The Why Linux Is Awesome Thread [Archive] - The Island Of Misfit Hams

KC2UGV

02-12-2013, 08:01 PM

True. But that's the only real commercial distro left, isn't it? Is Mandriva even around anymore since it changed from Mandrake to Mandriva and went commercial? I used to love Mandrake but then they did that and I moved on and never looked back.

It's still there. Sorta. http://www.mandriva.com/en/

Don't know of anyone that uses it. I loved Mandrake too! Then they moved to the "Closed, but you can get the source once you buy..." model. The only thing keeping RHEL afloat I think it CentOS and Fedora. Well, that, and their JBoss server.

W4GPL

02-12-2013, 08:07 PM

Oracle and Novell both have "commercial" Linux distributions..

KC2UGV

02-12-2013, 08:11 PM

Oracle and Novell both have "commercial" Linux distributions..

Redhat Oracle Linux?

KJ3N

02-12-2013, 08:15 PM

No hunting around for registration/license keys if you need to reinstall it after a hard drive failure or for a new install.

I never have to search for a key. The Windows install stuff I have has the key already in it. ;) :whistle:

W4GPL

02-12-2013, 08:18 PM

Redhat Oracle Linux?It's still rebranded and supported and has it's own government certifications.. it also includes KSplice.. I'd never buy it, but it's a commercial Linux option in it's own right.

KJ3N

02-12-2013, 08:25 PM

It's still there. Sorta. http://www.mandriva.com/en/

Don't know of anyone that uses it.

I did until about a year or 2 ago. There was a time when I was also a pretty heavy OS/2 user, but that stopped about 4 years ago.

As much as I hate to admit it, Win 7 has been just fine for me. XP wasn't all that bad, either. Unlike a lot of people I know who seem to have no end of malware / virus issues, I just keep on chugging along.

Of course, I'm only self "ed-ju-ma-kated" about this computer "stuff". WTF do I know..... :dunno:

W4GPL

02-13-2013, 12:23 PM

I ran an OS/2 BBS for a long time.. I kept all the shareware from Filebone related to OS/2.. only node in Florida.

KJ3N

02-13-2013, 12:27 PM

I ran an OS/2 BBS for a long time.. I kept all the shareware from Filebone related to OS/2.. only node in Florida.

BBS.... flashback to the late 80s and early 90s....

Geez, I'm getting old....

KC2UGV

02-13-2013, 12:29 PM

NM5TF

02-13-2013, 12:39 PM

And it works. And it doesn't have a registry to get corrupted/infected. And it doesn't come out of Redmond, WA.

EDIT: And I've never received a virus-infected spam e-mail from a Linux user.

4 good reasons to run Linux & never look back....

was totally happy with Win XP for years...then came Vista....nuff said....

been with the Penguin since late 2008...never had any problems that
weren't caused by my tweaking things...

N2CHX

02-13-2013, 03:14 PM

BBS.... flashback to the late 80s and early 90s....

Geez, I'm getting old....

Nah, I ran one. And I'm waaay younger than you lol.

KJ3N

02-13-2013, 03:25 PM

Nah, I ran one. And I'm waaay younger than you lol.

GTFOML! :neener:

n2ize

02-13-2013, 10:26 PM

And it works. And it doesn't have a registry to get corrupted/infected. And it doesn't come out of Redmond, WA.

EDIT: And I've never received a virus-infected spam e-mail from a Linux user.

Way back when i had a dialup connection to the Internet using my Linux system someone hacked my machine, installed a rootkit which set up a backdoor that allowed him root access. He then installed "eggdrop" from a tarball, compiled it, and ran it. he also installed a port scanner and was using it to scan blovks of network adresses. I got wise when I woke up in the middle of the night and noticed a heck of a lot of strange traffic going in and out of my connection. I wiped the drive and did a full reinstal, this time hardening up the system (firewall, closing all but needed ports, roootkit scanner, etc.) to assure it wouldn't happen again. It never has.

n2ize

02-13-2013, 10:29 PM

Another thing I love about Linux, is I get to choose the level of customization. I can go with a near perfect, out of the box experience (Linux Mint) where about the only thing to do is change your desktop wall paper, or, I can go as low customization as building then entire OS from source, tweaking each step of the way to my heart's content.

I still use source tarballs so I can customize and tweak various settings and features Then I'll either install once the tarball is compiled or I'll build custom rpm's.

W4GPL

02-13-2013, 10:34 PM

Yeah, RedHat 6.2 (not EL) was really vulnerable without updating immediately. I did an install at work, went to lunch, and by the time I got back the box was hacked.

KJ3N

02-13-2013, 10:42 PM

Ok, so I'm in the mood to wipe my system and start from scratch. Win 7 and ......?

N8YX

02-14-2013, 06:47 AM

Ok, so I'm in the mood to wipe my system and start from scratch. Win 7 and ......?

Linux Mint 14 in dual boot.

You'll thank me in the morning. ;)

N2CHX

02-14-2013, 06:55 AM

Linux Mint 14 in dual boot.

You'll thank me in the morning. ;)

I second that one!

NY4Q

02-14-2013, 08:03 AM

Hmm, the ping of death, fork bombs, smurf attacks, ahhh the good ole days...

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 08:04 AM

Linux Mint 14 in dual boot.

You'll thank me in the morning. ;)

As opposed to ....?

N8YX

02-14-2013, 08:21 AM

As opposed to ....?

Ubuntu or a Debian-specific release. Haven't played with Fedora for several years, but all the Linux crew I interact with are Mint enthusiasts...having switched from the other distros.

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 08:38 AM

Ok, so I'm in the mood to wipe my system and start from scratch. Win 7 and ......?

Do you have an extra drive bay available? SATA based hard drive?

Use something like this:
http://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/products/main/HSB100SATBK.Main.jpg
$18 at Walmart, PC Connection, etc..

Keep the original HD config, and start over with new HD.

When completely setup, the old drive can be recycled, stand by OS, hold template OS setup, etc.

KC2UGV

02-14-2013, 08:39 AM

As opposed to ....?

You wont go wrong with either LM 14, or Ubuntu. Both are pretty much set to go out of the box. LM I prefer, only because they simplify codec installation, and other tools.

However, you could also go with CentOS or Fedora Core. CentOS is if you desire to translate your skills to professional work. Fedora more for bleeding edge kind of feeling.

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 08:46 AM

I have 3 HDs in the system; 250G IDE (boot drive), 320G IDE slave, and 250G SATA.

Assuming I put LM 14 on the boot drive, how much space should I set aside for the install?

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 08:50 AM

Do you have an extra drive bay available? SATA based hard drive?

Use something like this:
http://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/media/products/main/HSB100SATBK.Main.jpg
$18 at Walmart, PC Connection, etc..

Keep the original HD config, and start over with new HD.

When completely setup, the old drive can be recycled, stand by OS, hold template OS setup, etc.That's rather ridiculous advice, Paul.

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 08:53 AM

I have 3 HDs in the system; 250G IDE (boot drive), 320G IDE slave, and 250G SATA.

Assuming I put LM 14 on the boot drive, how much space should I set aside for the install?You don't need much, unless you plan on storing a lot of media on your Linux partition. 40GB would be more than plenty, but you can probably get away with a lot less.

FWIW, I use Fedora on my desktop systems. I don't make distribution recommendations, but I felt compelled to say something after some of the absolutist statements made by others.

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 08:56 AM

Nice write up on Linux Mint:
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/141174-linux-mint-14-released-its-like-windows-8-minus-the-bad-bits/2

Things to consider:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/76989.html

Upcoming Version:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2021461/three-new-features-coming-in-linux-mint-15.html

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 08:56 AM

That's rather ridiculous advice, Paul.

Explain why

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 09:00 AM

Explain whyBecause it's not 1996? Physically swapping drives is something Fred Flintstone would have to do. With the size of drives now, if you want a template or an image (which in itself seems unnecessary), you can just throw it on another partition.. or even the existing partition.

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 09:10 AM

Because it's not 1996? Physically swapping drives is something Fred Flintstone would have to do. With the size of drives now, if you want a template or an image (which in itself seems unnecessary), you can just throw it on another partition.. or even the existing partition.

It's a preference. I use it for my data drives, as was very handy this past summer when my desktop system motherboard went down. I popped the data drive out, and put it into a USB 3/eSATA docking station and had instant data access through my laptop.

I do agree with the partition template on the drive. I also backed up my OS templates to a DVD+DL, in case of a very rare mechanical drive failure.

As far as the boot drive, I would retain the original drive and set up on a new drive in case there is a problem with the install, you are not dead in the water. There has been a couple times I revisited the previous OS for OS and program settings to carry over to the new OS. It's a conservative approach.

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 09:12 AM

You don't need much, unless you plan on storing a lot of media on your Linux partition. 40GB would be more than plenty, but you can probably get away with a lot less.

No, media will be on the other 2 drives and will be NTFS formatted. As long as I can read from them under Mint, that will be fine. Writing to them shouldn't be a problem either, but I've been out of the Linux circles for a while.

One last thing. I remember there being some issues running 64-bit Linux and certain FF plugins. Is that still a problem?

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 09:16 AM

One last thing. I remember there being some issues running 64-bit Linux and certain FF plugins. Is that still a problem?In some rare circumstances, but mostly no.. Adobe isn't updating Flash beyond 11.2 for Firefox, but 11.5 is shipped with Chrome and works great. Java also works fine, but some apps are just written poorly and don't work on 64bit, but that tends to be a problem in Windows too.

Also regarding NTFS -- yes, you can read/write to an NTFS file system without any issues nowadays.

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 09:30 AM

Jeff, what program would you recommend to handle multi-booting?

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 09:31 AM

Now to start the Holy War. ;)

Cinnamon, KDE, or Xfce?

(running for cover....)

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 09:31 AM

Jeff, what program would you recommend to handle multi-booting?grub2 - comes standard with most all Linux distributions.

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 09:34 AM

Now to start the Holy War. ;)

Cinnamon, KDE, or Xfce?

(running for cover....)I use Xfce - KDE is an abomination. I've heard decent things about Cinnamon, but I have not used it myself.

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 09:35 AM

grub2 - comes standard with most all Linux distributions.

Suppose I take a hard drive, and put 4 partitions on it, and install 3 different Linux variations on this hard drive, what would the order of steps I would have to do to accomplish this, assuming using grub2?

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 09:39 AM

Well you're going to probably want to use LVM and not standard partitions -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux)

In most cases the installer for the distribution will just add itself to your existing grub configuration.

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 09:55 AM

I use Xfce - KDE is an abomination. I've heard decent things about Cinnamon, but I have not used it myself.

When I was running Mandrake / Mandriva, KDE was the default. Kind of got used to it. Never gave it a second thought.

I ran Ubuntu briefly, which I think used Gnome. It was ok, but I didn't run Ubuntu long enough to get used to Gnome.

I may try the different environments, even if it means I have to re-install Mint a few times.

KC2UGV

02-14-2013, 09:56 AM

Now to start the Holy War. ;)

Cinnamon, KDE, or Xfce?

(running for cover....)

Depends. Xfce is a lightweight, windows look-alike. I'm preferential to Blackbox or Ratpoison. I wouldn't recommend ratpoison unless you are already handy with the "screen" command interface.

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 10:02 AM

I ran Ubuntu briefly, which I think used Gnome. It was ok, but I didn't run Ubuntu long enough to get used to Gnome.

I may try the different environments, even if it means I have to re-install Mint a few times.Xfce is a lot like Gnome 2.. which is how I ended up using it. Gnome 3 really turned me off, so I switched to Xfce. It's basic, but it's also full featured -- if that makes any sense. It's a good mix of both worlds.

I have used Fluxbox (similar to Corey's solution) on very low memory systems.. it's decent, but not for a new user.

And... you don't have to reinstall Mint, all of the above can be installed at the same time and will allow you to choose which DE (desktop environment) you want at boot time.

N2CHX

02-14-2013, 01:13 PM

Xfce is a lot like Gnome 2.. which is how I ended up using it. Gnome 3 really turned me off, so I switched to Xfce. It's basic, but it's also full featured -- if that makes any sense. It's a good mix of both worlds.

I have used Fluxbox (similar to Corey's solution) on very low memory systems.. it's decent, but not for a new user.

And... you don't have to reinstall Mint, all of the above can be installed at the same time and will allow you to choose which DE (desktop environment) you want at boot time.

Yeah, Gnome 2 was pretty good but Gnome 3 was horrible. It was like Linux for Kindergärtners. That's when I switched to Linux Mint with Cinnamon for my desktop needs.

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 02:51 PM

I may try the different environments, even if it means I have to re-install Mint a few times.
Xfce is a lot like Gnome 2.. which is how I ended up using it. Gnome 3 really turned me off, so I switched to Xfce. It's basic, but it's also full featured -- if that makes any sense. It's a good mix of both worlds.

I have used Fluxbox (similar to Corey's solution) on very low memory systems.. it's decent, but not for a new user.

And... you don't have to reinstall Mint, all of the above can be installed at the same time and will allow you to choose which DE (desktop environment) you want at boot time.

Well, looking at the main page (http://www.linuxmint.com/), it seems there are 3 different downloads available. Anyone want to comment on that?

What DE I wind up using is not going to depend on which is "lighter". I've got 8GB of RAM to play with.

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 04:16 PM

Main page of...?

KJ3N

02-14-2013, 04:23 PM

Main page of...?

Forgot that this forum software does underline links automatically. See previous post now.

W4GPL

02-14-2013, 04:30 PM

http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php - You want the 64bit Cinnamon or Xfce, I suspect.

http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=128 - this is Xfce.

N1LAF

02-14-2013, 05:03 PM

Forgot that this forum software does underline links automatically. See previous post now.

First signs of old age...

;) :stickpoke:

KB3LAZ

02-14-2013, 06:33 PM

Yeah, Gnome 2 was pretty good but Gnome 3 was horrible. It was like Linux for Kindergärtners. That's when I switched to Linux Mint with Cinnamon for my desktop needs.

That is not a bad thing. Some of us need baby steps when switching over. A kindergarten version would probably have been better for me. xD

Im running fedora as I still can not get mint to connect to the internet. :P

n6hcm

02-15-2013, 03:00 AM

what a buncha pussies. edit /etc/inittab and don't start X unless you need to. get a real console window from the start. start an X server and a simple window manager when you need it. no biggie.

KC2UGV

02-15-2013, 07:44 AM

what a buncha pussies. edit /etc/inittab and don't start X unless you need to. get a real console window from the start. start an X server and a simple window manager when you need it. no biggie.

Why inittab? Most things are managed by init, which uses the rc.d directory structure, per the LSB standard. You should be creating rc.d entries, and using chkconfig to enable/disable them.

W4GPL

02-15-2013, 08:19 AM

Because the runlevel is[was] set by inittab which determines if X starts by default.

Now with systemd, that's not the case anymore.

what a buncha pussies. edit /etc/inittab and don't start X unless you need to. get a real console window from the start. start an X server and a simple window manager when you need it. no biggie.Edit: I don't know if you're serious, but that's a rather ridiculous thing to say. I run Linux on my desktop full time and I happen to enjoy not having to start X every time I want to run Firefox. Running a GUI does not make you a 'pussy'.. especially in a desktop scenario. Stallman, Linus, Cox all run modern DEs, so what world are you living in? I'd never dream of having X installed on my servers, but in not going to make my life difficult on my desktop just because of some absurd notion that a mouse cursor and a few graphical enhancements makes me a pussy.

KC2UGV

02-15-2013, 08:22 AM

Because the runlevel is[was] set by inittab which determines if X starts by default.

Now with systemd, that's not the case anymore.
.

Well, ok, I got it now.

NY4Q

02-15-2013, 05:32 PM

Yeah, RedHat 6.2 (not EL) was really vulnerable without updating immediately. I did an install at work, went to lunch, and by the time I got back the box was hacked.

Funny you should mention that. Once I got an e-mail from a feller saying there was suspicious network activity coming from one of my networks. He gave me an IP. I didn't recognize it as one of mine but it was on one of my networks.

It turned out that the AP engineering students kids at the high school was learning networking and the teacher let them set up a RH6.2 box and had plugged it into a public IP port there in that lab. I did an NMAP scan and about 20 ports were WAO (wide ass open).

SO I spent the rest of the afternoon with them teaching then how to kill off the extra processes RH had turned on, then to set up an IPChains firewall.

Funny.

n2ize

02-20-2013, 02:43 PM

Yeah, RedHat 6.2 (not EL) was really vulnerable without updating immediately. I did an install at work, went to lunch, and by the time I got back the box was hacked.

I think the version that was compromised (rootkitted) was either 5 or 6. Yeah, in those days things were pretty vulnerable out of the box until you applied the updates and set up proper access permissions, firewall rules, etc. These days the Fedora installs are pretty secure right out of the box. But there is always some additional work that can be done to tighten things up and make the system even more secure.

W3WN

02-21-2013, 08:59 AM

I ran an OS/2 BBS for a long time.. I kept all the shareware from Filebone related to OS/2.. only node in Florida.
BBS.... flashback to the late 80s and early 90s....

Geez, I'm getting old....I still have an OS/2 CD or two sitting around somewhere... they make great coasters...

Seriously, that did remind me... the engineering firm I once worked at was a Netware shop, prior to acquisition at least. We did have one OS/2 box in the server room; it was the routing "central" Post Office for our (pre-IBM) Lotus cc:Mail system... dating myself, ain't I?

Anyway, I once ran into someone who was a bit of an OS/2 guru, asked him if he could help us add a few tweaks to the mail router. He came back with a scheme to convert the entire office -- servers, workstations, you name it -- from Netware & Windows to OS/2. Of course, we'd have to hire him as a consultant to both do the conversions and then maintain the systems... and that was the last time he ever walked into the building...

NQ6U

02-21-2013, 10:01 AM

dating myself, ain't I?

That's legal only in Arkansas.

KJ3N

02-21-2013, 10:35 AM

I still have an OS/2 CD or two sitting around somewhere... they make great coasters...

Which version? 2.11, Warp 3, or Warp 4?

Seriously, that did remind me... the engineering firm I once worked at was a Netware shop, prior to acquisition at least. We did have one OS/2 box in the server room; it was the routing "central" Post Office for our (pre-IBM) Lotus cc:Mail system... dating myself, ain't I?

Small potatoes. BCBS of Delaware had an entire CSR system based on OS/2. It was an IBM contracted solution, based on version 2.11. Images for the workstations were kept on the OS/2 server and the install was done via a 3 disc set of floppies. Nobody on the BCBS internal IT team really had a clue how the thing worked. When a PC would corrupt, or HD would fail, they simply put the 3 floppies into the machine and a fresh image would be pulled down.

They started running into problems when they were swapping out old hardware for new Dell PCs. The floppy set was engineered around the old PCs and wouldn't work on the new hardware. Since the old hardware was getting close to 4 years old, this was going to be a problem.

Fortunately for them, I was the only guy with OS/2 experience working for the external contractor they had for desktop support. They gave me the floppy set and asked if I could figure it out. Of course by this time, I had been running OS/2 at home for nearly 4 years.

It took the better part of the day to find the areas where the install would fail (typically hardware drivers), find the new drivers, and remake the install floppies. Given that, until this point, I had never run into a corporate environment running OS/2, I felt pretty good about the whole thing.

Anyway, I once ran into someone who was a bit of an OS/2 guru, asked him if he could help us add a few tweaks to the mail router. He came back with a scheme to convert the entire office -- servers, workstations, you name it -- from Netware & Windows to OS/2. Of course, we'd have to hire him as a consultant to both do the conversions and then maintain the systems... and that was the last time he ever walked into the building...

Yeah, I don't think I'd let him near my stuff, either. It's one thing to tweak an existing system. It's another to come up with that kind of "solution". Something about a mouse and an elephant gun come to mind.

Oh, and speaking of Netware, I'm still running an NW 6.5 server here at home. At some point I'm going to have to find another solution. I might be leaning towards FreeNAS, but that remains to be seen.

W3WN

02-21-2013, 01:11 PM

Which version? 2.11, Warp 3, or Warp 4?
< snip > One of the WARP versions. I'll have to go digging for it.

< snip >
Oh, and speaking of Netware, I'm still running an NW 6.5 server here at home. At some point I'm going to have to find another solution. I might be leaning towards FreeNAS, but that remains to be seen.I had an old P90 server running NW 4.11 at the old QTH for several years. I still have those disks, and a DVD for NW 5, around somewhere. But, at this point, why bother?

I thought I read somewhere that Netware was, or was supposed to, still exist, as an available service on one of Novell's SUSE implementations. But as a practical matter, when I'm ready to set up a server at home again (and it won't be long), I just don't see any point to running NW again.

KJ3N

02-21-2013, 02:55 PM

I had an old P90 server running NW 4.11 at the old QTH for several years. I still have those disks, and a DVD for NW 5, around somewhere. But, at this point, why bother?

Yep. Been there, done that. I've been through NW versions 3.12, 4.11, 5.1, and now 6.5. I think NW 6.5 was kind of during the transitional phase from pure NW to SUSE. I haven't kept up with what happened after that.

I thought I read somewhere that Netware was, or was supposed to, still exist, as an available service on one of Novell's SUSE implementations. But as a practical matter, when I'm ready to set up a server at home again (and it won't be long), I just don't see any point to running NW again.

Old habits die hard for me and I'm of the mindset that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I never really had any issues with Netware. The thing just seemed to go on and on for ever. Other than hardware changes, or adding additional disks, it just kept on humming. Also, it was pretty agnostic about what the workstation OS was, and I could count on OS/2 being able to play in an NW environment. That was a big factor for me for close to 15 years.

Now that I'm down to Win 7 and (possibly, we'll have to see) Linux, it may be time to re-evaluate the server environment. I only need file storage at this point and I can probably fill that need with FreeNAS.

The only problem I see right now with changing things, is that I've got roughly 1.3TB of data that I have to backup from the NW server, and then transfer all that to the FreeNAS device. I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to do that, given that I really don't have the money for a tape system that could backup that much data.

W3WN

02-21-2013, 06:07 PM

If I still had a NW server running, that'd be one thing. To try and resurrect one now... nah.

At some point, I need to pick up a small rack. I have an old 1U Compaq server sitting here, and I'll just put Ubuntu on it, when the time comes. If I fire it up -- it requires Ultra Wide SCSI drives, and has a built in RAID controller, which is nice, but gives me some other things to worry about.

KJ3N

02-21-2013, 06:54 PM

At some point, I need to pick up a small rack. I have an old 1U Compaq server sitting here, and I'll just put Ubuntu on it, when the time comes. If I fire it up -- it requires Ultra Wide SCSI drives, and has a built in RAID controller, which is nice, but gives me some other things to worry about.

One of those worries being the price and availability of UW SCSI drives.

I would think it would make more sense to build a new box with SATA drives.

W3WN

02-21-2013, 09:10 PM

One of those worries being the price and availability of UW SCSI drives.

I would think it would make more sense to build a new box with SATA drives.Exactly.

However, I'm a scavenger. No spare shekels right now to buy new computer gear. Have to make do with what I can pick up on the used market.

N1LAF

03-16-2013, 07:19 PM

I am running Linux Mint 14 on this netbook, and now starting to use this more and more. I do prefer this over the Ubuntu flavor, and I just discovered the Software Manager, which takes care of the installs nicely. I am not pestered with all kinds of updates that failed, but that may be due to the VMware interface. So, software installs are going well, I am finding everything, it is user friendly, and most of the software is competent for general use.

May I add... stable? Not a single hiccup or crash, and no warnings, problems, etc. Microsoft can learn something from Linux developers, but they won't listen... just look at and laugh at what they did to Windows 8.