muslims and Jews have tried to cause physical harm for that perceived sin, but I myself have not. Sorry that the broad brush isn't covering me.

I have experienced the same thing. On one occasion I was walking past a Christian church and two Christians came out and confronted me with switchblades, stiletto and gravity knives, and brass knuckes. One of them tried to plunge the knife through my heart but I dodged him and took the knife away from him. The other one came at me with a large gravity knife but I knocked it our of his hand and threw it down a sewer. Disarmed and with one of their own knives now in my hands they turned tail and ran back into church. I shrugged, tossed the switchblade into the nearest trash bin, and continued on my way. On another occasion a Christian and a Muslim and a Jewish guy took a shot at me. Fortunately they missed.

[KC2UGV]

On another occasion a Christian and a Muslim and a Jewish guy took a shot at me. Fortunately they missed.

This sounds like the start of a joke...

[W3WN]

< snip >
Have you read anything about his life from the age of 2 until the age of 30?
< snip >Allegedly, this is covered in the Apocrypha, Psudepigrapha, and the other so-called "Lost Books of the Bible"

Allegedly, many of these writings were considered for inclusion in what is now known as the New Testament, but for various reasons were not. Allegedly, there are additional "suppresed" writings, books, and documentation... but that's another story.

Regardless, many of these books still exist, even if they are not considered Canon by the religious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_Apocrypha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Books_of_the_Bible_and_the_Forgotten_Book s_of_Eden

[NQ6U]

This sounds like the start of a joke...

A Christian, a Muslim and a Jew walk into a bar together and take a shot at John. The bartender says "Hey, what is this? A joke?"

[N2NH]

On another occasion a Christian and a Muslim and a Jewish guy took a shot at me. Fortunately they missed.

:rofl:

I think they were being kind. Head wounds like that aren't noticeable to the victim.

[KG4CGC]

The Jesus story is an allegory of a man who live approximately 30 before Jesus or who was killed about the time Jesus was one. The idea of resurrection from death was added in when they decided to use a carpenter's son to carry on the message.

[W3WN]

The Jesus story is an allegory of a man who live approximately 30 before Jesus or who was killed about the time Jesus was one. The idea of resurrection from death was added in when they decided to use a carpenter's son to carry on the message.Maybe. Maybe not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passover_Plot

[kb2vxa]

Subtitled The Jesus Conspiracy, A Communist Plot. (;->) Seriously, his conclusions look like modern government/military black ops tactics adopted by the typical cult leader which make me wonder about his perspective beginning with #5. Numbers 1 through 4 are well documented facts but then they begin to wander, mixing well known truth with shall we say questionable statements (I stop short of calling them lies) is at the heart of propaganda against a people or a group. Such was Goebbels defaming the Jews, Allied propaganda against the Germans and Japanese in WW2, calling Asians slopes and gooks during Korea and Vietnam, etc. thus demonizing a perceived enemy. And it makes me wonder...

[N2NH]

Maybe. Maybe not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passover_Plot

Thanks for the book. I hope to read it soon (it's not in any of the libraries here).

[n2ize]

Doesn't matter what they believe, just like it doesn't matter that people believe in what's written in the bible. Mere belief does not make it true.

That said, I believe I'll have another beer. Barkeep?

Well, if its on da Internetz and enough people believe it then its got to be true, right ? ;) Like a lot of people on the Internetz believed that Nibru was going to swallow the earth and the world was going to end in December 2012. So it must have ended and all this is an illusion.

[W3WN]

Thanks for the book. I hope to read it soon (it's not in any of the libraries here).I read it many, many years ago. Now I'm not saying that the author is correct, in whole or in part... but his explanation makes sense. If it's not what actually happened, at least it's a plausible (more or less) alternative.

On a related note... I went to Good Friday mass last night with the boss, since Little Miss Field Day was singing with the choir & had a solo. (Of course, I think she was fantastic, but I know my opinion is biased). They did something at the end of the service that I don't remember ever seeing before. Everyone was asked to come up to the altar, touch the wooden cross, and then sing a prayer. With appropriate dimmed lights at times & the usual special effects.

No disrespect to anyone or anyone's beliefs, but to be honest, the whole thing gave me the creeps. And I'm not sure I can tell you why. Of course, being one of only two people who did NOT come up to the altar, out of a hundred plus or so... and the other one was a little old lady with a walker, who simply had trouble getting there... well, I felt kind of strange to begin with, so that no doubt had an effect on my mood. I certainly felt like an outsider looking in... which, of course, I am.

Regardless... as I said, I've never seen that before, and this isn't the first time I've been dragged to asked to join the ladies at a Good Friday service... and the boss doesn't remember doing that before, either... so I'm wondering if anyone out there knows just what the blazes was going on...

[NQ6U]

[...] I'm wondering if anyone out there knows just what the blazes was going on...

Sorry, I can't help you. I was raised up nominally Catholic and I never did figure it out. I agree that the whole thing is vaguely creepy, though.

[N8GAV]

Want to know what Easter really means? Grandkids busting through the at door at 10 am looking for baskets full of candy, then eatting it till they bounce off the walls. The old lady cooking and bitching about doing it. Daughter and son-in-laws sitting on their asses and not offering to do a damn thing, my TV being taken over by son-in-laws whatching something I don't want to. And all this bullshit over some wise ass, that the people who followed him thought he was God on earth some 2,000 years ago. Now that what Easter really means.

[N2NH]

I read it many, many years ago. Now I'm not saying that the author is correct, in whole or in part... but his explanation makes sense. If it's not what actually happened, at least it's a plausible (more or less) alternative.

On a related note... I went to Good Friday mass last night with the boss, since Little Miss Field Day was singing with the choir & had a solo. (Of course, I think she was fantastic, but I know my opinion is biased). They did something at the end of the service that I don't remember ever seeing before. Everyone was asked to come up to the altar, touch the wooden cross, and then sing a prayer. With appropriate dimmed lights at times & the usual special effects.

No disrespect to anyone or anyone's beliefs, but to be honest, the whole thing gave me the creeps. And I'm not sure I can tell you why. Of course, being one of only two people who did NOT come up to the altar, out of a hundred plus or so... and the other one was a little old lady with a walker, who simply had trouble getting there... well, I felt kind of strange to begin with, so that no doubt had an effect on my mood. I certainly felt like an outsider looking in... which, of course, I am.

Regardless... as I said, I've never seen that before, and this isn't the first time I've been dragged to asked to join the ladies at a Good Friday service... and the boss doesn't remember doing that before, either... so I'm wondering if anyone out there knows just what the blazes was going on...

I have no idea what Catholics do these days. I haven't worshiped at one of their churches in years. Episcoplian, Presbyterian and even at a Synagogue, yes, but not at a Catholic Church. The last time I was involved with them, they weren't doing Good Friday masses. They had when I was a kid, but not in the 80s.

[n2ize]

To me Easter is just like any other day in the week. As a matter of fact it is an annoying day because people expect me to go visiting people or go to dinner, etc. Visiting is boring to me, there is little or nothing interesting to do when I am at other peoples homes,and big holiday dinners are fattening and I don't need or want them. Also it takes me away from important things that I want to do.

[NA4BH]

Everyone was asked to come up to the altar, touch the wooden cross, and then sing a prayer.

No disrespect to anyone or anyone's beliefs, but to be honest, the whole thing gave me the creeps


No disrespect taken. But it's no creepier than "Kissing/touching" the Torah when it goes by. I do it when I go to Synagogue with my friends, out of respect for them.

[w0aew]

No disrespect taken. But it's no creepier than "Kissing/touching" the Torah when it goes by. I do it when I go to Synagogue with my friends, out of respect for them.

I stay out of churches, synagogues, mosques, and temples out of respect for everybody.

[N2NH]

To those observing, Happy Easter.

[NQ6U]

To those observing, Happy Easter.

I hard a really hard time waking up this morning—it felt like I'd been dead for three days. These damned nail holes hurt like hell, too.

—Pope Carlo l

[PA5COR]

For me it was the change to summer time and the "loss" of one hour, preparing to have my internal bio clock being f*cked up for a weeek or so...